ScienceGal Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) I have been dating this guy for a few months. We see each other about once a week now and have communicated daily for the past month. Just last week we had a really long talk about a lot of things, it was really nice to be able to talk so freely. One thing discussed was my situation. I'm still hurt and affected by my ex. He has a right to know, so i was open and honest about it. Not only was he understanding, he's been there, with his most recent ex. Last night we finally discussed "us". We clarified what had been assumed. We are not dating or being intimate with other people. Great, right? We agreed to keep moving forward and said that if one of us meets someone else that we are intersted in, we will discuss it immediately (would terminate our dating most likely). Also, if one of us begins to have stronger feelings for the other and wants a greater commitment, we'll communicate that. We are both equally reluctant to take on the "relationship" label. I think it's because it carries this intangible weight. If makes things too real, and neither one of us can take on that emotional burden right now. But... I don't think avoiding the label controls emotional investment. I'm wondering how different being "exclusive" and having the "relationship" label really are. Sexually, things are wonderful. He messages or calls every day. He asks about things I've mentioned and always follows up. I do the same. I feel like we've just both been burned and are confused, tired and scared. Anyone have experience or thoughts about this situation? Edited November 7, 2011 by ScienceGal Link to post Share on other sites
dasein Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Sometimes people focus too much on the labels. Other times people use the lack of labels to do others wrong in a legalistic way. Have never been in the type of deal you describe, which I take to be sexually exclusive without holding out to the world as involved in a relationship, but I guess it could work. If things are good between you wouldn't worry too much about the labels. Link to post Share on other sites
Cypress25 Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Personally, I think this is stupid. It doesn't do you any good to be afraid of certain words in the English language. It's like drinking out of a cup and saying "No, it's not a cup. I don't want to call it a cup because that makes it too real. It's just a container that I pour liquid into. But it's definitely not a cup." Does that sound stupid to you? A relationship doesn't have to be big and scary. Being in a relationship, but not calling it a relationship, doesn't protect either of you from anything. And I don't know what you mean when you say it makes things "too real." You're both real people, aren't you? And you're really dating, right? So if you don't want it to be real, does that mean you want it to be fake? I just don't understand this label-dodging business. Just call it what it is and obsess over something else. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
betterdeal Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... All that matters is it's your kind of duck. Early on in a relationship a mutually agreeable arrangement between two consenting adults, you don't need to declare undying love for each other. In fact, love is something that grows from the shared experiences, joys, tribulations and resolutions you have with each other. Eventually, you shape more in line with each other and that's what's makes you seemingly inseparable. But that shaping is like the shaping of pebbles on a beach being washed by the sea, rather than a hammer and chisel sloughing rocks into pieces. So let your pebbles (or ducks) do their thing; let nature take its course; and just enjoy it, whatever it is. Edited November 7, 2011 by betterdeal Link to post Share on other sites
norajane Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 I'm wondering how different being "exclusive" and having the "relationship" label really are. That depends on how you've both defined it. To me, it sounds like both of you are open to developing stronger feelings for each other, but want to take it slow. You would have the best understanding of how you've defined things between you and where the boundaries are. Link to post Share on other sites
snug.bunny Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Being exclusive means you aren't dating other people, which provides/allows the room for a relationship to grow thus, intimacy... Relationship = a formation between two people. You have both now paved the way for it. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ScienceGal Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 Sometimes people focus too much on the labels. Other times people use the lack of labels to do others wrong in a legalistic way. Have never been in the type of deal you describe, which I take to be sexually exclusive without holding out to the world as involved in a relationship, but I guess it could work. If things are good between you wouldn't worry too much about the labels. Agreed. And I think that because we are both coming from similar situations, it just might work. Neither of us are commitment phobes, or want to date around. Neither one of us wants to hurt the other. We're just trying to be open and honest about the nature of relationships. I'm not worried about the label (I don't need one), I just think that even if left unsaid, an emotional bond will form over time. A relationship doesn't have to be big and scary. Being in a relationship, but not calling it a relationship, doesn't protect