Anybody else heard logic like this from to-be-ex cheating spouse?

[reservoirdog1]

Just had a shouting match with TBXW last night. I really need somebody's feedback on this... the fact that this even became an issue to fight over is driving me bats*** crazy.

 

During the marriage, TBXW cheated numerous times. She broke her vows. I never cheated on her. After she sat me down and laid it all out in August, we spent two months working on the marriage -- though it was really just me working because she didn't put her heart into it. At the end of September, she said that she didn't want to keep trying and said we should separate in a month. I felt like I'd been trying to fix the marriage and not gotten anywhere, and from my perspective she wanted out. I spent the next month packing and moved out on November 1.

 

We've been separated ever since. She has a BF and I've been with a few women in that time. There have been a few attempts to try again. Her attempts were declined by me and mine were declined by her.

 

She says she's been doing a lot of soul searching in the last number of months, trying to understand her own needs and why she cheated and lied, so as to not make the same mistakes in her future relationships. She's trying to take the lessons learned from our stillborn marriage and apply them going forward. Sounds good so far.

 

In the process of doing so, she's come to the conclusion that, for years during the marriage, and up until a few months ago when she realized it, she was "sick" -- i.e. a mental and emotional mess, dealt with her unhappiness in destructive ways, by the time she told me everything and tried to work with me to fix the marriage, she was so damaged that she didn't have it in her to really work on it. Maybe that's true too.

 

However -- and this is the problem -- she's also voiced the opinion that I should have pressed her harder to work on the marriage. And just last night, she pointed out that our marriage vows said, "in sickness and in health", and that by not pressing her harder to work on the marriage when she was "sick" -- an idea which never occurred to me until she first started saying it a month or two ago -- and by giving up (because all the indications were that it was over and she wanted out), I BROKE MY VOWS TOO.

 

I cannot stomach that. It seems like a massive attempt at revisionist history. I had my faults as a husband, no doubt about that. And maybe it never could have worked. But I cannot accept that my acknowledgment in October of the marriage being over in the face of her stated desire to end it (and the fact that she'd already indicated she was interested in somebody else) translates into a breach of the vows by me.

 

So, my reaction to that was to scream, "DON'T YOU EVEN TRY TO ACCUSE ME OF BREAKING MY VOWS, YOU F*CKING C*NT" before slamming the phone down. We spoke after that and she just doesn't seem to get it.

 

Anybody else have a take on this?

[bluechocolate]

How about this take?

 

She's an immature little girl who doesn't want to take responsibility for her own actions?

 

If it's over, it's over. What is there to gain from the two of you hashing over the same sh*t months after you've moved out & on? I'm surprised that you're still in contact to the extent that you have these kinds of conversations. Are you positive you two are finished with each other?

[reservoirdog1]

That's a good question, Blue. When I moved out, I didn't expect that she'd try to get me back. And it shocked the hell out of me that I was willing to consider it too at times.

 

The reason it came up was that she told me she was trying to re-evaluate, assess what went wrong so as not to make the same mistakes in the future, etc. She wanted me to participate in those efforts with her. I told her -- in a firm but not angry way -- that I wasn't able to have those discussions with her. That I wasn't prepared to spend time with her analyzing what went wrong so that she could use the new lessons to build a better relationship with somebody else. I told her that we each have to go forward without help from the other. The rest of the crap that followed just sort of happened.

 

Somehow I keep getting sucked into these conversations. Not because she always phones up and wants to start them, but because somebody says something that gets the ball rolling and neither of us tries to end the conversation until a lot more sh*t has been said. I can't simply stop talking to her at all because we have two kids.

 

And no, I don't honestly know if we're finished with each other, emotionally anyway. She's ostensibly moved on with somebody else but has been having a rough few weeks, so she says. I've been dating but nothing serious yet. And there are mounds of intellectual arguments against the very idea of discussing any of this.

 

Anyway, that's a bit more info. Anybody else have a viewpoint on the original post?

[brashgal]

I also have two children and also heard the same argument from my ex. I finally told him that the only thing I wanted to talk to him about was the children. I also made it clear that I would not be the OW to his girlfriend (who was the OW in our relationship). If he wanted emotional support he was going to have to get it elsewhere, I was not his 'friend'.

