Is A Guy Liking Your Personality Really A Good Thing?

[ptp]

The sheer irony of this post, given what I'd just detailed in my previous one, is kind of delicious.

 

Well I didn't read that post before posting mine, but why don't focus on the constructive parts of what I said?

 

Such as:

 

the fact that there are guys who will find you attractive and want to have a relationship with you.

 

the fact that it is up to you to screen out the guys who aren't totally into you.

[fortyninethousand322]

I think it's confusing and sad how some guys who are virgins blame others for this, and also use the fact to fodder lots of rage towards other people.

 

You're a virgin. Get used to it. Or, figure out how to relate well with women so you can have some sexual experiences with some of them.

 

It's rather easy to say considering you've probably had a far easier time with dating and relationships than some of us have.

[Anela]

I've only read the first page, but I can relate somewhat. I'm not gorgeous, but I've been told I'm pretty, and guys usually like me when they know me - only they hardly ever ask me out (when I've been around them in the past, as friends or in some other way).

 

I can tell you this: I know a guy who loves women who look like Vera Farmiga, or skinny, small women - but the woman he flipped for? She's about the same size as him when it comes to weight (neither one is small), she's the same age as he is, and they hit it off right away - their first date lasted a whole weekend, and they were engaged three months later. He's *happy*. I'm holding onto that, right now, for myself. they're both very happy, and they make me smile.

[ptp]

It's rather easy to say considering you've probably had a far easier time with dating and relationships than some of us have.

 

Yea I have to agree it is way worse for guys than girls when it comes to dating. It is easy for women to disregard what guys go through without actually taking the time to learn how difficult it is. I see women on LS quite frequently dismissing the feelings of some of the unlucky guys and all I do is smh... They have no idea.

[Mme. Chaucer]

It's rather easy to say considering you've probably had a far easier time with dating and relationships than some of us have.

 

I have had a lot of profound struggles in my life. Unfairness in life can manifest in many ways. Some of them are even more painful than being a virgin.

 

The "angry male virgins" who are very abundant around here lately are no more sympathetic than the "angry spinster" female archetype. Fortunately, though she used to be a commonly trotted out figure, we have not been seeing much of her recently.

[verhrzn]

In an ideal world, I agree with your friends. However, I know that vanity can get the better of most of us sometimes and we want to feel attractive to our chosen gender. Especially when our past experience tells us that somehow we fell short.

 

But how does it benefit you to be 'right' that looks are more important than personality? Will you have cosmetic surgery to change how you look to improve your chances of maintaining a successful relationship? Or is it more likely to fuel your self-criticism that somehow you are not good enough no matter how great your personality?

 

You are who you are. You have managed to have a number of relationships with men who were attracted to you, even if it wasn't to the part of you that you wanted. They did not last, but you only need one that will.

 

I don't necessarily think that looks are MORE important than personality. I think they're BOTH important, and what I've always wanted is a partner who appreciates me for both sides.

 

The issue is not so much that the guy loves my personality, but that he dislikes/is ambivalent about my looks. As someone who has spent her entire life struggling with not being accepted because of my appearance, it's just kind of a slap in the face.

 

Furthermore, it seems that while personality does lead to a longer lasting relationship, if physical attraction isn't there as well, the relationship still won't last. Guys always end up dumping me because they find a girl who fulfills both sides... So wouldn't dating this guy just be repeating history?

[Wolf18]

And? How does not invalidate anything that I said?

[/Quote]

 

You insinuated that perhaps I was a deadbeat or a hobo. I am neither. I'm doing what I can.

 

It doesn't necessarily reflect your intelligence, but it very well may. If someone is a neurosurgeon, that's a pretty good indication he has lots of intelligence, as well as the kind of personality that makes it possible for him to accomplish something very difficult. Many jobs have prerequisites that make it virtually impossible for stupid or unmotivated people to get them. So while your job is not the lithmus test for your intelligence, there is at least some correlation between what you do for a living and how intelligent you are.[/Quote]

 

This is wrong on so many levels.

 

The people who get the best jobs aren't the most intelligent, they're the most conformist. The people who study all night and do what the system tells them. I know because I go to college and I work with my hands. I had a former tenured Harvard professor who lives in the building my uncle supers, when I worked in the building the guy could barely screw in a lightbulb. I had to do the simplest things for this "brilliant" man.

 

In fact, I would argue that the way this economy is actually stunts intelligence. There are many intelligent people working in the for-profit scientific fields that use their intelligence to make things like boner pills instead of something worthwhile like curing cancer.