either of you from anything. And I don't know what you mean when you say it makes things "too real." You're both real people, aren't you? And you're really dating, right? So if you don't want it to be real, does that mean you want it to be fake? I just don't understand this label-dodging business. Just call it what it is and obsess over something else. Cypress, I can see how this could seem ridiculous. I am looking at it like this... we both have similar dating experiences (and failures), we have similar wants and goals. But, we both understand how much energy a relationship can take out of you. That said, the label really doesn't matter. An emotional connection will form or not. period. So, he and I are "dating". The one difference between dating and a relationship that I have thought of is probably assumed things, such as spending the upcoming holidays together. I don't believe either of us will be meeting the other's family. And thats ok this early on. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... All that matters is it's your kind of duck. Early on in a relationship a mutually agreeable arrangement between two consenting adults, you don't need to declare undying love for each other. In fact, love is something that grows from the shared experiences, joys, tribulations and resolutions you have with each other. Eventually, you shape more in line with each other and that's what's makes you seemingly inseparable. But that shaping is like the shaping of pebbles on a beach being washed by the sea, rather than a hammer and chisel sloughing rocks into pieces. So let your pebbles (or ducks) do their thing; let nature take its course; and just enjoy it, whatever it is. Nice imagery And, seems to be my kind of duck. The open communication and lack of stress and pressure is definitely nice. That depends on how you've both defined it. To me, it sounds like both of you are open to developing stronger feelings for each other, but want to take it slow. . I believe this is exactly it. Baby steps. Being exclusive means you aren't dating other people, which provides/allows the room for a relationship to grow thus, intimacy... Relationship = a formation between two people. You have both now paved the way for it. Thanks snug bunny. I have only good feelings about this situation. I think we're both allowing time for the relationship to grow and just being honest that it's possible we won't end up wanting to be together. We seem to be discussing everthing in depth so that there is no wondering going on for either of us. If it does end, I am confident that it will be in a respectable way. Link to post Share on other sites
oaks Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 I'm not worried about the label (I don't need one), I just think that even if left unsaid, an emotional bond will form over time. How do you introduce each other to friends? You don't have to be worried about, or in need of, a label for it to be convenient to have one. "This is ScienceGal" works, of course, but then someone will ask him "So, she's your girlfriend?". (Maybe the response is "not yet" or "no" - that's fine.) Link to post Share on other sites
Pierre Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 If you are having sex with this man you should be exclusive. What is your point? Link to post Share on other sites
make me believe Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 When I read your OP I thought this sounded silly and like a lot of unnecessary over analyzing. But after reading your follow up, I can see where you're coming from when you say that a key difference in just dating and calling it a relationship is the expectations that usually form as a result of saying "we're in a relationship. you're my boyfriend & I'm your girlfriend." So that kinda makes sense, but at the same time I don't think that refusing to use the word relationship is going to protect you from getting hurt or too involved. Your emotions don't care if he's officially your bf or not. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ScienceGal Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 How do you introduce each other to friends? You don't have to be worried about, or in need of, a label for it to be convenient to have one. "This is ScienceGal" works, of course, but then someone will ask him "So, she's your girlfriend?". (Maybe the response is "not yet" or "no" - that's fine.) We say that we are dating. If you are having sex with this man you should be exclusive. What is your point? My point was we finally verbalized that we are not seeing nor sleeping with anyone else. We are both enjoying our time together but aren't ready for the relationship title. I've never been a multi dater, so for me this clarification doesn't change how I'll treat him. I am just trying to think about what it means and for how long it can be sustained before one person wants more (we agreed to just stay honest about how we're feeling). I think the only difference with being exclusive but not in a relationship is perhaps keeping things slightly more distant (less details about my day, no talk of meeting the family, etc). I'm ok. It's just a curious situation. Link to post Share on other sites
Pierre Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 I've never been a multi dater, so for me this clarification doesn't change how I'll treat him. I am just trying to think about what it means and for how long it can be sustained before one person wants more (we agreed to just stay honest about how we're feeling). I think the only difference with being exclusive but not in a relationship is perhaps keeping things slightly more distant (less details about my day, no talk of meeting the family, etc). I'm ok. It's just a curious situation. I think that awful term "exclusive" only applies to multi-daters and those that sleep with many simultaneously. In my book the two of you are GF/BF and not using the term is BS. Link to post Share on other sites
