OM/OW Analogy - Prospecting for a new job....

[SBC]

Why is divorce deemed such a terrible thing?

 

We discuss percentages, and terms, and all that stuff, round and round, when in the end, what matters is not whether people stay together or not, but how they treat each other either while together or during divorce.

[MissBee]

I often see where people talk about cheating spouse being in an unhappy marriages. Soooooo many people do not understand the stages of a relationship. They do not get the honeymoon stage is ALWAYS followed by the disillusioned stage. Which eventually leads to maturity.

They think all marriage is about honeymoon stage and keeping each other happy. All marriages go through stages of good and bad. Mature folks learn to ride those stages out . But those are rare people.

 

I think more people would like to believe the movie version of romance and soulmates, than the reality of science. We are actually more alike than different. that is probably why many affairs follow a script.

 

It always amazes me when people justify being unhappy in a marriage as a reason to cheat. Realistically most SINGLE folks have to date many frogs or fake princesses to find a keeper. So if that is true, the married person would have to do quite a bit of dating to find the next replacement.

 

What always puzzles me though is that while married,magically that rule does not apply. Usually they meet that "one" person at work and they are meant to be soulmates. The first person willing to have an affair with the married person seems made for them. Always was odd to me.

 

My sister who married 5 times had affairs on all 4 x-husbands. Married her second husband affair partner. But all the affairs she had during marriage were romantic affairs. She left marriages for affair partners. Ironically,when she did not get with the affair partners she left marriage for,just like most single people she went through years of dating "frogs" before she would meet next husband.Affairs made her magically find love.

 

Great post jlola!

 

It's very true...if we pause to really consider certain things and really look at them from an objective angle, we may come up with a very different interpretation of them. It is quite true that it seems rather far-fetched that when one is single, you usually date multiple people before you find "the one", yet so many people engaging in affairs believe this person is their soulmate. I mean...is it possible? Yes. But the fact that so many people, as you say, have such similar experiences and "connections"...doesn't that at least give one pause and make one want to at least consider the possibility that there is some type of reason for this phenomena that is not unique to just you and may not necessarily be as "meant to be" as you think?

 

Individual experience is valid definitely...but I think it's silly not to consider your unique experience within a larger context.

[MissBee]

Some people may marry when they are too immature to make a good choice - although people under the age of 22 or so have high divorce statistics, so not sure how many stick it out when they would be better off divorcing. More generally, I believe the research that finds that happy people tend to have happy marriages and the best predictor for being happily married is the individual, not who they marry.

I married the love of my life, but over the decades, we have both come to realize that it is really us as individuals, our own values, skills, capacity for love and happiness, that makes us each a good partner in marriage. If you are a great spouse, you are likely to be happy whether single or married, although being married can add even more depth to your happiness. Also, I think even more happiness lies in being a great spouse than in having a great spouse.

 

I have to agree with that.

 

How love is talked about in the media, average people just chit chatting, here on LS, when people are discussing their relationships, in various forums here...I often do not relate (anymore). As the idea often includes some form of this person completing you, some form of codependency masked as romance, some form of you having some personal issue but believing if you find a new bf/bf/husband/wife things will be different, some form of abnegating your responsibilities and agency and demanding other people be responsible for some aspect of your well being etc.

 

I think in general, especially how the world is now, it doesn't foster people looking within themselves first but always to outside sources. I think that contributes to people simply not knowing what a relationship even means and what to realistically expect. I am a romantic person by nature but I've been learning and am learning that really, romance and partnership can only be great as supplements to my life. So if I don't love my life, don't love myself, don't work on myself and being the best me...then 1. I am going to attract a man who is on a similar level and 2. No external relationship will fill that lack...at least not for long. The desire for partnership is normal but I think the kinds of partnerships you form, put up with, how much that desire not to be alone drives you says a lot about your emotional/mental landscape.

