Is A Guy Liking Your Personality Really A Good Thing?

[Woggle]

You should be happy alone. I am not saying don't want a man at all but learn to enjoy life outside of the context of a relationship so you have that much more to bring to one. Somebody enjoying life and making the most of it naturally attracts healthy people and that goes for men and women.

[Wolf18]

Judging from the type of men this girl verzhyn dates, she seems to have a thing for douchy looking fratboys and hipsters. What do women expect with such satirical, empty shells of manhood? These are the "in" type of young man, so expect competition when you choose them over someone who is normal and a real man.

[Woggle]

I still haven't figured out exactly what a hipster is.

[ptp]

'cause real life experiences are a little bit more impressionable than online ones...

 

I get that in pretty much every thread your opinion is diametrically opposed to mine, but damn Onyx...put me on block or something.

 

I meant it when I said I don't want to pick a fight you.

[Wolf18]

I still haven't figured out exactly what a hipster is.

 

Picture a beatnik, add in a pinch of camp, 2 rich parents, and a complete lack of masculinity/awareness of traditional gender roles, voila , you have your typical 20 something from Seattle or Brooklyn.

[OnyxSnowfall]

I get that in pretty much every thread your opinion is diametrically opposed to mine, but damn Onyx...put me on block or something.

 

I meant it when I said I don't want to pick a fight you.

 

Lol, I don't need to "blind" myself from you, ptp

 

Besides, you usually initiate, why can't I have a turn

[verhrzn]

Judging from the type of men this girl verzhyn dates, she seems to have a thing for douchy looking fratboys and hipsters. What do women expect with such satirical, empty shells of manhood? These are the "in" type of young man, so expect competition when you choose them over someone who is normal and a real man.

 

... How in the fing world did you jump to "fratboys and hipsters?" I date nerds. The closest any of my exes has gotten to a frat is a marching band music fraternity, and the common hobbies among the guys I like are video games, sci-fi shows, gaming conventions and classical music.

 

What world do you live in that that somehow translates to either fratboy OR hipster?

[aj22one]

I still haven't figured out exactly what a hipster is.

 

Best explanation I can give is this:

[Woggle]

We had our own scene back in the 90s so I don't know if I want to criticize hipsters too much.

[aj22one]

We had our own scene back in the 90s so I don't know if I want to criticize hipsters too much.

 

Trust me, they deserve it.

[dasein]

Picture a beatnik, add in a pinch of camp, 2 rich parents, and a complete lack of masculinity/awareness of traditional gender roles, voila , you have your typical 20 something from Seattle or Brooklyn.

 

Whoever was interested in an elaboration of the above, google "look at this f hipster" not sure if i could link that here.

[AD1980]

Not true, in order to be hot you need it ALL. I see plenty of women who are in shape but have a plain or unattractive face and I'm a woman btw. Makeup cannot compensate for UGLY FEATURES; eyes too small, nose too big, non-symmetrical features. It's like putting lipstick on a pig; it doesn't turn it into a swan but it can mask the ugliness just a little bit but smart people won't be fooled. Some people have "weird looking faces" that no makeup can fix. I am talking about the construction of the face; a weird shaped face or a big nose or just an "unattractive face", it's all about BONE STRUCTURE. You can be size ZERO and have terrible bone structure and have a flat looking face. Some people just don't have sex appeal even if they weer makeup and hot outfits; some people just don't have "it" and will never have "it" no matter how hard they try. That is life.

 

I like flaws a lot of em are cute..ive met cute girls with big noses etc

 

Most guys dont seek perfection.. i think sometimes women project their own vanity and shallowness onto men

Edited November 5, 2011 by AD1980

[RiverRunning]

I posted a long response to this but it was wiped out...I actually know the person who wrote the letter to Dear Prudence. Her boyfriend's comment has shattered her self-esteem. She is kind of obsessed with continuing to lose the rest of the weight. I'd say she's pretty but often she gets overlooked because of her weight. Honestly, her boyfriend is nothing to look at - I think most people would consider him unattractive, yet he's had the cajones to so blatantly put what he finds attractive out to her. She put her picture on reddit's "amiugly" subreddit and the response was really positive. She was like 30 pounds heavier in the picture.

