Being exclusive, but not in a relationship

[carhill]

'hey, this is my boyfriend Alex'

 

Done.

 

I recall, now laughing derisively, something my former MW, later OW told me after we got reacquainted; she and her 'man' had been 'dating' for eight years, were living together and he still introduced her as his 'office manager'. She whined incessantly about him never introducing them as a couple. A little competition from yours truly solved that problem. He even bought a house with her. Now that's one gal who knows how to take okra and make lemonade

 

Just call him your boyfriend. He'll get over it.

 

Experience? Every woman I've ever had a relationship with, including my ex-wife, was proudly introduced as my girlfriend *before* I started making love with them, generally a couple months into 'the relationship'. One data point.

[ScienceGal]

I tend to think about everything a lot, and this is no exception. Thank you all for your responses as they have helped my thought process.

 

This is the first time that I've separated sex and emotion. That doesn't mean I don't care, it means that I am avoiding investing everything simply because we've been intimate. That physical relationship means something, but it only carries real weight if the other aspects of a relationship are formed. And, that is the goal. I've made the mistake of emotionally leaping before I was confident the non-physical aspects of a relationship were clear and working well. Would I be upset if it all ended today? Sure. Would I be devastated? No. And I consider that a growth in my own emotional maturity.

 

That said, this one foot in and one foot out scenario cannot be sustained, and I do not plan to uphold it long term. If we're both feeling "it", and it seems we are, it should only be a short time before we're ready to let the last of our guards down. Label or no label though, feelings are developing, and if I get to the point where I want more and he doesn't, I will end things. I'm confident things will work out, and I am certain that no matter what, I will be just fine.

Edited November 8, 2011 by ScienceGal

[ScienceGal]

Ok, so the "one foot in, one foot out" scenario is already starting to bother me. I know, I know, that didn't take long! And most of you pointed out how you disagreed with being "exclusive" but not in a "relationship".

 

Unfortunately, I do not like the feeling of a relationship based primarily on sex. I went to a party last night that friends of mine threw (husband/wife). I've always admired what married people have, but it's really hitting me now. The little imperfect house, the cats and dogs running around, the way they plan their lives together. I want all of those things and I'm not sure if I'm going down the right path with this guy.

 

I really don't like the feeling that we are just seeing one another and will be honest if we meet someone new. Or, we'll decide to be more serious with one another. That seems so ridiculous now that I've really thought about it.

But, I suppose that is how relationships go anyway, there are no guarantees.

 

I want him to bring up that he wants more of a commitment. I feel like I've driven how far this has gone already, and I want him to take the lead now. I need to clearly see how much he cares. Knowing me, I will say something eventually, I just wish I didn't have to.

[moontiger]

I want him to bring up that he wants more of a commitment. I feel like I've driven how far this has gone already, and I want him to take the lead now. I need to clearly see how much he cares. Knowing me, I will say something eventually, I just wish I didn't have to.

 

SG It sounds like your last breakup really devastated you, and within a few weeks you began dating someone whom you had few feelings for. And you basically came out and told him you weren't feeling it, and for reasons I don't understand he hung around anyway.

 

It seems like you got into a "safe" relationship, where you held all the cards and were not emotionally invested, to re-equilibriate and regain self-esteem; to be the less invested partner and regain some sense of control. But anyway it sounds like until now this "relationship" has been really imbalanced, in your favor.

 

The problem with pendulums is that after they've swung one way, they most often swing the other.

Edited November 14, 2011 by moontiger

[thatone]

exactly.

 

SG reminds me of an ex of mine. and that's not an insult, mind you, well at least not entirely.

 

like her, SG seems to be pretty confident, smart, and honest. so i gave this particular ex more control than i'm used to giving up.

 

and what did i get for that? however much i gave wasn't enough, she always pushed the envelope, until i wouldn't be pushed anymore then she broke up with me, out of the blue.

 

lesson: don't give a single woman the benefit of the doubt, ever. because no matter how smart, confident, and mature they are they don't know what they want, the only thing they're sure of is imagining that it's someone else's fault when the thing they don't know they want fails to magically occur.

 

SG, in your last post you basically said that all of your jealousy of your friends' marriages and LTRs is now on the shoulders of the man you're dating, and if he doesn't read your mind and offer that to you, it's his fault that you aren't happy. you're pre-blaming him for something he hasn't even done (or failed to do) yet, by creating an impossible obstacle that no normal person will overcome.

