Do marriages really survive after an Affair?

[East7]

Mark the date down, boys and girls.

 

I don't often agree with CIK.

 

But on this, I do.

 

This is really a First one

 

CIK's posts always crack me up with her bluntness. BTW I bet she is still "friends" and talks to her OM .

 

But coming to the Topic, yeah me too, I think that "new marriage" theory is bull***. One can't re-write the past, you just learn to live with it period.

[confusedinkansas]

Yay Me! Thanks Owl. Yep I know we don't always (ok never ) see eye to eye. But that's why this forum works. We dont' have to agree with everyone's point of view.

 

East- Yes as a matter of fact, from time to time the X does email. That's about the extent of it. I used to ignore (because I NEEDED to) now I answer, we're cordial.....brief one liners like how are you, are hardly a blip in my life.

 

BUT, this is why (I believe) the NC is important up front. It helps someone to gain a whole new perspective on a person they once thought hung the moon.

But I digress...............

[woinlove]

I guess it is more of a baby boomer thing then? I know that there was a recent article on Gen Xers and many/most women not having children and divorces happening earlier than the 7 year itch. I think with women's financial independence, childbearing already being pushed off, divorce already being prevalent in our childhood, marriage becomes more of a stopping point than the end destination.

 

I think while most do like the idea of being married to one person for their whole lives it isn't something that remains the only choice. Even a few decades ago women were tied so much to men for financial reasons as well as divorce being a stigma that many just stayed put regardless of happiness. Happiness wasn't a primary factor in a marriage. After the late 60's/70's personal happiness and fullfillment became a much higher priority along with women's lib, employment opportunities, etc. Title VII in 64 was a major turning point for women as well as other groups to be able to be treated fairly in the workplace.

 

So now, with so many of those other factors at play, I think we will see younger generations not getting married, common law marriages, more like what is prevalent in other countries. Women's labels over the centuries, old maid, married, and widow are no longer a factor/importance. There aren't any stigmas or rewards for any of the marital statuses.

 

I'm not sure the stats are consistent with many people staying married because "it is the only choice". There is a large difference in the divorce rate depending on education, socioeconomic class and whether one is very young or mid twenties at time of marriage. This suggests to me that the people primarily staying married (college education, not poor, mid-20's by time of marriage) are not staying because they don't have as many options that the less educated, poorer, and younger do. Rather the opposite.

[Silly_Girl]

I'm not sure the stats are consistent with many people staying married because "it is the only choice". There is a large difference in the divorce rate depending on education, socioeconomic class and whether one is very young or mid twenties at time of marriage. This suggests to me that the people primarily staying married (college education, not poor, mid-20's by time of marriage) are not staying because they don't have as many options that the less educated, poorer, and younger do. Rather the opposite.

 

Perhaps there are differing levels of peer pressure/familial expectations contained within that might make specific choices much more difficult.

[Got it]

I'm not sure the stats are consistent with many people staying married because "it is the only choice". There is a large difference in the divorce rate depending on education, socioeconomic class and whether one is very young or mid twenties at time of marriage. This suggests to me that the people primarily staying married (college education, not poor, mid-20's by time of marriage) are not staying because they don't have as many options that the less educated, poorer, and younger do. Rather the opposite.

 

Though my parents are the exact example of "college educated, not poor, mid-20's when married". Both have secondary degrees, middle class and mid 20's when married, late 20's and early 30's childbearing years.

 

Eh, some many reasons why people stay together though I absolutely believe that seeing the children every day is a major motivating factor for both sexes when considering divorce.

[JaneyAmazed]

My Opinion - I think the Old Marriage / New Marriage crap is a bunch of ..... well crap, hooie!!

 

The marriage is what the marriage is. You have a past together so 'starting a NEW marriage' is IMPOSSIBLE. There's baggage, there's all the stuff that brought you to the place you're in when the affair happened & after it's over.

It's all still there.

It's just how you choose to deal with it after the fact that makes one marriage work & another one not.

 

I agree with this. Infedelity does a lot of damage, but the wounds can heal and the marriage can be restored. Actually, it helps my H and me to talk about our years together and all the good times we've had. I still understand the other point of view. My mom always said her marriage ended when my dad cheated. She didn't find out until 15 years later so she doesn't consider those 15 years a marriage. Everyone is different.

[Elizabeth Southerns]

But, if there is the hard work of IC, MC, true remorse, total transparency and disclosure of all the details the BS asks for, that stat rises to 84%.

 

How can the BS know if they're getting ALL the details? Surely only the WS can know if they've disclosed everything, or held back / minimised / downplayed / altered anything in the disclosure?

[Elizabeth Southerns]

I think many marriages follow a similar path, as divorcing after the kids leave is one of the most frequent times to divorce.

