Exposure: good for the goose...

[Silly_Girl]

Read up. I did. Google it.

 

Google what? I know it matters little who divorces who on the paperwork, what do you recommend I look up?

[MissBee]

Why would you need to be forced to tell the truth? Why would you want to continue gaslighting your spouse?

 

Why would you need everything exposed to get you to "see the light"? Were you not aware of the consequences to your actions?

 

Again, my post was to show that it can have the opposite effect as well. It is a power play to get others to help influence an action/decision. Call it what you want but that is what it is.

 

I believe it to be shaming, to get the truth, to get a decision, to influence an action. It is using intended or perceived negative reinforcement (the disapproval of others) to help influence the wayward individual to exhibit certain behaviors.

 

 

I have to agree.

 

The motives that it is said to be used for...I wouldn't do that. Likewise in the case of the OW/OM trying to use it, as findingnemo said, to stop them from resuming the A speaks to that same inability to control one's own actions so needing other people to curtail them for you.

 

I would tell close family and friends...only because I want personal support, not to make sure he stops doing it or makes a choice. I don't need him to make a choice...I can make a choice myself. If my husband is having an affair and I find out...a few things can happen, he is either going to be penitent and try stop or he's going to pretend to be penitent and pretend to stop or he's going to run off and be with the OW. None of these curtail my freedom to choose what I'm going to do in light of the info.

 

I don't plan for any aspect of my marriage, save for the wedding, to be for public consumption, likewise telling all and sundry about our dirty laundry is not my style. If I were angry and being vindictive (which is very possible) I'd most likely not care to protect his image and admit why I'm leaving....but again, telling everyone so he chooses or ends the A or whatnot wouldn't be what I'm thinking about. I would not put on a false face of happiness, and my dearest people would know....but I would be very careful about exposing it far and wide. Especially too, as my mom pointed out, that if you do decide to reconcile, if you've told all and sundry....unless you're also updating those same people you told about the counseling or your reconciliation....you will probably end up looking bad, they will also have a tarnished view of your spouse, and wonder how come you're still together after all that. So to me, in telling all about the affair, if you decide to reconcile, you need to also back track and tell them how the reconciliation is going. I personally would tread carefully about that and when I saw that advice...it did not resonate with me.

[jwi71]

That does not change my argument that using that tactic is a form of shaming. It is not a gun to the head and it is not forcing anything which is why it may not always have the desired effect, whether that be the WS make a decision, end the affair, etc.

 

Not shaming at all - at least as you paint it.

 

Would you be upset if your spouse told everyone of an award or promotion earned at work? Of course not. So, its not the ACT of telling its WHAT'S being told. No doubt you can figure out the rest of why telling of an A is shameful to the WS (and likely the OW/OM).

 

Perhaps the reason the BS tells all is the BS wants to circle the wagons. To build a support system - and how does one do that if one DOESN'T share the cause for needing the support in the first place? Perhaps the BS needs friends of the M to step up and help the M survive. Isn't that what friends are for? Isn't that what family is for?

 

You are want to equate exposure with manipulation and shaming and a power play. Its not. Its called reaching out and gather friends and family to support not only the BS but the M as well.

 

We can only control ourselves so the decisions need to be ours to make, The BS needs to do what is right for them. I do not think resorting to shaming is the way to go but then I have always been of the mind set you want to "expose light" then you immediately move to seperation/divorce, institute the changes for that and show the WS exactly what divorce is going to look like for them.

 

So very true. We can only control ourselves.

 

However, your bit about "showing them what D is going to look like" also sounds like manipulation. You are going to show the WS it will be so bad that they stay to avoid the pain(?) or loss(?). How is that any less manipulative than "shaming" by going public? The only difference I can see is the WS maintains the secrecy of the A.

 

Why SHOULD A's be secret? What's so special that is must not see the light of day? And from whom's perspective?

[MissBee]

Not shaming at all - at least as you paint it.

 

Would you be upset if your spouse told everyone of an award or promotion earned at work? Of course not. So, its not the ACT of telling its WHAT'S being told. No doubt you can figure out the rest of why telling of an A is shameful to the WS (and likely the OW/OM).

 

Perhaps the reason the BS tells all is the BS wants to circle the wagons. To build a support system - and how does one do that if one DOESN'T share the cause for needing the support in the first place? Perhaps the BS needs friends of the M to step up and help the M survive. Isn't that what friends are for? Isn't that what family is for?