[jlola]

Another good, informative article. People need tools and information on how to navigate marriage and deal with different stages. But as long as people count on romance novel and hollywood to learn about relationships there will be much divorce and dissapointments.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Power Struggle Stage or Common Relationship Problems Start

 

Serge Cohn

Serge Cohn coaches evolved men on how to choose a life partner, how to solve relationship problems, and how to keep romance alive. By blending his experience with the wisdom of his mentors, he helps you navigate the world of love, relationships, and self-growth. Download your free e-book from http://www.mens-relationship-advice.com

 

Common relationship problems start shortly after you move in together with your spouse.

But what you’ve never been told is that this is the typical 'power struggle', the second phase of any relationship, a troubled - but necessary (like puberty) - developmental stage.

 

The illusion that romantic love lasts forever, that true love does not require any work is the main cause of most common relationship problems you - like virtually all couples - are faced with.

If both you and your partner were once thoughtful, interested, and excited (in every way) by each other, now you may have become bored, passive, irritated, or restless in your interaction.

 

What May Trigger Common Relationship Problems?

 

Household work, sharing finances, ego hassles, annoying personal habits, ex-spouses, stepchildren, friends, in-laws, and more often than not, lack of knowledge about essential relationship principles, are just a few factors that generate conflicts.

 

Being right (or accurate) becomes more important for both of you than collaborative teamwork. Differences that were once overlooked now are hopeless obstacles.

 

Instead of partners, the power struggle transforms you in adversaries; you use criticism, blame, sarcasm, and even hostility on a daily basis.

 

 

 

Agonizing, isn’t it?

 

Your anger and depression make you and your partner start neglecting, avoiding, and losing interest in each other; gradually, you drift apart.

 

Many couples give up during this most difficult stage. In fact, 50% of divorces happen during the power struggle.

 

Most of the couples that decide to stay together through the unhappiness and conflicts of their relationship problems for the kids, or because of financial, social, or religious issues, are totally alienated from each other and their sexual intimacy is gone.

 

“Solutions”

 

If you are going through the power struggle stage and don’t want to divorce, you are most likely to disconnect from your partner - even if you end up living under the same roof.

 

Not knowing how to heal your relationship, feeling flat and empty, you tend to redirect most of your energy into a so-called 'parallel marriage': long work hours or a huge amount of time spent with hobbies, sports, gym, Internet, children, or volunteering.

 

You may even get involved with another woman without realizing that - in this particularly vulnerable period – it may turn into a passionate and destructive affair.

 

Sadly, this damages even more your primary relationship and almost never works, since you'll repeat the same errors in the new relationship’s power struggle stage all over again.

 

What To Do

 

Are you one of the few people who are looking for a better solution than divorce, a ‘parallel marriage’, or a temporary affair? If your relationship is not completely compromised, now you need to get help!

 

 

You must understand that this stage of common relationship problems is expected, necessary, and meant to be surmounted.

 

If you really want to overcome this difficult period, get the tools you need to go into the ‘transformation stage’: http://www.mens-relationship-advice.com/relationship-stages.html

[Got it]

I often see where people talk about cheating spouse being in an unhappy marriages. Soooooo many people do not understand the stages of a relationship. They do not get the honeymoon stage is ALWAYS followed by the disillusioned stage. Which eventually leads to maturity.

 

They think all marriage is about honeymoon stage and keeping each other happy. All marriages go through stages of good and bad. Mature folks learn to ride those stages out . But those are rare people.

 

I think more people would like to believe the movie version of romance and soulmates, than the reality of science. We are actually more alike than different. that is probably why many affairs follow a script.

 

It always amazes me when people justify being unhappy in a marriage as a reason to cheat. Realistically most SINGLE folks have to date many frogs or fake princesses to find a keeper. So if that is true, the married person would have to do quite a bit of dating to find the next replacement.

 

What always puzzles me though is that while married,magically that rule does not apply. Usually they meet that "one" person at work and they are meant to be soulmates. The first person willing to have an affair with the married person seems made for them. Always was odd to me.

