WS may not leave the M, but they do wander off again...

[Severely Unamused]

Don’t you dare!

 

There is so much great food for thought in this thread. We've all had to learn such hard lessons...

Alright. We can agree that dishonesty is one of the most damaging parts of affairs right? Possibly the most damaging. It pretty much ended my marriage.

 

IMO, I think it largely comes down to our attitudes towards monogamy and non-monogamy. I just want to say that I'm not part of the non-monogamy fan club, and I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with wanting monogamy (but cheating is largely determined by your partner's level of desire for monogamy). I am monogamous in nature, and my stbxH never really showed any interest in other women until he had already emotionally disconnected from me.

 

The thing is, if you have a zero tolerance policy for cheating and if you tell your partner that you have a zero tolerance for cheating, you make it much more difficult for your partner to be communicative if the issue ever comes up. Look at the number of WSs that completely cut their BS off out of fear consequences, instead of being open, honest, and ethical while they have the chance.

 

For me, the idea of being monogamish is that you can accept the possibility of extramarital relationships occuring for whatever reason, sexual or otherwise, and that you can communicate effectively with your spouse before they occur, and come up with a constructive solution. Whatever that solution may be (the issue may be small enough that you can solve it personally).

 

I've been on these boards for a while and there are two notable trends: Poor communication kills. And the stigma behind cheating and affairs ironically leads to a higher chance of them occuring within the relationship.

 

Anyway, that's just my opinion. Good luck finding the 30%.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Severely Unamused

[RickFox]

So we've got all the females responding, so what's the stats when it comes to MW who've had affairs with MM after dday. Do these very same MW attempt to make contact with their xMM when all the dust settles? Do women do that or is it just a guy thing?

[Spark1111]

Alright. We can agree that dishonesty is one of the most damaging parts of affairs right? Possibly the most damaging. It pretty much ended my marriage.

 

IMO, I think it largely comes down to our attitudes towards monogamy and non-monogamy. I just want to say that I'm not part of the non-monogamy fan club, and I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with wanting monogamy (but cheating is largely determined by your partner's level of desire for monogamy). I am monogamous in nature, and my stbxH never really showed any interest in other women until he had already emotionally disconnected from me.

 

The thing is, if you have a zero tolerance policy for cheating and if you tell your partner that you have a zero tolerance for cheating, you make it much more difficult for your partner to be communicative if the issue ever comes up. Look at the number of WSs that completely cut their BS off out of fear consequences, instead of being open, honest, and ethical while they have the chance.

 

For me, the idea of being monogamish is that you can accept the possibility of extramarital relationships occuring for whatever reason, sexual or otherwise, and that you can communicate effectively with your spouse before they occur, and come up with a constructive solution. Whatever that solution may be (the issue may be small enough that you can solve it personally).

 

I've been on these boards for a while and there are two notable trends: Poor communication kills. And the stigma behind cheating and affairs ironically leads to a higher chance of them occuring within the relationship.

 

Anyway, that's just my opinion. Good luck finding the 30%.

 

I applaud any couple that discusses sexuality honestly, period! What many do not realize it that a confused cake-eater wants it all: a faithful, classy, child and home oriented wife, who he may or may not grow bored with, with a sexy, fun, compassionate, totally-devoted, with a heart of gold AP.

 

Madonna/Whore complex anyone? Helllooooo?????

 

The issues, and the rigid gender stereotyping of women is his and and his alone. His wife may be dying for something other than vanilla sex; his AP may make a wonderful mother to his child.

 

But it is his gender=stereotyping that keeps each woman occupying the role he assigns them.

 

He does not want the madonna sexual; he does not want the AP tooo domesticated when he is around.

 

Amd his fragile ego cannot tolerate either woman out their dating or having sex with another man who he may not compare favorably too. He insists or implies both must be exclusively faithful to him and him alone.

[Spark1111]

I agree, I think that is usually the way it goes but it is different in my case. I'm the one who told her the complete unedited truth and we talked, not just about him and I but about her history with him.

 

I view myself as the lucky one, I had no legal, family ties to consider and after I grasped the reality of what and who he really was, it killed any good feelings I had for him. It's not pretty or nice as to what remains regarding my feelings for him.

 

Well kudos to you for your honesty! Rare, very rare indeed.

 

Like QuietStorm has posted, many an OW has been well-groomed by the MM script; the wife is a vicious, bats##t crazy, frigid. moneygrubber!

 

No wonder so, so many OW do not return our phone calls. You have been properly groomed to avoid us at all costs. We are the enemy. And without an enemy, you cannot rescue him from his loveless, lonely life. And without us as the enemy, you would not wait around waiting for him to leave us for the sake of his children, his assets, our instability.