 

You are want to equate exposure with manipulation and shaming and a power play. Its not. Its called reaching out and gather friends and family to support not only the BS but the M as well.

 

 

 

So very true. We can only control ourselves.

However, your bit about "showing them what D is going to look like" also sounds like manipulation. You are going to show the WS it will be so bad that they stay to avoid the pain(?) or loss(?). How is that any less manipulative than "shaming" by going public? The only difference I can see is the WS maintains the secrecy of the A.

 

Why SHOULD A's be secret? What's so special that is must not see the light of day? And from whom's perspective?

 

I don't think it's a matter of should...but what is...an affair is a secret relationship that can and often does undermine a marriage.

 

For me...I am comparing it to some other disreputable thing my husband can do...abusing alcohol, gambling away our kid's college funds, something else that's horrible...and in all such cases I'd tell a few people to gain support and advice, although I am a major believer in professional counseling and would also go that route versus telling everyone far and wide...some who may have nothing objective or sensible to contribute to my dilemma besides judgment. I don't think that it is a guarantee or always in proper order to broadcast your dirty laundry to everyone...it is not about protecting the person doing the bad thing and making them special...it's about thinking with your head and not your feelings. We're all humans and often when someone hurts us our response is to do it back and I do believe and admit for myself, that some of that telling everyone is a way to hurt that person and is not in a spirit of fixing anything.

 

One has to be honest and sensible about who they're telling and for what end and if telling everyone will achieve what they think it will. This entire argument is framed in such a way that it's obvious that most of it deals with not protecting the WS, not making them feel like they can get away with it and an overall sense that not telling equates to condoning their behavior or them not having consequences and not really a holistic picture of, will this really benefit me, my kids, my life? We all sometimes go overboard with punishing another...but sometimes we end up hurting ourselves more too. So I would definitely tread carefully before I decided to broadcast any marital or familial indiscretion.

 

I am not saying one should protect the wrong doer and put on a front...I am saying that one should be strategic and think of what will serve a better good and I know in some cases the "go tell it on the mountain, over the hills and everywhere..." approach may be more detrimental than positive. I can't help thinking of public figures who would only wish that their marital problems could have been kept under-wraps and not for the world to see and judge, esp if they chose to reconcile. It would be interesting to hear what famous BS's have to say about this type of telling everyone, as their cases are the most literal and extreme of that tactic. I would venture to say that, many such people do not reconcile, and one factor may be the fact that because everyone knows, even if it could be worked out, that humiliation, judgment and 2 cents from everyone makes them less likely to try to work through it.

Edited October 26, 2011 by MissBee

[jwi71]

I don't think it's a matter of should...but what is...an affair is a secret relationship that can and often does undermine a marriage.

 

Perhaps we have crossed lines somehow.

I was referring to why should an A remain secret after the WS knows - why SHOULDN'T the WS tell others? I can see no good reason, for the WS that is, to keep it secret.

 

I don't think that it is a guarantee or always in proper order to broadcast your dirty laundry to everyone...it is not about protecting the person doing the bad thing and making them special...it's about thinking with your head and not your feelings

 

I do not recall ANYONE posting that every person met should be told - I would agree that would make for an awkward moment at the Starbucks drive through window.

 

Starbucks guy (with soul patch) : Here's your cappuccino and that'll be 14.43

BS: My H is boffing his secretary...keep the change.

 

We're all humans and often when someone hurts us our response is to do it back and I do believe and admit for myself, that some of that telling everyone is a way to hurt that person and is not in a spirit of fixing anything.

 

See the above.

 

 

One has to be honest and sensible about who they're telling and for what end and if telling everyone will achieve what they think it will. This entire argument is framed in such a way that it's obvious that most of it deals with not protecting the WS, not making them feel like they can get away with it and an overall sense that not telling equates to condoning their behavior or them not having consequences and not really a holistic picture of, will this really benefit me, my kids, my life?

 

Im sorry...but huh?

 

Why cant the WS tell again?

 

And lets not go overboard with telling "the world"...lets employ a bit more intellectual honesty here.

 

Why does the OW/OM or the WS INSIST on secrecy?

 

We all sometimes go overboard with punishing another...but sometimes we end up hurting ourselves more too. So I would definitely tread carefully before I decided to broadcast any marital or familial indiscretion.