 

My sister who married 5 times had affairs on all 4 x-husbands. Married her second husband affair partner. But all the affairs she had during marriage were romantic affairs. She left marriages for affair partners. Ironically,when she did not get with the affair partners she left marriage for,just like most single people she went through years of dating "frogs" before she would meet next husband.Affairs made her magically find love.

 

Okay, so how long is the honeymoon period? When is it a fair assessment to say you are completely disillusioned? Outside of your sister's story, which is not the norm.

 

Relationships start well prior to the marriage and the foundation and patterns are well engrained prior to the walk down the aisle. And I think many people do not take into account the actual reality of their relationship prior to the wedded bliss.

 

I say this based on my own situation and many others I know. That doesn't mean that there can't be changes made but, in staying with the analogy, many take the first job offer that comes around instead of waiting to actually find the right fit between employer and candidate.

 

And I do think that marriage can and should be more like a business agreement. The whole financial piece would be figured out in the beginning with a prenup while you still like the person, and not at the end when it has dissolved into a he said/she said hissy fit of epic proportion. A marriage is a major deal and impacts many people. Limiting or minimizing the emotions would actually be quite helpful in finding resolution to any and all issues.

[Got it]

I have to agree with that.

 

How love is talked about in the media, average people just chit chatting, here on LS, when people are discussing their relationships, in various forums here...I often do not relate (anymore). As the idea often includes some form of this person completing you, some form of codependency masked as romance, some form of you having some personal issue but believing if you find a new bf/bf/husband/wife things will be different, some form of abnegating your responsibilities and agency and demanding other people be responsible for some aspect of your well being etc.

 

I think in general, especially how the world is now, it doesn't foster people looking within themselves first but always to outside sources. I think that contributes to people simply not knowing what a relationship even means and what to realistically expect. I am a romantic person by nature but I've been learning and am learning that really, romance and partnership can only be great as supplements to my life. So if I don't love my life, don't love myself, don't work on myself and being the best me...then 1. I am going to attract a man who is on a similar level and 2. No external relationship will fill that lack...at least not for long. The desire for partnership is normal but I think the kinds of partnerships you form, put up with, how much that desire not to be alone drives you says a lot about your emotional/mental landscape.

 

I agree with this. A relationship should be the "icing on the cake" not the core of someone's existence. I know much of my marriage and the relationship prior to it was a mess of co-dependency disguised as what a relationship is suppose to look like.

 

One thing the divorce and EMR has helped teach me is really valuing me. My time, my values, my needs, and my accomplishments separate of my romantic relationships. I have finally learned how to be happy with myself, truly happy with myself, and know that I can take care of me. So while I enjoy someone getting the oil changed in my car, fixing the a/c unit, or holding my hand at my grandmother's funeral. I know that all of those things would have been fine and done all by myself.

 

For a long time fear held me back and stopped me from being strong. Learning to rely on myself and being my own best advocate was the most important thing I could do to loving myself.

[jlola]

many take the first job offer that comes around instead of waiting to actually find the right fit between employer and candidate.

.

 

Ins't that what happens with affairs? First job offer(or person willing to have affair with married person becomes soulmate. Would it not be better for married person who is unhappy with marriage after trying their best to solve issues to divorce? Then after they are single,date around and find a few good prospects before choosing the final one to settle down with.

[jlola]

Honeymoon period can last up to 3 years. Longer in affairs since they are intermittent. Look up "science of love" ,"Chemistry of love" "Stages of relationships".

 

So much information. We all think we know how to make a relationship work, though we rarely see an example of a good one.

 

We somehow think we have the secret. But in reality,acquiring knowledge about the stages and how we react while in those stages may help more marriages stay together than just thinking "our love is special".

 

These courses should be taught in school. But few people really look into the reality of love relationships.

