Wolf18 Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 So how the hell can short, fat, balding nerdy guys be confident and have charm? We all know a popular guy who is fat/short/ugly but are very charming and confident. I know one, he's my height (about 5'7-5'8), overweight, kind of effeminate, sickly pale and interning as a comedy writer with Conan O'Brien. Every party I've been to when he arrives the whole crowd erupts when he enters the room, he's like a mini celebrity. He's got loads of female "friends" that latch on to his popularity to get into some exclusive parties he gets invited to, but from what I know he doesn't **** any of them. Being charming and confident will surely improve the quality of your life, but on their own it's very rare that it's going to get you women on it's own merit. On the other hand, if you're a muscular guy whose 6'3 and has a square jaw, you can walk around with a frown on your face, be a humor less robot, and be borderline mute, and women will still seek you out (pay attention to these guys at parties and you will see the myth that women never approach quickly go out the window). The guy who scores the most is the guy whose charming and what women deem physically attractive.
Wolf18 Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Meh... Don't kid yourself. Most engineers (I ought to know, I am one) aren't making the TONS of money that some people perceive as so. Sure, the job stability is good and the pay is definitely higher than average, but to say that it's an automatic shoe-in to affluence is false. My father is an engineer and he isn't a millionaire, but he's making well above the average American salary. I'd say a typical engineer is making 70-80 a year. In this economy that's pretty good in the eyes of women looking to build their nest.
ptp Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Are you certain that those engineering guys were even interested in the fellow engineering girls, and not seeing them as secondary to the 'pretty blonde's? Because you mentioned the 'pretty cheerleaders/blondes' a helluva lot more than you did the engineering girls. Well maybe it is different where you live but in the US go to any elite Computer Science university and in those classes the guy to girl ratio is 10:1 or even 15:1 in certain classes. So the appropriate answer to your question is what engineering girls? My experience, from being in a CompSci class, is that men of that nature simply don't talk to girls. Well, guess what, to be with a girl you need to talk to her. Not exactly rocket science. I have had perhaps 5 classmates try to strike up a conversation of substance with me in nearly a year. And if you say they don't talk to me because I don't look like Megan Fox, well, you just proved my first point. In fact, now that you mention it, those guys really don't seem to talk very much at all, not even to other guys... It does not really bother me, as I have a bf and am not looking for one, but just stating the causality. I don't deny that computer scientists are often socially inept, but there are plenty of socially normal engineering guys, myself included. I am extrovert who can befriend most people and there are plenty more who are more sociable than me. However, it doesn't matter. When a girl isn't willing to give you an opportunity to show of your personality, it doesn't matter how good your personality is.
Author verhrzn Posted November 2, 2011 Author Posted November 2, 2011 We all know a popular guy who is fat/short/ugly but are very charming and confident. I know one, he's my height (about 5'7-5'8), overweight, kind of effeminate, sickly pale and interning as a comedy writer with Conan O'Brien. Every party I've been to when he arrives the whole crowd erupts when he enters the room, he's like a mini celebrity. He's got loads of female "friends" that latch on to his popularity to get into some exclusive parties he gets invited to, but from what I know he doesn't **** any of them. Being charming and confident will surely improve the quality of your life, but on their own it's very rare that it's going to get you women on it's own merit. On the other hand, if you're a muscular guy whose 6'3 and has a square jaw, you can walk around with a frown on your face, be a humor less robot, and be borderline mute, and women will still seek you out (pay attention to these guys at parties and you will see the myth that women never approach quickly go out the window). The guy who scores the most is the guy whose charming and what women deem physically attractive. What's damaging to your theory though, is that the guy I'm referring to was popular BEFORE he was an engineer... His friends would mention how in high school he had a different girl interested in him every other week. My ex-bf is NOT making the kind of money that would supposedly compensate for his looks; he's a data entry drone, and working at an IT company I make about twice as much as him. But, both of them are very well-liked. My ex, I think it's because he's just a very warm and likable guy. The engineer, he's just confident and has a very "take no sh*t" kind of attitude. Both of them are just happy and comfortable about themselves and their lives (on the surface, anyway), and I think that's what attracts girls. Coincidentally, both of them also have a TON of female friends... easily the majority. I suspect this may have something to do with it; they are used to girls, so don't act nervous/offensive/put-off like other guys I see that are less successful with dating. I'm not going to say looks are NEVER a factor but I find guys can overcome them with some effort towards their personality (or, for certain girls, their wallets.)