 

How is telling others punishing?

 

I am not saying one should protect the wrong doer and put on a front...I am saying that one should be strategic and think of what will serve a better good and I know in some cases the "go tell it on the mountain, over the hills and everywhere..." approach may be more detrimental than positive. I can't help thinking of public figures who would only wish that their marital problems could have been kept under-wraps and not for the world to see and judge, esp if they chose to reconcile. It would be interesting to hear what famous BS's have to say about this type of telling everyone, as their cases are the most literal and extreme of that tactic. I would venture to say that, many such people do not reconcile, and one factor may be the fact that because everyone knows, even if it could be worked out, that humiliation, judgment and 2 cents from everyone makes them less likely to try to work through it.

 

You mean the brought upon themselves humiliation and judgement? (couldn't resist)

 

Maybe I'm just dense but I am failing to see how telling others is punishment.

How did telling others to form a support system morph into tell the world resulting in undo(?) humiliation and judgement - which might prove detrimental to reconciliation - whose cause we shall sweep under the rug (hey, i'm sensing a pattern)

 

Why must the A remain secret again?

[NoIDidn't]

Actually not entirely true. "At will" does not have quite the open ended ability that many believe it to. Title VII limits some of the areas that you cannot discriminate in which does include age as well as race, color, religion, national origin, and sex. Some states, CA, WV, DC, etc have broaden that gap as well to include other protected groups like sexual orientation, etc.

 

Age discrimination is a very prevalent and successfully won lawsuits against employers in regards to it. One does not have to show a pattern of behavior to lose. The EEOC has brought many suits against companies based on one case against them. The most recent group that, though isn't protected under Title VII yet, weight, is being speerheaded by the EEOC and most likely will be added in the coming years. Right now it can fall under ADA rights and there are pending lawsuits now with the EEOC in regards to possible weight discrimination.

 

At will means, yes you can terminate employment but that does not mean that you have terminated fairly and does not protect a company from government fines, investigation, lawsuits, etc. A smart employer does not use that as a catch all to run amuck but limits their terminations to performance based reasons and show they have done their due diligence and termination is the last resort.

 

In regards to the Red Cross firing, it was mainly due to him using company funds/trips to visit his AP disguised as company business so a misappropriation of funds.

 

Few companies, even with no fraternization policies will terminate for affairs. This is especially true of those with no fraternization policies.

 

There have actually been wrongful termination lawsuits because of terminations for affairs as a breach of personal privacy, discrimination of marital status, etc. Affairs are a morality issue and not something that most companies feel then need to address; at least no more than dating in general.

 

Most cases, single or marital dating, that involves supervisor/subordinate dating, will result in termination as it is ripe for possible sexual harassment issues or morale concerns. Outside of it, most companies will not touch it.

 

Having an affair on the job is not an EEOC protected activity. At Will means an employer can fire you for the things that aren't protected by law. Sure, you can sue for wrongful termination if you want, but not that many people are so entitled and full of themselves to actually do this.

 

I do agree, that most companies won't touch it if it could lead to a possible sexual harassment case. But they have many other options available to them to get around that issue if they just want to remove the offenders quietly.

[NoIDidn't]

Exposure does NOT work the same for the OW as it does for the W. Its quite "foggy" to think that it could.

 

Funny story (funny to most people that actually know these people):

 

MM cheats on his W all the time. Everyone knows, except her (it seems, I think she knows). He starts sleeping with two cousins. Neither knows that he's sleeping with the other until one gets pregnant and tells the other by whom. Feeling and angry and "betrayed", the not-pregnant-OW-cousin tells EVERYONE that would listen that her cousin was pregnant by this MM. Not-pregnant-OW figured it would end the other A AND the M in one fell swoop! Didn't happen. It ended both affairs, the marriage kept going....and of course, new affairs with more discreet OWs followed.

 

Not-pregnant-OW wasn't done though. Rekindled the A and became pregnant as well. This time she decided against exposure figuring that not exposing would get her what she wanted. What ended the affair this time? The pregnancy. MM said he had too many children.

 

True story. SMH

 

My point, exposing often doesn't work for an OW - even when she's pregnant. And, while some posters can't bring themselves to admit it, I can ....most of these MM DON'T WANT to leave. They want to stay married. Its not "the marriage isn't bad enough to leave" or whatever else people bring themselves to believe. They just never had an intention of leaving their Ws. Period.