[Got it]

Honeymoon period can last up to 3 years. Longer in affairs since they are intermittent. Look up "science of love" ,"Chemistry of love" "Stages of relationships".

 

So much information. We all think we know how to make a relationship work, though we rarely see an example of a good one.

 

We somehow think we have the secret. But in reality,acquiring knowledge about the stages and how we react while in those stages may help more marriages stay together than just thinking "our love is special".

 

These courses should be taught in school. But few people really look into the reality of love relationships.

 

Okay so three years and longer is a reasonable amount of time to be able to fairly assess your partner correct?

 

If that is the case, why do most marriages end around the 7-10 year mark? Seems like the honeymoon period has been enjoyed and a round or two of disillusionment, etc is visited by that point.

 

If that is the case, wouldn't most partners actually have a good understanding of their relationship?

[Got it]

Ins't that what happens with affairs? First job offer(or person willing to have affair with married person becomes soulmate. Would it not be better for married person who is unhappy with marriage after trying their best to solve issues to divorce? Then after they are single,date around and find a few good prospects before choosing the final one to settle down with.

 

Well first off I have to argue with the term soulmate as that is not a term that is part of my lexicon. I don't believe in them and find the concept quite silly.

 

Why assumed that the unhappy partner(s) hasn't tried to resolve the issues in their marriage up to the point of divorce?

 

Why assumed the relationship they are in is the first one offered? Lol, do people actually believe that those in affairs were sending out messages like telemarketers just waiting for someone to stay on the line? I can think of a guy or two that seemed to have that approach but don't think that is the norm.

 

But yes I think in all relationships someone may take that approach so not to be alone. I do think in some cases someone may just take any offers made instead of also interviewing the interviewer to make sure a good fit.

 

While I am not saying that one can't make the right choice first time out of the gate, many successful marriages that show this. But I think it is the piece of knowing yourself, good, bad and ugly, and knowing what you need out of a relationship to make the best complimentary fit.

[jlola]

Okay so three years and longer is a reasonable amount of time to be able to fairly assess your partner correct?

 

If that is the case, why do most marriages end around the 7-10 year mark? Seems like the honeymoon period has been enjoyed and a round or two of disillusionment, etc is visited by that point.

 

?

 

Because by 3rd or 4th year of marriage most people have a child. Unfortunately, at times of stress in a relationship, most people think a child will make their bond stronger. Then 2 years after first child there is usually #2. By the time that child is raised to be a toddler 7 years has passed. Now some people go on to have baby #3. starts getting harder to leave after that.

 

But if people are more realistic about marriage and understand the stages which pose danger. They may be able to navigate through the trials instead of searching elsewhere for answers. It's called maturity.

[jlola]

 

Why assumed the relationship they are in is the first one offered? Lol, do people actually believe that those in affairs were sending out messages like telemarketers just waiting for someone to stay on the line? I can think of a guy or two that seemed to have that approach but don't think that is the norm.

.

 

 

Then either the married person is serial cheater, or I guess the affair person is so special though they turned down everyone else hitting on them, the affair partner just had exactly what they are looking for. Either way,end one long term relationship before starting another. Why is that so hard to do?Cakeaters are very selfish. They want it all, without the consequences. Let their spouse deal with the abandonment,disrespect,backstabbing. They have already made sure their ass is covered so they do not have to deal with being alone.

[SoMovinOn]

that is just your view; it is not mine. a job and a marriage are not even on the same page. i do not have a sexual relationship with the people at my job nor do i have an emotional relationship with them. they are co-workers; nothing more, nothing less. my life goes on whether they show up to work or take a new job.

 

No. It's not my view, it's just reality. Reality exists whether you agree with it or not. A relationship is just a a connection, association, or involvement. Whether you agree or not, you *do* have a relationship with the people you work with. You do have expectations of trust, respect, commitment and loyalty in those relationships. If you don't get those things, the relationship suffers. It is true of *any* relationship.