Pierre Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 OP Why is it so easy to have sex with someone and so hard to discuss the relationship? Link to post Share on other sites
betterdeal Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Reserve your right to silence, SG! Link to post Share on other sites
Author ScienceGal Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 I think that awful term "exclusive" only applies to multi-daters and those that sleep with many simultaneously. In my book the two of you are GF/BF and not using the term is BS. There is a period of time where people are still getting to know each other. Whether or not that involves sex is up to the two people involved. I've never been sexual with someone that I wasn't in an established relationship with. So, this is different for me. BS? Maybe. Or two people trying to figure out the best way to establish if there is long term potential or not. Link to post Share on other sites
Mrlonelyone Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 The reason we have these distinctions is because multidating people exist. Two people can have a relationship where they date every once in a while. It does not mean they are off the market. They are like someone shopping around. No committment is implied. Exclusivity needs to be discussed and is never implied by anything but a talk. Which makes me glad that you had the talk you did with your BF. You know just where you stand with him. As for multidaters and sex. People who multidate tend to be unsentimental about things. They have been in relationships before and understand that sexual compatibility is a large issue in relationships. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ScienceGal Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 Reserve your right to silence, SG! I don't think there is anything wrong with what I'm doing. So I felt like being sexual before a relationship is established, big deal! I'll communicate honestly and strive to do no harm. I trust he is doing the same. Such is life. All I can do is make the best possible choices with the information that I have. I must say this situation is actually MUCH healthier than my previous relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
betterdeal Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) I don't think there is anything wrong with what I'm doing. So I felt like being sexual before a relationship is established, big deal! I'll communicate honestly and strive to do no harm. I trust he is doing the same. Such is life. All I can do is make the best possible choices with the information that I have. I must say this situation is actually MUCH healthier than my previous relationship. I agree with you - I don't think there's anything wrong either and it all sounds good to me: You're happy; he's happy; no-one's hurt. I do think that your query had been answered to your satisfaction, so further discussion is unnecessary, especially when it's turned into meeting someone else's standards (i.e. Pierre's). Edited November 7, 2011 by betterdeal Link to post Share on other sites
Pierre Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 I agree with you - I don't think there's anything wrong either and it all sounds good to me: You're happy; he's happy; no-one's hurt. I do think that your query had been answered to your satisfaction, so further discussion is unnecessary, especially when it's turned into meeting someone else's standards (i.e. Pierre's). My standard is that OP would be better off is she was in a committed relationship. As of now she is putting the carriage in front of the horse and allowing herself to fall big time in love. This allergy to be GF/BF sounds like "I am waiting for someone better than you" or "I want to keep my options open, AKA cake eating". At least he is stringing her along openly, I give him credit for that. Link to post Share on other sites
snug.bunny Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 OP Why is it so easy to have sex with someone and so hard to discuss the relationship? Did you miss the part where she/they did? It's detailed in the opening post. Link to post Share on other sites
blueskyday Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 A relationship IS the situation between two people. I have a relationship with my neighbor. We are neighbors. I have a relationship with my children. I am their mother. And, I have a relationship with any guy I sleep with. He is my "boyfriend." Simple, but it has become very confusing lately. Over the past few years I have had "relationships" that are either called or not called relationships. They include: 1. A guy who I was sleeping with and considered my boyfriend said we were both single, just not dating others...WTF? Technical definition alert: not married. Funny, I thought we were a "couple" so that made him NOT single...still confused... 2. A guy who I was sleeping with, exclusive relationship but no consistent dates...and no emotional component. He wasn't there for me during emergencies. He also introduced me as a "friend" at a company Christmas party.....so exclusivity and monogamy, but no real "relationship."...ugh..that lasted eight months while I waited for him to fall in love with me, which never happened so I bailed. 