 

It's a little sad but it works, I had just come to the conclusion that it was pointless to continue going round and round. You can't do 'no contact' when you have kids so this is the next best thing.

[bluechocolate]

I can't simply stop talking to her at all because we have two kids.

 

Ah, hence the contact.

 

I like brashgal's advice.

[EnigmaXOXO]

I'm with BlueChocolate.

 

You were married to an immature, neurotic, emotional head case. Thank her, for me, for representing our female gender so well.

 

Let's see...she couldn't pin the blame on you. She couldn't pin the blame on the guys she was boinking on the sly. She certainly wasn't going to accept blame herself unless she could blame it on some feigned mental illness.

 

…Next she’ll be claiming demon possession and blaming you for not calling in the pope himself to conduct the exorcism.

 

And shame on you, for not being a clinically trained psychiatrist or her ordained personal savior.

 

Bad, bad husband!

 

So really, why are you still taking this crazy woman’s calls and driving yourself nuts trying to defend yourself to her? If she truly is ill, don’t you think it would be better to recommend she go see a trained professional?

[reggio]

I would say that you are best to get your personal life in order and forget what has happened, easy to say but necessary to do. You cannot be responsible for her actions and issues. She has lied and cheated before and always will.

 

Because you have children, it is imperative that you maintain a good connection with your ex. Let her know that it is important that the children are spared of the B.S. that comes with divorce.

 

Good luck!

[whatswrong23]

my ex tried the same crap and I had to tell him that we did not end things on good terms and he has no visitation rights and I have sole custody of our two kids. I told him to write them a letter or something and stop using them as an excuse to call me and complain about stupid s***. So I told his butt to go get him a male or female friend and leave me the heck out of his mangled crappy life (cheated on me, doesn't want girlfriend who is now pregnant before we even got divorced because she is poor, and she is bothering his new girlfriend who looks like she is going to smart enough to get rid of him early!) So just remember all the crap she gave you and how when YOU wanted to be her friend, she didn't want you to be but now that its OVER you are supposed to do what she wants? Haven't you had enough of letting her do what she wants? Try doing what YOU WANT for a change....worked wonders for me!

[oscaroc]

Reservoir,

 

Good movie by the way. I am in the same boat as you and i have a kid so it is hard to maintain no contact. My wife calls me up to push my buttons, like i am sure yours does. The reason she does that is because it justifies her actions of leaving me she wants me to get upset and yell. It makes her feel better about what she is doing therefore placing the blame on me in her eyes. I think your ex is definetly trying to place blame on you. Also she is very wishy washy one moment she hates me and doesn't want to spend the rest of her life with me and the next she is wanting me back it is very hard to make any progress in healing with that nonsense going on. Get this she says that our relationship was a rebound from the man she was with before me if so why did we have a kid two years later??? Don't let your ex drag you down with her man you have to stay strong.

 

She wanted more freedom and independance yet she calls me up to ask me how to pay bills and hook up our computer. The minute she realizes that you are over her or are getting on with your life it will drive her mad. And that is when you will have to be your stongest and know what you want. That is where I am at I have to decide what is best for me right now.

 

At least your ex admits she is sick i am positive mine is bipolar but she will not admit or get help for it. And i am the one that tried to get her to a marriage counselor it didn't work. She knew that the counselor would break her open and tell her what was wrong. I like brashgirls advice I am going to apply it to my situation as well.

 

Is your ex a dependant person? Did you help her a lot with getting her life back in check when you met?

[Matilda]

As far as your original post goes, that's just B.S. on her part. If she couldn't even recognize she was sick, how were you supposed to?

 

I have an ex-husband, and we have a child together. He is a bit crazy, and when we were first divorced we fought quite a bit. (We've been divorced over 10 years now.) I didn't want to have an acrimonious relationship with him, because I knew what it would do to our child. I had grown up in a divorced home, and my parents didn't speak to each other, and still don't. I love both my parents, and want them to be a part of my life and my children's lives, so it makes it so hard at family occasions.

