Is A Guy Liking Your Personality Really A Good Thing?

[Els]

I tend to adhere to this...

 

I personally find the value of inner beauty to unabashedly supersede any that a vessel could ever possibly hope to offer. But I come from a different place than you it seems... in that I've lamented and questioned men about only desiring me for my physique while not caring about anything else I can offer.

 

To be primarily desired for looks - something so generic - just doesn't appeal to me. I don't feel "security" within it either --- looks are indeed fleeting, they will inevitably grow weaker with time (not stronger, like character traits / abilities / etc.), and there will always be people who are physically more attractive based in some area that cannot be worked towards or rather shouldn't be, because tastes differ and change all over the place, etc.

 

Externally "beautiful" people are a dime a dozen as well - it's the focus of so many people, and it's easily replaceable (IMO). To find someone who encourages your talents, your inner strengths, your depths....... as opposed to your "looks", and someone who gets hot over what you contain regardless of how you appear --- is ideal, to me, anyway.

With that said, I would be more concerned with whether or not these men DO highly value external beauty. If they did in general, I definitely think I would be bothered and personally offended if I wasn't their type. They're not just going to suddenly change their values........... but a man who doesn't value it much one way or the other ------- whom finds a woman's personality to be the source of what primarily arouses him, well, that's yummy to me.

 

I think this is precisely it. I don't think men who don't really care about your external beauty would even bother to think that 'you are not his type' or that he 'isn't really attracted to your appearance', OP. I mean, it would not even have occurred to him at all, or at least not as a noteworthy point, because to him there would not HAVE been such a thing as being attracted to a girl purely for her appearance. If that makes sense.

 

I am a woman, but speaking for myself, appearance is only something you have to cross a minimal line, so that it does not matter at all. So, if I have an average-looking man who 'passes' (I know this sounds horrible, but hear me out), appearance goes out of the equation entirely, and whether he was average-looking or a veritable Jesus Luz does not matter. So I would be fully attracted to him, as long as he crosses the line, because of his personality and intelligence, (and I hate to say this, but Luz probably wouldn't excel in that department >.> So that would actually make him LESS desirable than the bf.)

Edited November 2, 2011 by Elswyth

[Emilia]

is = it.

 

I am stating that you're likely an anomaly to the correlation I've personally observed

 

That "good-looking" people tend to lack "substance"

 

(But your potential interest in an equally / superior good-looking partner is still perplexing, granted it is weighed against my own biased observations heh).

 

I.e, why the hell does anyone with great intelligence highly value appearance?! Perhaps my own weak area of comprehension is why I struggle to grasp this.

 

Yeah.

 

It's really simple. We are animals and enjoy having mind blowing sex with people we find attractive. Yes attraction is much more than skin deep but at the same time looks need to be there. It's a combination of attractiveness and personality.

 

The 'good looking people tend to lack substance' nonsense is old. Makes you sound bitter

[Els]

I.e, why the hell does anyone with great intelligence highly value appearance?! Perhaps my own weak area of comprehension is why I struggle to grasp this.

 

My experience has indeed been that the extremely intelligent people (assuming the conventional definition of intelligence) are more likely than others to prize a partner's intelligence over their appearance, and perhaps personality as well. Of course, there haven't been any randomized controlled trials , but this is just an observation of mine.

 

Of course, it certainly doesn't apply to everyone (I do know very intelligent people who also have appearance as top priority or on par with everything else). I don't personally believe this is so much a 'lack of substance' thing, as the fact that conventional intelligence is defined mainly by one's affinity towards purely logical and analytical thought processes. And, well, I guess the upholding of a trait that brings no actual benefit to the relationship or to oneself goes against such thought processes. Such is my hypothesis, anyway. Also, highly intelligent people usually recognize intelligence as a strength of theirs, are proud of it, and thus seek it in a mate. Again, this is not a 'better' issue; I don't believe people who don't value appearance as much as others are 'better', necessarily. They're just more compatible with me.

[Els]

Sure, but you are the exception not the rule.

