stop stigmatizing the Over 40, Never Married people!

[frozensprouts]

the original postin this thread reminds me very much of my aunt. she never married, as she never fund the right guy for her. She's a great lady, and had a fedw long term relationships, but they just weren't people she felt ready to commit to spending the rest of her life with.

 

 

The only "regret" that she seems to have is that she never had children. She's in her mid 70's, and she's told me that she'd always wanted kids, but back when she was the age where she was able to have children, there was quite a stigma about being an unmarried mother. It's a shame, as she is great with kids, and she's a very loving, kind person who would have made a geat mom.

[curious5]

@Knitwit OMG your story is similar to mine in so many ways! I'm really not sure why that other poster has it in for me so badly. I know the tone of my original post was not the warmest, but that comes from the frustration of married/divorced people making assumptions about me, and judging me, becaue of my age/marital status. (Especially from divorced people who say that they are better for long term relationships because they showed willingness to to take a leap of faith. That just kills me because I take marriage very seriously and that is exactly why I DIDN"T jump into marriage with my previous LTRs.)

 

Another reason I held out was because I wanted to build a successful career and create a great environment to bring children into before I got married. (One big mistake I made in my early thrties, after building the career, was falling in love with a man who was much older than me and who led me to believe that he was willing to have children with me (Even going so far as talking about baby names, discussing budgets, scheduling the timing for pregnancy around our career schedules etc). After many years with him (and plans to marry) it turned out that he really didn't want children and just wanted me. We went through two couples counselors over the baby issue!) Eventually, I broke it off a few years ago. And here I am.

 

Oh and HE was DIVORCED with a teenage son who lived out of state when we met. I wonder if the "red flags" really belong with the divorced folks, instead of over the heads of those of us who are the "never married" people.

Edited November 9, 2011 by curious5
forgot to mention one thing

[Mircea]

Dear married and divorced folks:

 

I can't believe how many of you think that those of us who are over 40 and have never been married have something "wrong" with us.

 

As I read through these boards and see all of the negative aspects of marriage, I see that my reluctance to marry over the years was actually very level headed.

 

I, along with many friends, have made serveral very conscious decisions NOT to get married just for the sake of getting married. We CHOSE not to settle.

 

I'd rather be single and happy than married and bored/cheated on/unappreciated/sexually frustrated/exhausted etc.

 

I could have been married several times over by now, but I am proud of myself that I didn't go through with any of it. And frankly, I thank my lucky stars that I had enough sense not to enter into such a serious arrangement that statistics say probably won't work out in the end.

 

I've never had to worry about ugly divorce proceedings, child custody etc.

 

Anyway my point is, that just because someone has made the CHOICE not to walk down the aisle by a certain age, does not mean that they are damaged goods.

 

 

Now, if you want to go on a rant, how about the ppl who discriminate heavily against those that choose to be childless.

I can think of a few names i've been called so far ... sellfish, *******, loser, not_having_met_the_right_woman (quite insulting and coming from women).

 

And for those of you who pass judgement on the OP, keep in mind why you are posting here !

Just like the OP, you looked for a forum where you could bytch and moan about your relationships.

[oldshirt]

Interesting thread. I don't know that I or anyone else would think there is something "wrong" with someone over 40 and never married. But I do there there is a "reason" for it.

 

J2oo, Knitwit and Curious all have valid reasons for not marrying. They are not 'defective' in any way however your/their reasons are not something that I can relate to nor anything that I truly feel or understand.

 

You see I DO want to have someone special in my life to share my life with and do things with and to have a home and family with. And I am willing to risk divorce, eventual dissatisfaction, infidelity etc to have it.

 

I've been happily for 16 years and I suppose it is a reality that one of us could wake up tomorrow and start having affairs and get dissatisfied and we could be separated for Christmas and divorced by Valentine's Day. That would surely suck big time but it would not negate the fact that we have had 16 years of happy marriage and wonderful home and family.

 

If I were to end up back on the dating market and I were to encounter a woman such as you or Knitwit or J200, I would not think that there was anything "wrong" with you per se or think that you were defective or damaged goods. But I would assume that our life goals and values and outlooks and perspectives were so different that it really wouldn't be worth trying to establish any kind of meaningful relationship with you.

