How do you do it?

[carhill]

My advice, since you are ambivalent as well as since you like to analyze things and ruminate over things before making important decisions would be to look at marriage practically, even writing things down in a journal, investigating, in your culture where you live, the real positives and negatives about the marital contract, as well as, perhaps with the benefit of PMC, the emotional reasons for or against getting married for yourself. Do this as a team. A healthy partner will standing right next to you, surely with a mind and heart of his own, but standing with you as you both examine this together and reach a decision together.

 

Retrospectively, my error was not recognizing the lack of proactive interaction and/or support from/with my exW during this process. She 'let' it happen. This is one area where I can see the perspective of the younger men here who say to encourage the woman to drive the relationship milestones. This proactive and expressed desire indicates her willingness to stand with the man and not merely 'let' him be with her. Both parties should be proactive but in a balanced way. In my courtship and marriage, I believe it was unbalanced. That's not my exW's 'fault', but both of our responsibilities. Perhaps I'm too 'forward' about clear direction and commitment in relationships and, with her, she didn't feel a strong enough voice to stand next to me and 'let' it happen and, deep down, had her doubts. Some of that came out in MC though it wasn't definitive. It was enough for me to re-examine my 'style' and further reading on LS has supported that journey.

 

Your journey will be your own.

[TigerCub]

You have legitimate fears and these should help you set your expectations. Although I went in "blind", I knew what I would and would not take. This helped me tremendously to realize that I'd made a horrible mistake. I didn't act on that realization immediately because I was worried about what others would think. I was also worried that perhaps I would be jumping out as carelessly as I'd jumped in. But in the end, my boundaries helped me determine in less than 3 years of M what it was a sinking ship.

 

Now I hate marriage. At this point, I just want to get the D done and hope to never ever again legally tie myself to another human being. Do I blame myself for a bad M? No I don't. I made the decision with the knowledge that I had at the time. But I think carhill is spot on with PMC. Anything that will give you a better sense of the person you want to marry is a good thing.

 

Thank you FN for that very honest reply. I totally get what you're saying.

 

I'm so decided on this now PMC will definitely be a condition if I were to ever get married.

 

I just worry too much and over think everything and everything in terms of LTRs and marriage scare me.

 

But I guess all I can do is just go in with as many facts as I can and a more optimistic attitude - I guess...ok, ok, that one I do need to work on still

[xxoo]

That's true, I suppose. Thanks xxoo

 

Actually, I have a terrible memory so I associate certain impressions with certain posters to help me remember, but you are actually a poster I associate a happy M with - it seems like you guys communicate well and are always goin at it

 

Aw, I'm glad!

 

He's right for me NOW - forever is long bloody time!!

that's the thing I can't wrap my head around, because people change, circumstances change, I dunno, its just that thought of being right for someone for "forever" - how does anybody ever really know?

 

No one knows forever. But with shared history, we have more than now on which to form a judgment. If he's been right for you over time, and over different circumstances, it is easier to develop faith and trust in that person.

 

What made me feel certain that "I want to spend my life with him" was going through good times and bad times together. I don't mean bad times in the relationship--but hard times in life that you see each other though. In some ways, the hard times are more telling than the good (anyone can be fun in good times, right?).

 

Our relationship was "tested" by life events while we were still dating. How each of us handled those tough times confirmed "this is someone I want to share my life with".

 

Add that to all the things that brought us together in the first place--electric attraction, shared interests, laughter, etc--and it was easy to say "let's get married!" (which is basically how we did it....no traditional proposal )

[TigerCub]

My advice, since you are ambivalent as well as since you like to analyze things and ruminate over things before making important decisions would be to look at marriage practically, even writing things down in a journal, investigating, in your culture where you live, the real positives and negatives about the marital contract, as well as, perhaps with the benefit of PMC, the emotional reasons for or against getting married for yourself. Do this as a team. A healthy partner will standing right next to you, surely with a mind and heart of his own, but standing with you as you both examine this together and reach a decision together.

