Questions ABOUT non-believers

[tiki]

#1) Why do atheists find it okay to celebrate Easter or Christmas? I want opinions here. Don't give me this "commercialized" crap, if you don't believe, don't celebrate. I don't take off for Hanukkah. I'm not of that belief, so I don't celebrate!!!

 

#2) If an atheist parent has a dying child, why would they not pray for their childs recovery? Wouldn't it be something any decent person would do, to pray for your OWN child? ***Why would the *chance* of prayer working be passed up?*** <-- if it were your child, wouldn't you take that chance, that gamble?

 

Open for opinions here.

[tiki]

Sorry guys, I should have said "Questions ABOUT non believers" I want an open forum for everones opinions. Peace.

[bluechocolate]

Wouldn't it be something any decent person would do, to pray for your OWN child?

 

huh??? Are you saying that if someone doesn't believe in YOUR God they can't love their children as much you as you do? That people who don't pray are somehow indecent?

 

Why do atheists find it okay to celebrate Easter or Christmas?

 

The tradition of giving perhaps. Nevermind the fact that the end of the winter solstice was a pagan festival long before the arrival of Christ - precisely why the church placed it where it did in the calendar.

 

And bunny rabbits & eggs predate Christianity in the celebration of the arrival of spring. Do you include those things in your celebrating of Easter? Do you give such pagan symbols to your Christian children?

 

Anyway, what's the problem? Wouldn't it be grand to live in a country where everyone, regardless of religion, celebrates everyone else's religiously significant holidays?

[shamen]

I'm agnostic. I grew up Roman Catholic but no longer go to church or believe in that god... But I do believe in some sort of reincarnation.

 

Yes, I celebrate Christmas with my family and co-workers (those that are Christian) because that is what they do. I send out Hanukah cards to my Jewish friends and holiday cards to my Muslim friends, if it's around Ramadan. I like to be a part of other people's holidays, whatever they may be. It's always interesting to me sociologically; have you ever been to celebrate another holiday with a family of another faith? It's really cool.

 

Christmas with my family is special and always will be, whether or not I'm Christian is irrelevant. It's the holiday that they celebrate.

 

With my friends however, we don't celebrate any holidays really, except birthdays. It avoids the whole religious thing because none of us really are. TXsgiving is almost just as important to me to be with my family or friends, thought the thought of really celebrating the "Pilgrims with the Indians (Americans)" is quite ludicrous. It's just a time to be thankful for what we have together.

 

I do not celebrate Easter. Ew. To me, it's kind of gross. Even as a child, I thought it icky that Christ was on the cross in the church, even though I was a believer then.

[shamen]

Bluechocolate: good point bringing up the pagan holidays and symbols! I hadn't even thought to bring that up... But, he's right!

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by tikibrandy

#1) Why do atheists find it okay to celebrate Easter or Christmas? I want opinions here. Don't give me this "commercialized" crap, if you don't believe, don't celebrate. I don't take off for Hanukkah. I'm not of that belief, so I don't celebrate!!!

 

I'm agnostic, not athiest, but I'll tell you my view. If I get a paid day off from work, I'll take it! I don't know any agnostics or atheists who do celebrate religious holidays. Do you mean why participate in rituals involving the easterbunny, egg hunts, santa clause and christmas trees---its because NONE of those symbols are religious. Why shouldn't we have fun on that paid day off! why should our kids be left out of running around and picking up colored eggs to win a prize? Or unwrap a present on christmas morning? The common rituals in society that are linked to the various 'holy' days have nothing to do with religion or belief. An athiest is not going to sit in church on good friday between 11 and 1, they will be out playing golf, or watching a movie, or maybe still working, etc. Saying that you don't take off for Hanukka because you don't believe has nothing to do with what an atheist or agnositic does. You have a religion that you believe in. Jews do too and you are talking about the 'cross polinating' of religions there. I don't believe in a supreme being at all.

 

#2) If an atheist parent has a dying child, why would they not pray for their childs recovery? Wouldn't it be something any decent person would do, to pray for your OWN child? ***Why would the *chance* of prayer working be passed up?*** <-- if it were your child, wouldn't you take that chance, that gamble?

Open for opinions here.