 

I can't really relate to a 45 female that truly wants to be alone...and she wouldn't want me anyway so what would be the point? And I can't relate to a 45 year old female that is so satisfied with her career and hobbies etc and is so self-fullfilled (notice I did NOT say self-INDULGED ) that a man is merely a pet or a form of amusement as opposed to an actual life-partner.

 

I don't think anything is wrong with that, I simply can not relate to it and don't see how I could fit in to that person's life.

 

However on the other hand I CAN relate to a 45 year woman that did want to have a husband, home and family and did want a life partner and was willing to risk all of the drama and potential problems to have that life.

 

If she went through the torment and turmoil of a divorce, I can relate and understand. I can relate to someone having the dream of love and family and I can understand someone being willing to risk that in order to have it.

[stillafool]

Dear married and divorced folks:

 

I can't believe how many of you think that those of us who are over 40 and have never been married have something "wrong" with us.

 

As I read through these boards and see all of the negative aspects of marriage, I see that my reluctance to marry over the years was actually very level headed.

 

I, along with many friends, have made serveral very conscious decisions NOT to get married just for the sake of getting married. We CHOSE not to settle.

 

I'd rather be single and happy than married and bored/cheated on/unappreciated/sexually frustrated/exhausted etc.

 

I could have been married several times over by now, but I am proud of myself that I didn't go through with any of it. And frankly, I thank my lucky stars that I had enough sense not to enter into such a serious arrangement that statistics say probably won't work out in the end.

 

I've never had to worry about ugly divorce proceedings, child custody etc.

 

Anyway my point is, that just because someone has made the CHOICE not to walk down the aisle by a certain age, does not mean that they are damaged goods.

 

 

Who was doing that? I've never seen those threads. I'm married but I certainly don't think there is anything wrong with not being married at the age of 40. When I was single I loved it and never thought about or worried about getting married because I didn't want children. Of course when I met my husband of like mind I changed my position on marriage but not kids. I wish you the best with your single life as there is much enjoyment to be had.

[oldshirt]

Dear married and divorced folks:

 

 

I'd rather be single and happy than married and bored/cheated on/unappreciated/sexually frustrated/exhausted etc.

 

And frankly, I thank my lucky stars that I had enough sense not to enter into such a serious arrangement that statistics say probably won't work out in the end.

 

I've never had to worry about ugly divorce proceedings, child custody etc.

 

 

Read my other post first but this is kinda what I was getting at. As I said in that post I AM willing to risk those things in order to have love and marriage etc in the first place. And I can understand others who are willing to risk that too.

 

I'll be honest since you have been open honest. What I see in your post is fear and an aversion to risk and being willing to go against human nature due to worrying about "what if?".

 

I do not think you are wrong, defective or damaged goods. I just think you are so guarded and defensive and require such a high level of perfection that I just cannot relate to or understand your position. if I was on the dating market you would not be on my radar screen nor I on your's.

 

We are from two different worlds.

 

Yes, I understand that many married people have had times of unhappiness, despair, infidelity and the carnage of divorce. I just see that as the risk we take and for some it is the price to be paid. Love and marriage and family are not for wimps or pussys.

 

If I were on the dating market again, gimme the 40 divorcee that got unhappy in marriage, cheated or got cheated on and went through a divorce. If she went through that and was still interested in dating at least I would know she had a desire for bonding and wasn't a pussy.

[Mircea]

Interesting thread. I don't know that I or anyone else would think there is something "wrong" with someone over 40 and never married. But I do there there is a "reason" for it.

 

J2oo, Knitwit and Curious all have valid reasons for not marrying. They are not 'defective' in any way however your/their reasons are not something that I can relate to nor anything that I truly feel or understand.

 

You see I DO want to have someone special in my life to share my life with and do things with and to have a home and family with. And I am willing to risk divorce, eventual dissatisfaction, infidelity etc to have it.

 

I've been happily for 16 years and I suppose it is a reality that one of us could wake up tomorrow and start having affairs and get dissatisfied and we could be separated for Christmas and divorced by Valentine's Day. That would surely suck big time but it would not negate the fact that we have had 16 years of happy marriage and wonderful home and family.

 

If I were to end up back on the dating market and I were to encounter a woman such as you or Knitwit or J200, I would not think that there was anything "wrong" with you per se or think that you were defective or damaged goods. But I would assume that our life goals and values and outlooks and perspectives were so different that it really wouldn't be worth trying to establish any kind of meaningful relationship with you.

