Looking for Hope

[sp2007]

What a mess. Where do I start?

 

I’m a MW, who is separated. I have been seeing a MM, who is also separated, for 4 years. He has been in the process of divorce for the past 2 years.

 

I love him very much and would like a real relationship with him. He tells me he feels the same way. We are best friends and rely on each other heavily for emotional support.

 

For the most part, I believe that he is moving toward divorce – I’ve seen the various iterations of their paperwork – but I am not sure that he will ever get there. It has seemed close to final several times, only to cycle back.

 

I realize that I don’t have the right to demand anything of him, as I am still M myself. However, the situation has become very difficult for me to manage emotionally. I constantly feel like the bottom is going to get yanked out from under me.

 

I’ve talked to him about this many times. We even went to a counselor for awhile. We’ve tried to set boundaries and to step back – if only to let him focus on his stuff and to let me focus on mine – but we can never make it stick.

 

It feels like we’re walking a tightrope together, always close to falling off and never able to achieve balance. I really want to move past this place.

 

I’m not really sure what I’m looking for here. Hope/direction/support/anything to alleviate the pain I’ve been feeling for a little while. He tells me that it will all be OK in the end, but I’m really afraid to let myself believe that.

 

There are times when I feel like I am making the biggest mistake of my life, and no matter what happens, I will have to live with the regret – one way or another – for the rest of my days. It’s a heavy load to carry alone.

[Minnie09]

What mistake are you talking about? Did you leave your H for OM?

 

You're both separated now, so all you can do is get your life together and take care of YOUR D. You have yourself (and kids?) to take care of first and foremost. A D is no walk in the park. Let him deal with his own, and as soon as you're all set and paperwork is signed and settlements have been arranged, you are free to "date". Right now, it's too much to deal with. Don't deal with HIS problems on top of yours. It's not your job.

[sp2007]

Not really. Two years before I met MM, I told myself that my marriage was over. I told my H that I wanted to date other people. When I met MM, I did not get involved right away. My H knew what was going on the entire time. So, did I leave my H for OM? Not really. On the other hand, yes.

 

I absolutely know that I need to focus on resolving my situation, and I also know in my heart that the path to clarity is probably to take a break from MM -- and also H. I don't want to do that for a lot of different reasons -- mostly selfish, but not entirely. It basically comes down to fear. Fear of making a mistake, fear of hurting people, fear of ending up alone, etc.

 

I'm not proud to admit that. It's weak and sad and pathetic, and also makes me angry at myself, but it's the truth. I can tell you that I am trying to sort through it all and get myself to a better place.

 

Did I answer your question? I'm a little nervous about posting here. I know I need help, but I feel pretty fragile and am afraid that people will tell me that I have no right to feel the way I do. I'm willing to admit that may be the case, but it doesn't make the pain any less.

[Minnie09]

I'm worried that you're basing your decision to end it with your H on whether or not your MM is going to end up with you. That's not a good place to be. YOU making the decisions in YOUR life for YOURSELF is a good place to be. That's what you should focus on.

 

Independent of your MM's situation, do you think your M is fixable? What would it take to fix it? What's your H's pov? What's been missing in the M?

 

You say you told "yourself" that your M was at a dead-end 6(?) years ago. Did you only tell yourself or did you address your problems with your H? MC? It's easy to say the M is dead and then jump into the next R, but it hardly ever works out, especially with both partners going through massive life changes (D from previous partners).

 

I recommend you work on your own issues first, leave OM out of the equation (easily said, I know) and get yourself into a better place emotionally. Find your balance. You really sound terribly confused and out of balance. Balance won't come from anyone else, you have to work on it for yourself and it will develop within yourself. Once you've reached a stable starting point, you can go from there, but right now you're not in a position to make life decisions. When you're ready to make them, make them smartly. Don't rely on a false safety

net from either MM or H.

[whichwayisup]

I don't get why its taken your MM 2 extra years to divorce? If their goal IS to divorce and they've been legally separated for 2 years, living separate lives and apart, then what is the hold up with his divorce?

 

Anyway, you need to either focus on repairing your own marriage or divorce your H, reguardless of what MM does or doesn't do.