All that stuff in bold completely sounds like something I would do for any other thing I need to "figure" out - but isn't writing a pros and cons list about getting married totally taking the romance out of all of it.

 

Like, shouldn't people just know?

And that's why I wonder - well I don't know, I would need a list, doesn't that alone mean that I'm not fully into it? Doesn't that mean that I don't have the overpowering love to just dive in?

I don't know anything, its all so confusing.

 

 

Retrospectively, my error was not recognizing the lack of proactive interaction and/or support from/with my exW during this process. She 'let' it happen. This is one area where I can see the perspective of the younger men here who say to encourage the woman to drive the relationship milestones. This proactive and expressed desire indicates her willingness to stand with the man and not merely 'let' him be with her. Both parties should be proactive but in a balanced way. In my courtship and marriage, I believe it was unbalanced. That's not my exW's 'fault', but both of our responsibilities. Perhaps I'm too 'forward' about clear direction and commitment in relationships and, with her, she didn't feel a strong enough voice to stand next to me and 'let' it happen and, deep down, had her doubts. Some of that came out in MC though it wasn't definitive. It was enough for me to re-examine my 'style' and further reading on LS has supported that journey.

 

Your journey will be your own.

I'm sorry, but that in bold must have hurt to hear, but I guess considering everything, it would explain a lot.

 

I think I have doubts, my bf and I dated ~7 years ago and I broke up with him after < 2 years.

We found each other again and we've been together for a year now.

I just worry because we didn't last 2 years before, and although we both grew up and changed (I mostly changed), but that's why, I just don't want to rush into anything, I want us to be happy for 2+, or 3+ years then maybe commit to moving in, or getting married.

I just have a lot of fears and I do love him, and we're happy now, but I know that we failed before, so I think that's why I don't want to jump into anything yet.

[carhill]

Love/romance/limerence is a feeling; marriage is a decision.

[TigerCub]

No one knows forever. But with shared history, we have more than now on which to form a judgment. If he's been right for you over time, and over different circumstances, it is easier to develop faith and trust in that person.

 

What made me feel certain that "I want to spend my life with him" was going through good times and bad times together. I don't mean bad times in the relationship--but hard times in life that you see each other though. In some ways, the hard times are more telling than the good (anyone can be fun in good times, right?).

 

I see what you're saying.

I think he's definitely been there for me during really hard times, and although he's usually awesome, those times are when he really shines!! that's true, and although he hasn't really needed me like I needed him at the time, I know I'd be there for him. I totally see what you're saying XXOO...you're very wise

 

Our relationship was "tested" by life events while we were still dating. How each of us handled those tough times confirmed "this is someone I want to share my life with".

 

Add that to all the things that brought us together in the first place--electric attraction, shared interests, laughter, etc--and it was easy to say "let's get married!" (which is basically how we did it....no traditional proposal )

 

Somehow I'm not surprised, and I love it!!

Thank you for all you've said. Your post is very encouraging

[TigerCub]

I'm an analytical person and I tend to ruminate. Is he Mr. Right or Mr. Right Now? Is he a keeper or a loser? If I marry him will I meet someone else who seems like an even better match for me? Decisions, decisions. If only relationships weren't so confusing. If only we had a crystal ball we could look into.

hehe tell me bout it!

 

Is there anything you can do that would make you feel safe in a marriage? A prenup? Premarital counseling as Carhill mentioned. Something else?

One way I minimized the risk for me was by getting an advanced degree in a lucrative field. I knew with my own career I wouldn't be completely financially dependent on my spouse. If it ever came to it, I could walk away from this marriage now and be ok financially. Perhaps that doesn't sound very romantic but I think it's ok to think practically about marriage.

I think when the time comes, I'd definitely want to do premarital counseling. As far as having a good degree and being self reliant - I got that one.

Funny enough, it was my dad that actually told me "get a good degree and rely on yourself, that way if you marry an *******, you wont be trapped"

best advice I ever got!! It really is

 

Realizing that he was the right person for me was a combination of intuition and experience with previous partners. Marriage is hard work. There are times when you wonder why you ever married the other person. Both people need to be committed to the commitment. Monogamy is a choice that you make every day. A good marriage requires two people who are willing to decide again and again to stay and do the work to keep the marriage going. So pick someone with good boundaries, someone whom you trust will do that hard work for you and the marriage, someone who will not stray when the bad times hit.