 

Exposure is not a good idea for the OW. It will only bring her further heartache when she ultimately doesn't get what she wants. You can't force someone to end their marriage if they don't want to.

[MissBee]

Perhaps we have crossed lines somehow.

I was referring to why should an A remain secret after the WS knows - why SHOULDN'T the WS tell others? I can see no good reason, for the WS that is, to keep it secret.

 

 

 

I do not recall ANYONE posting that every person met should be told - I would agree that would make for an awkward moment at the Starbucks drive through window.

 

Starbucks guy (with soul patch) : Here's your cappuccino and that'll be 14.43

BS: My H is boffing his secretary...keep the change.

 

 

 

See the above.

 

 

 

 

Im sorry...but huh?

 

Why cant the WS tell again?

 

And lets not go overboard with telling "the world"...lets employ a bit more intellectual honesty here.

 

Why does the OW/OM or the WS INSIST on secrecy?

 

 

 

How is telling others punishing?

 

 

 

You mean the brought upon themselves humiliation and judgement? (couldn't resist)

 

Maybe I'm just dense but I am failing to see how telling others is punishment.

How did telling others to form a support system morph into tell the world resulting in undo(?) humiliation and judgement - which might prove detrimental to reconciliation - whose cause we shall sweep under the rug (hey, i'm sensing a pattern)

 

Why must the A remain secret again?

 

I am posting from the perspective of if I were a BS...so I'm not speaking to the motives of the WS/OP for maintaining secrecy. I am imagining how I'd handle my business if I were to be put in that position as a BS.I was also responding to the idea that telling is about forcing this person to make a choice to end the A and for me, that would not be my motive to do so.

 

I also stated that there is no need to keep it a secret per se, but exposing it to everyone (and I clearly didn't mean going up to strangers in the streets and telling them ...but all your family members, all their family members, employers and others that other people have mentioned in this thread) may not always be a good idea. I did say I'd tell my bestfriends and probably my sister and mom to gain support...telling my husband's employer will not help me, how is that going to support me? Telling his family probably won't support me either. Hence, I brought up...some of the telling seems to be more about humiliating that person and punishing them versus actually helping yourself or the situation.

 

Also let's be real...if we want to be honest, hurt makes people vindictive. Hurt makes me vindictive. Hurt makes you lose your good sense and engage in knee-jerk behavior...sometimes that knee-jerk behavior appears to be warranted because one was hurt...but in the end, it ends up being an embarrassment not only to the person who hurt you...but to yourself. Most of us have had some experience with something like that. It is not far-fetched that some people go around telling everyone (employers, probably even random Starbucks people) to stick it to their spouse...and they feel justified. But does it help? No.

 

Again: my point is a BS exposing their spouses affair should consider to whom and for what end...I was not advocating secrecy neither indiscriminate telling...but applying good sense and being honest with one's self about it. I know how and why I would expose it and to whom and for what reasons and can think realistically about how it would benefit me or not....I think anyone exposing should have a realistic grasp of where they plan to go with the exposure and how it may or may not help whatever end they are trying to achieve. If one feels like telling the church, the book club, your family, his whole family, the kids etc is helpful and will be for the good, then that's fine. If one also decides that they'd like to tell their bestfriend, their mom and their therapist only for the best, that's fine too. All I am advocating for is applying good sense and being thoughtful about what you're going to do and how it may or may not help whatever your purpose is.

Edited October 27, 2011 by MissBee

[jwi71]

I am posting from the perspective of if I were a BS...so I'm not speaking to the motives of the WS/OP for maintaining secrecy. I am imagining how I'd handle my business if I were to be put in that position as a BS.I was also responding to the idea that telling is about forcing this person to make a choice to end the A and for me, that would not be my motive to do so.

 

Ok, I get it now - kinda.

As a BS, I told "everyone" (no, not everyone everyone) to circle the wagons and build support around me. My xWW was NOT thrilled at this.

 

I touched on it in my first post in this thread but one's perspective is VERY important here. I can almost promise you that a WS or OW/OM will support not telling and the BS will support telling outside parties. I believe the reason is obvious: The "guilty parties have engaged in behavior that is socially unacceptable and they prefer to keep it hidden. Forever.

 

Note: This doesn't make them bad per se.