 

Most of the responses were along the lines of, "You have the potential to be a total knock-out. Just keep losing weight," or "You're really gorgeous." Just to put it into perspective. I'd say she's a pretty girl. Not a super model but definitely not ugly.

 

She even keeps track of a web site where women post pictures of themselves according to their height and weight. I guess she will show her boyfriend the pictures and tries to get his approval on which body types he likes. She told me that if they broke up, she 'knows' he would move on much faster, and she would be lucky to even get a man to look at her.

 

----------------------------

 

That said, according to the BMI, I'm about 60 pounds overweight. That doesn't tell the whole story - according to BF% I probably have about 40 pounds to lose. In any case, I'm an inch or two taller than my sister-in-law and I outweigh her by 30 pounds. But I look markedly thinner than she does. I'm going to guess that for my weight, I am probably much more muscular than the average. I have a wider frame than my boyfriend. Most people I know describe me as "kinda chubby." Thankfully, I don't think they're complete liars, as these are people who have also told me I was "fat" when I weighed 50 - 70 pounds more than I do now.

 

It gets easy to say, "It's because I'm fat." I regret that I lived so much of my life holed up and away, thinking I'm ugly and fat. I still do and I'll probably never be totally freed of negative thoughts until I'm at a 'socially acceptable' weight. But I work from home and I don't go to school. I don't do the 'singles' scene.' So realistically, how would I know how attractive I am? I go out often with my boyfriend, so it's not an ideal time to approach a woman when the man with her is arguably her mate.

 

OP, try to think objectively about your life and other barriers that could affect your dating life. It is so unfortunate you have met men who outright told you that you were unattractive. That is THEIR Low self-esteem coming out and getting projected onto YOU. I had an ex-boyfriend who was flunking out of school basically every semester, he couldn't handle the 'stress' of taking two undergrad college classes at a time, he barely worked, he was manipulative, childish, cruel, etc. And he had the stones to tell me he was glad I was overweight...because it meant "other men wouldn't look" at me as much. That was on HIM and it had NOTHING TO do with me.

 

I really believe that when a man makes disparaging remarks like that to a woman, he's feeding on her known insecurities. He wants to emotionally cripple her and keep her dependent on him. It's abusive behavior. It makes him feel better about himself to know that you have put him up on a pedestal for so graciously accepting you. If he really thought she was so ugly - but he cared about her - why would he ever say that to her? I can only think of 'insecurity.'

 

Even 'beautiful girls' are treated badly by boyfriends. I can't tell you how many times, here or elsewhere, I have seen very attractive women saying that their boyfriends called them fat (because you must be a cow at 5'5" and 110 pounds, after all *eye roll*), or told them that they were ugly, or told them they need cosmetic surgery, etc. There are a lot of messed up people in the world and you combine those people with someone who's already insecure, has low self-esteem, little self-confidence, etc., and it's just a recipe for disaster and even more unhappiness.

 

It is unfortunate that women seem to be trained to think I'm beautiful and I have it all, or I'm ugly and I'm nothing. We don't really focus on what's on the inside.

 

That said, I think it is quite natural to be wanted for both your looks AND your personality. Your looks are your lure and how you maintain the audience's attention, but the personality is the real show. To be liked in spite of my looks would be incredibly hurtful. To be liked in spite of my personality would also be hurtful. I would like someone to be at least reasonably attracted to both features, and I don't think that's too much to ask.

 

I have seen how devastated the Dear Prudence LW is by her boyfriend's comment. She's told me that he never looks at big women. He never comments on big women. His eyes are always tuned to normal/underweight women. She's showed me some of the pictures of women he finds attractive - some of them are probably 20 or more pounds underweight.

 

She feels as though he 'settled for her' because at the time, there weren't any other women available to him. And that's a really sad feeling to go through. I can't believe she got so much garbage from people in the comments because of it.

 

I'd imagine most people wouldn't react too kindly to, "I don't like your body, but nice personality, let's bang, you ugly monster."

[xxoo]

Most guys dont seek perfection.. i think sometimes women project their own vanity and shallowness onto men

 

Yep. Women are FAR more critical of other women than men are of women. Insecure women boost themselves by putting other women down.