 

Also, you misstated what I said. I allowed for various kinds of exceptions and didn't make it as simple as "high-paying job" = "intelligence". You are now twisting my words. Women are attracted to intelligent men who have energy and drive, because they make exciting, intellectually stimulating and reliable partners. It just so happens that people who possess those qualities tend to -- though by far not always -- be on a solid financial footing.[/Quote]

 

I'm intelligent and I have plenty of energy and drive. But money doesn't motivate me, so these traits are moot in the eyes of most women.

 

Considering the fact that some of the best jobs you can only get by knowing someone, instead of objective ability, this is double true in regards to intelligence. Just because the kid with the most toys wins, doesn't mean he's more intelligent.

 

I am rather less impressed with religious thinkers than most people are. I think most of them have a skill for creating a superficial veneer of intelligence that cuts it with the masses, but with rare exceptions, they are little more than clever salesmen. However, to each his own.

 

[/Quote]

 

Well the fact is that Buddha is in the history books, and will still be talked about years from now. Can you say the same things about yourself? I doubt he would care if you were impressed by him or not.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Wolf18

[somedude81]

I see, so people only receive sympathy if they have a carbon-copy experience of the very worst thing that you can come up with.

 

So, being a virgin is somehow so much more terrible than being dumped, over and over again, for being ugly. For getting used until a guy can find a hotter girl.

 

Let me just guess what you're doing to say... Well that's what you get for dating rich/handsome players. Hmm, except the guys I've dated have all been NERDS, who used that same old tired "Why are women so shallow?" "Why do women only go for jerks?" "Oh I've had SUCH bad luck with women!" Oh, until all of a sudden they discover they CAN get a hot girl interested in them, and then it's adios to the ugly one!

 

I'd trade places with an unattractive guy in a SECOND. Guys, even unattractive ones, don't know how good they have it.

I was feeling sympathetic with you until the very last line that you just lost me.

 

When is the last time you had sex? If the date you're thinking of is within the past six months, then you have it much better than the average loserish guy.

 

If you would seriously trade your experiences for nothing then I'd have to question your intelligence. Unless you have had zero good times from any of the men you've been with, dating and FWB, you've had it better than many men.

 

Seriously, if things are so bad with your FWB, why haven't you left him a long time ago?

[fortyninethousand322]

I have had a lot of profound struggles in my life. Unfairness in life can manifest in many ways. Some of them are even more painful than being a virgin.

 

The "angry male virgins" who are very abundant around here lately are no more sympathetic than the "angry spinster" female archetype. Fortunately, though she used to be a commonly trotted out figure, we have not been seeing much of her recently.

 

Whatever .

 

Actually the "angry male virgins" are just as sympathetic as anyone else on LS who complains about abuse, cheating, men/women who won't commit, and other manner of ailments. All of those people deserve what they get just as the angry male virgins do. No one should be sympathetic of anyone on here. Sympathy is for losers.

[Wolf18]

Whatever .

 

Actually the "angry male virgins" are just as sympathetic as anyone else on LS who complains about abuse, cheating, men/women who won't commit, and other manner of ailments. All of those people deserve what they get just as the angry male virgins do. No one should be sympathetic of anyone on here. Sympathy is for losers.

 

 

Yes according to Glora Steinem-Chaucer, we must shed tears for some girl that gets cheated on again and again by her rich, hot boyfriend while ignoring the guys who love her in her "Friendzone", but if a guy is 30 years old and has never even kissed a girl that's all his fault. I'm not in the latters boat thankfully, but I think that's a tragedy and a testament to how our society has failed men.

[PJKino]

No offense op but its hard to believe that many men came out and blatantly said to you that youre not attractive and i left you for someone better looking..

 

My guess is these Men left you for whatever reason[maybe you werent as compatible as you thought maybe they were just jerks who do this to a lot of women] you later saw them with another women and becasue of your insecurities figured that womens better looking that means he must have left me because of that..

Edited November 5, 2011 by PJKino

[Metis]

You insinuated that perhaps I was a deadbeat or a hobo. I am neither. I'm doing what I can.

I didn't insinuate that. You did previously bring up the fact of how women are too shallow to date you if you WERE a hobo, however.

 

This is wrong on so many levels.

 

The people who get the best jobs aren't the most intelligent, they're the most conformist. The people who study all night and do what the system tells them. I know because I go to college and I work with my hands. I had a former tenured Harvard professor who lives in the building my uncle supers, when I worked in the building the guy could barely screw in a lightbulb. I had to do the simplest things for this "brilliant" man.