 

I can't really relate to a 45 female that truly wants to be alone...and she wouldn't want me anyway so what would be the point? And I can't relate to a 45 year old female that is so satisfied with her career and hobbies etc and is so self-fullfilled (notice I did NOT say self-INDULGED ) that a man is merely a pet or a form of amusement as opposed to an actual life-partner.

 

I don't think anything is wrong with that, I simply can not relate to it and don't see how I could fit in to that person's life.

 

However on the other hand I CAN relate to a 45 year woman that did want to have a husband, home and family and did want a life partner and was willing to risk all of the drama and potential problems to have that life.

 

If she went through the torment and turmoil of a divorce, I can relate and understand. I can relate to someone having the dream of love and family and I can understand someone being willing to risk that in order to have it.

 

 

As much as you want to stay positive about ppl over 40 and single, the fact is ... there are quite a few that are damaged goods.

And i'd say that most of those, are men.

 

I do know women who are in their early 40's or late 30's, who are looking for someone (their marriages crumbled because of their xSO), and there are quite a lot of ppl out there who are dating in that age group who have emotional baggage.

 

When you meet someone in their 20's, they are not that good liers, and generally you deal with damage from their upbringing or just plain immaturity.

When you get to them in their 30's, especially early 30's, you end up with ppl who are in a rush to get married ... it's like the night before Christmas and no shopping done, that kind of thing. This is also why i don't date women of my age (29). Hell, last yr i went to 3 marriages where brides were 28-29 and all of them ended up pregnant months after the marriage. o.0

When you get to 40's, you end up meeting cougars, BS with emotional baggage, workaholics and just plain ppl who never grew up.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

As much as you want to stay positive about ppl over 40 and single, the fact is ... there are quite a few that are damaged goods.

And i'd say that most of those, are men.

 

I do know women who are in their early 40's or late 30's, who are looking for someone (their marriages crumbled because of their xSO), and there are quite a lot of ppl out there who are dating in that age group who have emotional baggage.

 

When you meet someone in their 20's, they are not that good liers, and generally you deal with damage from their upbringing or just plain immaturity.

When you get to them in their 30's, especially early 30's, you end up with ppl who are in a rush to get married ... it's like the night before Christmas and no shopping done, that kind of thing. This is also why i don't date women of my age (29). Hell, last yr i went to 3 marriages where brides were 28-29 and all of them ended up pregnant months after the marriage. o.0

When you get to 40's, you end up meeting cougars, BS with emotional baggage, workaholics and just plain ppl who never grew up.

 

Good post. The issue comes back to how the OP presented her points and her opinions on marriage. As for her situation, I just shake my head at the obvious issues she has.

 

A LDR with an older man, already with a child and not letting go, what was a losing proposition. I could go on, but she was the master of her own demise.

 

As for men being the more "damaged goods". I agree 100% and you can see that immediately. You also forgot to add "mamma's boys" to the list too.

 

Women can probably hide their "issues" longer, but any attractive successful woman over 40, who has not even lived with a male in an LTR screams "issues".:laugh:

[curious5]

Good post. The issue comes back to how the OP presented her points and her opinions on marriage. As for her situation, I just shake my head at the obvious issues she has.

 

A LDR with an older man, already with a child and not letting go, what was a losing proposition. I could go on, but she was the master of her own demise.

 

As for men being the more "damaged goods". I agree 100% and you can see that immediately. You also forgot to add "mamma's boys" to the list too.

 

Women can probably hide their "issues" longer, but any attractive successful woman over 40, who has not even lived with a male in an LTR screams "issues".:laugh:

 

OY! It was not an LDR it was an LTR (most of my 30's) with a man who wanted to marry me and SAID he wanted children (And we DID live together - he was the 3rd LTR that I lived with BTW). Something in my gut was just not convinced that he was being truthful about the baby issue. After much couple's counceling the truth was finally revealed - deep down he did not want children, he only wanted me. By that point I was in my late 30's and crushed by the end of our relationship. So now I am 41 unmarried and no children. I don't know why you seem to be hellbent on bashing me...I guess you are one of those people who are qucik to judge and then won't budge.