[ascendotum]

I don't think it's a fairy tale. What these guys realized is that what is holding them back is fear. Fear of various things - getting rejected, laughed at, looking stupid, etc. Instead of giving in to fear though and letting it paralyze them they see fear as a challenge that they want to overcome.

 

If you want to be more confident with women, you have to ask them out. Many women and many times. If you do it often enough, eventually it won't be such a huge problem for you anymore. The difference between the guys who are bad with women and the ones who are good with them is, the good ones are willing to do something that they didn't feel comfortable with initially knowing that in the end their effort would pay off.

 

Something else, that is a little easier to do would be to smile a lot. You don't even have to say anything, just give everybody who passes your way a genuine smile. People will smile back and you will feel liked. That should also help make you feel better about yourself and encourage you to do the next step - approaching women.

 

Your first point...same applies to women, when it comes to initiating contact + conversations with guys they don't know.

 

Your 2nd pont...

Yes + No. I am not going to say what you said is wrong, because its not, but its just not as simple that. The difference is more than the fact the successful guys were nervous + insecure until they asked out many women. The guys I know that have done really well, with women have tended to be extroverts in nature. The challenge for them is much less than it is for an introvert or anxious guy, Lead singer for RHCP, Anthony Keidis lost his virginity at 12 to his babysitter. Awesome way to start off building confidence with girls without having to ask out stacks of girls to get a yes. What does he have...good looks & naturally outgoing personality.

 

Your statement discounts looks and the impact that has on how many rejections you have to overcome in the quest to get a yes and get confident. When I was buff vs skinny, big big difference in how women reacted to me. I was the same guy and I chatted to girls as before...in fact when I was buff I had girls initiate the approach, which trust me is a huge positive in terms of my confidence then. An example from work earlier this yr I saw. Avg looking but a bit nerdy IT guy, makes a bit of a dirty joke to 2 of the single women he was working with that he had heard on the radio. The women acted a bit indignant and did not laugh, and the guy felt bad for offending them and not being funny. About 2 weeks later I see these same 2 women in the cafeteria sitting with one of the site foreman, 6'3 rugged good looking guy. It seemed like he was telling a story/joke and I could hear him saying c*** s***ing, f**cking, p****y, etc (much worse than the IT guy) and these girls had huge grins & were cacking up laughing and also touching the guy's arm when doing so. Its not a case of foreman guy putting in more effort.

 

Your 3rd point...Fully agree with the smiling and conveying happiness.

[ptp]

Lol, I don't need to "blind" myself from you, ptp

 

Besides, you usually initiate, why can't I have a turn

 

Yep, I shouldn't have initiated, my mistake.

After, I said I don't want to pick a fight with you, I didn't respond to your last pharmaceutical post, and I didn't respond to your other post in the Porn & Relationships thread.

 

I like healthy debate, but I don't I want to be argumentative and annoy people...that isn't why I come here. I might have overstepped my bounds with my criticisms of your personality in my pharma posts...so I just wanted to back off a little.

[OnyxSnowfall]

Yep. Women are FAR more critical of other women than men are of women. Insecure women boost themselves by putting other women down.

 

Well, I've encountered some pretty critical men in my life. However, overall, I would say men aren't too picky.

 

I do think some women who are insecure will put other women down --- it's pretty typical of any insecure person though --- male or female. But it's not the only explanation... some things really only serve the purpose of appalling someone (and they derive no sense of ego from it).

[ptp]

Exactly what constructive criticism of yours are my posts ignoring? That I should "screen out" the bad guys and only go for those that are attracted to me? I've already addressed that: there AREN'T any.

 

That I should be happy being alone, and somehow magically that will get me a boyfriend who likes me. I've been alone for a huge majority of my life... I was single for a year before this FWB came along. It didn't change anything.

 

As to other constructive criticism, all I see are two pieces of advice: "Wear make-up and dress better' (oh gee why didn't I think of that!) and "Go for guys in your league." Well, apparently the only guys in my league are unemployed virgins whose only hobby is sleeping, because I've been rejected by every other type of guy.

 

How about not putting yourself down constantly? Especially when multiple male posters on this very site have praised your looks?