 

I also stated that there is no need to keep it a secret per se, but exposing it to everyone (and I clearly didn't mean going up to strangers in the streets and telling them ...but all your family members, all their family members, employers and others that other people have mentioned in this thread) may not always be a good idea.

 

True, there is no single answer. If you ever become a BS I'm sure the way you react and process events is different from everyone else. You would limit who you tell - I did not. One is no better than the other just different.

 

I did say I'd tell my bestfriends and probably my sister and mom to gain support...telling my husband's employer will not help me, how is that going to support me?

 

Here are a few ways telling employers can help:

1) Time off to handle an emotionally charged home situation.

2) Access to...what are they called in HR...life counselors(?) (to help with the stress and drama at home...my company provides these as a benefit...you know, the confidential counselors...crap, what are they called again)

3) Providing your boss with why your performance just fell off the map and you look like hell.

4) Another support person. I told my boss and my xWW's boss and BOTH were just FANTASTIC at working with us.

 

Telling his family probably won't support me either. Hence, I brought up...some of the telling seems to be more about humiliating that person and punishing them versus actually helping yourself or the situation.

 

As a parent, I get quite cross with my children when they screw up.

My parents get cross with me when I screw up NOW - I'm 40!

Again, you'd be surprised at how supportive they can be - especially if they are friends to the M.

 

Also let's be real...if we want to be honest, hurt makes people vindictive. Hurt makes me vindictive. Hurt makes you lose your good sense and engage in knee-jerk behavior...sometimes that knee-jerk behavior appears to be warranted because one was hurt...but in the end, it ends up being an embarrassment not only to the person who hurt you...but to yourself. Most of us have had some experience with something like that. It is not far-fetched that some people go around telling everyone (employers, probably even random Starbucks people) to stick it to their spouse...and they feel justified. But does it help? No

.

 

Hurt makes people angry and in such a state they lash out. Sure they do.

And maybe the BS tells everyone - even the Starbucks guy. So what? Are WS so weak that the opinion of a stranger affects them so? And how would the WS know that the guy at Starbucks knows anyway?

 

Forgive me, but to claim that the Starbucks guy knows and THAT hurts the WS SO much he/she leaves is well nuts. That the WS is SO offended that others know of their actions - its too much to bear and the M crumbles - serious?

 

Again: my point is a BS exposing their spouses affair should consider to whom and for what end...I was not advocating secrecy neither indiscriminate telling...but applying good sense and being honest with one's self about it. I know how and why I would expose it and to whom and for what reasons and can think realistically about how it would benefit me or not....I think anyone exposing should have a realistic grasp of where they plan to go with the exposure and how it may or may not help whatever end they are trying to achieve. If one feels like telling the church, the book club, your family, his whole family, the kids etc is helpful and will be for the good, then that's fine. If one also decides that they'd like to tell their bestfriend, their mom and their therapist only for the best, that's fine too. All I am advocating for is applying good sense and being thoughtful about what you're going to do and how it may or may not help whatever your purpose is.

 

I agree. The BS is free to tell whomever they choose. Even the Starbucks guy.

[that_gal]

Exposure is a wonderful tool to end a spouses affair. Rarely do affairs survive the light of day. The shame and humiliation is incredible. I know. My wife told everyone. And I had confessed. Sent me into a tailspin.

 

Oh, how right you are! I'm still in that stage of not facing everyone, because I have no idea who my H told. It did put a quick halt on the Affair too. All of the sudden my world crashed down, hard. Its a new kind of lonely....no one could have prepared me for this kind of 'lonely'

[Spark1111]

Why would you need to be forced to tell the truth? Why would you want to continue gaslighting your spouse?

 

Why would you need everything exposed to get you to "see the light"? Were you not aware of the consequences to your actions?

 

Again, my post was to show that it can have the opposite effect as well. It is a power play to get others to help influence an action/decision. Call it what you want but that is what it is.

 

I believe it to be shaming, to get the truth, to get a decision, to influence an action. It is using intended or perceived negative reinforcement (the disapproval of others) to help influence the wayward individual to exhibit certain behaviors.

 

If telling the truth of someone's actions causes them to feel ashamed, didn't they then know those same actions to be wrong?

 

Why else feel shame?

 

As for telling others, I had absolutely no desire to shame or control or manipulate an outcome.