 

listen to how utterly and completely ridiculous that sounds...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

....then go ahead and break up with him anyway . it's obvious that's what you're going to do. but either way stop trying to find a way to blame him for it.

Edited November 14, 2011 by thatone

[FitChick]

I can see this guy at a Christmas party, approached by an attractive woman who asks, "So are you in a relationship?" He replies, "No, I'm just dating right now." He'd be more attracted to a woman who openly wanted him than someone who didn't initially, and with whom sex has become a comfortable habit. It's called leaving your options open.

[ScienceGal]

You're right moontiger, the pendulum certainly does swing, and until now I didn't have much to worry about. I've been pretty neutral and emotionless inside. I can feel myself pulling out of that though. I want to move forward with a good guy for once. Is that going to happen with this guy, I don't know yet. What I do know is that I have been honest and now I'm struggling to understand what I am feeling and if this arrangement of ours can go on. I need to put it all into words before I can communicate it to him.

 

When he and I spoke just a couple weeks ago about what "we" were, I did not tell him I wasn't interested; in fact, we both felt the same way in terms of not wanting to rush things. We're both coming from a similar place relationship wise and have common values and goals. We're both being cautious. Keep in mind, he has his own sets of thoughts too. So, we both have the ability to think, doubt, delay, act or leave. We both have the risk of getting hurt.

 

I was ok with the "no label", but this past week has made me rethink it. There have been a few things that have made me feel uneasy:

 

We see each only once a week. Always a sleep over, always sex. He messaged me the other night saying that he wishes I was there because he'd really like to have sex with me. I don't like feeling like that's all he's getting out of it. I don't believe that it is since he always asks me about my day, and seems caring in general. Not to mention, he isn't a flirt that makes sexual comments. That's the first one, other than normal compliments. So, it was an isolated incident, but still rubbed me the wrong way. We never said that we were having just a sexual relationship... and I was fooling myself into thinking I could separate the physical and emotional. I still am separating them, as much as I can, but it's just not me.

 

I've made several comments about "looking forward to seeing him" and being "excited to hang out". When he responds, it's not to reciprocate such feelings.

 

He is debating changing something about his appearance but said he doesn't want to "lose his sex appeal to women". (Doesn't make me feel like he is too into me)

 

I've realized that he's pretty scarred too. He made the comment recently that we can "both be f'd up together". This scared the living daylights out of me. I don't want to be f'd up with anybody! I want to be happy. And for starters, that means determining whether the pseudo relationship I am in has potential.

 

Thatone, I am sorry your ex let you down, but don't let that prevent you from giving someone the benefit of the doubt. Just look for the red flags and be careful with your heart. Often times we lie to ourselves when we care about someone, and we end up getting burned by those lies.

 

I am not jealous of my friends, I just see that the dynamic of their lives and their relationships is what I want. (There are plenty that show me what I don't want as well). I want the stability and the security. I want the love, trust and companionship. There is nothing wrong with this, it's what most people strive for. What I am finally acknowledging is that many of the relationship choices I've made in my life have prevented me from getting there. I've picked men who don't have the capacity to be a great long term partner. I own those poor decisions. I am not looking to blame anyone, I am just trying to move forward by making better decisions.

 

So, I'm trying to stay relaxed with this situation, but I'm also looking out for myself. I'm trying to determine whether this has the potential to turn into a healthy relationship by understanding my feelings/choices AND his.

 

I do all I can to be good and true, but I'm also exhausted trying to figure everything out.

[betterdeal]

What are you afraid will happen if you accept the emotional bond?

 

Work like you don't need the money

Dance like no-one is looking

Love like you've never been hurt

 

As is often said here, actions speak louder than words. Despite the two of you playing cool and saying things that suggest you're not fussed about this, he's *not* a flirt and *not* seeing other women, and you're the same. These are the actions of two monogamous people.

 

There can be no peace if your words do not match your actions

 

Your cognitive dissonance stems from saying it's casual but actually, it's not for you. So make changes. Tell him you've thought about it and, actually, you're a one-man kind of woman and you don't want to mess around. You're either in or you're out. That doesn't mean you have to be in each other's pockets all the time, but it does mean this aspect of your life is exclusive, is monogamous, and is sincere. And you'd like to spend some more time together - more than once a week. Again, not 24/7, but more than one night a week.