 

Why do you ignore them?

 

I know it is sounds stupid, but Woogle is exactly right you have to be okay with being alone. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be actively looking or wait for something to happen, but it does mean not entering into a relationship with someone who disrespects your. It does mean not entering into a FWB relationship.

 

I know it sucks right now, but honestly 1 year isn't a long time. I have been there and so have many others in this thread.

 

Anyway, I am just saying you should take some of positive things people are saying about you to heart instead of just focusing on the negatives.

[ascendotum]

They think they're uglier than Scarlett Johannsen, but don't think they're too ugly to reject men average looking men.

 

Introduce me to any pretty woman over the age of 24 in a major metro area who thinks she is truly ugly, and I will introduce you to a talking pigs and donkeys.

 

I found this funny, because I've known many women with this contradiction, where it is like this, they are unhappy because they are not prettier (compare themsleves to someone like SJ) and criticise a number of aspects of themselves, but when they are single and out for the night they're hot stuff, way above the league for most chumps that approach them.

[somedude81]

Lead singer for RHCP, Anthony Keidis lost his virginity at 12 to his babysitter. Awesome way to start off building confidence with girls without having to ask out stacks of girls to get a yes. What does he have...good looks & naturally outgoing personality.

Yup, positive experiences can lead to increased confidence and a more outgoing personality.

 

Frankly, I'm starting to believe that the not very attractive guys who have lots of confidence, only got that way because of luck.

 

I'm almost completely certain that if I got lucky and one of the girls I liked when I was between 13 and 18, liked me back and let me date her, my confidence level now would be vastly higher.

 

But since I've only experienced failure, that is what I expect.

[Wolf18]

Yup, positive experiences can lead to increased confidence and a more outgoing personality.

 

Frankly, I'm starting to believe that the not very attractive guys who have lots of confidence, only got that way because of luck.

 

I'm almost completely certain that if I got lucky and one of the girls I liked when I was between 13 and 18, liked me back and let me date her, my confidence level now would be vastly higher.

 

But since I've only experienced failure, that is what I expect.

 

 

Actually when I was 12, I had a 15 year old babysitter that would masturbate me while diddling herself every time she came over At 13 I ripped off another older girls "**** me bracelet" to see what would happen when those were the trend, she was actually down to do it (we were hanging out at her place) but my best friend at the time was there and he had a crush on her and it devestated him, so I left with him instead.

 

Girls were so much more receptive to me between 12-18, and I am confident, but imo I think the reason women between those age brackets are more accessible is because it is illegal for older guys to get them and hence there's less compettition.

[PlumPrincess]

Your first point...same applies to women, when it comes to initiating contact + conversations with guys they don't know.

Well, yes, but I don't think the problem with approaching the other gender is a particularly female one.

 

Your 2nd pont...

Yes + No. I am not going to say what you said is wrong, because its not, but its just not as simple that. The difference is more than the fact the successful guys were nervous + insecure until they asked out many women. The guys I know that have done really well, with women have tended to be extroverts in nature. The challenge for them is much less than it is for an introvert or anxious guy, Lead singer for RHCP, Anthony Keidis lost his virginity at 12 to his babysitter. Awesome way to start off building confidence with girls without having to ask out stacks of girls to get a yes. What does he have...good looks & naturally outgoing personality.

If you as an introvert have a worse start than an extrovert and never reach his level of comfort, so what? That's how life is, you might have other advantages, you might be much smarter than the extrovert, have a happier home when growing up, etc. I really see no point in complaining that the extrovert might reach a higher level of comfort when approaching women, because he has a better starting place. And who knows, the guy with the talent who is content with what he has, might in the end lose against the enthusiastic guy who uses his intelligence and invests effort to reach his goal. Does anybody remember Neil Strauss?

 

Sometimes I think the difference between the successful and the unsuccesful has less to do with an inherent inequality of talents between them than with the successful doing what needs to be done and the unsuccessful looking for reason to justify why they can not do it.

