GorillaTheater Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 In that case: Real women clean the house in high heels. Oh boy, zengirl happened upon one of my buttons. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 That right there is the attitude we're trying to critique. "Fun and easy to get along with"... where is the room for complex human emotions? For differing opinions? In this viewpoint, that a "real woman is fun to be around and easy to get along with," it reduces a woman to not a person (a person is allowed a whole range of emotions, and doesn't need to be 'fun' and 'easy' all the time) but an emotionless, sex-giving robot. Nobody is perfect but enjoyable to be around and easy to get along the majority of the time is not too much to ask for. It sure beats better than being a drag and impossible to get along with most of the time. Link to post Share on other sites
Metis Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 This it in a nutshell. As long as a woman is fun to be around and easy to get along with most men are more than happy.That right there is the attitude we're trying to critique. "Fun and easy to get along with"... where is the room for complex human emotions? For differing opinions? In this viewpoint, that a "real woman is fun to be around and easy to get along with," it reduces a woman to not a person (a person is allowed a whole range of emotions, and doesn't need to be 'fun' and 'easy' all the time) but an emotionless, sex-giving robot. That goes back to the presumption held by some -- like Woggle here -- that a relationship is primarily about the man, his wants, needs, problems and desires; but not about the couple. Certainly, the woman's wants, needs, problems and desires have no place in it. Link to post Share on other sites
aj22one Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 That right there is the attitude we're trying to critique. "Fun and easy to get along with"... where is the room for complex human emotions? For differing opinions? In this viewpoint, that a "real woman is fun to be around and easy to get along with," it reduces a woman to not a person (a person is allowed a whole range of emotions, and doesn't need to be 'fun' and 'easy' all the time) but an emotionless, sex-giving robot. What?! You got that out of "fun and easy to get along with"? Some people go really deep with their analysis of simple and innocuous things. I mean come on, I want my friends to be "fun and easy to get along with" but that doesn't mean I want them to be emotionless and 100% agreeing with me all the time. Nothing wrong with wanting a girlfriend or wife who is the same way. Link to post Share on other sites
aj22one Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Nobody is perfect but enjoyable to be around and easy to get along the majority of the time is not too much to ask for. It sure beats better than being a drag and impossible to get along with most of the time. Exactly. And most people expect the same of their friends. Do people really count "down and depressed all the time, a complete bore" as one of their positive traits? Link to post Share on other sites
verhrzn Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Nobody is perfect but enjoyable to be around and easy to get along the majority of the time is not too much to ask for. It sure beats better than being a drag and impossible to get along with most of the time. that's a huge extreme... Either 'easy and fun the majority of the time' or 'Being a drag and impossible to get along with.' Humans are not such bipolar creatures. People-including women-have all variations of emotions, and not many of them fit into the mold of 'easy and fun.' If a woman told you that you were only a 'real man' if you were never anything but happy, never voiced any opinion that was different from hers (so was 'easy to get along with'), and rarely complained, wouldn't you feel confined and denied? Link to post Share on other sites
Author grkBoy Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 Wasn't sure; hence the wink. In that case: Real women clean the house in high heels. Funny, but I was more looking for those things men honestly would love to define as "real women". Here's a few I'd say... Real women want men who act like mature men. Not handsome males who act like horny boys, or wimpy boys who can't act like mature men. Real women don't play games and aren't afraid to be honest. They would tell a guy they're not into him and let him turn into a baby as opposed to looking for a lie to avoid conflict. Real women take care of themselves both physically, mentally, and intellectually. They like to be beautiful inside and out, smart, educated, traveled, and independent. Real women toss old baggage into the trash can. They don't carry it, shelf it, or hide it in the closet. Real women value what a man brings to her life, and never takes a man for granted. Real women appreciate a man who can show his emotion to her, rather than belittle him and run away from such a man...but they don't like men who can't control their emotions and cannot stay balanced mentally. Real women don't live in the past. They don't sit there thinking the man should take care of everything and don't expect a man to take care of her. She's looking for a partner in life, not a meal ticket or a house slave to boss around. Real women appreciate the men who love them, respect them, and see past the T&A. They won't tolerate a boy who plays mind games to try to control her. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Exactly. And most people expect the same of their friends. Do people really count "down and depressed all the time, a complete bore" as one of their positive traits? Exactly. I don't want friends who are impossible to get along either. Who the hell wants to live with somebody like that? Link to post Share on other sites
