Hubby doesn't care if I have sex with someone else

[HokeyReligions]

Most know my situation. Hubby still lives with me because of his disability and our finances. We have been going to marriage counseling. Hubby wanted to try to establish a sexual relationship again (no sex in 14 years).

 

We are still going thru with the divorce. We are still going to counseling. We tried to be intimate, but its just not happening. I just don't feel about him the way I used to, and he said he feels it is forced and doesn't really care about it either. Part of that may be because I'm past menopause and he's diabetic now but it does still have impact.

 

I left a job some years ago because there was a man (Dave) who was interested in me and I had an opportunity to have an affair. (I did not - but after Dave actually made a pass at me, we talked and cleared some things up between us, but I needed to leave) Anyway, Dave knew about the situation with my husband (no sex) but he didn't want to break up a marriage and family. I met him a few months before my daughter died when I started working at that job. Because it was so uncomfortable there I found a new job and left. I thought that was the most respectful thing to do for my husband and I needed to show him that of course he came first to me. He did not ask me to quit.

 

Okay. It's now some years later. Dave has graduated from college (yes, he is a younger man!) and moved to california. Both my kids are gone and my marriage is probably ending. My husband and I will always maintain a bond and we are friends. I don't love him like I should love a husband, but I do love him and can't imagine him not being a part of my life in some way. Hubby says he still loves me and wants the marriage to work, but he also is beginning to think its a lost cause.

 

Dave called me. He would like me to come out to california. He said for a visit at first, but he strongly hinted that he would like me to move there sometime so we can build a relationship. That does have a certain appeal to me. I like Dave a lot. We have fun together and we have been supportive of each other. Plus, he's not too far from my favorite place on earch -- San Francisco. I could stay with him while I look for a job and my own place. I'm not going to -- I have my mother and my dogs to think about. But if I didn't have them I would seriously consider this. Especially after what my husband said last night.

 

Last night: I told hubby that Dave called and wanted me to come for a visit. I asked him how he would feel about that. He thought it was a little bit tacky of Dave to ask a married woman to come and visit.

 

I asked hubby, point blank, how he would feel if I had sex with someone else - like Dave?

 

He paused, thought it over for a moment and said "if it makes you happy - go ahead. I want you to be happy"

 

Hmm. The "I want you to be happy" is a key phrase he learned and uses as a defense mechanism. It's not that sincere and we both know it.

 

I asked him if it would bother him in any way at all to know that his wife was out screwing someone else. He said "I don't know. I guess not if it would make you happy. I wouldn't do that to you" and it was all said in a low-key, casual conversational voice.

 

Even with everything that is going on in my life, I think that was a crappy thing to say and I was a little disappointed that he didn't say "Absolutly NOT! You are MY wife and we are still working on the marriage. How could you even consider this!" and get mad at me! It might have been a tad crappy of me to say anything -- but he knows I quit that job because of Dave and because I valued our marriage and he knows that I am always honest with him. Something he has not always been with me.

 

My emotional state as it pertains to my husband is not what I would call in the "normal" range. I sometimes still question whether I *should* feel a certain way, or what might be the *proper* response to things. These are things we are dealing with in therapy and I know that feelings are OK there is no right or wrong. It's all self-doubt issues.

 

But I'm wondering. How would you feel if your husband - who claims to still want to save the marriage - said it was okay to have sex with someone else if it made you happy?

 

I just want your thoughts or your interpretations on the situation. Thank you

[Matilda]

I guess I'm a little confused about the state of things between you. This is what you said:

 

"We are still going thru with the divorce."

"We are still going to counseling."

"We tried to be intimate, but its just not happening."

"How would you feel if your husband - who claims to still want to save the marriage - said it was okay to have sex with someone else if it made you happy?"

 

Okay, so you are getting a divorce, right, so why are still going to counseling? And if you tried to be intimate and you don't feel it can happen, then why is it that you are concerned about what he thinks about you sleeping with someone else. I assume that when you are divorced, you will sleep with other people, at least eventually.