[sp2007]

Minnie, thank you for your replies. I appreciate the support. You are right. I am confused and out of balance. I know this only too well. And I agree that I need to make decisions for myself and not rely on false safety nets from either MM or H. I've been trying to do that, but I am having a hard time getting the separation from both emotionally that I need in order to be able to do so.

 

I don't think there is anything in my M to fix. My H and I lost a child. Up until that happened, we had a decent marriage. I still love him but I do not want to be married to him any longer. I just want to move on with my life. I am not sure that I can explain it any better than that. I believe that my H wants to stay married. I don't know why else he would tolerate this situation.

 

Which way, my MM has been separated for 3 years. We have been together for 4. He left about 8 months after we got together. The first year of his separation, he spent in counseling with his W. I questioned him at the time and he told me that he did not intend to return to the marriage, but that they needed a safe environment to talk about the separation, children, etc. It would be easy to say this is absolute BS, but it's never quite that simple. His W was horribly distressed and lost a great deal of weight. His children were very traumatized and required counseling. His guilt was immense.

 

They made the decision in Year #2 to divorce and have been working to reach agreement on property/custody/financials since. It is complicated as he owns his own business. Again, it would be easy to say this is all BS, but I think it is true. The pace has been positively glacial, but hey, people who live in glass houses really have no right to throw stones. I get it. Doesn't mean that I like it.

 

Minnie said she was worried that I was basing my decision to leave my M on whether MM and I were going to end up together. I really am trying very hard not to do that. I admit that part of me would still like the chance to see if it's possible for us to be together beyond this, but I have really tried hard to accept the situation for what it is now. Doing so cuts through the fog and makes it easier for me to focus on what I need to focus on. On the other hand, I also admit that part of me would sometimes like him to go back to his W. I think that means I just want resolution -- one way or the other.

[Tenacity]

No one is going to tell you that you have no right to feel how you do. How you feel is how you feel. It just is.

 

But, you do have to have some thick skin sometimes to post here, because you will get replies from folks who have 'been there and done that' and are trying to help you avert the same, as well as people who abhor what you are doing and will have no qualms telling you that. You have to take what is helpful and leave the rest. But, even in the realm of constructive advice, you may hear things you don't want to hear, but you have to be strong enough to consider that advice too.

 

The first thing I noted is that you told your H that you wanted to "date other people". You are married to him... right? He is not your boyfriend. You were not free to date other people, and he certainly had every right to object to your doing so. It's good that you separated, but I am not understanding why you haven't gotten a divorce. I have been there and done that, and it isn't a cakewalk by any means, but at some point you either have to sh*t or get off the pot. And so does your MM.

 

That is just the way I see it. I wish you the best. I know it's tough.

[sp2007]

I like you Tenacity :-) Your post made me smile. And you're absolutely right. I hope you'll continuing to support me and help me find the strength to do what needs to be done.

[jwi71]

I’m a MW, who is separated. I have been seeing a MM, who is also separated, for 4 years. He has been in the process of divorce for the past 2 years.

 

I love him very much and would like a real relationship with him. He tells me he feels the same way. We are best friends and rely on each other heavily for emotional support.

 

For the most part, I believe that he is moving toward divorce – I’ve seen the various iterations of their paperwork – but I am not sure that he will ever get there. It has seemed close to final several times, only to cycle back.

 

This is troublesome.

4 years to D?

Do you know what the hold-up is? How and why do they "cycle back"?

 

I realize that I don’t have the right to demand anything of him, as I am still M myself. However, the situation has become very difficult for me to manage emotionally. I constantly feel like the bottom is going to get yanked out from under me.

 

That is a risk in A's.

OF course, he may feel the same as you are not D yet yourself.

 

It feels like we’re walking a tightrope together, always close to falling off and never able to achieve balance. I really want to move past this place.

 

Then give him space. And take time for you.

Its hard to transition from A to "legitimate" R.

Take. Your. Time.

Best thing you can do is step back. Limit interactions. Limit contact.

Look your a grown woman not some 10 year old with an immature sense of self control. Put on the big girl panties and square yourself away and let him do the same.