Edited November 14, 2011 by curious5
typo

[Toodamnpragmatic]

OY! It was not an LDR it was an LTR (most of my 30's) with a man who wanted to marry me and SAID he wanted children (And we DID live together - he was the 3rd LTR that I lived with BTW). Something in my gut was just not convinced that he was being truthful about the baby issue. After much couple's counceling the truth was finally revealed - deep down he did not want children, he only wanted me. By that point I was in my late 30's and crushed by the end of our relationship. So now I am 41 unmarried and no children. I don't know why you seem to be hellbent on bashing me...I guess you are one of those people who are qucik to judge and then won't budge.

 

The teenage son lived out of state..... Apologies.

 

Look I'm sorry about the bad cards you were dealt with men. I asked about living together earlier, which is akin to marriage and you did not answer and you screwed up dating a loser older man, who led you on.

[curious5]

OP's framing of her situation and marriage in general was seemingly anticipated by Charles Dickens:

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Havisham

 

Oh brother. Comments like this are what compelled me to post this thread in the first place. Clearly, you do not get the point that I was trying to make. Thankfully there are several people who do. *sigh*

[Toodamnpragmatic]

The Thread was flawed in how you couched it and the inflammatory nature of the title. You could have posted a # of topics that shed light on your situation and outlined your views, but you came across bitter, and continue that way even now.

 

Let's look at the real issue. You were duped by an older guy, who took you for a ride and took away the best years of your life (yes I am being sarcastic and paraphrasing;):laugh:).

 

If you dig deeper, from what you wrote, you let him as you were as cold and calculating with your career, money and finances as he was. Let me guess, he was at least 15-20 years older, who loved the younger financially independent girl, made out well financially, and said the right things to lead you on, while not really wanting marriage or kids.

 

Now if you said this originally I doubt I would have made a foray into this thread outside to say that many over 40 never married males are in fact narcissists.

 

But you chose a different path and thus the responses.

[PinkInTheLimo]

I don't think it's all that uncommon to be 40+ and not married, depending on your demographics.

 

If you live in an urban area, and are educated, and have a decent job, I think you're in a demographic along with plenty of normal women in their late 30s and up who have never been married. If you don't want kids and have a fulfilling and financially stable career, a social life with supportive friends, and numerous interests, then chances are high you aren't going to settle for a guy who doesn't really knock your socks off and bring something to the table.

 

You don't have to be a man-hater, a love of "bad boys" or unsuitables, or even extraordinarily picky, either. If you have created a Great life for yourself, then you don't need someone else's money or companionship to have your great life. You can truly wait for someone who enhances your life, rather than "completes" it.

 

If you happen to be in this demographic, you will probably 1. haven't had getting married and having kids as a primary life goal; 2. enjoy your own company and aren't afraid of being on your own, so being single isn't a bad thing for you; 3. Implicit is all this, you're probably quite independent.

 

This might be quite different from a lot of people, who have known they wanted to get married and have a family from quite early on. There are a lot of people who have never lived on their own or supported themselves without someone else, so while they might not be afraid per se, they haven't had the experience to know they can do it without much trouble. Also, people who have been in committed relationships early on are likely more interdependent than independent. I don't think any of these things are bad, or that one is worse than the other. They are just different.

 

Unfortunately, I think only time and changing demographics is going to ease up on the stigma. As it is, there are more and more happily single women (divorced, widowed, never-married). There was a recent study that showed single women were considerably better off (happiness and healthwise) than single men. No surprise. Many studies of marriages have found that marriage is a much better deal for men than women, generally speaking.

 

I also smiled at the study that came out that showed that happily married women were the best off of everyone. I thought, "Of course! They are HAPPILY married, of course they are the happiest, healthiest, etc!" But I do think it was an important study, because if you are a woman, it shows that staying in an unhappy marriage probably won't leave you any happier and likely less happy than if you were single.

 

Therefore, it is worth it to wait to get the right guy for you, so that you can do everything possible to ensure you're in one of those Happy Marriages.

 

I write this as a woman who was in that urban, educated, career-oriented demographic. I got married at the ripe old age of 37, and while I did (and do!) love my husband, our primary drive to get married was due to our desire to have a child. I found as I got older that I did want to settle down and have a family.

 

I also had numerous proposals from my mid-20s to late 30s (refused two early on, accepted two in my 30s, and of those two, went one to marry one). None of them were from "bad" guys- they were all suitable, stable, smart, etc. My first fiancee, in particular, I really and truly loved. For a long time, I thought he was the one for me. I could have easily married him- we had the ring and the plans, but ultimately, after trying to work it out, I saw that I couldn't have the life and the family I wanted with him. I wasn't willing to settle on so much, when I knew that once my heart healed, I could have as good and probably a better life without him.

