"Un-Mentoring" Myself??

[UmbrellaBoy]

So, long story short, I've been having an emotional affair of sorts with another man for a year now.

 

He has a boyfriend, but...well, let's just say I've never been threatened by that (the boyfriend is weak/pathetic/pitiable, mutual friends who have met him even say it, and my guy basically admits it). My guy didn't want a relationship a year ago (though he cuddled with me bare-chested when I went to visit him), then started this other relationship.

 

I sort of refused to give up and came on very strong (this was also long distance, but we talked every night online and I sent gifts and stuff). My guy was at a low point in his life of sorts (depression, low self-esteem) and my attention and strength sort of helped him gain confidence.

 

I visited this spring and (in spite of his boyfriend) we did more bare-chested cuddling. This summer there was drama because of that. I find out now that he was hoping things would end with his boyfriend this summer...but he couldn't pull the trigger (his boyfriend is fragile and has a very tragic history) and then he got rushed into moving in with him.

 

I blew up because of this, and we didn't talk for 6 weeks, but in the meantime I moved to be near him so it wouldn't be long distance anymore. When I get here, he sends me a handwritten poem, and then drama erupts when we start meeting in person. He basically admits to being in love with me and not his boyfriend. Admits things are rocky there, and even tells me they broke up (only to get back together a few hours later) recently.

 

So, knowing all this now, I basically issue an ultimatum. Leave him for me, or I have to be out of your life. Backed into a corner, he refuses to leave right now, but he comes back later to get something he left and starts crying and lingers for an hour waffling back and forth. He's clearly on the verge of saying "Okay, I pick you" but just can't pull the trigger and keeps coming back to that. He hints at needing "more time" however.

 

The same basic conversation plays out by text a few days later, and I am so exhausted I don't stick to my guns and give him "more time." Now we're in a weird awkward space. He may even be "not supposed" to see or talk to me, but still is, though it's awkward.

 

I couldn't really understand his decision. I was inclined at first (as many of you here are likely to say) to think he's just a game-player trying to have it both ways and buy more time to have his cake and eat it too because he likes the attention, or likes being able to have "breathing room" due to his commitment fears, and so has a boyfriend without emotional investment yet a romantic attachment without official commitment, etc

 

However, something he said the other day sort of made all his "excuses" suddenly seem coherent and sincere to me. Basically, he said something like one of his major concerns was this "don't date your doctor" idea. That made things click for me.

 

Over the past year, I tried a deliberate tactic of building myself up as this knight, this hero, this savior. And he bought it hook, line, and sinker. He even admits to fantasies like that about me now. However, I'm getting the sense that maybe he respects me TOO much now. That I became this mentor figure in the past year to help him get through his own struggles and depression and self-esteem issues...and now he has a hard time seeing me as a peer or equal or real match as opposed to some mentor or authority figure. He's worried about the power differential, or about choosing me being an escapist way to just rely on my will-power and strength and confidence instead of his own.

 

He wants both strength and equality in a partner, it seems, BUT that's obviously hard if he doesn't consider himself strong (yet). If he sees himself as weak, then strength and equality becomes and "either/or" situation instead of "both/and." It feels like he picked his current boyfriend because at the time he was feeling pathetic and so this guy was an equal. As I've helped him gain confidence, I think he feels that way less and less, realizes that he is "better than" the guy he's with currently. But, he still feels intimidated by me or like I'm this mentor that dating would be weird or imbalanced in terms of authority. He wants time to gain his confidence by himself.

 

Is there any way to "un-mentor" myself? To address this fear of me being this mentor figure rather than a peer or equal?

[Capris]

Hi Umbrellaboy!

 

This is a typical situation of dynamics in a relationship.

First off "I tried a deliberate tactic of building myself up as this knight, this hero, this savior. And he bought it hook, line, and sinker." if you did it with a tactic, the plain solution is to just be yourself.