 

But think about this: Without believing the BS is the enemy to this poor, misunderstood, unappreciated man, you would not be there months later to respond to this sad, unloved man!

 

Well-groomed describes it perfectly!

[donnamaybe]

I applaud any couple that discusses sexuality honestly, period! What many do not realize it that a confused cake-eater wants it all: a faithful, classy, child and home oriented wife, who he may or may not grow bored with, with a sexy, fun, compassionate, totally-devoted, with a heart of gold AP.

 

Madonna/Whore complex anyone? Helllooooo?????

 

The issues, and the rigid gender stereotyping of women is his and and his alone. His wife may be dying for something other than vanilla sex; his AP may make a wonderful mother to his child.

 

But it is his gender=stereotyping that keeps each woman occupying the role he assigns them.

 

He does not want the madonna sexual; he does not want the AP tooo domesticated when he is around.

 

Amd his fragile ego cannot tolerate either woman out their dating or having sex with another man who he may not compare favorably too. He insists or implies both must be exclusively faithful to him and him alone.

 

Wow, Spark! You really nailed it with this post!

[Severely Unamused]

What many do not realize it that a confused cake-eater wants it all

 

Amd his fragile ego cannot tolerate either woman out their dating or having sex with another man who he may not compare favorably too. He insists or implies both must be exclusively faithful to him and him alone.

 

Is there anything inherently wrong with being a cake-eater as long as you are honest and ethical about it?

 

The reason I bring this up is because I know a quad, and most people consider them to be cake-eaters since they seemingly get the best of everything. Yet, they are all open with each other and nobody is really getting hurt. As far as I am aware anyway.

 

Also, some of my stbxH's friends thought that he was a cake-eater since we were in a half-open relationship (he has very charming friends doesn't he?). Yet, it was all consensual and everybody was in the know.

 

There are plenty of words to label MMs with. I don't know if "cake-eater" is the best one. "Dishonest" is a good place to start.

 

You are mostly correct about the xMMs though. From what I gathered, very few of mine would've been comfortable with their wives having romantic and/or sexual relationships with other men without getting extremely possessive or angry (apparently, I could be a bit of a sadist about it). And the motives for those that were comfortable were hardly noble: It was either apathy ("the marriage is already dead"), tit-for-tat logic ("well, I'm cheating, so she may as well cheat too"), or guilt alleviation ("we both know how easy it is to have an affair so we can now relate to each other in that sense").

 

Perhaps unhealthy MMs were just attracted to me when I was younger.

[JaneyAmazed]

I haven't read this whole thread, but I do think it depends on who the WS is. For me to "wander off" again would be like sentencing myself to more misery. My marriage is getting back on track and I finally feel like things are getting better. Wandering off isn't even an option. I've said it here before and I'll say it again... The lesson I learned BIG TIME is if my marriage sucks so bad that I feel like I might have to "wander off" again, I will do the right thing and leave. No more deception. I just can't imagine why anyone would want to go through another affair after going through it once. As if the pain isn't bad enough the first time. I would imagine wandering off again is for people like my xOM...He had the ablility to move have multiple affairs with no real heartbreak. The first affair he had, he went back to his xOW as soon as things settled down with his W. As long as his W didn't know, no harm done. I'm sure after I left him, he was on to the next. Everyone is different. I believe it depends on how much remorse you have, how much love and care about your spouse, and much you're willing to make your marriage work and how much you're willing to what's right over what's easy. Building a good marriage after an affair is anything but easy.

[Ruby_shoes]

I haven't read this whole thread, but I do think it depends on who the WS is. For me to "wander off" again would be like sentencing myself to more misery. My marriage is getting back on track and I finally feel like things are getting better. Wandering off isn't even an option. I've said it here before and I'll say it again... The lesson I learned BIG TIME is if my marriage sucks so bad that I feel like I might have to "wander off" again, I will do the right thing and leave. No more deception. I just can't imagine why anyone would want to go through another affair after going through it once. As if the pain isn't bad enough the first time. I would imagine wandering off again is for people like my xOM...He had the ablility to move have multiple affairs with no real heartbreak. The first affair he had, he went back to his xOW as soon as things settled down with his W. As long as his W didn't know, no harm done. I'm sure after I left him, he was on to the next. Everyone is different. I believe it depends on how much remorse you have, how much love and care about your spouse, and much you're willing to make your marriage work and how much you're willing to what's right over what's easy. Building a good marriage after an affair is anything but easy.

 

Well said, and I'm glad your marriage is getting back on track

[Lilith Crane]

It has been nearly a week since I last heard from xMM. I was very firm when telling him to stay away from me. It made me feel strong to have stuck up for myself.

 

Well, as luck (?) would have it, I ran across xMM while going about my normal day. He was agressively flirting and chatting up another woman, not his wife. I looked him right in the face and just shook my head in disbelief.