 

Um, what gamble? What does decency have to do with it? Do you equate all agnostics or atheists with people who are indecent or immoral? Be careful here and educate yourself on what constitutes an atheist and an agnostic. If I were to pray for my child - to which god should I pray? I don't believe in any, so it wouldn't much matter. I rather like the statues of Horus so maybe I should pray to him?

[saintfrancis]

The story of a virgin that "miracluously" gave birth to an infant child (i.e. the story of "Jesus' birth") predates Christianity by many years -- hundreds perhaps, I'm not sure exactly how many. In any case, this was a pagan myth before it was appropriated by the Christian tradition and made into Christmas. Why don't we ask all you "good Christians" why you're celebrating a pagan holiday -- a holiday that was built upon pagan beliefs and isn't even of Christian origins????

 

You've really got some problems if you think that the only "decent parents" are Christians.

[dyermaker]

As sardonic as saintfrancis was, it's a definite point.

 

I'm a Catholic, who are, despite common belief, Christians. Christmas isn't Christ's birthday. It's a time where we flood our checkbook's with expenditure in order to exhchange sentiment around a tree that has never and will never be native to the area of Bethlehem. At the end of the year, people celebrate--that's just what they do. The entire reason that Christmas is the 25th of December is because the Early Church wanted to have the new pagan converts, who were fine being Christians but also wanted their feasts toward a plethora of Gods, to worship "GOD" instead of "gods", so they scheduled a Christ Birthday Bash over one of their same feasts--the same thing goes for Easter.

 

That's not to say we can't have a religious experience on Christmas. If you take Christmas and Easter as times to reflect on the Glory of Christ and his role on your life--fantastic, but realize that it's a fricken paid holiday, and it's so unbelievably commercialized that you're likely going to be distracted.

 

If you really want to connect with God, I wouldn't do it on a day that costs me so much money to partake in--it's too distracting.

[faux]

Originally posted by tikibrandy

#1) Why do atheists find it okay to celebrate Easter or Christmas? I want opinions here. Don't give me this "commercialized" crap, if you don't believe, don't celebrate. I don't take off for Hanukkah. I'm not of that belief, so I don't celebrate!!!

 

These holidays have evolved to really mean practically nothing to a great many people. You notice it, as you specifically questioned how people who do not go to mass, or believe in a God, can feel free to celebrate them. This is just how things are. People who do not celebrate a certain holiday still most likely get time off from school or work while that holiday is going on.

 

People can choose to celebrate whatever holiday they want to.

 

#2) If an atheist parent has a dying child, why would they not pray for their childs recovery? Wouldn't it be something any decent person would do, to pray for your OWN child? ***Why would the *chance* of prayer working be passed up?*** <-- if it were your child, wouldn't you take that chance, that gamble?

 

Open for opinions here.

 

Of course, they do pray. They hope that their child will come out fine, as anyone would. Hoping and praying go hand in hand. The only difference is that not everyone asks a God for help. The way that I see it: having hope and having faith in God can be the same thing. Praying is just as effective as hoping for the best in a bad situation.

 

I would have to say that if I did not believe in a God, I would not pray to one to "take a chance" or gamble. I would, however, hope for the best situation to come about.

[magda]

Originally posted by tikibrandy

#1) Why do atheists find it okay to celebrate Easter or Christmas? I want opinions here. Don't give me this "commercialized" crap, if you don't believe, don't celebrate. I don't take off for Hanukkah. I'm not of that belief, so I don't celebrate!!!

#1)Do they celebrate religiously? Don't worry, I won't give you any "commercialized crap" I'm keeping my stocking from Santa and my cadbury eggs, kthnx.

#2) If an atheist parent has a dying child, why would they not pray for their childs recovery? Wouldn't it be something any decent person would do, to pray for your OWN child? ***Why would the *chance* of prayer working be passed up?*** <-- if it were your child, wouldn't you take that chance, that gamble?

I don't know if you understand - see, athiests don't believe there is a god. They don't believe there is a *chance* the prayer will be heard because they don't believe there is anyone listening. That aside, there are many different ways to pray. You don't know what's going in anyone's heart anyway so don't assume. God has equal access to everybody and works within everyone.

 

Open for opinions here.