 

Another simple approach is to make HIS self confidence as strong as yours. Isnt that the point to all relationships?At least the goal, cause no relationship made by humas ever reach it, but they do get pretty close.

 

As he wants to gain confidence on his own though, just show him some of your weakneses, show him you too are "mortal".

 

But if he does has such a problem with "who has the upper hand", maybe he justs wants to and does not seek equality as you may think, so just a heads up on that.

 

Is this really the main problem that he is having when it comes to choosing between you two?

[UmbrellaBoy]

Is this really the main problem that he is having when it comes to choosing between you two?

 

 

I think so. Like I said, I thought he was being a game-player for a long time because he gave all these "excuses" that seemed all over the board...but now I feel guilty for thinking that, because his comment about "don't date your doctor" made everything fit together and make sense, and I think he was just confused and having a hard time articulating just what didn't "feel right" about the relationship in spite of the intensity of the emotional investment and romanticization of me. And then I realized "If he's looking for a peer or equal, the whole 'knight' image could backfire." He has strong inclinations to choose me, but also strong doubts about this, and since a choice to break-up is irrevocable (but a choice of "not yet" with me can always be reversed later), I think he doesn't want to risk what he currently has for something he's worried may wind up one-sided in terms of the power dynamics, or which he may worry is just a confusion between mentorship and partnership.

[sp2007]

I'm so messed up myself at the moment that I'm wary to comment, but something in what you wrote struck a chord in me. If you need to change who you are to get him to choose you, then something is very wrong. Is it possible that his "concerns" are merely a stalling tactic to prevent making a decision? Or maybe it's not really conscious and he's just very confused -- and being confused myself -- I get that. Why do you think he stays with his current boyfriend? Have they been together long? And why do you want this man so much that you are willing to tolerate his waffling? You seem strong and confident. What does he give you that you need/want and could you find that elsewhere with someone who can truly return your attention/affection? It sounds like you are just starting this relationship and I really hate to see you hop aboard the pain train. Having been riding it for 4 years myself, I now have a bit of perspective on how it all starts. You're at the gate ready to board. Personally, next time I'm taking the bus :-)

Edited October 29, 2011 by sp2007

[UmbrellaBoy]

Well, as Capris suggested, maybe my problem isn't that I need to change myself, but rather that I need to be myself ("mortal") without the "strong face" I put up for him for so long to help him get through his own struggles. To show him that I would need to "lean on" him too sometimes as much as he's leaned on me through the past year. He's with his current boyfriend, it seems, mainly because he started that a low-point in his life and now feels trapped (by pity/guilt about hurting the guy) and unwilling to gamble away that vaguely comfortable (if mediocre) situation until/unless he KNOWS it's worth the risk. I was mad at his "waffling" at first, but if he sees me as this mentor-figure right now, then it makes more sense and I feel guilty for trying to use my position of "power"/authority to try to pressure him into decision. A romantic relationship has to be an equal partnership, not a mentorship, and if he's seeing our relationship more in terms of the latter...that is a legitimate concern. I'd like to figure out how to get out of that position, though, to not be the mentor anymore, to just be a peer (I'm 2 years younger than him, for godsake).

[whichwayisup]

Fact is, he still has a boyfriend and he still wants you. He's cake eating and is selfish. Not malciously but selfishly. He isn't think of what's best for your heart, or his partners, he's only thinking of himself and what makes HIM happy.

 

If you are okay with that, then settle and be his OM, with no expectations, it is what it is. Or, as hard as it'll be and as much as you love him, tell him goodbye and to not call or email, or come see you until he has officially broken up with his boyfriend. Only then will you 'date' him..

 

Your heart is in this and I'm not sure his is. You are getting hurt and for what? A guy who has no real plans on being with you long term.

 

Go read threads in this section to help you see how similar your situation is to others here.