 

HS - I was on both the football team and the mathletes ( yes I know it is lame, but that is what the math club is called in Illinois) and let me tell you the guys on the football team were getting the cute cheerleaders while the the intelligent guys, the guys with good personalities were getting busy with their TI 92 calculators.. Even the the nerdy girls in mathletes wanted the football players ..

 

I went to an elite engineering school for undergrad while one of my best friends was a business major who joined a frat. Guess what frat guys get about 10x as many chicks while the engineering guys sit in a dark basement programming that week's homework. I wonder why the pretty blondes were not interested in the engineering guy's personalities?

 

Are you certain that those engineering guys were even interested in the fellow engineering girls, and not seeing them as secondary to the 'pretty blonde's? Because you mentioned the 'pretty cheerleaders/blondes' a helluva lot more than you did the engineering girls.

 

My experience, from being in a CompSci class, is that men of that nature simply don't talk to girls. Well, guess what, to be with a girl you need to talk to her. Not exactly rocket science. I have had perhaps 5 classmates try to strike up a conversation of substance with me in nearly a year.

 

And if you say they don't talk to me because I don't look like Megan Fox, well, you just proved my first point. In fact, now that you mention it, those guys really don't seem to talk very much at all, not even to other guys... It does not really bother me, as I have a bf and am not looking for one, but just stating the causality.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Elswyth

[Woggle]

The engineering students do better after college. I wish nerds would get the fact that life gets better after you get out in the world. The frat boys in many cases will eventually be losers who have lost all their looks because of how they abused their body and the nerds in many cases have grown into their looks and will do great in their love life if they pick a real woman instead of marrying the first gold digger who pops around after he starts making good money. The 30s are a real life revenge of the nerds for men and in many cases women as well.

 

Just because a woman physically looks good does not mean she is attractive to me so looks are not everything. There are female celebrities I used to have major crushes on but now they are ugly to me after certain things.

[aj22one]

Are you certain that those engineering guys were even interested in the fellow engineering girls, and not seeing them as secondary to the 'pretty blonde's? Because you mentioned the 'pretty cheerleaders/blondes' a helluva lot more than you did the engineering girls.

 

My experience, from being in a CompSci class, is that men of that nature simply don't talk to girls. Well, guess what, to be with a girl you need to talk to her. Not exactly rocket science. I have had perhaps 5 classmates try to strike up a conversation of substance with me in nearly a year.

 

And if you say they don't talk to me because I don't look like Megan Fox, well, you just proved my first point. In fact, now that you mention it, those guys really don't seem to talk very much at all, not even to other guys... It does not really bother me, as I have a bf and am not looking for one, but just stating the causality.

 

Are you sure you're not putting the cart before the horse here?

 

I remember during my shy days, and I would see women talking to guys all the time without the guy having to initiate a conversation. Occasionally I'd try to talk to some of those girls (or any girl in general) and I'd get curt responses. That kind of puts a damper on any confidence you've acquired when you're shy and inexperienced and kinda puts you in "fortress of solitude" mode.

 

As for me, I was never into blondes nor cheerleaders nor Megan Fox types. I prefer more diversity.

[Els]

Are you sure you're not putting the cart before the horse here?

 

I remember during my shy days, and I would see women talking to guys all the time without the guy having to initiate a conversation.

 

Mmm, fair enough. The poster I quoted was wondering why his engineering mates had 'less luck' with women than the business frat guys though, and taking that as proof that 'only the hot frat guys get women'. IME people who do highly analytical sciences such as engineering, physics, and compsci, are often quite different socially from people who do business. Simply put, a woman COULD talk to the men, but if they themselves are not initiating conversations, they are already lowering their chances. So that is a factor, not just the 'hot frat guy' part.

 

Occasionally I'd try to talk to some of those girls (or any girl in general) and I'd get curt responses. That kind of puts a damper on any confidence you've acquired when you're shy and inexperienced and kinda puts you in "fortress of solitude" mode.