 

There are times when I feel like I am making the biggest mistake of my life, and no matter what happens, I will have to live with the regret – one way or another – for the rest of my days. It’s a heavy load to carry alone.

 

What the mistake?

D your H?

Waiting for him?

Being with him?

 

And WHY are you carrying this load alone?

[whichwayisup]

What is your goal here? To be with your MM once he divorces? If this is actually the case then you must let him finish things on his end and I suggest you focus on ending your own marriage, let your husband start his real grieving process so he can move on and find someone who loves him. To quietly hang onto your husband, like he's your back up plan incase things go south with MM and he chooses to stay married and not divorce, isn't right at all. Your H deserves a chance at love, meeting someone else and starting over..

 

Do some counseling on your own to help you cope with all this.

[sp2007]

Hi jwi71, I think I answered a lot of your questions in replies to other posters. However, you mentioned something that I am curious about. You said:

 

Then give him space. And take time for you.

 

How do I do that? Do I need to walk away from the relationship entirely? I have tried setting up some boundaries, but it annoys me that I would need to do that with someone I care about. Do we actually need to agree on the amount/type of contact to have? I'm not sure I can limit my emotions to make that work. I'd be curious to hear from anyone who has successfully managed to step back.

[sp2007]

whichway, I'm struggling to reply to your post. I just don't have that level of clarity about my goal. Ultimately, I'd like to be happy. Is that too vague? I am in counseling. I have told my H repeatedly that he should move on with his life and we should get a divorce. And I've told him that I don't want to be married anymore. I have contacted attorneys. But it is really what Tenacity said. I believe MM's presence in my life makes it harder and more confusing for me to move forward, but I am reluctant to end it as I love him. I'd love some ideas on how I can step back. What else can I say? I am trying. I know my posts are probably frustrating to read, but they're an accurate reflection of the place I'm in at the moment.

[whichwayisup]

What I'm saying is, let your MM focus on ending his own marriage and dealing with their kids, helping them adjust to the changes and you focus on dealing with your husband and ending your marriage. You have absolutely no control over what goes on with the MM, it's out of your hands..So, to sit and wait to see is just going to bring more frustration into your life and confusion too.

 

Stop having sex with him, put the intimate stuff on hold. Not saying to ignore him but don't keep the A going..Take a step back.

 

There are kids in this senario too, so their feelings and their lives, how they handle this has to be taken into account. This is going to be really hard on them...Let alone a later on a blended family and being a step parent.

[whichwayisup]

Hi jwi71, I think I answered a lot of your questions in replies to other posters. However, you mentioned something that I am curious about. You said:

 

Then give him space. And take time for you.

 

How do I do that? Do I need to walk away from the relationship entirely? I have tried setting up some boundaries, but it annoys me that I would need to do that with someone I care about. Do we actually need to agree on the amount/type of contact to have? I'm not sure I can limit my emotions to make that work. I'd be curious to hear from anyone who has successfully managed to step back.

Neither of you are in a position to let things grow, let along grow as a couple as long as you both are married. That's a fact.

 

Be friends, but cut out intimacy. Don't go on dates anymore. If you two are meant to be, then ride out this storm and get together the proper way, make it official once you both are free and single. To continue the affair is pointless as it just keeps you both as affair partners. I hope this makes sense.

[jwi71]

Hi jwi71, I think I answered a lot of your questions in replies to other posters. However, you mentioned something that I am curious about. You said:

 

Then give him space. And take time for you.

 

How do I do that? Do I need to walk away from the relationship entirely? I have tried setting up some boundaries, but it annoys me that I would need to do that with someone I care about. Do we actually need to agree on the amount/type of contact to have? I'm not sure I can limit my emotions to make that work. I'd be curious to hear from anyone who has successfully managed to step back.

 

"Oh I tried not to see him but I just couldn't".

 

Bullshyte.

 

You wanted to see him so you did. Then, when you notice the cycle of suckiness is continuing, you say "I don't have the willpower". Which is a complete load of crap. Its an excuse - more precisely its an excuse FOR failing (its also a self-fulfilling prophecy).