He really is all those things. I like that we're not just lovers, we're friends as well.

 

I just worry about things like similar interest. We do have some, and I know that its totally good to have separate interests, but stuff like vacation preferences and activities we love to do - we're not completely on the same page on those.

 

And although right now, we totally compromise and try to do a bit of both sides, I wonder, down the road would we still do that, or would the starry eyed love fade and we wouldn't be as willing to accommodate the other? I hope not - but then again, I don't know...

 

stuff like that...

I just read so much here and it feels like there are so many pot holes and pit falls to avoid, and it seems like its too many to watch out for.

[sunshinegirl]

He's right for me NOW - forever is long bloody time!! that's the thing I can't wrap my head around, because people change, circumstances change, I dunno, its just that thought of being right for someone for "forever" - how does anybody ever really know?

 

So this stood out to me. Yep, I agree that circumstances will surely change. Who knows what life will throw at you. Fair enough.

 

The idea that "people change", though? What is the specific concern here? In my experience, peoples' basic personalities and core values are remarkably stable over time. Have you not seen or read the myriad threads on this forum alone of "He's great, but why won't he change this one thing?" or "The sex was bad from the beginning, but I thought she would change after we got married"? Those are all, to me, evidence of that stability -- i.e. in most ways, people don't change.

 

If you're talking more about peoples' feelings changing, or of concerns that your SO will flip out at some unexpected curve ball life throws their way, then I would say: look to their history to give you clues about how they might handle that. Of course no one has a crystal ball, but past behavior is a decent gauge of likely future behavior.

 

Maybe you're right, maybe not. In the R, I'm the one who doesn't want to move fast, move in together, talkk about marriage seriously, and he's the one that's bringing it up.

 

Maybe he's doing it because it really is on his mind and he's like it

 

or... maybe he is doing it because he knows I shy away from it, and so its safe to just talk and joke about it.

 

who knows...

 

Are you actually unsure why he's bringing up marriage? If you can't talk openly and honestly about whether/why marriage is even on the table...well... I would gently suggest that you may not be marriage-ready.

Edited November 8, 2011 by sunshinegirl

[KathyM]

These are questions to anyone that's ever gotten married.

 

How did you believe that this was the right thing to do?

Did you not have any doubts?

 

How do people get married, when marriage doesn't guarantee anything.

 

I look at the concept of marriage and it scares me. I just see the downfalls:

- divorce

- cheating

- screwed up finances

- possible child custody issues

 

I really want to look at things in a more pleasant way, but I'm such a pessimist when it comes to marriage and it makes me sad.

 

My boyfriend has been talking a lot about us moving in together, he's talking about the future, and marriage in a few years, and it makes me sad that I can't look at it in the idealistic way that some other people do.

 

Its not an issue of loving my boyfriend, because I do love him, and I know that I would have those same fears regardless of who I was with.

 

So...how did you guys do it?

 

Does having doubts about "forever" mean that you doubt the person you're committing to? Or is that normal?

 

When I think of marriage, I do think of forever, but that's not the case usually, and I honestly don't believe that "forever" happens, I want to believe, but all evidence is to the contrary.

 

so how do you know if you're with the right person and can promise forever?

 

My bf knows of my concerns and he does think that I'm way too pessimistic - he also thinks that reading on LS is part of the reason

 

but in all honesty, its not just LS, so many people I know have troubled marriages and are trapped...and being trapped is my biggest fear.

 

I need to learn to be more optimistic, I just don't know how to get past these fears.

 

Thanks

Make sure the person you are considering marrying has an attitude that marriage is forever, and not just until someone has a change of heart. Make sure it's someone that has a positive opinion of marriage in general, and does not fear and doubt it. Make sure they value fidelity and you are both on the same page when it comes to having children and how to raise and discipline children. For all first marriages that end in divorce, there is one that stays intact for life. Those odds are not too bad for first marriages. If you go into a marriage with the attitude that it will work, and you will do what it takes to keep it healthy, and your SO shares that attitude, I think your chances are pretty good.