On this we'll just have to agree to disagree. I understand it's flattering to one's ego to believe that being opposed to acquiring knowledge makes you a kind of rebel, that not studying and being ignorant is sticking it to the system, but the truth is, it's merely a rationalization for intellectual laziness. The yardstick here is the effort that it takes to make you who you are. It takes no effort to be ignorant, and to measure "brilliance" by someone's ability to screw in a lightbulb or drive a car. It takes considerably more effort to understand how the atom works.

 

In fact, I would argue that the way this economy is actually stunts intelligence. There are many intelligent people working in the for-profit scientific fields that use their intelligence to make things like boner pills instead of something worthwhile like curing cancer.

Now you are conflating a lack of intelligence with a misapplication of intelligence. Just because impotence is not as much of a problem as cancer doesn't mean that designing a "boner pill" takes less intelligence than curing cancer. If you didn't rebel against the system so much by aggressively not learning stuff, I'm sure you'd grasp the difference.

 

I'm intelligent and I have plenty of energy and drive. But money doesn't motivate me, so these traits are moot in the eyes of most women.

I am sorry, but I beg to differ. You are motivated by sheer anger. While it would be unfortunate for someone to be motivated by money, it is not as bad as being motivated by rage, certainly less dangerous in personal relationships. And your views -- not just objectionable, but ill-informed on their face -- on subjects like sexual assault, abortion and cloning are (I guarantee you) what really drives away women who are otherwise into men who have intelligence, energy and drive.

 

Considering the fact that some of the best jobs you can only get by knowing someone, instead of objective ability, this is double true in regards to intelligence. Just because the kid with the most toys wins, doesn't mean he's more intelligent.

Knowing someone is important, but it's secondary to actually acquiring knowledge and skills. Since you are opposed to the very idea of knowledge as a form of "conformism", the issue of having to know someone is moot.

 

Well the fact is that Buddha is in the history books, and will still be talked about years from now. Can you say the same things about yourself? I doubt he would care if you were impressed by him or not.

My opinion of Buddha, or any other historical figure, doesn't depend on what that person would think of it. It's not a popularity contest. I do find it curious, however, that after telling me that education and studying are tantamount to conformism which stunts intelligence, you are directing me to history books of all things, as the final authority on Buddha's intellectual and moral worth. Consistency: you should learn how it works. Many chapters in history books are dedicated to people who are entirely overrated -- and moreover (even more importantly, perhaps), just because someone is in history books and is talked about doesn't mean his or her ideas are the ultimate truth. Where is your rebellion now, tough guy? Need a book to tell you what to think?

[Metis]

Actually the "angry male virgins" are just as sympathetic as anyone else on LS who complains about abuse, cheating, men/women who won't commit, and other manner of ailments. All of those people deserve what they get just as the angry male virgins do. No one should be sympathetic of anyone on here. Sympathy is for losers.

 

No, angry male virgins are not as sympathetic, unless you believe that sex is an entitlement. Abuse involves a willful, deliberate and violent assault against another person's bodily autonomy, and is frequently accompanied by actual physical injuries. Cheating involves the betrayal of another person's trust and sexual exclusivity. These are affirmative wrongs perpetrated by specific individuals against other specific individuals. Virgins are just people who, for whatever reason, haven't gotten anyone to sleep with them. I have less sympathy for them than a victim of abuse or cheating, just like I would feel less sympathy for someone who didn't get as rich as he had hoped than for a victim of a mugging. The idea that women are collectively guilty of assaulting male virgins by violently not having sex with them is just ludicrous, as far as I am concerned.

[fortyninethousand322]

No, angry male virgins are not as sympathetic, unless you believe that sex is an entitlement. Abuse involves a willful, deliberate and violent assault against another person's bodily autonomy, and is frequently accompanied by actual physical injuries. Cheating involves the betrayal of another person's trust and sexual exclusivity. These are affirmative wrongs perpetrated by specific individuals against other specific individuals. Virgins are just people who, for whatever reason, haven't gotten anyone to sleep with them. I have less sympathy for them than a victim of abuse or cheating, just like I would feel less sympathy for someone who didn't get as rich as he had hoped than for a victim of a mugging. The idea that women are collectively guilty of assaulting male virgins by violently not having sex with them is just ludicrous, as far as I am concerned.

 

Well, I still think people who get cheated on, abused, lied to, or manipulated deserve what they get. Just like I deserve being a virgin for life. I think that's fair.

[Mrlonelyone]

@ Metis

 

So angry male virgins here who have been emotionally abused are not sympathetic. While sex is not an entitlement, using feminine wilds and the implied prospect of sex to manipulate people is just as sociopathic as beating someone.