 

I was the victim of his lies and betrayal, devastated and out of my mind with pain, and I was convinced we were divorcing after I read their love letters to each other.

 

I had no shame or guilt for my actions. Why did I have to keep their secret?

 

In addition to vomiting, crying, not sleeping, talking to attorneys and trying to sort out the TRUTH of my unbelievable situation and sharing it with trusted friends and family members because I needed support; I now am supposed to be manipulating an outcome????

 

You give BSs waaaay too much credit; especially given our emotional state following DDay!

[donnamaybe]

Bottom line, if a cheater has "shame" over the fact of their cheating being known, then perhaps they should have thought about that before the lying and sneaking around began. I have never heard of anyone being "shamed" for ending their M in an honest, respectful manner. Perhaps that is just too much to expect out of some folks.

[MissBee]

Ok, I get it now - kinda.

As a BS, I told "everyone" (no, not everyone everyone) to circle the wagons and build support around me. My xWW was NOT thrilled at this.

 

I touched on it in my first post in this thread but one's perspective is VERY important here. I can almost promise you that a WS or OW/OM will support not telling and the BS will support telling outside parties. I believe the reason is obvious: The "guilty parties have engaged in behavior that is socially unacceptable and they prefer to keep it hidden. Forever.

 

Note: This doesn't make them bad per se.

 

 

 

True, there is no single answer. If you ever become a BS I'm sure the way you react and process events is different from everyone else. You would limit who you tell - I did not. One is no better than the other just different.

 

 

 

Here are a few ways telling employers can help:

1) Time off to handle an emotionally charged home situation.

2) Access to...what are they called in HR...life counselors(?) (to help with the stress and drama at home...my company provides these as a benefit...you know, the confidential counselors...crap, what are they called again)

3) Providing your boss with why your performance just fell off the map and you look like hell.

4) Another support person. I told my boss and my xWW's boss and BOTH were just FANTASTIC at working with us.

 

 

 

As a parent, I get quite cross with my children when they screw up.

My parents get cross with me when I screw up NOW - I'm 40!

Again, you'd be surprised at how supportive they can be - especially if they are friends to the M.

 

.

 

Hurt makes people angry and in such a state they lash out. Sure they do.

And maybe the BS tells everyone - even the Starbucks guy. So what? Are WS so weak that the opinion of a stranger affects them so? And how would the WS know that the guy at Starbucks knows anyway?

 

Forgive me, but to claim that the Starbucks guy knows and THAT hurts the WS SO much he/she leaves is well nuts. That the WS is SO offended that others know of their actions - its too much to bear and the M crumbles - serious?

 

 

 

I agree. The BS is free to tell whomever they choose. Even the Starbucks guy.

 

 

JW again...you are still coming from this point of view that these things are done to protect and shield the WS in some way...when my concern is for myself In terms of, if I am going to stick it to my WS...I need to do things that aren't going to potentially look bad on me. So me telling the Starbucks man my husband is having an affair, for example, is not avoided because my husband is going to be ashamed (although I imagine someone doing that would be only doing it to shame that person) but because I don't want my Starbucks guy to look at me like some over-sharing, possibly unhinged, scorned woman. His image is ruined because of him...my image is not going to be ruined because of him too. That's what I'm saying with regards to the entire issue actually....you keep bringing it back to how the WS feels and whether or not they are offended yet that was never my concern, my concern is how certain actions against the WS can backfire on you (or me in my hypothetical BS scenario). I have a lot of pride....I am aware of this, for better or for worse, so I am coming at it from that angle.

 

My personality in general is that I don't mix business with my private life and I keep few people close as confidantes...so maybe it is in that spirit that telling my boss that my husband had an affair or telling his boss seems ludicrous to me. I'd simply tell them I am having a family emergency or some such but I do not think I'd tell her/him about the affair itself...and my husband's boss...that is even less likely something I'd do, especially if I've never spoken to this person a day in my life, to look them up to announce his affair would probably have me looking bad and not necessarily him. I see no point in that for myself personally. I am not married now so I have no idea of what my future in laws will be like and what relationship I'll have with them...but I know my own family's dynamic and already know who I'd tell and not tell.

 

If I do not have forgiveness in mind...I may tell everyone lol. But also, if we have kids, I may be careful about that. If I do plan to forgive....my telling everyone would be less likely. But in both cases, my closest confidantes who are my default support system for everything in life would know about it and I would not go around telling anyone else until I've worked out what is best to do.....