 

Nothing changes until you do

 

Accept who you are and what you want. Don't be afraid of the consequences of asking for what you want.

[thatone]

exactly. that was my whole point. you defined the nature of the relationship, and are now telling us that you've decided that you want it to be different and you want him to read your mind and offer that to you, with you giving him nothing to go on suggesting that.

 

so like i said, your planned course of action is completely ridiculous. there is no way that you can preserve the idea that it's his fault if it doesn't work out the way you want it to.

 

if you want more from him you have to tell him and accept the fact that he may very well reject you.

 

either way the responsibility is on you, not him.

[Pierre]

As of now the relationship is FWB, nothing else.

[moontiger]

exactly. that was my whole point. you defined the nature of the relationship, and are now telling us that you've decided that you want it to be different and you want him to read your mind and offer that to you, with you giving him nothing to go on suggesting that.

 

What thatone said--said what I was thinking but couldn't put into words.

 

And SG, sure every relationship has inherent risk, but there is risk and there is gratuitous risk. Getting up and getting out of bed is risky. Bungee jumping into a shark tank is gratuitous. Rebounds this fast, where sex happens this fast, are usually very high-risk situations.

 

Here's the thing. If you really genuinely like a guy and he likes you and you are right for each other, in my experience the whole thing can wait a couple of months. Especially having sex, which starts the whole hormone flood that attaches you to someone whether or not he's right for you.

 

I'm 32. So I know what it is to want to meet The One and find that stability that your friends have. But I'm going to tell you that you are going to waste a lot more time and pick up a lot more baggage if you get into a bad relationship now than if you just wait three months to clear your head. Based on what you are writing, this one is already showing all kinds of red flags to me. It's easy in principle to say one will look at the red flags and be careful, but it's hard to see one's own situation objectively. At least, that has been my experience.

 

I see you saying over and over again "well, I just want to see if this has potential" and continuing to move forward. "Well, I'll just go on one date." "Well, I'll just start sleeping with him." "Well, I'll just ask him for a commitment." "I can always back out."

 

There is an old story about a monkey who had decided not to eat a banana. He started saying "well, I'll just touch the banana; no harm in that. Now I'll just hold the banana. Now I'll just peel the banana." Eventually of course, the banana got eaten.

 

In your late 20's-30's, dates and sex and pseudorelationships basically lead to LTRs if you let them. And here's the thing; it's hard to leave a long-term relationship. It's hard to lose the security and go back to being alone. It's hard even if he's completely wrong for you, and you got together mainly because you just got dumped and he was there, and of the 234 men who asked you out immediately post-breakup, he was the right person for your immediate post-breakup self because he had baggage too.

 

Here's what I see. You got into a pseudo-relationship when you weren't at all in a good state of mind, and still deeply upset over your ex. You set the tone as FWB because that's what you wanted at the time, and you got with someone who was a fit for the unhappy, frightened post-breakup you. You are starting to return to your normal self, not the really aloof guarded person who you temporarily were a couple of months ago. Very likely, this guy is no longer a fit for you.

 

Very probably, you attracted someone who wasn't happy. I say this for two reasons:

 

1. Your saying

I've realized that he's pretty scarred too. He made the comment recently that we can "both be f'd up together".

 

2. Most men who are emotionally healthy and in the right place for an LTR don't hang around when a woman says to them "well, I'm not really that into you, but let's keep having sex."

 

They say "I like you but I'm looking for more than that. Come back in six months."

 

I guess--well, I might be projecting my own experience; we all do.

 

But if you really are looking for a stable LTR that is going toward marriage, my gut feeling based on what you are writing is that this pseudorelationship or whatever is not a great idea. It's not a great idea, no matter how much you rationalize things and say you're protecting yourself and that every human interaction is a risk. FWB is not protecting yourself emotionally. This guy is telling you he is f'ed up. Here is something really important I've learned: When people tell you who they are, listen.

 

IMO? Take a couple of months off dating. Love yourself. Make a list of things you really want in a guy. And about the good and less good qualities in yourself.

 

Go to Meetup. Really take the time to heal, not just to springboard into sex and dating again because you feel like you should or because you want to make up for lost time.

 

It's cliched, but--especially when one has been choosing the wrong men--I think it works.

 

At least, I hope it does.