 

Ugh, yeah, I know the feeling. I'm sorry those girls were so rude. Regardless, we can shift the blame around, but the fact remains that a man who rarely talks to women, rarely gets women. Pretty strong causality there, I would say. Not necessarily his fault, but something to think about.

 

As for me, I was never into blondes nor cheerleaders nor Megan Fox types. I prefer more diversity.

 

Good for you! I was just curious about the poster I quoted, since I have seen him mourn about how the 'hot chicks' had never liked him, but never once that a fellow engineering student had not.

[aj22one]

Mmm, fair enough. The poster I quoted was wondering why his engineering mates had 'less luck' with women than the business frat guys though, and taking that as proof that 'only the hot frat guys get women'. IME people who do highly analytical sciences such as engineering, physics, and compsci, are often quite different socially from people who do business. Simply put, a woman COULD talk to the men, but if they themselves are not initiating conversations, they are already lowering their chances. So that is a factor, not just the 'hot frat guy' part.

 

Yeah. I think it's quite complicated. It's a lot of issues, not just "frat guys" getting all the women or whatnot.

 

 

Ugh, yeah, I know the feeling. I'm sorry those girls were so rude. Regardless, we can shift the blame around, but the fact remains that a man who rarely talks to women, rarely gets women. Pretty strong causality there, I would say. Not necessarily his fault, but something to think about.

 

Yeah being social is important, and not just for dating. It helps when trying to make friends too. And I don't dwell too much on the rude girls, I've found myself a really nice gf. They missed out big time .

[Els]

Yeah. I think it's quite complicated. It's a lot of issues, not just "frat guys" getting all the women or whatnot.

 

 

 

 

Yeah being social is important, and not just for dating. It helps when trying to make friends too. And I don't dwell too much on the rude girls, I've found myself a really nice gf. They missed out big time .

 

Yeah, I feel the same way. IMO the key is finding someone who accepts us for who we are, and being willing to accept them for who THEY are is a key ingredient in finding that.

 

Social-wise, like many other sciencey people, I'm a little awkward too (if you watch BBT, I totally laughed when Leonard found an advertisement in the physics department on how to talk to girls, and asked, "Why are they posting that HERE??" :lmao:), so I feel some of the guys' pain, especially as men are still often expected to be the approachers. I do feel that some of them exacerbate their difficulties by expecting the girl to be the sort of person they are not, though.

[norajane]

Mmm, fair enough. The poster I quoted was wondering why his engineering mates had 'less luck' with women than the business frat guys though, and taking that as proof that 'only the hot frat guys get women'. IME people who do highly analytical sciences such as engineering, physics, and compsci, are often quite different socially from people who do business.

Yeah being social is important, and not just for dating. It helps when trying to make friends too.

 

I think being social is the key. There is simply more opportunity to meet a lot of people, talk to a lot of people, and connect with one of them if you are a social person.

 

For example, I went to Chicago, a non-party and barely-Greek school. However, I remember going to a lot of frat parties and meeting people, but I do not remember ever being invited to an engineering party or pre-med party or bio-sci party. (We did however have a snowy Winter festival on the quads complete with ice sculptures, good times, heh).

 

Fraternities and sororities are intended to be highly social and being social is one of the reasons people even join those groups. Odds of meeting people go up much higher than if you spend evenings watching Dr Who reruns in your room (although the tv lounge in the dorm can be a great place to meet like-minded people).

 

But this is all getting way far away from the topic of this thread.

[aj22one]

I think being social is the key. There is simply more opportunity to meet a lot of people, talk to a lot of people, and connect with one of them if you are a social person.

 

For example, I went to Chicago, a non-party and barely-Greek school. However, I remember going to a lot of frat parties and meeting people, but I do not remember ever being invited to an engineering party or pre-med party or bio-sci party. (We did however have a snowy Winter festival on the quads complete with ice sculptures, good times, heh).

 

Fraternities and sororities are intended to be highly social and being social is one of the reasons people even join those groups. Odds of meeting people go up much higher than if you spend evenings watching Dr Who reruns in your room (although the tv lounge in the dorm can be a great place to meet like-minded people).