 

trying to compare a job to a marriage is like comparing apples and oranges.

 

Yet, comparing a relationship to a relationship is like comparing two things that are the same.

 

kinda ridiculous to even suggest marriage and jobs are the same.

 

Yet, not so ridiculous to suggest relationships are very much like relationships.

 

In a work relationship, destruction of trust and betrayal can destroy the relationship and cause one or both parties so seek changes.

In a romantic relationship, destruction of trust and betrayal can destroy the relationship and cause one or both parties so seek changes.

In a relationship with a friend, destruction of trust and betrayal can destroy the relationship and cause one or both parties so seek changes.

In a relationship with a family member, destruction of trust and betrayal can destroy the relationship and cause one or both parties so seek changes.

In a relationship with someone who shares a hobby, destruction of trust and betrayal can destroy the relationship and cause one or both parties so seek changes.

 

See how easy that is?

 

 

i guess cheaters will always try to figure out a way to make an affair legitimate and something to yearn for.

 

An interesting guess. How does it relate to the discussion here?

[SoMovinOn]

where is your research to back this up, or is just your opinion?

 

From my post, which you quoted...

"In my experience..."

[Got it]

Because by 3rd or 4th year of marriage most people have a child. Unfortunately, at times of stress in a relationship, most people think a child will make their bond stronger. Then 2 years after first child there is usually #2. By the time that child is raised to be a toddler 7 years has passed. Now some people go on to have baby #3. starts getting harder to leave after that.

 

But if people are more realistic about marriage and understand the stages which pose danger. They may be able to navigate through the trials instead of searching elsewhere for answers. It's called maturity.

 

Umm, most relationships start prior to marriage. Do those years not count? Also the marjority of relationships now involve living together prior to marriage so that would negate the "needing to live together to really UNDERSTAND the person". (which I also think is rubbish based on my own experience. Living together/marriage added nothing new to my experience with my husband that dating him for years prior hadn't concluded.)

 

And generation X is now showing that most women in it are not having children so most marriages for them are not producing children and so are not hitting those issues.

[Got it]

Then either the married person is serial cheater, or I guess the affair person is so special though they turned down everyone else hitting on them, the affair partner just had exactly what they are looking for. Either way,end one long term relationship before starting another. Why is that so hard to do?Cakeaters are very selfish. They want it all, without the consequences. Let their spouse deal with the abandonment,disrespect,backstabbing. They have already made sure their ass is covered so they do not have to deal with being alone.

 

Yes which is actually very similar to single dating, no? Isn't most dating like " they turn down everyone else hitting on them, . . . the partner just had exactly what they are looking for . . . "?

 

But this is a digression and just a funny observation I had.

[Spark1111]

Some people may marry when they are too immature to make a good choice - although people under the age of 22 or so have high divorce statistics, so not sure how many stick it out when they would be better off divorcing. More generally, I believe the research that finds that happy people tend to have happy marriages and the best predictor for being happily married is the individual, not who they marry.

 

I married the love of my life, but over the decades, we have both come to realize that it is really us as individuals, our own values, skills, capacity for love and happiness, that makes us each a good partner in marriage. If you are a great spouse, you are likely to be happy whether single or married, although being married can add even more depth to your happiness. Also, I think even more happiness lies in being a great spouse than in having a great spouse.

 

Great post! And learned the hard way; in therapy. Many WSs following infidelity discover it was not what they were getting out of the relationship; it was how little they were giving.

 

I am not a proponent of staying in loveless marriages, but that vague discontent you blame your spouse for is surely the precursor of an emotional distancing from them. You started to give less and less, and then found yourself so isolated and lonely, you turned elsewhere.

 

It's pretty common.

[Spark1111]

Then either the married person is serial cheater, or I guess the affair person is so special though they turned down everyone else hitting on them, the affair partner just had exactly what they are looking for. Either way,end one long term relationship before starting another. Why is that so hard to do?Cakeaters are very selfish. They want it all, without the consequences. Let their spouse deal with the abandonment,disrespect,backstabbing. They have already made sure their ass is covered so they do not have to deal with being alone.