Yeah?

 

I'm a little concerned that you seem to think praying to God is the difference between a dead child and a healthy child. God acts according to his plan regardless of what you pray. Praying brings YOUR relationship to God closer and helps YOU.

My God, at least, does not play favorites to those who know "Him" differently than others. A pious Christian is just as likely to lose his wealth health and family as an athiest is.

As a Christian I have no idea why you are complaining about non-believers "celebrating" Christian holidays. The fact that these are recognized world-wide reinforces the story of Christ's death and birth - the backbone of Christian beliefs. That this day is recognized simply increases the chance that more people will be touched by the story and choose to find out what more Christianity has to offer them.

 

The nature of your questions really irks me. Christianity is not a club with a special shiny pink jacket only Christians should be able to wear.

[dyermaker]

Christianity is not a club with a special shiny pink jacket only Christians should be able to wear.

 

Tell that to these guys!

[magda]

Tell that to these guys!

*looks at bracelet* I don't think Jesus would do that.

*runs*

[dyermaker]

I know if Jesus were here, he wouldn't be a conservative

[moimeme]

I've already ordered my 'What Would Jesus Do' thong!

[dyermaker]

You should get the "What wouldn't Jesus Do" undergarment--it's crotchless.

[tiki]

Originally posted by magda My God, at least, does not play favorites to those who know "Him" differently than others.

 

 

And my God, however, DOES. That's what we call the difference between Heaven and Hell. My religion clearly states that you must know him to spend eternal life with him. Call it playing favorites, if that's what you wish.

 

I *DO* know what an atheist is. And no, I don't think it's a life or death difference for a child neccessarily (to receive prayer).

 

Thanks for your opinions however, this is why I posted here. You guys dont have to get all nasty or mean. You can be civil and respectful of someone elses religion/opinion. I just wanted a better understanding.

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by dyermaker

Tell that to these guys!

 

OMG! Gee, wish I'd known about the Vacation Bible Gun Camp before! LOLOLOL!!!!!

 

tikibrandy, you never answered my questions, or clarified your opinion on what constitutes an athiest/agnostic or how you think *they* are different from you in any way other than religious beliefs. I'm not asking you to defend yourself, but you asked a question and I gave my opinion and also asked for clarification from you. Please don't take it personally. You said you were open for opinions here.

 

I lost TWO children so I do have a real frame of reference. If I believed there were a god I would have certainly have prayed, and I don't love my children any less or any differently then the most devout christian parent. I would gladly have given my life in exchange for theirs.

 

I would like you to clarify your opinions based on the responses you got. I'm sincerely interested.

[morrigan]

As far as the second question, atheists can feel love, sorrow, and hope--things that come to the forefront when the person faces a severe illness or death of someone they care about. Religious faith can aid someone during bad times, it doesn't mean the lack of it in another person suddenly makes them devoid of strength or emotion.

 

A prayer can be selfless and for the good of another, on the other hand, how many people have "prayed" their enemy suffers or that they themselves win the lottery? Prayers can be as meaningful or meaningless as the ways people celebrate holidays.

[magda]

Originally posted by magda My God, at least, does not play favorites to those who know "Him" differently than others.

And my God, however, DOES. That's what we call the difference between Heaven and Hell. My religion clearly states that you must know him to spend eternal life with him. Call it playing favorites, if that's what you wish.

I was clearly talking about THIS life, not the next.

[shamen]

Tikibrandy, the main reason that I am agnostic and no longer Catholic (Christian) is because I do not believe that because one person believes in a different god that they shouldn't get to go to "heaven" or whatever good place comes next, if something even does come next.

 

Why does your religion get dibs on that? What about the Jews and the Muslims and the Buddhists and the Tsaoists and everbody else? They all believe in a "god" of some sort (or at least a higher state of being) and many of them are good people. Do they all go to hell? That's a pretty weird thought to me. That's what my religion taught me growing up and I just do not believe that. So I left the church and never once looked back in regret.

[dyermaker]

Shamen, your story is sad, but not uncommon. Way too many people are turned away by the condeming piety of people who are not only certain they are right (good), but certain everyone else is wrong (bad).