 

My experience with my ex taught me a lot in that regard....the things he did were appalling and they were factual and I felt no need to hide what he did and felt I should tell anyone who asked why we broke up exactly what happened and all his indiscretions... but I realized broadcasting it, while vindicating in one sense and while I felt I did nothing wrong so it didn't matter, actually became less useful and bit me in the a$$ a bit later on, so I have kind of had experience with that and realize that discretion goes a long way. With discretion you can always "add more" later...whereas without, it's a lot harder to pull back and clean up a mess that has been unleashed.

[Elizabeth Southerns]

Very true where I live also. In the US, you cannot discriminate in your hiring or firing practices due to three things: race, gender or religion.

 

There is a lot more to the planet than the USA. The laws of a single country are far from universal.

[findingnemo]

Grrr...just lost an entire essay.

 

I wanted to simplify this debate by stating a primary objective of Exposure and then perhaps the benefits that an AP could receive as a result.

 

The goal of Exposure of an A to friends, family and BS(s) by an AP is, at the minimum, to come out of a life of lies and break the secret nature of the relationship with the MP.

 

The benefits that can result from this are:

 

1. The MP would be forced to make a choice whatever this is.

2. The BS is made aware of the situation and can also make a choice.

3. The AP gains a support system.

4. The MP is forced to deal with his/her life and seek a resolution.

 

Does this make sense to you? Can Exposure then be a suggested tool for APs who want to end As for whatever reason?

 

ETA: Trying to see if there is a consensus on whether it is better to live in truth by telling (regardless of pain it causes) or keeping the secret.

 

 

 

jw, I read your responses earlier but think you misunderstood me. If not, please explain further. You seem to be be agreeing with me on most points although I'm not sure whether you're referring to me personally or a general "you".

Edited October 27, 2011 by findingnemo
Articulate main point

[Owl]

ETA: Trying to see if there is a consensus on whether it is better to live in truth by telling (regardless of pain it causes) or keeping the secret.

 

Doubt you'll EVER find a consensus on this here on LS.

 

You'll find that the vast majority of those that are proponents of exposure are the ones who benefitted the most from it...BS's predominately.

 

The majority of those who are against it tend to be the ones who would/would have potentially suffered the most from it...former OM/OW or MM/MW, who would have been "exposed" as part of the process.

 

This is just one of those things you'll not likely see much agreement between groups on.

[Silly_Girl]

Doubt you'll EVER find a consensus on this here on LS.

 

You'll find that the vast majority of those that are proponents of exposure are the ones who benefitted the most from it...BS's predominately.

 

The majority of those who are against it tend to be the ones who would/would have potentially suffered the most from it...former OM/OW or MM/MW, who would have been "exposed" as part of the process.

 

This is just one of those things you'll not likely see much agreement between groups on.

 

I'm fundamentally pro-truth. Have a real reliance on it in many areas of my life, not just romantic relationships. It meant I was a rubbish OW in many ways. I couldn't understand the need or desire to keep things secret. It was definitely unnecessary.

[Spark1111]

I'm fundamentally pro-truth. Have a real reliance on it in many areas of my life, not just romantic relationships. It meant I was a rubbish OW in many ways. I couldn't understand the need or desire to keep things secret. It was definitely unnecessary.

 

And I will say it again, SG: You are not the norm on LS or IRL, IMO. too!

 

Could it be, on some very deep level, many an OW KNOW he is not leaving; that the wife is not the nightmare she is portrayed to be; that revealing the truth will burst the bubble?

 

I wonder.....

 

But FN, if resolving a situation without end and waaay too many excuses by truth telling, yes, I think it definitely could free the AP from the secrets

[donnamaybe]

There is a lot more to the planet than the USA. The laws of a single country are far from universal.

Yes, in some countries the law is that it's okay to mutilate a woman's genitalia. So?

 

In terms of what was being discussed IN THIS THREAD, one cannot be prosecuted for talking about a factual situation, unless they themselves are outing their own crime in doing so. Telling the truth, in and of itself, is not a crime.

[Elizabeth Southerns]

Yes, in some countries the law is that it's okay to mutilate a woman's genitalia. So?

 

That's spurious.