Edited November 15, 2011 by moontiger

[ScienceGal]

I'm 32. So I know what it is to want to meet The One and find that stability that your friends have. But I'm going to tell you that you are going to waste a lot more time and pick up a lot more baggage if you get into a bad relationship now than if you just wait three months to clear your head.

I think it's quite possible that I will never clear my head. Before my previous relationships I took 10 months to myself. No dating, no even considering it. And then I met my ex, the guy that led me to write on this forum.

 

Based on what you are writing, this one is already showing all kinds of red flags to me. It's easy in principle to say one will look at the red flags and be careful, but it's hard to see one's own situation objectively. At least, that has been my experience.

 

I feel like I am focusing on anything that could be considered a red flag and skew it a bit in that direction just in case. This is unfair and I should really stop doing it. If it's legitimate, then fine. But mostly, there are days like today and yesterday where he is nothing but sweet. I wasn't feeling well and he checked on me. One of my family members was injured and he checked in about that too. He asks about my day, every day.

Very probably, you attracted someone who wasn't happy

But if you really are looking for a stable LTR that is going toward marriage, my gut feeling based on what you are writing is that this pseudorelationship or whatever is not a great idea. It's not a great idea, no matter how much you rationalize things and say you're protecting yourself and that every human interaction is a risk. FWB is not protecting yourself emotionally. This guy is telling you he is f'ed up. Here is something really important I've learned: When people tell you who they are, listen.

He seems happy, although it's as if we are each waiting for the other shoe to fall. Waiting for the other to become someone who is bad, someone like the ex, or worse. We are both in this ridiculous standoff. I hate thinking that any potential is down the drain since we both put ourselves in this predicament.

 

IMO? Take a couple of months off dating. Love yourself. Make a list of things you really want in a guy. And about the good and less good qualities in yourself.

I've done a lot of thinking in regards to relationships. It has become apparent to me that my long-term partner will not be someone that I am intensely attracted to in the beginning. Why? Because I am attracted to jerks. And as soon as I realize they are a jerk, I still stay and feed myself a ton of lies. I bargain and compromise because I don't want to lose that crazy connection. It's like a drug, and it's sick. My attraction to a long term partner will have to grow on more than that initial passion. I have to find him attractive, of course. But, that chemistry will have to be built upon time, love, trust and respect. That's the type of connection that lasts. He has to have the qualities I want (and I have written them down). It's about time I grow up and realize the type of man I say I want is not the type of man I ever give a chance to.

 

And I know this works because the best relationship I ever had was with a man that I didn't give the time of day to at first. And actually, I was a wreck from ending things with my high school boyfriend. He was a saint to stay with me, but he did and we had a wonderful 3 year relationship. I got over the ex and realized that I could love and be loved. Life was good. We ultimately ended up being at different points and wanting different things (he was older) and we split amicably. I see that since him, I've never given a decent man a shot. I didn't realize this fact until recently.

 

All I can do is make the best possible decision with the information that I have. So, I'm not going to end things with this guy right now. I agree with Betterdeal in that I just have to ask for what I want, no regrets. I can't make good decisions without talking to him and bringing his side of things to light. So, this weekend, he and I are going to talk.

 

Moontiger, thank you for the very thoughtful response. I also agree with you in that I could really be hurting myself in the long run. It's certainly a risk, though I don't think a gratuitous one.

Edited November 15, 2011 by ScienceGal

[thatone]

What thatone said--said what I was thinking but couldn't put into words.

 

And SG, sure every relationship has inherent risk, but there is risk and there is gratuitous risk. Getting up and getting out of bed is risky. Bungee jumping into a shark tank is gratuitous. Rebounds this fast, where sex happens this fast, are usually very high-risk situations.

 

Here's the thing. If you really genuinely like a guy and he likes you and you are right for each other, in my experience the whole thing can wait a couple of months. Especially having sex, which starts the whole hormone flood that attaches you to someone whether or not he's right for you.

 

I'm 32. So I know what it is to want to meet The One and find that stability that your friends have. But I'm going to tell you that you are going to waste a lot more time and pick up a lot more baggage if you get into a bad relationship now than if you just wait three months to clear your head. Based on what you are writing, this one is already showing all kinds of red flags to me. It's easy in principle to say one will look at the red flags and be careful, but it's hard to see one's own situation objectively. At least, that has been my experience.

 

I see you saying over and over again "well, I just want to see if this has potential" and continuing to move forward. "Well, I'll just go on one date." "Well, I'll just start sleeping with him." "Well, I'll just ask him for a commitment." "I can always back out."