 

But this is all getting way far away from the topic of this thread.

 

Well I went to a school where there were a few frats and sororities but not many and they were not a big presence on campus. It was a commuter school where everyone was always busy doing something (class, working, internships, sports, etc.) no one ever wanted to socialize, or at least they appeared that way. And even if they did there were plenty of things off campus where you could do that.

 

But, to tie this back to the thread, I have never been attracted to just a persons looks or just their personality. I've always been into the person, their personality, looks, intelligence are all a package deal. I mean I love my gf's personality, but I like her looks too. I don't know how one would separate those two in a relationship, and if you could I can't imagine that relationship lasting too long.

[Wolf18]

Actually Elswyth, it is about looks.

 

 

For some strange reason, at my school all the frats are made up of nerds! And trust me, despite being social, being in a frat doesn't get them laid. They're plenty social, but a shy good looking tall guy is always going to be more popular with women than a life of the party average looking guy. If you deny this you are just plain dishonest.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Wolf18

[Els]

Actually Elswyth, it is about looks.

 

 

For some strange reason, at my school all the frats are made up of nerds! And trust me, despite being social, being in a frat doesn't get them laid. They're plenty social, but a shy good looking tall guy is always going to be more popular with women than a life of the party average looking guy. If you deny this you are just plain dishonest.

 

Stating that there are other factors involved in ptp's complaint does not necessarily make the bolded untrue. As I did not go for the 'popular' guys, I really don't know if your statement is true or not. This really is not a gender thing, though, as from what I can tell, the 'good-looking model girl' variety seems every bit as 'popular' as the 'good-looking tall guy'.

[verhrzn]

Looks definitely matter, but like I've (and many other men in this poster's threads) has said, she isn't unattractive. She is actually hot.

 

She doesn't believe that, and she says that people dislike her because of her looks...which are fine...so obviously it's her personality that is driving these men away. Or, more specifically, her attitude and low self esteem!

 

Looks can get you in the door, but a sh*tty attitude can kick you right back out!

 

Except what you're claiming and what guys have actually said to me are completely opposite. Guys I've dated have told me, straight out, that my looks weren't great and they were dating me for my personality... and if my personality was the problem, and not my looks, then why do I never get hit on or flirted with by strangers? Sorry but your explanation just doesn't hold with logic and experience.

[verhrzn]

Actually Elswyth, it is about looks.

 

 

For some strange reason, at my school all the frats are made up of nerds! And trust me, despite being social, being in a frat doesn't get them laid. They're plenty social, but a shy good looking tall guy is always going to be more popular with women than a life of the party average looking guy. If you deny this you are just plain dishonest.

 

That's not even remotely true.

 

The last boyfriend I had was a nerd, and not conventionally good-looking (overweight, average height) but was super cheerful and out going, and girls LOVED him. He got another girlfriend within two months of breaking up with me. And the guy I dated after him was an overweight, very short (5'4") balding engineer, and he dumped me for not being attractive enough, and immediately started dating a girl who is easily an 8.

 

I work at an IT company, and while I'd classify most of the guys here at "cute," they aren't tall, they aren't muscular, and they all having the makings of programmers (pale, don't dress up, "nerd"-like.) Yet they are all married or engaged to incredibly attractive women.

 

Guys can get away with having less-than-desirable looks if they have either brains, personality, or money. Girls (as this thread can attest for) are not so lucky.

[aj22one]

Except what you're claiming and what guys have actually said to me are completely opposite. Guys I've dated have told me, straight out, that my looks weren't great and they were dating me for my personality... and if my personality was the problem, and not my looks, then why do I never get hit on or flirted with by strangers? Sorry but your explanation just doesn't hold with logic and experience.

 

Those guys sound rude, crass, and of poor character. Who would say that to a woman, especially one they wanted to date?

 

I'll say this again: looks and personality are a package deal. Most people are attracted to both in a partner not the two of them separately.