 

Willpower is merely desire. And right now, your desire is to see him DESPITE the cycle of suckiness. Your choice. And you choose it again and again.

 

I can prove it. Let's say I really like bread pudding. Which is true, I freakin' love the stuff. Now let's say I get served a bowl but shouldn't eat it even though I want to.

 

Well, duh, I eat it.

 

I wanted to eat it so I did. I can say, and very likely will:

"I couldn't resist."

"I wasn't strong enough."

"Why the hell did you put it in front of me...what did you think I was gonna do?"

 

All a lack of willpower (which is what you are saying).

It is, of course, complete and utter crap. I wanted to eat it so I did. Simple.

 

Lets add one little element to our thought experiment.

 

Bill Gates appears (poof, like magic) and says "I'll give you 10 million dollars to not eat it".

 

Guess what doesn't get eaten.

 

What does that mean? It means I ALWAYS HAD THE WILLPOWER. I had, in me at all times, the ability to REFUSE the bread pudding. That's willpower.

 

You have it.

You just choose to ignore it.

I'll call it poor impulse control.

 

Only YOU can control YOU.

 

You want the cycle of suckiness to end, then end it.

But don't give me any crap about no willpower. YOU are choosing this.

 

Just stop.

 

And pertaining to his D, I get the sense he is full of shyte. Look, when I got D I had foreign assets, foreign earned income from said assets, two kids under 5 and all the drama that goes with divorcing my cheating wife and her bf. I got through it in under 9 months...more like 7 I think. If you truly want it, you get it.

 

I know you will protest and hem and haw...but tough. Time to grow up and stop saying you are weak, no willpower or whatever excuse you offer to hold onto your crutch (that's what he is btw). Just do it. I'm not saying cold turkey here...limit face time to 3 times a month and weekly calls. Adjust as necessary.

 

If you fall off the horse, own it, and start all over.

 

Or not. And keep crying about how you have no ability to end this. You do, you just don't want to.

 

Sorry if I seem harsh but we freakin' lost. Stupid Rangers. How the hell we blow that? Since when did Romo play baseball? Damnit.

[Spark1111]

I think something is holding both of you back.

 

This whole scenario is taking a bit too long, IMO.

 

You stated what you fear and I get it, but answer this: If your MM never finalizes his D, would you stay with your H or is he just good enough for now while your MM figures out his divorce?

 

IT is two separate issues, your divorce and your relationship with MM.

 

Make a decision regarding your marriage. If it is over, end it. That's first.

 

If it is not over, than work on it and end the relationship with MM to do so.

 

Something is telling you not to do this. Are you attaching to much importance to where and what MM is doing?

 

Because if your marriage is over it is over, regardless of what MM does, it will never get any better with him in your life.

 

I think you are allowing MM's confusion to become your own. And something is tweaking your gut about this, something is causing you to fear and fear is paralyzing.

 

Remember, there are NO guarantees in any relationship. There are only levels of trust.

 

Do you not trust MM to leave his marriage? Because you too are hesitating to divorce, and if you are not in love with your H, you should D him.

[sp2007]

Yes, whichway, it does. And actually, I talked to him this past week about stopping our physical relationship. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that's going to be enough. He leans on me heavily for emotional support so even if we're just talking on the phone, I still feel connected to him in a way that is not just friends. I've been trying not to initiate calls or texts, but really what I think I want is for us to negotiate a break for a period of time to clear our heads. I figure that if we agree on the level of contact and we both know that we will see each other again at some point, that it will remove a lot of the drama and make it a lot easier for both of us to handle the time apart, meaning that we can focus on the other things that we need to focus on in our lives.

[sp2007]

Spark, this is a great post.

 

In general, I think I'm hesitating because I want to be SURE that I am divorcing H because our M is over, not because of what MM does or does not do. I admit that it has been hard to separate the two with MM being such a huge part of my life. jwi71 is right that I have chosen to keep him in my life, but he's wrong to say that I don't recognize the consequences of that choice or that I am not willing to make changes to get myself to a better place. Do I trust MM to leave his marriage? I trust that he is moving in that direction, but I won't know for sure until he actually goes through with it. So it's not something that I can plan on, if that makes any sense.