 

In terms of what was being discussed IN THIS THREAD, one cannot be prosecuted for talking about a factual situation, unless they themselves are outing their own crime in doing so. Telling the truth, in and of itself, is not a crime.

 

I'd already responded to that:

 

Wherever did I claim that?

 

Though it does seem to happen in the US - ergo, Bradley Manning. Thomas Drake. David Kernell. Teresa Chambers.

 

We can go round and round the mulberry bush all year, but I'd rather get back to the point of the thread instead.

 

in simple terms, what are the benefits to an other man.women "coming out' ( so to speak? what are the drawbacks?

 

Benefits:

 

The OW gets the support of her family and friends, his family and friends, and their visibility as a couple is affirmed and endorsed socially by friends and family. They get seen as "the primary couple" since others can see by their genuine love, respect and affection for one another that it is a healthy R, and not simply an economic or social convenience, as is the M.

 

The OW becomes included in more and more aspects of the MM's life, and gets to see him in a greater variety of contexts and situations - and he her - so that they can make a more fully informed decision about how suited they are to a long-term, or even permanent, R.

 

The MM has more people who are better informed to turn to for advice, since they know the OW and can advise him on longer-term prospects of the R, and whether or not she might be a better match than the BW. The MM also has a broader support base to draw on when seeking support or advice on how to handle the BW, or any other aspect of being in two simultaneous Rs since they know the full picture.

 

Should the A end, the OW can mourn openly since the R is acknowledged and socially endorsed. Support from friends and family can more readily be provided since they are better informed. The same holds for the MM.

 

Drawbacks:

 

If they live in Deliveranceville, they may be subject to disapproval or judgment from narrow-minded people.

 

Busybodies with malicious intent might tell the BW.

 

The BW might resent the public humiliation of "her" H being socially accepted as the partner of another woman, and may act up.

[donnamaybe]

Wherever did I claim that?

 

Though it does seem to happen in the US - ergo, Bradley Manning. Thomas Drake. David Kernell. Teresa Chambers.

By the way, this thread is NOT about people passing classified information, nor is it about e-mail hackers. I wasn't aware that someone's A was classified information.

[donnamaybe]

Drawbacks:

 

If they live in Deliveranceville, they may be subject to disapproval or judgment from narrow-minded people.

 

Busybodies with malicious intent might tell the BW.

 

The BW might resent the public humiliation of "her" H being socially accepted as the partner of another woman, and may act up.

Look around this site. There are a HOST of drawbacks that are conspicuously missing from the above list. Not the least of which is the A ending rather unceremoniously. Of course, that may or may not be a drawback for the OW/OM, depending on their particular viewpoint.

[Elizabeth Southerns]

Look around this site. There are a HOST of drawbacks that are conspicuously missing from the above list. Not the least of which is the A ending rather unceremoniously. Of course, that may or may not be a drawback for the OW/OM, depending on their particular viewpoint.

 

Everyone is free to comment from their own experience, as we have both just done.

[Owl]

 

 

Drawbacks:

 

If they live in Deliveranceville, they may be subject to disapproval or judgment from narrow-minded people.

 

Busybodies with malicious intent might tell the BW.

 

The BW might resent the public humiliation of "her" H being socially accepted as the partner of another woman, and may act up.

 

Wow...we do indeed live in drastically different cultures/countries/worlds/universes.

 

Perhaps we should start using similar adjectives to describe cultures that are more accepting of infidelity as well?

 

Sorry...I don't care much for rude behavior...and while it would be equally simple for me to begin to describe your culture/country using similar venacular, I don't believe that doing so would accomplish much.

 

How about we try to remain polite instead?

[findingnemo]

ES, thanks for detailing the pros. I agree with you in the case where the AP and MP end up together.

 

Some more drawbacks:

 

1. The AP is seen as a home wrecker especially if the MP decides to stay in their M.

 

2. The MP suffers the wrath of the BS, their family and in-laws, their kids, their friends and possibly their workmates (it is very likely someone from the office will hear about the WW3 going on at home).

 

3. The AP is heartbroken because they learn that regardless of the proclamations of love, MP chose to stay in the M that was supposedly hell. In the APs mind, MP preferred hell to being with them ( rejection).

 

Granted, the negative consequences are painful for the AP. But given that this is likely to be the outcome any way, why not have it occur sooner than later? I still think that regardless of the outcome, the truth literally sets you free in this case.