 

Obviously, I don't know the whole story, but it seems like you are saying I don't want to have sex with him, but I want him to not want me to have sex with anyone else. And I guess, I wonder what the purpose of that is? If he had said, "No, I never want to think about you sleeping with anyone else!" Would that change your thoughts about being intimate with him? Would it make you reconsider divorce?

 

I really don't think he was being honest with you when he said "if it makes you happy- go ahead". I think he was either, trying to hide how hurt he really was that you even asked him that, or he was trying to say what he thought you wanted to hear.

 

I guess my question for you is, what does it really matter what he thinks about it, if you are getting a divorce anyway, and you have no plans to be intimate with him?

[Pyrannaste]

Hokey, my bet is also that your husband was not being sincere.

 

I echo matilda's thoughts:

 

I really don't think he was being honest with you when he said "if it makes you happy- go ahead". I think he was either, trying to hide how hurt he really was that you even asked him that, or he was trying to say what he thought you wanted to hear.

 

It is possible that he is feeling very bad and worried about it.

 

He probably did not told you not to ever dream about it not to sound/be selfish. And I think it is true he'd want to see you happy, even if at his (emotional) expenses.

 

I was a little disappointed that he didn't say "Absolutly NOT! You are MY wife and we are still working on the marriage. How could you even consider this!" and get mad at me!

 

Please tell him this. :)

I bet he'll confess that this is what he thought but not dared/wanted/felt it was right to say and he'll feel *very* relieved.

[EnigmaXOXO]

Hoke, I’d be wierded out.

 

In some ways I can understand why his being so passive might frustrate you. I was feeling the same way before my ex-husband and I finally split. Sometimes, depending on the delivery, “Whatever makes you happy” can sound a whole lot like; “I could care less one way or another.”

 

The question I would be asking myself (and have) is if I could remain in a relationship that lacked affection and physical intimacy. While I cared for and loved my husband, it turned more into a sister/brother kind of relationship than a marriage. I suppose that sort of arrangement would have been fine if I were much older and could happily live without physical affection. But I haven’t reached that stage in my life yet.

 

Like you, when we tried, it just wasn’t there. It almost felt like I was having sex with my brother (as strange as that may sound). Can you relate?

 

I often wonder if this is a common occurrence when one or the other spouse must resume the role of primary “caretaker” in the relationship. Whether because of physical/mental illness, or chemical dependency, when the balance is shifted onto the shoulders of one partner, it seems the dynamics of that entire relationship also changes. It no longer feels like a ‘partnership,’ but rather a noble obligation. While we can naturally assume the parental role with our children, it begins to feel awkward and unnatural when we have to resume the same role with our spouse.

 

For us, we agreed that it would be better to part ways. It was a gradual “weaning” of our co-dependency and certainly didn’t happen over night. Like you, we were legally separated for two years before concluding the final divorce. Fortunately, we didn’t have to cohabitate during this time (although he did move right next door). I think that continuing to live under the same roof would have made it even more difficult in the end for us to deal with the reality of living our lives separate and independent of each other. We would have just slipped back into our old comfortable (yet miserable) roles.

 

In the end, Hoke, no matter what happens, I think you will be able to look back with the utmost of confidence knowing that you had given it your very best effort. There will be no stone left unturned, no questions left unanswered and most importantly…no regrets. I think that’s exactly what this process is all about, and why councilors and therapists are worth their weight in gold.

 

I hope one day soon you will finally find the peace and happiness you so deserve. It’s long overdue. And more importantly, I hope one day you will find someone who will be able to support you for a change. It’s a lonely place to be when you look for a strong shoulder to lean on, and the only one to be found is your own…

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by Matilda

Okay, so you are getting a divorce, right, so why are still going to counseling?

We've been together over 20 years. We didn't want to give up on that right away and the counseling is also to help us deal with the divorce without losing our friendship, especially since we will likely continue to occupy the same house. (He is disabled and cannot afford to live on his own - his disability would put him below the poverty level) We may even decide to work through this and get back together as a couple at some time.