 

My parents did this too, and it was quite common at the time. "Empty nesters" suddenly find all those convenient distractions (kids, etc) removed and have to face dealing with each other, and realise they don't really like each other, and so trot off to the D courts.

 

It's like January being the most common month for Ds to be filed in the UK. Spouses are forced together for the "festive season" and can no longer hide away at work or elsewhere, but are stuck in a claustrophobic situation (especially in the UK where christmas time is midwinter, so escaping outdoors is limited) with their (sometimes extended) families and they realise, this is not how they can see themselves spending the rest of their lives. So come Jan, they file for D.

[confusedinkansas]

How can the BS know if they're getting ALL the details? Surely only the WS can know if they've disclosed everything, or held back / minimised / downplayed / altered anything in the disclosure?

 

This is where trust must come back into play.

IF you have decided to stay with your spouse after something like this then you BOTH have to do the work to make it happen.

 

This brings up another thought & 'battle' I've gotten into here in LS.

WS's that make the concious decision to stay in a marriage after infidelity (or whatever else) & then biatch & moan for 20 years that they stayed.

Woah is me....how will I ever trust again. Well for crying out loud you either decide you will or you don't & you get out.

OR hold the infidelity over their husband or wife's head for the rest of your life.

It's not simple, but it is a matter of making a decision & either doing it - or not. You can't play the "Woah Is Me" card for the rest of your life. That's just pathetic.

[Got it]

Along these lines, is full disclosure essential to reconciliation? Is it a mandatory necessity to be able to forgive, trust, and accept/move on?

 

Since we all know that perception colors reality, (Why there is so much subjectivity in police eye witnesses and the issues that have come up with having them recall events and observations) does one actually ever get the "unvarnished truth"?

 

We all know the saying about a fight; there is her version, his version and then the truth. So based on that, is there ever full disclosure? And is that necessary? What does one need (and this I am sure is a subjective thing) to be able to forgive, trust and accept?

[norajane]

Along these lines, is full disclosure essential to reconciliation? Is it a mandatory necessity to be able to forgive, trust, and accept/move on?

 

Since we all know that perception colors reality, (Why there is so much subjectivity in police eye witnesses and the issues that have come up with having them recall events and observations) does one actually ever get the "unvarnished truth"?

 

We all know the saying about a fight; there is her version, his version and then the truth. So based on that, is there ever full disclosure? And is that necessary? What does one need (and this I am sure is a subjective thing) to be able to forgive, trust and accept?

 

I'd say it is more important that the WS demonstrate a willingness to disclose fully - providing information without the BS feeling like they are pulling teeth, answering questions without an intent to continue deceiving even if it makes them look bad or makes the situation appear worse. If the BS is shifty with their answers, or tries to hold back, or is continuing to lie, there cannot be a reconciliation.

 

The BS needs to know that the WS isn't trying to hide stuff anymore and wants to be as honest as possible with their spouse, more than needing to know the full and exact details, I think. It is the deception and lies that are more damaging than details.

[carhill]

Of the M's I'm personally aware of the 'results', two have resulted in divorce, though not immediately, meaning the M continued for a number of years, and one continues. In two cases, one on each side of the continuation fence, both partners had affairs. In one case, where divorce resulted, one partner had multiple affairs.

 

My personal experiences are with MW's. My own M did not survive my EA. IMO, for a M to survive in a healthy way, it must become a completely new M, based on a healthy connection, acceptance of the past, and a shared vision of the future. If the partners are compatible and there is love, IMO there's an excellent chance of survival. If other, other. A tangential component to survival, whether temporary or permanent, that I've seen is the wherewithall to support the process; IOW, if there's enough money to throw at the problem, that can help.

 

In my case, regarding disclosure, it was immediate and complete, once I realized my feelings had been redirected from the M. That occurred directly after first meeting. After that point, there was total transparency. There's no doubt my exW didn't like it, but it was there, out in the open.

[herenow]

My Opinion - I think the Old Marriage / New Marriage crap is a bunch of ..... well crap, hooie!!

 

The marriage is what the marriage is. You have a past together so 'starting a NEW marriage' is IMPOSSIBLE. There's baggage, there's all the stuff that brought you to the place you're in when the affair happened & after it's over.

It's all still there.

It's just how you choose to deal with it after the fact that makes one marriage work & another one not.

 

Maybe I don't have a "new" marriage, but I certainly have a different marriage. And I definitely would not want my "old" or pre-affair marriage now.

 

I agree that all the old baggage is there. But not all that baggage is bad. IMO, when the good stuff outweighs the bad, a marriage has a good chance to survive.

 

It takes both people to take a good look at themselves first. It takes work and willingness to accept that both are responsible for the heath of the marriage.

 

There may be those who stay together and things don't change. But then there are those who make significant life changes to build a stronger, happier and healthier marriage. Call old and/or new. Call it successful or not. No matter what you call it, it's not the same as it was before.