aj22one Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 that's a huge extreme... Either 'easy and fun the majority of the time' or 'Being a drag and impossible to get along with.' Humans are not such bipolar creatures. People-including women-have all variations of emotions, and not many of them fit into the mold of 'easy and fun.' If a woman told you that you were only a 'real man' if you were never anything but happy, never voiced any opinion that was different from hers (so was 'easy to get along with'), and rarely complained, wouldn't you feel confined and denied? You really have a victim or martyr complex don't you? "Fun" and "easy to get along with" are such wide ranging and vague terms that can mean different things for different people. But, by and large people seek out to socialize with and date people who like to have fun (whatever "fun" is for them) and are easy to get along with. I don't anyone who doesn't. This doesn't mean expectations of always being that way, but that in general that's what they are. There's nothing oppressive about that. You're digging real deep to see it that way though. Link to post Share on other sites
oaks Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Real women ONLY experience and express their sexuality within a committed and formal relationship with a man. If at all. Ooo. Good one. My contribution (although note that I can't decide whether this thread is serious or not) as follows: A real woman wakes me up at 2am because she's horny. And again a few hours later. Link to post Share on other sites
Paroxysm Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Everyone's real..... I think..... Link to post Share on other sites
verhrzn Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 You really have a victim or martyr complex don't you? "Fun" and "easy to get along with" are such wide ranging and vague terms that can mean different things for different people. But, by and large people seek out to socialize with and date people who like to have fun (whatever "fun" is for them) and are easy to get along with. I don't anyone who doesn't. This doesn't mean expectations of always being that way, but that in general that's what they are. There's nothing oppressive about that. You're digging real deep to see it that way though. Except we've discussed in this thread how the stereotypical woman is someone who is not allowed to express her opinion too strongly, who doesn't challenge her man, who sets her own needs aside to 'make things easy' for him. So is it REALLY such a huge jumping off point to point out that Woggle is just echoing the same restrictive gender norms that the other thread was complaining about effected men? or do you really think men who say they want a woman who is 'easy to get along with' mean a woman who challenges their opinions, expresses her opinion frequently, and is concerned with her own needs and desires? Link to post Share on other sites
aj22one Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Except we've discussed in this thread how the stereotypical woman is someone who is not allowed to express her opinion too strongly, who doesn't challenge her man, who sets her own needs aside to 'make things easy' for him. So is it REALLY such a huge jumping off point to point out that Woggle is just echoing the same restrictive gender norms that the other thread was complaining about effected men? or do you really think men who say they want a woman who is 'easy to get along with' mean a woman who challenges their opinions, expresses her opinion frequently, and is concerned with her own needs and desires? I don't think there's anything wrong with Woggle, or anyone else expecting that, as long as they themselves are willing to do the same. It should be something that both parties in a relationship do. I would sacrifice my own happiness for my gf, and I would hope she would do the same. Of course this is certianly within reason, and it shouldn't be abused by either person. And I think easy to get along with means they're basically on the same page, care about each other, etc. It could mean challenging his opinions (if it's a guy who likes debating) or it could simply mean if he sits and watches her favorite show she'll return the favor by watching the football game with him. Link to post Share on other sites
Metis Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) aj22one and verhrzn, here is what I think: No one wants to live with someone who makes their life hell. No one wants to spend every day arguing or locked in some never-ending power struggle. However, it's one of those "duh" things that are sort of understood. To say that you want someone you can actually live with without jumping off a bridge is sort of like saying you want your ideal partner to be of the opposite sex (if you are hetero) or someone that you are actually attracted to. However, when a man describes "fun and easy to get along with" as a special requirement, that does, unfortunately, set off alarm bells precisely for the reasons that verhrzn listed: that women are expected (by some) solely to accommodate and amuse, and never do or say anything that may make a man feel uncomfortable, inadequate, less than a Lord of the Universe, etc., and it covers some of the things I mentioned in my own list. Given that it comes from Woggle, who is (I think most of us can agree), one of LS' resident misogynists, I think people here may be forgiven for a bit of knee-jerk reaction. Edited November 7, 2011 by Metis Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 I want ask the women a question. Would you want to live with a man who had a constant attitude and felt a constant need to disrespect you just to show how independent he is? Would you want a man who started fights for no reason and thought it was beneath him to treat you well? I seriously doubt you would so why is a man wrong for not wanting the same in a woman? Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 or do you really think men who say they want a woman who is 'easy to get along with' mean a woman who challenges their opinions, expresses her opinion frequently, and is concerned with her own needs and desires? I think "easy to get along with" generally means somebody you feel comfortable around. Especially if you're going to be living with them. That doesn't mean no disagreements and no opinions. It would be urealistic for anybody to think they could have that kind of environment all the time. However, there's got to be some consideration. Some ability to read the other person and sense "okay, they look especially tired and stressed today. Maybe this isn't the right time for me to express my views on the Occupy Wall Street situation or recent reports of unrest in the Congo. It shouldn't be about hiding who you are, so much as being yourself but also being prepared to compromise in certain aspects of your behaviour out of consideration for the other person. Being beyond that very child-like narcissistic state which believes "everything revolves around me...I should not have to compromise on anything." I think to be capable of compromising maturely, you have to be sufficiently assertive and opinionated to ensure it really is a case of both parties compromising for the sake of a workable and harmonious relationship....rather than one person being the ever-compromising doormat while the other floats above on a self made raft of entitlement and high expectations. Link to post Share on other sites
aj22one Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 However, when a man describes "fun and easy to get along with" as a special requirement, that does, unfortunately, set off alarm bells precisely for the reasons that verhrzn listed: that women are expected (by some) solely to accommodate and amuse, and never do or say anything that may make a man feel uncomfortable, inadequate, less than a Lord of the Universe, etc., and it covers some of the things I mentioned in my own list. Given that it comes from Woggle, who is (I think most of us can agree), one of LS' resident misogynists, I think people here may be forgiven for a bit of knee-jerk reaction. Well then I think you live in a world that I don't live in fortunately. Maybe it's my age and locale, but I've never encountered a man who wished for his girlfriend to be his personal court jester, dancing monkey, or sex machine. Again, that's just me. In any case, Woggle has some issues to be sure. But keep in mind he's had to deal with some real headcase women that kind of jaded him (his ex-wife and his mother). So, just understand he's not just a hateful meanie, he actually has some reasons to be a little bitter. Link to post Share on other sites
Metis Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 I want ask the women a question. Would you want to live with a man who had a constant attitude and felt a constant need to disrespect you just to show how independent he is? Would you want a man who started fights for no reason and thought it was beneath him to treat you well? I seriously doubt you would so why is a man wrong for not wanting the same in a woman? As I stated, I would not want to live in a constant state of conflict. However, I also would not consider it "disrespect" just because my man contradicted me, nor would it insult me to know that, while I am an important part of his life, perhaps the most important, he has other things, too, and isn't utterly dependent on me for his daily survival and recreation. I would not consider it mistreatment just because a man, for whatever reason, couldn't amuse me on such-and-such particular day. If a man started a conflict with me, I would not automatically dismiss it as having no good reason. Well then I think you live in a world that I don't live in fortunately. Maybe it's my age and locale, but I've never encountered a man who wished for his girlfriend to be his personal court jester, dancing monkey, or sex machine. Again, that's just me. Housekeeper, you forgot housekeeper. In any event, I agree -- it could be an age thing, or a regional thing, or a combination of the two. Nevertheless, I've encountered that other set of attitudes in my life quite a bit. Not all men do it, not even the majority, but the few who do are quite visible. In any case, Woggle has some issues to be sure. But keep in mind he's had to deal with some real headcase women that kind of jaded him (his ex-wife and his mother). So, just understand he's not just a hateful meanie, he actually has some reasons to be a little bitter. He's not the only one who's experienced mistreatment. I've had to deal with some real headcase men who exhibited the very attitudes that you say you've never seen; and I was roundly abused growing up, by both parents but especially my father who once stated that he would, by God, beat me out of me. I know for a fact, I'm not the only woman who's had to deal with that kind of stuff, nor is my case the worst out there. I don't see what happened to me as a justification to hate men, however, and I don't, in fact, hate men. Whatever our experiences, we are human beings endowed with a mind and free will. Ultimately, we all choose what we become. Some choose to become hateful meanies. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Real women choose a man because she genuinely wants him in her life (not because she needs him), and then treats him accordingly. Real men do the same. Link to post Share on other sites