 

And if you tried to be intimate and you don't feel it can happen, then why is it that you are concerned about what he thinks about you sleeping with someone else. I assume that when you are divorced, you will sleep with other people, at least eventually.

I probably won't sleep with anyone. I haven't had sex in 14 years and I no longer really desire it. I mean, I'm not going to get a divorce and then go and have sex because I'm lonely. I'm used to not having sex. As for being really concerned about how he feels, I don't want to hurt him. If he is honest in his response, then he won't be hurt by my going on vacation with Dave. If he is not honest about his feelings and is lying--well, that's what he gets for lying to me.

 

Obviously, I don't know the whole story, but it seems like you are saying I don't want to have sex with him, but I want him to not want me to have sex with anyone else. And I guess, I wonder what the purpose of that is? If he had said, "No, I never want to think about you sleeping with anyone else!" Would that change your thoughts about being intimate with him? Would it make you reconsider divorce?

Kind of yes, kind of no. I want him to care. I want it to make a difference to him. Why? Because I would like to think that he still had some friendly feelings for me. If he were to go out and have sex with someone it would upset me for two reasons: (1) HE is the one that ended the sexual relations between us for reasons even he does not understand and that would be like a slap in the face, but I would get over that pretty quick. (2) I want him to be happy and be SAFE and I would be afraid that he would be hurt, even though its not my responsibility to 'protect' him, I don't want to see him hurt.

 

I really don't think he was being honest with you when he said "if it makes you happy- go ahead". I think he was either, trying to hide how hurt he really was that you even asked him that, or he was trying to say what he thought you wanted to hear.

I wish that I could believe this. Its easier for me to believe that he really doesn't care then it is for me to believe that he is hiding his feelings. That says a lot for our marriage!

 

I guess my question for you is, what does it really matter what he thinks about it, if you are getting a divorce anyway, and you have no plans to be intimate with him?

Oh, it doesn't matter. I just was asking for some feedback on the situation.

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by Pyrannaste

Please tell him this. :)

I bet he'll confess that this is what he thought but not dared/wanted/felt it was right to say and he'll feel *very* relieved.

I did tell him/ask him. I really think he is sincere when he says he "if it makes you happy" which translates to "whatever" in our relationship!

[magda]

I dunno... if you fully expected him to be hurt about it, then why did you ask?

 

You ask how we would feel if our husband did that... well, how should someone feel if their *wife* asked that? It goes both ways.. I don't know your situation but it seems like what you describe was you trying to hurt him and him reacting that way to hurt you.

[HokeyReligions]

EnigmaXOXO:

 

I think I'm just going to print out your post and laminate it and keep it in front of me!!!!! Thank You

 

 

I understand perfectly about the brother/sister thing. I LOVE my husband, but more like a brother. I've all but forgotten what loving a man feels like!

 

it turned more into a sister/brother kind of relationship than a marriage. I suppose that sort of arrangement would have been fine if I were much older and could happily live without physical affection. But I haven’t reached that stage in my life yet.

 

I learned to live without the affection. I was in my 20's for cryin' out loud, when the sex practically stopped! We had not even moved in together when I threw away my birth control pills and said "why bother, we never have sex anymore" and he just quietly agreed and continued to watch TV. No explanation, apology or anything. And I STILL married him because I loved him. He did keep promising that it would change for us. It did, but not in the direction I had hoped. Its a wonder I had two kids. My daughter was conceived before we were married but after we moved into our first apartment. Our son was conceived on the ONE NIGHT that YEAR that we had sex!

 

It is difficult to cohabitate during all of this. But I don't want to lose my house--not when my disabled mother lives with us and I have five dogs. I can't lose my dogs because honestly, they are all that I have to hold onto and they are all that I want. I could not afford a house on my own (probably couldn't get financing with my job history in recent years!) But that is why we go to counseling and why we still try to do things together that involves fun and not duty. We need to stay friends and support each other like friends. It IS a weird situation. But hey, at least no one could ever say my life was boring!

 

I don't think I will ever have another relationship. Even with Dave. I feel way too old for that. It was a fun fantasy and a flirt, but in reality it just ain't going to happen!