[spice4life]

Your post makes a lot of sense. It's so much better to be involved with someone whom you view as a peer as opposed to a mentor. Much more fun too! How can you have intimacy with the one you love if you are viewing them as a teacher instead of an individual with toughts and feelings of their own right? A teacher guides you and provides knowledge....it's a cerebral thing an a completely different kind of relationship. A SO is someone you walk side by side with and grow and learn together.

[UmbrellaBoy]

Well, I'm not sure they're entirely different, actually. I think a mentorship-type relationship has many of the elements (intellectual compatibility, respect, affection, shared values, "knowing" the other person inside-out, support, even romanticized notions) that would make a romantic relationship great...it's just that in a mentorship they move in "one direction" whereas in a partnership they are "two directional."

 

However, I only took on this "mentor" role to help give him strength during a depressed and difficult time in his life. I WANT to be equals and peers, and I feel like he IS my equal and peer (in fact, that's the whole affirming message I was trying to send: I consider you "at my level" even if you don't feel it right now).

 

And I think he's getting to the point where he wants to be my equal too (he even said somethings recently like "I want to be the one giving the gifts sometimes, instead of always you to me" and "I wonder if I even really know you, because we always talk about me and my problems. I want to get to know you now.")

 

But how do I/we make that "shift"? I feel like part of the reason things became one sided was purely practical: I could express my affection openly because I wasn't attached, whereas he had to be more reserved with me (though occasionally letting things show, of course, like the cuddling etc) because it would be inappropriate otherwise given that he had a boyfriend.

 

Yet I don't want to be in this mentor position, especially if it prevents a real relationship. I mean, I have no official authority over him (I'm not his psychologist or clergyman or professor, etc) and as I said I'm even younger than him. It's based purely on a imbalance of strength of personality. But as I said, that was a bit of a "front," I put on a "strong face" and trotted out all my "confident wisdom" for him, became a "knight" to help him through his depression, but was leaning on dozens of friends of my own to deal with the exhaustion that caused emotionally.

 

I would LOVE to lean on him sometime, to have him affirm or build me up, to have him be the one talking through MY problems, or giving ME the gifts etc, in other words to have an equal balance. Should I just tell him this outright? Let him know this? Discuss it with him?

 

The problem is we're in a "Catch 22" it feels like: he's afraid to leave his current guy for me because of the doubts about how one-sided "we" have been. But they can't really become genuinely two-sided until/unless he does leave his boyfriend. But he is hesitant to do that because of how one-sided things might be. But the only way to dispel that doubt would be to take the risk or plunge and TRY things to see if they could become more balanced or mutual or two-sided. But it's that very doubt which is making the plunge seem too risky!

 

So, is there anyway to not be a "mentor" BEFORE he breaks up with his boyfriend? To dispel that doubt and make things more "balanced" or two-directional just "as friends" even while he's still with his guy, in order to remove that doubt or inferiority-dynamic? I really don't want to be the mentor anymore, I want to be a peer or equal partner.

Edited October 29, 2011 by UmbrellaBoy

[spice4life]

Well, I'm not sure they're entirely different, actually. I think a mentorship-type relationship has many of the elements (intellectual compatibility, respect, affection, shared values, "knowing" the other person inside-out, support, even romanticized notions) that would make a romantic relationship great...it's just that in a mentorship they move in "one direction" whereas in a partnership they are "two directional."

 

However, I only took on this "mentor" role to help give him strength during a depressed and difficult time in his life. I WANT to be equals and peers, and I feel like he IS my equal and peer (in fact, that's the whole affirming message I was trying to send: I consider you "at my level" even if you don't feel it right now).

 

And I think he's getting to the point where he wants to be my equal too (he even said somethings recently like "I want to be the one giving the gifts sometimes, instead of always you to me" and "I wonder if I even really know you, because we always talk about me and my problems. I want to get to know you now.")