[TigerCub]

So this stood out to me. Yep, I agree that circumstances will surely change. Who knows what life will throw at you. Fair enough.

 

The idea that "people change", though? What is the specific concern here? In my experience, peoples' basic personalities and core values are remarkably stable over time. Have you not seen or read the myriad threads on this forum alone of "He's great, but why won't he change this one thing?" or "The sex was bad from the beginning, but I thought she would change after we got married"? Those are all, to me, evidence of that stability -- i.e. in most ways, people don't change.

 

If you're talking more about peoples' feelings changing, or of concerns that your SO will flip out at some unexpected curve ball life throws their way, then I would say: look to their history to give you clues about how they might handle that. Of course no one has a crystal ball, but past behavior is a decent gauge of likely future behavior.

 

There are a few things:

- I do think that feelings change, or at least COULD change.

 

BUt when I say people change, it actually makes me sad to admit, but its because of his past history.

- His dad was abusive, he was abusive to the mom and the kids.

- when I asked my bf about how did your mom even end up with him? He tells me that in the beginning he was great and stuff, and then things changed.

 

I'm not saying that my boyfriend would turn and be like his father. My boyfriend hates his father because of how he was. My boyfriend, during a very honest and frank conversation told me that the 3 things he would never want to happen is a. call me names or be degrading,b. be abusive, c. or cheat on me.

 

I know that my bf is a great guy and I"m lucky to have him, and really if I add up Round 1 and now Roun2, I've known him and been with him for almost 3 years, so I see him for who he is and he's never indicated that he would be anything like his dad...

 

but that story and that experience with his mom shows that people can change.

I mean yeah, I don't know how long they were together before marriage, I don't know the nitty gritty, but still its kind of an unsettling thought that people can just change, or people show different sides of them..

 

I dunno, I'm rambling, I know in my heart the my bf is a great guy and he treats me like a queen, and i know he wont end up like his dad, and that if he did, I'd leave, I wouldn't just stay like his mom did, but still I dunno, I know its unfair to even have those thoughts, but I just have a fear or people "changing"...but in all fairness, anyone can say that the dad didn't really "change" he was always the way he was, he was just hiding it - which is what I believe.

 

sorry for rambling.

 

 

Are you actually unsure why he's bringing up marriage? If you can't talk openly and honestly about whether/why marriage is even on the table...well... I would gently suggest that you may not be marriage-ready.

 

That was more of a semi-sarcastic remark to that person, because if I had left at "he's the one that brings it up and I'm the one that wants to take it slow"

they would have replied with "maybe he does that because he knows you want to take it slow and nothing will come of it"

 

so yeah, more of a sarcastic response.

 

I know he wants us to move forward in the R. I know we love each other, I know that he's like us to move in together by May/June, and that he thinks that marriage will come a year or 2 after (lets see how we live together and get along and stuff first).

 

Thanks for your reply SunshineGirl

[TigerCub]

Make sure the person you are considering marrying has an attitude that marriage is forever, and not just until someone has a change of heart. Make sure it's someone that has a positive opinion of marriage in general, and does not fear and doubt it.

It's sad that I'm the one that has those in bold.

Like if someone was going to answer my bf if he was asking "should I propose to her" - the the answer would be "NO!!!!"

because I do have those fears and doubts and not a very happy opinion about marriage.

 

Make sure they value fidelity and you are both on the same page when it comes to having children and how to raise and discipline children. For all first marriages that end in divorce, there is one that stays intact for life. Those odds are not too bad for first marriages. If you go into a marriage with the attitude that it will work, and you will do what it takes to keep it healthy, and your SO shares that attitude, I think your chances are pretty good.

 

The rest is more hopeful because I do believe we are definitely on the same page about that stuff, we've discussed it and know where the other stands and pretty much agree on it - that's hopeful!!

yaaay

 

Thanks Kathy