Wolf18 Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 So what is the missing variable then ? Does he have an enormous penis ? Sorry, even my 8 year old nephew knows there's a LOT more to attracting women than being warm and likable. I'm starting to think you're exagerrating or making up some of his features like him being bald, overweight, AND 5'4. There is no way a man like that is going to be popular with women unless he has a lot of money, I don't care how brilliant his personality is. Don't insult our intelligence.
Author verhrzn Posted November 2, 2011 Author Posted November 2, 2011 So what is the missing variable then ? Does he have an enormous penis ? Sorry, even my 8 year old nephew knows there's a LOT more to attracting women than being warm and likable. I'm starting to think you're exagerrating or making up some of his features like him being bald, overweight, AND 5'4. There is no way a man like that is going to be popular with women unless he has a lot of money, I don't care how brilliant his personality is. Don't insult our intelligence. It's amazing how often I'm branded a liar on these boards. I've been accused of exaggerating: how unsuccessful I am with guys, how little attention I get due to my looks, my own physical short comings, the difficulties of dating I face as a girl without good looks, and NOW you've even wagering that I'm making up details about guys I've dated! So, I've conjured my entire dating experience from thin air JUST to prove you wrong? It couldn't possibly be that there is more to female attraction than is supposed in your narrow and self-serving philosophy?
zengirl Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Looks get you through the door, while personality keeps you in the house. Simple. I work at an IT company, and while I'd classify most of the guys here at "cute," they aren't tall, they aren't muscular, and they all having the makings of programmers (pale, don't dress up, "nerd"-like.) Yet they are all married or engaged to incredibly attractive women. Guys can get away with having less-than-desirable looks if they have either brains, personality, or money. Girls (as this thread can attest for) are not so lucky. Eh, brains alone is definitely not enough for men either. Maybe brains + personality + money, sure. Charm helps, because women are attracted to different things than the pure visual. But plenty of smarties without social skills can't get significant others. At any rate, your company seems to be an outlier. I mean, maybe if your company is made up of the richest, most elite programmers in a programming town (where there aren't a lot of other quality men) or something. . . I mean, if you're male and at the top of your field, it's basically the same as being a 10 in looks. But I don't get how the whole company is claimed by beautiful women. Where did all these beautiful women even come from? I think your observations are skewed and amplified by your own lack of self-esteem. As to the question, it's VITAL that a guy like your personality and a very good thing, but no, without the spark, the attraction, the sexual whatnot, it's not going to be enough for a relationship. That said: beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as all those sexy-to-someone IT guys point out, and not just for men. I know women I'd hardly call beautiful, but the men in their lives think they're goddesses. That's what love does.
oaks Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 So how the hell can short, fat, balding nerdy guys be confident and have charm? By not giving a **** about being short or balding, and by doing something about being fat. Otherwise you let those things define you, and they definitely not charming qualities.
OnyxSnowfall Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 By not giving a **** about being short or balding, and by doing something about being fat. Otherwise you let those things define you, and they definitely not charming qualities. Yes, this, pretty much.
somedude81 Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 By not giving a **** about being short or balding, and by doing something about being fat. Otherwise you let those things define you, and they definitely not charming qualities. And how exactly does one show they don't give a damn about their height etc? Then why would that attract anybody?
OnyxSnowfall Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 And how exactly does one show they don't give a damn about their height etc? Then why would that attract anybody? You have to build self-confidence and accept your height (if not learn to like it). How you can do that as who *you* are is beyond me. There are "trainers" you could likely work with or resources you could perhaps plunge into (I generally find mine in libraries but your learning style could be entirely different). Many people are attracted to people that like themselves --- it's just part of the "law of attraction", if you will. Some people will be attracted to those who don't like themselves too, but it's generally from a depraved source ... if not their own dislike of themselves. You're probably putting too much of your energy into heavy, negative places........................... when it *could* be put into better, healthier ones that people will indeed take notice of and want to be around
somedude81 Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 You didn't answer my question of how not giving a damn about my height would make women attracted to me, but then you mentioned the law of attraction and I guess that's the secret....