 

I'm offended and greatly disappointed, but I know I would feel 100x times worse if I had let him back into my life and this happened. So there it is. This one is nothing more than a liar.

 

Just thought you should know...

[SoMovinOn]

It has been nearly a week since I last heard from xMM. I was very firm when telling him to stay away from me. It made me feel strong to have stuck up for myself.

 

Well, as luck (?) would have it, I ran across xMM while going about my normal day. He was agressively flirting and chatting up another woman, not his wife. I looked him right in the face and just shook my head in disbelief.

 

I'm offended and greatly disappointed, but I know I would feel 100x times worse if I had let him back into my life and this happened. So there it is. This one is nothing more than a liar.

 

Just thought you should know...

 

((((Lilith)))))

 

I'm sorry it turned out that way. Good that you got away from it, but... I can imagine your heartbreak.

[Anna101]

I don't think the answer is always so negative, or particularly complicated.

 

I think most of the time, after a DDay they freak out, cling to the security of the family and life they've known and do everything out of the fear of losing that.

 

Once it all dies down, the reasons they had an affair in the first place, OR the love they have for the OW, did not disappear, and so history repeats.

 

Serial cheater are different, another story altogether.

 

I also do believe that most genuinely believe the promises they tell the OW. They think they can leave, but it's only when confronted with the reality of it that they realise they can't do it.

 

Not everyone is lying and horrible....they just simply don't know how to handle it or get out of the hole because either way, you have to hurt someone you love.

[Lilith Crane]

(((SoMovinOn))) thanks for that!

 

Anna101, you're right. The real answer is undoubedly quite complicated and I shouldn't make broad categorizations like here's another liar for the pile. That's not right. It's just that I have spent so much effort in staying away from xMM. I'm trying to simplify matters in my mind because I don't want to give him much headspace. My defenses are up more than ever now.

 

I don't know many details of what is going on in his mind or his life. All I do know is that things are not as fantastic as he would have the world believe. I see him reaching out in the wrong ways. I worry for him, but I can't be there for him. He would make me miserable right along with him.

[Spark1111]

(((SoMovinOn))) thanks for that!

 

Anna101, you're right. The real answer is undoubedly quite complicated and I shouldn't make broad categorizations like here's another liar for the pile. That's not right. It's just that I have spent so much effort in staying away from xMM. I'm trying to simplify matters in my mind because I don't want to give him much headspace. My defenses are up more than ever now.

 

I don't know many details of what is going on in his mind or his life. All I do know is that things are not as fantastic as he would have the world believe. I see him reaching out in the wrong ways. I worry for him, but I can't be there for him. He would make me miserable right along with him.

 

Lilith, while Anna 101 makes some very good points, I encourage you to make any broad categorization that you want to that reinforces what your gut is telling you: One week later, he is chatting up another woman!

 

Wow, that was a pretty fast grieving period, don'tcha think?

 

Not much remorse evident on his part.

 

Trust your gut. It's spot on.

[heartinlove]

I don't think the answer is always so negative, or particularly complicated.

 

I think most of the time, after a DDay they freak out, cling to the security of the family and life they've known and do everything out of the fear of losing that.

 

Once it all dies down, the reasons they had an affair in the first place, OR the love they have for the OW, did not disappear, and so history repeats.

 

Serial cheater are different, another story altogether.

 

I also do believe that most genuinely believe the promises they tell the OW. They think they can leave, but it's only when confronted with the reality of it that they realise they can't do it.

 

Not everyone is lying and horrible....they just simply don't know how to handle it or get out of the hole because either way, you have to hurt someone you love.

 

I agree with you Anna. Some men are truly and deeply conflicted. That has been my experience and the cycle you described fits my situation. Some do believe what they say and the promises and then cant handle the reality when its in front of them, so they stay. They then muster their energy to do the right thing in their eyes and in their families eyes and when it calms down, they realize, that the love for the OW is still there. I would guess many of the MM don't have an easy time with any of this either unless this is a pattern for them to be in affairs.

[heartinlove]

Assuming that is true, why should, would, that sort of behavior be accepted, tolerated? I don't think it should and it wouldn't even come up in a relationship with a sg. We give all these free passes to mm and it's all screwed up from the beginning.

 

Whos to say its accepted or tolerated. Thats why these things end.

 

Of course it doesn't come up with a SG because one persons married in an affair. I don't think anyone thinks its really a great idea to fall in love with a married man, hence why most people say never again. But when its happening, and you don't have any experience in this, it isn't always so easy to navigate. Especially when there is talk of truly being together and having found love and its with someone you know really well.

 

I do agree its screwed up from the beginning, which is why whatever way it goes theres lots of pain. Its a great way to screw up your heart for a good long time.