 

Given what you said, Metis, you should conceed that I must be smarter than you since when I am done with school I will be a fully fledged theoretical cosmologist who has one book, two theses (MS and PhD), a well read blog (that Google reports as news often toping the newspapers), and publications in astronomy to their name.*

 

Ha ha! How's it feel?

 

*That's not just trolling it's all true or will be true in the near future.

 

@49332

 

Sadly it does not need to be fair. Life's never fair.

[Anela]

See, I think this is perhaps a gender divide issue, which is why I asked the ladies.

 

Cause here's the thing... I've TRIED dating guys who did the whole "oh your personality is awesome!" And ya know what, they dumped me for girls who had personality AND looks. And that's what I want.... I want a guy who likes BOTH, who doesn't see one as compensation for the other.

 

This kind of goes back to the whole "settling" conversation. Guys seem a-ok with the idea that women are "settling" for them. But it offends and upsets me that a guy is with me only because he can't get a girl who has both looks and personality, and so chooses the girl with personality.

 

I do know what you mean. <3

[Anela]

Well, I still think people who get cheated on, abused, lied to, or manipulated deserve what they get. Just like I deserve being a virgin for life. I think that's fair.

 

You do? I don't know why you think you deserve to be a virgin for life, but the rest of that is awful.

[xoxoDaniellexoxo]

So how the hell can short, fat, balding nerdy guys be confident and have charm?

 

That's what I'm saying doesn't make sense.

 

I have all the rest of the things you listed and they don't count for anything.

I've met a ton of guys like that who aren't attractive but they are so friendly and outgoing that they become more attractive.

[threebyfate]

My friends, however, say I'm being ridiculous, and I should be appreciative that a guy is willing to see my "inner beauty." What sayeth you, LS?

I sayeth that you should patiently wait for a guy who wants all of you.

[Anela]

Yea I have to agree it is way worse for guys than girls when it comes to dating. It is easy for women to disregard what guys go through without actually taking the time to learn how difficult it is. I see women on LS quite frequently dismissing the feelings of some of the unlucky guys and all I do is smh... They have no idea.

 

smh here, too. You have no idea what it's like for *us*, and I don't see much sympathy. Most guys expect us to suck it up and deal - or settle.

[Anela]

I have had a lot of profound struggles in my life. Unfairness in life can manifest in many ways. Some of them are even more painful than being a virgin.

 

The "angry male virgins" who are very abundant around here lately are no more sympathetic than the "angry spinster" female archetype. Fortunately, though she used to be a commonly trotted out figure, we have not been seeing much of her recently.

 

I'm getting there, unfortunately.

[xoxoDaniellexoxo]

One more thing, OP.

 

I don't really have a sense of who you are too much, but I will say that when a person goes for you, it's rarely a "looks vs. personality" situation. They just REALLY LIKE YOU. The whole package, inside and outside. And if it has depth, it can weather stuff like when you gain a few pounds or your boobs get saggy.

 

That's been my experience, anyway.

Haha the saggy boob line was classic!! Or when you are watching the notebook crying due to PMS lol. Good times

[Woggle]

I do notice how on this board it seems impossible for a man to empathize with a man on any level. It's like they think we are emotionless robots or something.

[Anela]

I was feeling sympathetic with you until the very last line that you just lost me.

 

When is the last time you had sex? If the date you're thinking of is within the past six months, then you have it much better than the average loserish guy.

 

If you would seriously trade your experiences for nothing then I'd have to question your intelligence. Unless you have had zero good times from any of the men you've been with, dating and FWB, you've had it better than many men.

 

Seriously, if things are so bad with your FWB, why haven't you left him a long time ago?

 

You're focusing on sex, and she's talking about being *loved*, wholeheartedly.

 

At this point, I wish that I could just meet someone for sex and be happy with that - but I want what she wants. I don't want to settle, or be settled for.

[MaxNoob]

@ Metis

 

So angry male virgins here who have been emotionally abused are not sympathetic. While sex is not an entitlement, using feminine wilds and the implied prospect of sex to manipulate people is just as sociopathic as beating someone.

 

 

Yes, it's amazing that you can sue someone for emotional damage if they scratch your car, but not if they destroy you with mind games. Particularly in a case of unrequited love, where the person is vulnerable and so much damage can be done.

 

When a man loves a woman

Down deep in his soul

She can bring him such misery

If she plays him for a fool

He's the last one to know

Lovin' eyes can't ever see

-Percy Sledge