 

I want to want sex, but I don't. Know what I mean? I feel like I should have desires and I almost do, but then they just fizzle when I think of the mechanics of 'sexual fulfillment' --- its too much work!

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by magda

I dunno... if you fully expected him to be hurt about it, then why did you ask?

 

You ask how we would feel if our husband did that... well, how should someone feel if their *wife* asked that? It goes both ways.. I don't know your situation but it seems like what you describe was you trying to hurt him and him reacting that way to hurt you.

 

I did not expect him to be hurt. I expected him to not care, but I was kind of hoping he might care a little. Hope never dies does it?

 

If he asked me the same thing--say about his old gf, Karen, I probably would have reacted the same way and added, "just do it somewhere else, don't bring her here and don't give me details. You denied me for 14+ years and frankly I don't want to know"

 

yes, I CAN be spiteful!

[magda]

The "I want you to be happy" is a key phrase he learned and uses as a defense mechanism. It's not that sincere and we both know it.

Well, that does sound like caring a *little*.

 

Think about it this way... he's doing the right thing. Because as you say, he hasn't given you sex for 14 years. If he were to get upset about this - even if under the excuse that he's concerned for your well-being - it isn't fair for him to hold a mature adult captive. And if he'd responded with more "caring" I am betting you'd still be able to find something negative to say. Such as "well you're not giving me anything," etc.

 

I understand why you feel the way you do... emotions are never very logical, are they?

[EnigmaXOXO]

I don't think I will ever have another relationship. Even with Dave. I feel way too old for that. It was a fun fantasy and a flirt, but in reality it just ain't going to happen!

 

I want to want sex, but I don't. Know what I mean? I feel like I should have desires and I almost do, but then they just fizzle when I think of the mechanics of 'sexual fulfillment' --- its too much work!

 

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah...

 

All the same things I said and thought. And when I least wanted it...'It' found me.

 

You'd be surprised at how quickly that spark can reignite when the right person comes along. Sweetie, you haven't lost it...you've just buried it for so long, you forgot you even had it. And when Cybil is finally set free, you’ll have a hard time restraining yourself from wearing him out!

 

For a time, you'll even feel uncomfortable with affection because you've learned to survive so long without it. If someone embraces you too long, you'll stiffen up without even realizing it, even feel Closter phobic and smothered until you’ve grown use to it and learn that this is what it means to feel ‘safe.’

 

We seldom ‘miss’ what we’ve never had.

 

In the beginning, you may even have trouble establishing your 'role' in a relationship that doesn't require that you play martyr or take on great sacrifice. If you’ve never been in a healthy relationship, it’s hard to even recognize or appreciate one even if it bites you on the ars.

 

Or…like me, you’ll say to yourself, “d*mn, what did I do to deserve being so happy? I didn’t have to even work very hard to earn this one!” Then you’ll be constantly looking over your shoulder waiting for that malevolent being to yank it all out from under you proclaiming: “Ha Ha! Just Kidding!”

 

Let me tell ya, Hoke. Sometimes you never even realize what you’re missing or how unhappy you really are (or were) until you’ve been lucky enough to experience what you never had. And once you find it, you never want to go back.

 

Worse yet, you’ll wonder how on earth you ever survived it in the first place and actually be thankful that ignorance was bliss!! But I’ll tell ya what, BECAUSE of what you’ve been through and learned, you’ll make a better, stronger and more appreciative partner in the next relationship than someone who hasn’t yet ‘earned their stripes.’

 

Quote: No calm sea ever produced a good mariner.

[brashgal]

I think you are conflicted about how you feel about having sex as evidenced by how much you've talked about it lately, your avatar, etc. I think it seems like a lot of work to you because it is a lot of work when it comes to your husband. Maybe once you stop the struggle and the wondering it will happen. Or it won't. I think either way you will find a way to be happy Hokey, you just seem to be that kind of person.