[sp2007]

jwi71, was there a point in all that other than you like the Rangers and bread pudding? Just kidding :-)

 

I appreciate your tough love and I don't disagree with anything you said. In my defense, however, I think I've been pretty clear in my posts that I am in deep, but am trying to find my way out and get to a better place. I also think I've been pretty clear on my motivations and admittedly that some of those were selfish. It is a hard place to be. That's not an excuse, just a fact.

 

As for the pace of his D, is it BS? Who knows. There is an 18 month waiting period for filing an uncontested divorce where we live. Is there foot dragging? Probably. Do you consider that BS? I don't. BS to me is someone who tells you that they're divorcing, but still lives at home with their spouse and goes away on holidays with the family. That's not the case here.

 

All that being said, I think my perspective on his D is pretty balanced. It appears he is moving in that direction, but it's not over until it's over. I think it's healthier for me to recognize that as I try to sort out my life.

[jwi71]

I appreciate your tough love and I don't disagree with anything you said. In my defense, however, I think I've been pretty clear in my posts that I am in deep, but am trying to find my way out and get to a better place. I also think I've been pretty clear on my motivations and admittedly that some of those were selfish. It is a hard place to be. That's not an excuse, just a fact.

 

No its an excuse.

If YOU can't help yourself who will? Are you expecting someone else to change you? I hope not, your cycle of suckiness will continue forever until YOU take charge of YOU if you expect others to do your work for you.

To be frank, when you decide to make a change you will. Shockingly enough, the more you don't change the more things stay the same. Ultimately, when you WANT to change you will do it. That's willpower. You say you lack it but you don't. You don't want the change bad enough. Yet. You haven't cried enough, hurt enough, lost enough. Yet.

 

I don't know what else to tell you. You say you don't like the place you're in but do nothing about (because you're still in it). And all that tells me is you are still dependent upon him.

 

As for the pace of his D, is it BS? Who knows. There is an 18 month waiting period for filing an uncontested divorce where we live. Is there foot dragging? Probably. Do you consider that BS? I don't. BS to me is someone who tells you that they're divorcing, but still lives at home with their spouse and goes away on holidays with the family. That's not the case here.

 

18 month waiting period huh. And how long has this been going on? 4 years? Sorry, but bullshyte. That doesn't sound like someone who WANTS a D to me. Really, that's TWO 18 month waiting periods. And they STILL can't agree? Really?

 

Look, I got D.

I had businesses.

I had two kids under five.

I had foreign assets and foreign earned income from said assets.

I had a cheating W and her BF to deal with.

Time to D? 7 months max.

You want it, you get it. You don't want it, you let TWO 18 month periods go by and STILL no progress.

 

Sorry, you want to believe him that's fine. But what issue takes four freakin' years to settle?

 

Your life, indeed everyone's is what they make of it.

You say you want change but can't. Not can't, don't want to.

He says his bad evil W is holding up his D. For years. Really?

 

If you want advice...change. Change YOU. I'd do it now. How do you envision this change happening without a first step? Typically, the first step is recognizing the problem.

 

What's YOUR problem?

[spice4life]

jwi71, was there a point in all that other than you like the Rangers and bread pudding? Just kidding :-)

 

I appreciate your tough love and I don't disagree with anything you said. In my defense, however, I think I've been pretty clear in my posts that I am in deep, but am trying to find my way out and get to a better place. I also think I've been pretty clear on my motivations and admittedly that some of those were selfish. It is a hard place to be. That's not an excuse, just a fact.

 

As for the pace of his D, is it BS? Who knows. There is an 18 month waiting period for filing an uncontested divorce where we live. Is there foot dragging? Probably. Do you consider that BS? I don't. BS to me is someone who tells you that they're divorcing, but still lives at home with their spouse and goes away on holidays with the family. That's not the case here.

 

All that being said, I think my perspective on his D is pretty balanced. It appears he is moving in that direction, but it's not over until it's over. I think it's healthier for me to recognize that as I try to sort out my life.

 

You have a very balanced perspective....good for you! Hope you are able to find peace with it all soon.