[JaneyAmazed]

Maybe I don't have a "new" marriage, but I certainly have a different marriage. And I definitely would not want my "old" or pre-affair marriage now.

 

I agree that all the old baggage is there. But not all that baggage is bad. IMO, when the good stuff outweighs the bad, a marriage has a good chance to survive.

 

It takes both people to take a good look at themselves first. It takes work and willingness to accept that both are responsible for the heath of the marriage.

 

There may be those who stay together and things don't change. But then there are those who make significant life changes to build a stronger, happier and healthier marriage. Call old and/or new. Call it successful or not. No matter what you call it, it's not the same as it was before.

 

Well said! You hit the nail on the head when you when the good stuff outweighs the bad, the marriage has a good chance to survive. The key is to really appreciate and recognize the good. The more that my H and I build each other up rather than criticize and blame, the closer we get and the happier we get. If I felt like the bad outweighed the good, I'd have little hope in our future together. I don't feel that way at all.

[KathyM]

This is where trust must come back into play.

IF you have decided to stay with your spouse after something like this then you BOTH have to do the work to make it happen.

 

This brings up another thought & 'battle' I've gotten into here in LS.

WS's that make the concious decision to stay in a marriage after infidelity (or whatever else) & then biatch & moan for 20 years that they stayed.

Woah is me....how will I ever trust again. Well for crying out loud you either decide you will or you don't & you get out.

OR hold the infidelity over their husband or wife's head for the rest of your life.

It's not simple, but it is a matter of making a decision & either doing it - or not. You can't play the "Woah Is Me" card for the rest of your life. That's just pathetic.

It doesn't really work that way for the BS to just decide to trust again. Once the trust is broken, it takes a lot of time and effort, usually a period of years, before the BS feels safe enough to trust their spouse again. I don't believe trust can ever be completely restored, once it is broken. There will always be that pain and that scar, and that flicker of doubt of whether it may happen again sometime down the road. And it takes a long period of trustworthy behavior and openness on the part of the WS before there can be any semblance of trust restored.

[katielee]

Do you think there's a difference in reconciling if the MM/MW is caught verses confesses?

[KathyM]

Do you think there's a difference in reconciling if the MM/MW is caught verses confesses?

I believe there's a difference. Confessing, IMO, shows remorse. The WS is feeling guilty, and is remorseful, so his conscience compels him to confess in order to make their relationship right again. I think that goes a long way to restore faith in a spouse. On the other side of the coin, the guy that wants to continue unfaithful behavior and is only stopped because the spouse found out is much more difficult to rebuild trust with, and his remorsefulness is in question. He may show remorse, but it's questionable how sincere it is. He may just be sorry that he got caught, and he would have continued the behavior had he not been caught. Very hard to trust someone again in that situation. A lot harder than if he confesses to it on his own.

[reboot]

The "old marriage/new marriage" is metaphorical, not physical. Of course you don't celebrate d-day as your wedding anniversary. C'mon.

[confusedinkansas]

It doesn't really work that way for the BS to just decide to trust again. Once the trust is broken, it takes a lot of time and effort, usually a period of years, before the BS feels safe enough to trust their spouse again. I don't believe trust can ever be completely restored, once it is broken. There will always be that pain and that scar, and that flicker of doubt of whether it may happen again sometime down the road. And it takes a long period of trustworthy behavior and openness on the part of the WS before there can be any semblance of trust restored.

 

I completely agree. I also realize it's a longer road for some than for others. What I'm referring to is those that whine, moan, kick & scream the WHOLE WAY!

 

If you're going to decide to do something, for instance, go to a family function you don't want to go to. You DECIDE to go. You GO. You moan & gripe the whole time you're there. What's the point. Why go in the first place if that's how your behavior is going to be.

 

Same in this scenario. IF you & your partner make a concious decision to BE in & STAY in the marriage - Don't complain about it the whole time. That's only going to delay your reconciliation. Do what needs to be done. Yes along the way you'll still have some feelings where you think you shouldn't trust.

My husband & I have a much better marriage than we had 10 years ago - & because of what he did I still have moments where I don't trust. (he may have those too but we don't talk about that anymore) I don't let them rule my life.

Because deep down I know what we have is better TOGETHER than apart.

 

As another one mentioned - the good most definitealy outweighs the bad.

[donnamaybe]

How can the BS know if they're getting ALL the details? Surely only the WS can know if they've disclosed everything, or held back / minimised / downplayed / altered anything in the disclosure?

Yet when an OW/OM claims their MM/MW never lies to them, it's assumed to be a fact. Hmmm....

[thomasb]

Yet when an OW/OM claims their MM/MW never lies to them, it's assumed to be a fact. Hmmm....

 

I caught that too, Donna. Just laughed and shook my head at the irony of the statement.