OnyxSnowfall Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 You didn't answer my question of how not giving a damn about my height would make women attracted to me, but then you mentioned the law of attraction and I guess that's the secret.... The thing is, some women don't care about a man's height. And if those women aren't interested in you, the problem is something else... (it could even be them --- they're not available etc........... or it could be times when your depression/bitterness/etc seep out --- it's really hard to say from not ever having actually encountered and engaged you). http://www.lifehack.org/articles/lifehack/63-ways-to-build-self-confidence.html http://www.positivityblog.com/index.php/2009/02/20/how-to-build-self-confidence/ Some of it's crap, but I think you should try exploring ideas somewhere (if you haven't been). The worst thing is that you begin to feel good about yourself and women still aren't showing interest in you. The chances of that are very slim, but if it somehow occurs, you'll have developed the tools to still feel good *regardless*.
somedude81 Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 The thing is, some women don't care about a man's height. And if those women aren't interested in you, the problem is something else... (it could even be them --- they're not available etc........... or it could be times when your depression/bitterness/etc seep out --- it's really hard to say from not ever having actually encountered and engaged you). Yeah there are a hundred reasons why a woman wouldn't date me even if she didn't care about my height. And half of those could be about her. Of course no matter what she says, I think the problem is me. I just think that I have really lousy luck because I've always been rejected. and I never really know what goes wrong. http://www.lifehack.org/articles/lifehack/63-ways-to-build-self-confidence.html http://www.positivityblog.com/index.php/2009/02/20/how-to-build-self-confidence/ Some of it's crap, but I think you should try exploring ideas somewhere (if you haven't been). The worst thing is that you begin to feel good about yourself and women still aren't showing interest in you. The chances of that are very slim, but if it somehow occurs, you'll have developed the tools to still feel good *regardless*. That's actually happened to me. It's when I was doing regular therapy and starting to feel good about myself. But women still weren't into me. It wasn't long that I realized I was wasting my time and money because all it was doing was making me feel deceived. When my head tells me that I'm a desirable guy and then women tell me I'm not, it's pretty hard to keep that false belief going.
Nexus One Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Yeah there are a hundred reasons why a woman wouldn't date me even if she didn't care about my height. And half of those could be about her. Of course no matter what she says, I think the problem is me. I just think that I have really lousy luck because I've always been rejected. and I never really know what goes wrong. That's actually happened to me. It's when I was doing regular therapy and starting to feel good about myself. But women still weren't into me. It wasn't long that I realized I was wasting my time and money because all it was doing was making me feel deceived. When my head tells me that I'm a desirable guy and then women tell me I'm not, it's pretty hard to keep that false belief going. How many women have rejected you in your life?
AD1980 Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 The thing is, some women don't care about a man's height. And if those women aren't interested in you, the problem is something else... (it could even be them --- they're not available etc........... or it could be times when your depression/bitterness/etc seep out --- it's really hard to say from not ever having actually encountered and engaged you). http://www.lifehack.org/articles/lifehack/63-ways-to-build-self-confidence.html http://www.positivityblog.com/index.php/2009/02/20/how-to-build-self-confidence/ Some of it's crap, but I think you should try exploring ideas somewhere (if you haven't been). The worst thing is that you begin to feel good about yourself and women still aren't showing interest in you. The chances of that are very slim, but if it somehow occurs, you'll have developed the tools to still feel good *regardless*. Ahhh the love yourself have confidence cliche Having that will not automatically make a women attracted to you if she isnt physically attracted to you at all
somedude81 Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 How many women have rejected you in your life? About 20. None of them were random girls I didn't know. I had big crushes on a very large number of them and my ego was really damaged by the ones I liked.