[KirkCamp]

That is a really tough question but if I were your husband, ultimately even in the subconscious, I would be afraid of losing you and say o.k. to something that he thinks will make you happy. My stepfather has NF (neurofibramotosis) and I think what makes his marriage to my mom tough is that he feels he might not find anyone else which leads to resentment, passive aggressiveness, lashing out at other things, etc. They've been married almost 25 years and are still doing counseling so you're not alone in that way, just so you know .

 

Don't assume he doesn't care, you are obviously a smart person and I think you know the answer to that - you expect him to react when he thinks he may lose you if he does, or at least that's what it sounds like. Do right by your husband even if it means missing out on something physical - that's short term, means nothing compared to having someone you love know you are there for him in spite of his limitations even if it's not an intimate thing over time. As long as you both honestly work at it, I am sure you both can find ways to make what is probably his greatest fear be something he can deal with knowing you'll stick by him unconditionally. No idea how I would deal with things the same way but really, I would try to be a good Christian because the suffering you both have gone through now will help you out after this all ends and when sex isn't even an afterthought. Just my opinion, sometimes people don't want to look at things in a religious way.

 

I admire you for what you are doing with your husband and think that God looks upon you with a smile since so many of us would just say "not my problem" and let someone suffer. I cannot help but feel that if you do this with this Dave guy, you will always regret it and it will scar you somehow where you'll wish you had never given it a thought. Since I don't know the disability, is there anything yur husband can do for you in a sensual way, maybe somethign you haven't considered ? Just keep in midn with this guy Dave - a man who wants to be with you after knowing your situation is not a man at all - you might get along with him and he might be a friend but look at him honestly for what he is. Think slithering

[HokeyReligions]

What a day! Last night, out of the blue, Dave shows up on our doorstep & today I ended up having TWO job interviews. (Hubby knows Dave and we've all gone out in a group before and Dave's been over to the house to play board games, etc. so it's not like he's a stranger) He was in town visiting friends and family-----& ME!

 

Anyway, Dave & Hubby ended up playing on the computer together for hours and we all kicked back and had a nice time. Dave said he would love for me to come out to CA and visit and my husband said that he was a little bit uncomfortable with the idea (Dave understood) but that he saw how much I was enjoying myself being with MY friend (as opposed to spending time with hubby's friends) and that a vacation might do me a lot of good. They didn't talk about sex except to say that each or our sex lives was no one elses business. I asked my husband if he would have someone over while I was gone and he said "not with your mother here, besides I said I wouldn't do it here and I expect you to show the same respect." He was joking around.

 

As for the trip, I can't go anyway because of my job situation, but maybe someday I can get away for a quick weekend to San Francisco. Dave has never taken the tour of Alcatraz or gone to San Jose to see the Winchester house and I would love to take him there. I digress....

 

As for sex and intercourse--I'm sincerely not interested, but that doesn't mean I can't feel sensous or sexy. Romance does not equal sexual activity and a romantic evening does not have to culminate in intercourse. I did have a healthy relationship at one time with my husband. It wasn't always this way, we just changed so much over the decades. I do remember what it was like and I remember what I was like and I can't and do not want, to go back to the person I was then. But with my refound sensuality, I can talk more openly and joke and show more affection now.

 

You are right in that I hate to be touched, but that is just the way we were raised. I come from a very nondemonstrative family. Even when I saw my mother after having been apart for 5 years (mom & I are VERY close) we didn't hug or touch! We just don't do that in my family and my husband doesn't either. We were not that way with our kids either and they KNEW and FELT our love for them. Maybe that is why I was able to deal with the lack of sex. Now it's just too messy to think about. Wet and sweaty have absolutly NO appeal to me at all! But I'm comfortable joking about the wet spot now! (It was always on MY side of the bed too--that must be some innate thing with men, they make sure they don't have to sleep on the wet spot!)

 

Anyway, life is interesting and fun at the same times its stressful and disappointing.

 

And yes, I was honest with Dave and told him that I just was not interested in having a sexual relationship with him and that he would need to be able to separate romance and friendship from sex and he assured me he could (but he's young and still hormone-driven! and an absolute sweet heart of a guy. He will be a good catch for some lucky girl someday!