[shamen]

Dyermaker: I don't think that it is sad that I left. I'm perfectly happy being an agnostic! I bet most people who are, and that those who are atheists, are happy about it too. I'm curious as to how you can still be Catholic and feel this way? You seem to have lots of openness about your religious beliefs.

 

It makes me more sad, to be perfectly honest, that people think that that all those people go to hell.

 

Tikibrandy: Somehow I think that it's impossible for our backs not to get raised like a cat's when we discuss religion. I've been trying hard to stay as objective as possible. I hope that I did OK!

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by shamen

Dyermaker: I don't think that it is sad that I left. I'm perfectly happy being an agnostic! I bet most people who are, and that those who are atheists, are happy about it too. I'm curious as to how you can still be Catholic and feel this way? You seem to have lots of openness about your religious beliefs.

 

I think it's sad that people are leaving an institution that's inherently good, because people are driving them away. I know for certain that my beliefs are correct, I've reconciled them with God. However, I'm not willing to assert that anyone else's beliefs are incorrect. I've made my reconciliation by understanding my beliefs, and reflecting on them with said community. However, often times people reconcile their truth not by focusing on themselves, but by trying to DISprove everyone else, or condemning their beliefs--it makes them feel more righteous.

 

When Jesus came, he condemned the hypocrites most of all. He never answered questions, he led his followers to answer questions for themselves. I think everyone should have the freedom to answer their own questions, and not be so concerned with answering everyone else's. I'm glad I have my church to help me, even if their humanness bleeds through occaisional reflections of corruption. I'm sad that your experience with the church exposed you to too many people who don't know how to mind their own spiritual business--using canon as a weapon instead of a salve. I think it's a poor reflection on the church as a whole, and I think everyone can benefit from a community of people who help them see God--because I don't believe it's possible to know God without seeing him work through other people.

 

I meant in no way to say that being agnostic would make you unhappy, I just mean that it's sad you were exposed to that so negatively.

[shamen]

Dyermaker: Now if we could only get everyone who believes to get into your frame of mind (that not everyone else is incorrect even though they personally are correct at the same time; quite the philosopher, eh?), then we would solve what, 1/2 the world's problems? More than half?

 

Don't worry about the sad part, it's cool. The written word is always so much more open to interpretation than the spoken...

 

Tikibrandy: How about opening yourself up to the possibility that we're all right at the same time? That while you can believe that you are right, people with opposing views aren't necessarily incorrect?

 

Now what's that book that I read in Existentialism in college? (Yes, I'm a dork.) About Abraham believing at the same time that he was both going to not kill his son and kill his son at the same time. Seriously, this whole book is about believing two opposing ideas at once. Found it... Soren Kierkegaard's Fear and Trembling.

 

Oh, and "Stigmata." A movie about Catholicism and its lost teachings. Very curious. That the real church is within you...

[tiki]

Originally posted by HokeyReligions What constitutes an athiest/agnostic or how you think *they* are different from you in any way other than religious beliefs.

 

The difference is only religion based IMO. It's a lack of belief of a God, statue, higher being or an idol-type figure.

 

I will admit that I come here not to pretend to be wealthy in knowledge of religion, I know much of not a lot. However...I came here to get opinions on something that I have questions on. None of you are probably religious experts. I probably need to consult someone in my church. Everyone seems believe what they believe and be adamant that they are right.

 

I can NOW see the point of how or why an atheist would not pray. I think I couldn't fathom not having a God, or not believing. When it's something that you've known all your life, it's like knowing the sky is blue. It's all that I know. All that I refuse to know and refuse to question. So by you guys shedding some light on that matter, I think it really sunk in that they REALLY don't believe in a God. And if they did, they probably would be praying, huh? I do appreciate the non-harsh opinions that were given. This is how we learn of different cultures, religions and opinions.

 

On the other hand, being quite honest, I haven't seen a sufficient answer as to why a non-believer would celebrate the birth of Christ when they don't believe in any of such. I don't take off for celebrations outside of my religion just so that I can exchange some gifts or eat a meal with my fam....or just because it's a paid holiday. That seems, uh, convenient?

 

Anyway, that happens to be *my* opinion. Different people make the world go round. Lord knows if we were all the same....well, it'd be quite boring and redundant. To each their own. Peace.