 

Your statement discounts looks and the impact that has on how many rejections you have to overcome in the quest to get a yes and get confident. When I was buff vs skinny, big big difference in how women reacted to me. I was the same guy and I chatted to girls as before...in fact when I was buff I had girls initiate the approach, which trust me is a huge positive in terms of my confidence then. An example from work earlier this yr I saw. Avg looking but a bit nerdy IT guy, makes a bit of a dirty joke to 2 of the single women he was working with that he had heard on the radio. The women acted a bit indignant and did not laugh, and the guy felt bad for offending them and not being funny. About 2 weeks later I see these same 2 women in the cafeteria sitting with one of the site foreman, 6'3 rugged good looking guy. It seemed like he was telling a story/joke and I could hear him saying c*** s***ing, f**cking, p****y, etc (much worse than the IT guy) and these girls had huge grins & were cacking up laughing and also touching the guy's arm when doing so. Its not a case of foreman guy putting in more effort.

Maybe they knew the foreman much better than the IT guy? I assume people tend to laugh at their friends' jokes more often than at jokes from strangers because they want to connect with their friends.

 

Guys, who don't think they're good-looking, should get some well-fitting clothes, work on their posture, go to the gym, get a nice haircut, etc. And if they're still not what is considered to be conventionally hot, at least they look as if they take care of themselves (that's also good). And in of the threads here, some posters listed celebraties that were not that good-looking, but somehow were considered to be extremely sexy. The not so good-looking guys could go for that. But this all also means cutting down on the complaints and invest some effort. (Please don't tell me you want to be loved for your inner qualities unless you have always prefered the frumpy plain girl. If you haven't noticed, the unattainable, hot girl that you life is often is not that hot, but has a good haircut, holds her head high and is well-dressed.)

[PlumPrincess]

Yup, positive experiences can lead to increased confidence and a more outgoing personality.

 

Frankly, I'm starting to believe that the not very attractive guys who have lots of confidence, only got that way because of luck.

 

I'm almost completely certain that if I got lucky and one of the girls I liked when I was between 13 and 18, liked me back and let me date her, my confidence level now would be vastly higher.

 

But since I've only experienced failure, that is what I expect.

See, now you're sitting here and complain. If you were a "doer", you would have considered my suggestions and tried them out at least. Instead you will probably sit here and ponder whether my suggestions are a good idea and what will happen if you fail and it doesn't work. Instead of looking for excuses, just do it. Be a winner.

[Mme. Chaucer]

You should be happy alone. I am not saying don't want a man at all but learn to enjoy life outside of the context of a relationship so you have that much more to bring to one. Somebody enjoying life and making the most of it naturally attracts healthy people and that goes for men and women.

 

THIS is the best advice anyone could give you, or any of the other very unhappy single people here. Including the bitter "incel" guys who seem to overtake many a thread.

 

I realize it is easier said than done, but it MUST be done if you don't want to stay stuck and miserable. You HAVE to learn how to be a happy single person.

 

OP, I get a very, very unhappy vibe from you here, and I bet it is contributing to the way guys respond to you.

 

Can you immerse yourself in all the things in life that you DO have going for you, that are worthy of gratitude, and try to make the fact that you have them more important than what you do not have?

[verhrzn]

THIS is the best advice anyone could give you, or any of the other very unhappy single people here. Including the bitter "incel" guys who seem to overtake many a thread.

 

I realize it is easier said than done, but it MUST be done if you don't want to stay stuck and miserable. You HAVE to learn how to be a happy single person.

 

OP, I get a very, very unhappy vibe from you here, and I bet it is contributing to the way guys respond to you.

 

Can you immerse yourself in all the things in life that you DO have going for you, that are worthy of gratitude, and try to make the fact that you have them more important than what you do not have?

 

I am really not sure what those things would be, is the honest truth. This isn't a put down... I'm not a bad person. I'm just not gifted in any way.

 

I do things I enjoy... martial arts, reading, belly dancing... but I have absolutely no skill in them. I do them anyway, but they'd be nothing to impress anyone else-heck, people seem to think LESS of me when reading my stories or watching me perform, because I look like such the fool.

 

I am moderately intelligent, and I am very good at my job, but how in the world could these things translate into the dating world?

 

I am, at best, very average... so what exactly is there to focus on when you really don't have qualities to make up for the ones you lack?