 

It was the right choice for me. I have My Guy, my baby, my career, and while there are still struggles and issues, at the core, I do have the life I wanted. Even if I had to work decades to get there.

 

I don't get the anger at the OP. I don't see anything terrible in what she said. Take a look at the Separating and Divorced board and you will see people posting who saw the red flags from early on but went on to get married. You can take a look at this board and see people are bored/sexually frustrated/cheated on. I think she was WISE to CHOOSE to avoid marrying guys with whom she thought might lead her to those types of outcomes. I think she was very wise to avoid having kids with fellas who she thought would not be in it for the long run.

 

OP, for what it's worth, I don't think you sound cold, calculating, or narcassistic. I think you were pretty smart. In my life, I have seen women fall in love and get married at all ages; 40+ is no exception. One of my dear friends(never-married) is in a great relationship that appears to be marriage-headed at age 46. My husband's aunt(divorced) is in her 60s and just got a proposal. We've celebrated quite few wedding for couples in their 50s. Love is timeless and ageless!

 

So try to ignore the haters (remember that "spinster" can be short-term for Smarter/Luckier than a Divorced Person) and continue building your great life! Make sure there is room should a Great Guy come into the picture! But stick with your current plan of only letting the Really Great Ones in!

 

Thank you! You do indeed get it.

 

I'm 47, never married, no kids. BTW, no man ever proposed to me so I hope that I don't get blamed for being narcistic . I have not dated a lot of guys but I have had some relationships with men I deeply loved. Unfortunately I never felt that they loved me as much I loved them. I have mostly been the dumpee rather than the dumper.

However, when I see what has become of the men who dumped me, they did me a favour!

 

My position is the same as when I was 20. I hope that at some point I meet a man that I can love the way he is and who loves me the way I am. I want a man who really is a partner for me so I don't want the manipulative games I see in many relationships.

While being single I try to have the best life possible. I am financially independent so I don't have to get together with someone because I can't make it on my own. On the other hand, the fact that I have a good financial situation makes me also careful not to fall in the trap of a male golddigger.

 

Life does not end at 40; one can find love at any age.

 

TooDamnPragmatic, I don't understand your attack on the thread starter. From what I read you are quite frustrated in your own marriage. So why are you angry at someone who wants to avoid that kind of longterm frustration? It almost sounds like you consider the opening post as a personal attack on you, I don't understand why.

[PinkInTheLimo]

Women can probably hide their "issues" longer, but any attractive successful woman over 40, who has not even lived with a male in an LTR screams "issues".:laugh:

 

This is such a stupid, stereotypical way of thinking! If what you write is true, one would think that only attractive, succesful people marry and that certainly is not the case.

 

You are confirming what is written in the title: you are stigmatising women over 40 who were never married!

 

Here is the perfect antidote to your opinion, one of the best articles I ever read about this:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/25/fashion/sometimes-its-not-you-or-the-math-modern-love.html?pagewanted=all

[PinkInTheLimo]

As for your first two proposals, boy how passionate and loving.... Too bad there were no rings.....

 

I don't see them as passionate and loving. I see them as controlling. They wanted a woman who would go along with THEIR scenario. If she would have followed that path, she would probably have become a frustrated SAHM.

Knitwit did the wise thing which was to grow her own strong backbone before getting married way too young.

 

Finding someone with whom I can have a real partnership has been the issue for me. Sure the guys I have been with were attached to me. But they also wanted to mould me into something I am not. And afterwards they have moved to less intelligent women who were more "obedient" and... less attractive. Which lasted for a couple of years but went wrong.

[PinkInTheLimo]

@That just kills me because I take marriage very seriously and that is exactly why I DIDN"T jump into marriage with my previous LTRs.

 

Well, it was Sandra Bullock who apparently once said that the reason why she had not been married yet (that was of course before the Jesse James episode) was that she took it too seriously.

 

I myself take relationships very seriously. I am a sensitive person and I try to save myself from emotional turbulence in my life because I know how devastating its impact can be. So I want to be sure that a man is decent before I let him into my life. I also don't want to start living together with someone without having known him for a while.