 

There is an old story about a monkey who had decided not to eat a banana. He started saying "well, I'll just touch the banana; no harm in that. Now I'll just hold the banana. Now I'll just peel the banana." Eventually of course, the banana got eaten.

 

In your late 20's-30's, dates and sex and pseudorelationships basically lead to LTRs if you let them. And here's the thing; it's hard to leave a long-term relationship. It's hard to lose the security and go back to being alone. It's hard even if he's completely wrong for you, and you got together mainly because you just got dumped and he was there, and of the 234 men who asked you out immediately post-breakup, he was the right person for your immediate post-breakup self because he had baggage too.

 

Here's what I see. You got into a pseudo-relationship when you weren't at all in a good state of mind, and still deeply upset over your ex. You set the tone as FWB because that's what you wanted at the time, and you got with someone who was a fit for the unhappy, frightened post-breakup you. You are starting to return to your normal self, not the really aloof guarded person who you temporarily were a couple of months ago. Very likely, this guy is no longer a fit for you.

 

Very probably, you attracted someone who wasn't happy. I say this for two reasons:

 

1. Your saying

 

2. Most men who are emotionally healthy and in the right place for an LTR don't hang around when a woman says to them "well, I'm not really that into you, but let's keep having sex."

 

They say "I like you but I'm looking for more than that. Come back in six months."

 

I guess--well, I might be projecting my own experience; we all do.

 

But if you really are looking for a stable LTR that is going toward marriage, my gut feeling based on what you are writing is that this pseudorelationship or whatever is not a great idea. It's not a great idea, no matter how much you rationalize things and say you're protecting yourself and that every human interaction is a risk. FWB is not protecting yourself emotionally. This guy is telling you he is f'ed up. Here is something really important I've learned: When people tell you who they are, listen.

 

IMO? Take a couple of months off dating. Love yourself. Make a list of things you really want in a guy. And about the good and less good qualities in yourself.

 

Go to Meetup. Really take the time to heal, not just to springboard into sex and dating again because you feel like you should or because you want to make up for lost time.

 

It's cliched, but--especially when one has been choosing the wrong men--I think it works.

 

At least, I hope it does.

 

 

i think that's a bit much, he probably meant that comment jokingly.

 

we don't really know all that much about him. everything she says about him actually seems positive.

 

either way all of this discussion is semantics. she wants a relationship without any of the risk of a relationship, and is getting ready to blame this guy for not being able to conjure something that doesn't exist out of thin air. to make sure he doesn't do so, she's not even going to tell him that's what she wants.

 

all of which is selfish, unfair, rude, and a dozen or so other negative descriptions that don't come to mind right away.

 

but on the other hand i will admit, effective. because when she springs all of this on him and doesn't even have a good reason for her actions, he will have plenty of anger/hate/disrespect/etc for her, so it will do what she wants (get rid of him), albeit in the worst way possible.

 

then she can hone her blaming skills since it worked out so well this time and start blaming men for everything. when she doesn't have a man it'll be his fault. when she does and isn't happy it'll be his fault. when someone she is attracted to doesn't ask her out it'll be his fault. when someone does ask her out and she isn't satisfied with the first date it'll be his fault.

 

and all of that can culminate in when she's alone at a ripe old age, she can think about all of those men from the past and how it's ALL their fault.

 

forming destructive habits is great, isn't it?

[moontiger]

i think that's a bit much, he probably meant that comment jokingly.

 

I don't know what he meant. All I do know is that his joke worried SG enough that she's writing on a message board about it, which means she probably sensed some truth in it. Anyway she's really the only person who can judge that.

 

Personally I don't think it matters that much whether she or he cracks and talks about commitment first. All I know is that if my best friend had gotten dumped, and had marriage as her long-term goal, the situation SG is in,

 

entering a new "relationship" while still experiencing severe angst over breakup ->

f'buddies with a guy she has no feelings for->

sex->

getting attached->

mind games

 

is not a road I personally would encourage her to go down. Sure, it can work. I've personally seen it work. But it's the exception, not the rule.

 

That's all; I've said my piece, and as I hate being a wet blanket, I'm not going to harp on it.

 

I hope nothing more than to see SG come back a year later and tell me I was totally wrong, and that things went great and the guy was awesome.

Edited November 16, 2011 by moontiger

[chimason]

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