NXS Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 However, when a man describes "fun and easy to get along with" as a special requirement, that does, unfortunately, set off alarm bells precisely for the reasons that verhrzn listed: that women are expected (by some) solely to accommodate and amuse, and never do or say anything that may make a man feel uncomfortable, inadequate, less than a Lord of the Universe, etc., and it covers some of the things I mentioned in my own list. Given that it comes from Woggle, who is (I think most of us can agree), one of LS' resident misogynists, I think people here may be forgiven for a bit of knee-jerk reaction. Wow, how you got all of that out of his post is beyond me. For me being "fun and easy to get along with" is just that, not taking every little thing so serious, not blaming everything on the nearest man but taking responsibility for your own feelings. That's right, taking responsibility for your own feelings. Now you may think that expressing every whim and feeling is somehow emotional growth but that's not the case at all. Yes it may feel restrictive but you know what?....it's called growing up. Life is hard enough without having to endure a constant battle in the home/relationship as well, and who wants to live with someone who like that? Link to post Share on other sites
findingnemo Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Real women are real. They don't pretend, act, misrepresent or in any manner portray themselves as someone or something they are not. They don't act manly nor do they act like bimbos. They express their feelings politely and if driven to anger may explode. Real women are not hysterical, flighty, manipulating or scheming. Real women are the majority of women men meet everyday but choose to ignore because they are not their version of a "real" woman. Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 This it in a nutshell. As long as a woman is fun to be around and easy to get along with most men are more than happy. I don't have the problem with this that some of my sisterwomen seem to have. I am reading it more as a state of the relationship than as qualities of a woman, though. I mean, if any "fun, easy to get along with" woman were interchangeable with another to you, I'd probably jump on you. But I highly value peace and harmony in my home life, so I too want to be with a man who is fun and easy for ME to get along with. I used to be all angsty and attracted to the same. Now I am so over that stuff. And I also have lost patience for people who think that their moods justify any amount of misery that they feel moved to inflict upon others. I'm sure some of my ex boyfriends would be surprised to read this … because I also used to be quite a wretch if I were having a rough time. Which was the norm. I am not hiding my true nature, or problems, or opinions in order to make smooth sailing and a happy hubby. I just do my part towards a positive environment at home, for the most part, and expect (and receive) the same. Part of that entails taking care of my own self emotionally, etc., so I can offer fun and ease. Link to post Share on other sites
Metis Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 For me being "fun and easy to get along with" is just that, not taking every little thing so serious, not blaming everything on the nearest man but taking responsibility for your own feelings. "Taking responsibility for your own feelings"? Sounds weird to me. If you have certain feelings, you just have them, end of story. How you act on them is another matter. For example, if you feel hurt by a member of the opposite sex, being responsible person would entail not projecting whatever sick feelings you have onto other members of that sex. That's right, taking responsibility for your own feelings. Now you may think that expressing every whim and feeling is somehow emotional growth but that's not the case at all. Yes it may feel restrictive but you know what?....it's called growing up. If you believe I think that, then you have no idea what I think. What I think, is that women's feelings have as much validity as men's. So if your girlfriend being "easy to get along with" would entail her listening and commiserating with you after you've had a bad day at work, it would only be fair for you to return the favor. Link to post Share on other sites
Eve Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Real women are real. They don't pretend, act, misrepresent or in any manner portray themselves as someone or something they are not. They don't act manly nor do they act like bimbos. They express their feelings politely and if driven to anger may explode. Real women are not hysterical, flighty, manipulating or scheming. Real women are the majority of women men meet everyday but choose to ignore because they are not their version of a "real" woman. I like this much muchly. 'Real' being indicative of a person advancing on the positive aspects of their nature. Like, who has time for all that other nonsense anyway? Not sure about the men missing these sorts of women part to your post as there are no gender wars etc where I live. Things are not based on wealth either or any of the weird stuff that goes off here. So I cannot comment on that, thankfully. My main thought to add- 'real' women admit challenges and are not satisfied with comparisons. Take care, Eve x Link to post Share on other sites
ThsAmericanLife Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 I'm eating my homemade corn/potato/cheese chowder... to be followed by fresh apple pie I made from scratch today using local apples. Which I made after walking to the post office to file the tax amendments for my two year old consulting company. Obviously, I eat like a construction worker (see above). I also have the body of a 20 yr old cheerleader (or so my fiancee said)... I believe it was alphamale that said that real women 'swallow' and enjoy anal sex Check!! but I haven't shaved my legs in two days (-1) am not wearing makeup (-1) .. and my twat is trimmed, not waxed (-1) ...Guess it is back to the drawing board. DAMN! (-1 for profanity) Link to post Share on other sites
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