OnyxSnowfall Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 But women still weren't into me. It wasn't long that I realized I was wasting my time and money because all it was doing was making me feel deceived. When my head tells me that I'm a desirable guy and then women tell me I'm not, it's pretty hard to keep that false belief going. The truth is probably closer to you being desirable to some women (and men? lol) and undesirable to others. I rather think it's a false belief to believe you are completely undesirable to women. The thing is, no one is meant to be attractive to everyone.... and "quantity" does not equal quality. If a person is highly desirable to a multitude of people, it is likely for one or two basic aspects that tend to prevent others from seeing this "highly desirable" person for what they really are. There's a lot more to people than a few traits and or aspects... I personally adhere to the belief that it's best to be desired and loved for what you encompass - even the flaws. I realize you would probably take being reduced down to a couple of things that are coveted after, lol, but I promise you that gets old and again dissatisfaction is likely bound to set it.............. in any case, I suppose I'm saying, in this instance, quantity tends to be more "false" than quality. It's worth it to accept feeling good about yourself and to believe you will eventually find a mate that's compatible with you. I think feeling good about yourself just to increase your chances at finding a mate is probably the wrong approach... I do think it *will* increase them, but if you have expectations, it's like too fragile. How long were you in therapy and how long did it take before you began to feel good about yourself, and from there.... how long did it take before you withdrew from it? And were you approaching women while you were in therapy? A lot of men endure rejection, whether it's personal or not, in the dating world. As for men with "game", I don't think they're cultivating fulfilling relationships anyway .......... Heh, I wish therapy was not profitable ......... but that's a whole 'nother issue (seriously, I consider mental health to be as important as physical health and it drives me crazy that society doesn't *really* care about the life of it's citizens).
OnyxSnowfall Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 (edited) Ahhh the love yourself have confidence cliche Having that will not automatically make a women attracted to you if she isnt physically attracted to you at all I already know that It will make SOME women who are initially interested in you more attracted to you, though --- rather than deter them. Self-confidence does not mean everyone's going to be attracted to you, I think that's impossible. But it tends to increase interest and not scare away the ones who already are. Edited November 2, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall
ptp Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 I already know that It will make SOME women who are more attracted to you, though --- rather than deter them. Self-confidence does not mean everyone's going to be attracted to you, I think that's impossible. But it tends to increase interest and not scare away the ones who already are. Pfff.... speak for yourself...I am mad smexy. In fact I am too smexy for this shirt.
OnyxSnowfall Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 About 20. None of them were random girls I didn't know. I had big crushes on a very large number of them and my ego was really damaged by the ones I liked. How old were you the first time you faced heartfelt rejection? And how much time passed until you faced it again? (have you had crushes on more than one female at a time, too?)
OnyxSnowfall Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Pfff.... speak for yourself...I am mad smexy. In fact I am too smexy for this shirt. --- better take it off then and give it to me :B
Nexus One Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Ahhh the love yourself have confidence cliche Having that will not automatically make a women attracted to you if she isnt physically attracted to you at all I know a player that (in my opinion) has average looks, but he has slept with hundreds of women. What's his greatest asset? Confidence. The guy is absolutely fearless. Example. When driving, he suddenly stops at a bus stop. A girl is standing there. He asks "need a ride?", 30 minutes later he's f*cking her in his car. And that's just the tip of a very large iceberg. It's mostly confidence, true fearlessness actually.
somedude81 Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 How old were you the first time you faced heartfelt rejection? And how much time passed until you faced it again? (have you had crushes on more than one female at a time, too?) Ah, too many posts to repsond to. I'll address the other one later as that requires more thought. My first rejection came at 13. She was the first girl I ever liked. The next serious rejection came at 15, then 16, then 18. Then after being tired of getting my hard stomped on, I put a hold on girls until 22. Then I felt I was ready to open myself up again, I was rejected. From 22 till 30, I've been rejected by 2-3 girls every year. I have had crushes on more than one girl at a time. When it's happened there has been one girl that I really liked and another that I kind of liked.
somedude81 Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 I know a player that (in my opinion) has average looks, but he has slept with hundreds of women. What's his greatest asset? Confidence. The guy is absolutely fearless. Example. When driving, he suddenly stops at a bus stop. A girl is standing there. He asks "need a ride?", 30 minutes later he's f*cking her in his car. And that's just the tip of a very large iceberg. It's mostly confidence, true fearlessness actually. I wonder how he got started? That type of confidence certainly isn't normal. I'm guessing that he somehow got really lucky as a teenager and then the confidence just exploded.
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