[Els]

That's not even remotely true.

 

The last boyfriend I had was a nerd, and not conventionally good-looking (overweight, average height) but was super cheerful and out going, and girls LOVED him. He got another girlfriend within two months of breaking up with me. And the guy I dated after him was an overweight, very short (5'4") balding engineer, and he dumped me for not being attractive enough, and immediately started dating a girl who is easily an 8.

 

I work at an IT company, and while I'd classify most of the guys here at "cute," they aren't tall, they aren't muscular, and they all having the makings of programmers (pale, don't dress up, "nerd"-like.) Yet they are all married or engaged to incredibly attractive women.

 

Guys can get away with having less-than-desirable looks if they have either brains, personality, or money. Girls (as this thread can attest for) are not so lucky.

 

I'm sorry that that has been your experience. I think it is true to a degree, but not to that which you have experienced. IMO there are other factors in it that you are discounting, you chose the men poorly or you just have really bad luck.

 

My experience, as I have stated, has been that there are guys for whom appearance is not a priority. Note that 'liking you for your personality, not appearance' is not applicable to the men who have 'dated you for your personality and then dumped you for an 8', because men who truly do not prioritize appearance don't do that. If indeed appearance was the reason you broke up, that is.

 

If my experience means anything to you, the guy I am currently with has had a (IMO) very beautiful girl wanting to be with him at the same time he was pursuing me. Yes, I did see it, for those who are wondering. This doesn't in itself prove anything about men in general, of course, simply that it can happen. However, IMO many women themselves are not interested in the sort of men who don't really care about appearance.

[PJKino]

Theyre needs to be a balance,if im not attracted to a girl on a pysical level at all i dont think care if shes mother teresa if i cant pitcure even making out with her or seeing her naked i cant enter a relationship with her

[somedude81]

That's not even remotely true.

 

The last boyfriend I had was a nerd, and not conventionally good-looking (overweight, average height) but was super cheerful and out going, and girls LOVED him. He got another girlfriend within two months of breaking up with me. And the guy I dated after him was an overweight, very short (5'4") balding engineer, and he dumped me for not being attractive enough, and immediately started dating a girl who is easily an 8. .

How the hell are these guys getting women?!?!?!?

 

That doesn't make any sense at all.

[tman666]

How the hell are these guys getting women?!?!?!?

 

That doesn't make any sense at all.

 

Confidence, charm, social skills, life balance, financial stability, education, etc...

[somedude81]

So how the hell can short, fat, balding nerdy guys be confident and have charm?

 

That's what I'm saying doesn't make sense.

 

I have all the rest of the things you listed and they don't count for anything.

[tman666]

So how the hell can short, fat, balding nerdy guys be confident and have charm?

 

They practice and persevere. Just like everyone else who ever got good at anything.

[Els]

So how the hell can short, fat, balding nerdy guys be confident and have charm?

 

That's what I'm saying doesn't make sense.

 

I have all the rest of the things you listed and they don't count for anything.

 

I'm only pointing out the superficial, but the guy in question was a working engineer. There are some women who consider that to be a rather large bonus over college student. That is not to say that the girl he is with, likes him for who he is or anything good, or even that that was the actual reason, but there are some women who function this way.

 

Meh, we all like what we like.

[Wolf18]

How the hell are these guys getting women?!?!?!?

 

That doesn't make any sense at all.

 

 

By being employed as engineers.

 

Money can trump all in the eyes of women.

 

I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing. What I know for sure is that a 5'4 balding nerd is going to be a virgin unless he gets a really good job.

[tman666]

By being employed as engineers.

 

Money can trump all in the eyes of women.

 

I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing. What I know for sure is that a 5'4 balding nerd is going to be a virgin unless he gets a really good job.

 

Meh... Don't kid yourself. Most engineers (I ought to know, I am one) aren't making the TONS of money that some people perceive as so. Sure, the job stability is good and the pay is definitely higher than average, but to say that it's an automatic shoe-in to affluence is false.