 

Anyway, I decided that this is not what I wanted for my child. I really had a hard time letting go of my anger towards my first husband, he was abusive to me and just generally not a very good person as far as I was concerned. (I really have no idea why I married him in the first place!) However, he has always been good to our child and cares about her, etc. I wound up going to counseling a couple of times to learn how to deal with my anger towards him.

 

Basically, now I just don't let him get to me. I do talk to him on the phone, and he tells me about stuff going on his life, and I sort of listen and say "uh-huh" now and then. And then I hang up the phone and tell my current husband about the idiotic things he said this week. But, I am always cordial to his face, not matter what he says. And I try to never, ever, say anything bad about him in front of our child.

 

Now, I realize that things are too raw between you and your ex, for you to do that yet, but you should start trying. I think you should continue to talk to her in a friendly way, but make it clear to her that you are not going to discuss your past relationship. If it is truly done for you, then don't talk about it with her. You may want to talk to a counselor about it, if you have some issues you need to deal with, but don't talk about it with her, ever.

 

Try not to let her bait you. Simply tell her that you are not willing to rehash old problems anymore, it is bad for the children, and you have no intentions of getting back together with her. You need to think up some pat phrase to say, so if she starts to get mad, you can calmly say it. Once she realizes that she can't push your buttons anymore, she will stop. It may get worse before it gets better, but it will stop, because she's not getting whatever charge she gets out of making you mad.

 

It was really hard for me, to realize that all the things that my ex said to make me mad, were just not worth getting upset about, and that I didn't have to defend myself to him. I was only hurting myself by doing that. I don't care what he thinks about our marriage anymore. I do care that he thinks well enough of me that we can be in the same room at the same time while being civil to each other. At some point, you just have to say, it's done. But you still need to be friendly for the kids. This isn't easy, and counseling may help you to figure it out.

[onlyhuman]

Classic externalization.

 

Work on your self at this time, you are the one who will get your family through.

 

Just reading your post you are hurt and very angry.

Being hurt takes time to heal, angry control is something you can start dealing with now. Being less angry(try to stop swearing) will allow you to think clearer and ultimately get you through this faster.

 

I posted my story as"Future Divorced Man"

My greatest achievement has been looking at how I can improve myself.I'm working at self esteem, confidence and generally being happier through a better outlook on life. Trust me when I say it could be worse.

I am in councilling now for the above issues and I never once considered myself as anything but a lovable level headed guy.It truly is amazing on what you can improve.

I hope that you follow through on a lot of the good advice here and short term get some relief from your pain.

[reservoirdog1]

Onlyhuman... yeah, I agree the swearing didn't help. But seriously... I just lost it. She phoned back after I slammed the phone down and the fight continued, with me crying with rage. I'd never done that before. I've cried in emotional pain a lot in the last nine months, but never in anger. Very weird sensation... I didn't really realize that I was crying until it had already started.

[KirkCamp]

Sorry to hear what's going on. I was divorced after my ex went to a therapist who determined all of her problems were due to her being married and said "she should get a divorce right away" (I am guessing they didn't say that but thought I would show you I can relate). It sounds like a therapist who doesn't know the whole story has told her some things and she is trying to no take the full load on herself for this. If you talk, try to be objective, don't call her names since that's just not going to really help anyone at all and is kind of irresponsible to say to her considering that is a big flaw of hers that she is trying to correct somehow.

 

Work on yourself, set limits for what she can talk to you about, realize that she is not trying to intentionally hurt you, realize that she will have a hard time living with the consequences of her actions since they have hurt her deeply, remember that no matter what you do sometimes you are not the one who can solve a person's problems (only herself and God can) and pray for the woman if you are so inclined. you said she didn't "put her heart into therapy" - that was completely her decision, let that part go since you cannot speak for someone else's heart.

 

If it comes back to her blaming you, just say I'm sorry you feel that way but that is the past and if she'd like to remain friendly on some level with you for the present and / or future, you should probably work on the here and now. Easier said than done but really, don't enable her anger or blaming you for her sins (and make no mistake about it, they're sins). No idea if you are religous but even if you aren't, forgiveness might be tough but will help to heal your heart.