 

But how do I/we make that "shift"? I feel like part of the reason things became one sided was purely practical: I could express my affection openly because I wasn't attached, whereas he had to be more reserved with me (though occasionally letting things show, of course, like the cuddling etc) because it would be inappropriate otherwise given that he had a boyfriend.

 

Yet I don't want to be in this mentor position, especially if it prevents a real relationship. I mean, I have no official authority over him (I'm not his psychologist or clergyman or professor, etc) and as I said I'm even younger than him. It's based purely on a imbalance of strength of personality. But as I said, that was a bit of a "front," I put on a "strong face" and trotted out all my "confident wisdom" for him, became a "knight" to help him through his depression, but was leaning on dozens of friends of my own to deal with the exhaustion that caused emotionally.

 

I would LOVE to lean on him sometime, to have him affirm or build me up, to have him be the one talking through MY problems, or giving ME the gifts etc, in other words to have an equal balance. Should I just tell him this outright? Let him know this? Discuss it with him?

 

The problem is we're in a "Catch 22" it feels like: he's afraid to leave his current guy for me because of the doubts about how one-sided "we" have been. But they can't really become genuinely two-sided until/unless he does leave his boyfriend. But he is hesitant to do that because of how one-sided things might be. But the only way to dispel that doubt would be to take the risk or plunge and TRY things to see if they could become more balanced or mutual or two-sided. But it's that very doubt which is making the plunge seem too risky!

 

So, is there anyway to not be a "mentor" BEFORE he breaks up with his boyfriend? To dispel that doubt and make things more "balanced" or two-directional just "as friends" even while he's still with his guy, in order to remove that doubt or inferiority-dynamic? I really don't want to be the mentor anymore, I want to be a peer or equal partner.

 

My thought is that you need to be honest with him and tell him how you feel...just like you are here. Reassure him that you do not have ulterior motives and that you just want to see if the two of you can strike a balance and be peers to one another. It's the only way both of you can actually see if you can actually get along and enjoy each other's company. It's also the only way to see if you are compatible. IMHO anyway.

 

Not sure this helps, but your question seems valid to me.

[UmbrellaBoy]

Yeah. I will discuss it with him. I feel almost like there is a situation here of "transference" like people get with therapists. He's fallen in love with me, but he wonders whether he's fallen in love with ME or with me-as-his-"therapist" or the "idea of" me in a transference-type dynamic.

 

Of course, as I said, I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. The same qualities and dynamics that attract and are romanticized in transference ARE actually attractive and romantic and could indicate a real compatibility, it's just the one-sidedness or power-differential that makes it problematic.

 

However, like I said, I'm not just some therapist with a client who's fallen for me...I was a friend who took on that sort of persona exactly because I was in love with HIM first. It's not there is intrinsically some differential or imbalance like that between us, it's just that this is how circumstances sort of required it to be for a year or so. But I'd like to get back to a 'give and take' to a real balance rather than this vision of me as the authority-figure/mentor.

Edited October 29, 2011 by UmbrellaBoy

[UmbrellaBoy]

Yes, I agree with what you say, which is why I need to get out of this mentor role now. I put on a strong face to help him through a difficult time, and this did cause him in the end to fall for me, but now we're both worried if he fell for ME me, or for the "knight" I decided to be for him during his rough times. We need to see now if we can make the transition to two-sided from that one-sidedness.

 

Showing my humanness or vulnerabilities is the advice most people have given me but...my main "problems" in life relate to him, lol. He is the source of most of pain, sorrow, flaws, etc. It's sort of weird to ask him for advice about himself. Also, we've reached a point where it's like...if I show weakness, even that is perceived as a sign of strength (because only a strong person would deliberately and willingly admit their weaknesses, or something like that). Like, when I try that, it only makes him respect me MORE. It's frustrating. I don't want to be this mentor anymore, because I am just a regular guy who acted strong out of love when he needed strength, but now it's a barrier to further growth in the relationship.

 

I'll try discussing it with him, I guess, that's all I can do for now.