 

So agree!

 

And statistically, only 3 out of 95% of all affairs are in exit affair. They leave, fairly quickly, to commit to the affair partner. The marriage was long dead before they met the AP.

 

Unfortunately, these are the affairs we all know of because they are quick and out in the open. It clouds are perceptions of affairs because we think everyone must ride off into the sunset because look how happy Bill and Suzi are.

[Spark1111]

Umm, most relationships start prior to marriage. Do those years not count? Also the marjority of relationships now involve living together prior to marriage so that would negate the "needing to live together to really UNDERSTAND the person". (which I also think is rubbish based on my own experience. Living together/marriage added nothing new to my experience with my husband that dating him for years prior hadn't concluded.)

 

And generation X is now showing that most women in it are not having children so most marriages for them are not producing children and so are not hitting those issues.

 

Uhm, no....the years spent dating prior to marriage do not really count towards anything but limerance.

 

It's fun, exciting, and not too much shared responsibilty. Partners still have very separate lives and interests. They do not have to negotiate space. They just take it when they need to. They do not have the pressures or cooking, shopping, working and cleaning the apartment or house, staying up with a sick baby and which in-laws do we see on the holidays.

[Silly_Girl]

Uhm, no....the years spent dating prior to marriage do not really count towards anything but limerance.

 

It's fun, exciting, and not too much shared responsibilty. Partners still have very separate lives and interests. They do not have to negotiate space. They just take it when they need to. They do not have the pressures or cooking, shopping, working and cleaning the apartment or house, staying up with a sick baby and which in-laws do we see on the holidays.

 

Is there a difference between living together with a joint tenancy/mortgage whilst not married compared to living together in the same conditions when married? The things you speak of we're exactly the things occurring in my LTR, but we never married. Owned properties together and shared child care (his and mine, none 'ours').

[Got it]

Uhm, no....the years spent dating prior to marriage do not really count towards anything but limerance.

 

It's fun, exciting, and not too much shared responsibilty. Partners still have very separate lives and interests. They do not have to negotiate space. They just take it when they need to. They do not have the pressures or cooking, shopping, working and cleaning the apartment or house, staying up with a sick baby and which in-laws do we see on the holidays.

 

I strongly disagree with this. Again, since most relationships now start with living together they would include the above. And since more and more marriages do not include children that piece is not a requirement of love. I do not think my marriage with my ex was "less than" another marriage because we choose not to procreate.

 

And while I would agree you would deal with limerance if one was dating for say a year or so prior to marriage, multiple years really negates that point. In my case we dated for 7 years prior to marriage including living together. I think I can safely say that I knew my spouse prior to marriage. Walking down the aisle did not add, delete, or change anything. It was a different day, same stuff. The issues, foundation, coping mechanisms that you have in play WELL prior to that legalizing the marriage are all there when you wake up that next day.

 

And we dealt with who's family we spent time with years prior to marriage as did most friends that I have. All the issues, and some did include kids, happened prior to a walk down the aisle.

 

It is not in anyone's best interest to negate those dating years. Maybe decades prior when the sexes did not comingle as much, did not live together, did not have sex before marriage, etc that case would be true where there truly was a "honeymoon" period, and learning about the other parties. But I don't believe nowaday that is the case.

[Got it]

So agree!

 

And statistically, only 3 out of 95% of all affairs are in exit affair. They leave, fairly quickly, to commit to the affair partner. The marriage was long dead before they met the AP.

 

Unfortunately, these are the affairs we all know of because they are quick and out in the open. It clouds are perceptions of affairs because we think everyone must ride off into the sunset because look how happy Bill and Suzi are.

 

Can you cite this statistic? I am not sure how that is a known quantity since I don't believe all affairs, or even most affairs, are actually known/divulged.