3. The last guy (who was a friend I was hanging out with) wanted to sleep with me, without benefit of relationship. When I told him I only sleep with guys who are my boyfriend, he pulled the old "I hate labels." To which I said, okay, so what do you want to do? He said let's date exclusively, but not sleep together because I know that means a commitment to you...Okay, so i replied, "Why not just be friends, then? What's the point of no sex." Fast forward, he decided he wanted a "relationship" with me afterall.... My head spins. What has happened over the past few years? I don't want to sleep with any guy who is not my boyfriend and putting some emotional energy into the whole deal. I sure as heck don't want to date some guy who is waiting around for someone better to date. I want him to think I'm pretty awesome. If he later wants to date someone else, then I would hope he had enough integrity to leave first...but I don't want to go into the whole thing with the mentality of "until something better comes along." Give me an old fashioned guy any day. I feel like a fish out of water. I really do. Any guy who can't label you a girlfriend or what you are doing is a relationship has issues. I understand that a relationship doesn't have to be heavy. It's whatever you agree to. There are stages of commitment, and you may never get past the first one, which is monogamy and exclusivity. The ultimate stage of commitment is marriage, living together, etc. and comes after the initial commitment of seeing only each other, cutting off other options and giving each other emotional energy. That's simple. You do that for as long as you want. If it doesn't work out, you break up. If it does work out, things move forward. I just wouldn't worry about calling what you have a "relationship." It is one. The great thing is that all relationships are negotiable, and you two have negotiated yours quiet nicely. I don't think it is too much to ask for a simple commitment in exchange for access to your heart and body. So, I wouldn't give in to the fear of a relationship label. I would simply define what kind of relationship I want, and what that looks like in terms of time spent together, energy, communication, etc. Have fun! Link to post Share on other sites
xpaperxcutx Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 My standard is that OP would be better off is she was in a committed relationship. As of now she is putting the carriage in front of the horse and allowing herself to fall big time in love. This allergy to be GF/BF sounds like "I am waiting for someone better than you" or "I want to keep my options open, AKA cake eating". At least he is stringing her along openly, I give him credit for that. And the chances of this happening is extremely high since those who are afraid of " relationships" are usually the ones who are desperate to be in one. ( I'm using the word loosely here). A relationship IS the situation between two people. Seconded. Link to post Share on other sites
blueskyday Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 (edited) Oh, and I forgot about the guy who wanted to be FWB. I told him I didn't want that kind of relationship. He said it wasn't a "relationship." "Make no mistake," I told him, "It is a relationship, and I don't like the terms of it." Yikes. We define our connections to people and our situations as relationships. It's the terms that confuse people, and all that needs to be discussed so everyone is on the same page. I once had a boyfriend who thought a "committed relationship" meant marriage. I understood. We simply had different ideas and defnitions, and needed to discuss them...but, then again, this was the guy who said while we were sleeping together and agreed upon boyfriend/girlfriend that he was "single" just not dating others...I'm sorry, weren't we a "couple" which means you aren't "single?" ....(cue head spin...) Edited November 8, 2011 by blueskyday Link to post Share on other sites
Pierre Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 My head spins. What has happened over the past few years? I don't want to sleep with any guy who is not my boyfriend and putting some emotional energy into the whole deal. Give me an old fashioned guy any day. I feel like a fish out of water. I really do. Any guy who can't label you a girlfriend or what you are doing is a relationship has issues. I agree with all your points even though I only quoted a few. All these new terms are the creation of men that have somehow convinced women they should give them sex on demand and expect little in return. Some of these guys don't even give an orgasm in return to the women. The term that gets me the most is the one about exclusivity. If I am dating a woman and she implies she is not exclusive I advise her to take a hike. IN any event I give a ton of credit for OP for being exclusive even though she seems to be in a limbo type relationship with benefits. The thing is that the sex will eventually make her fall in love. IN fact, I think she already has feelings for the guy even though he refuses to call her a GF. Link to post Share on other sites
xpaperxcutx Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 IN any event I give a ton of credit for OP for being exclusive even though she seems to be in a limbo type relationship with benefits. The thing is that the sex will eventually make her fall in love. IN fact, I think she already has feelings for the guy even though he refuses to call her a GF. Pierre, I'm highlighting this because I think you've completely hit the main point. Most women cannot separate sex from emotions and even if they can, it is always shortlived. Link to post Share on other sites
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