An argument for race and status for dating - white women will NEVER date asian men

[futuregopher]

My friend who is a black 27 male grad student has this theory about dating, race, and economic status. The following thoughts are his opinions and not mine. I wanted to get the LS family's opinion on this.

 

He says that race and economic status are the two most important factors when females consider whether or not to date a man. White men have it the best as they are at the top of the social ladder. They can date other white girls, asian girls, etc. A white women will almost NEVER go out with an asian guy because that is "trading down" in terms of racial status. The only way that a white woman will even consider an asian man is if he has VERY HIGH social status (hedge fund manager, etc). Asian men have it the worst in the dating game as they are simply seen as not masculine enough. The perception is that they're nerdy and there's some truth that "perception is reality". The only race asian men can attract is asian women but even then the asian men have to compete with white men.

 

I tell him that it's not true because sometimes asian men having no "game" is more true than not and I bring up The Game by Neill Strauss where nerdy men actually success. His counter argument is that The Game does not take into consideration race one bit. Neill Strauss's young pickup artist students are almost all white with VERY FEW exceptions. My friend says that the success they were having in picking up women was due to 1/3 race/ethnicity as they were mostly all white and 2/3 actually "game". This ties into his social race ladder again where these white men simply needed to discover that they could have any race of women with a little bit of "game".

 

He also says that black women are only attracted to gangster and thug-like black men. They won't ever consider an educated black male. The only black women that will consider an educated black male is if she is also educated and sophisticated. But once again, the social race ladder comes into play and she wants to land a white man to get up to the highest rung.

 

Economic status and upbringing are also factors in the dating game. He based this theory on where we go to school. Our school is a public school in Illinois that has a very large greek system (fraternity and sorority) presence. Almost all of the people in the greek system come from the suburbs of Chicago where they tend to be upper-middle class,upper class, and white. They are stuck in their own little greek system world and if you're not part of the suburban kids crowd, they won't even pay attention to you. The have no interest in dating you if you're outside the greek system because you don't have the status of a Pike or ATO. It's mostly the girls that don't pay attention to non-greek system guys. Guys could care less; obviously we're looks driven . The girls which are non-greek which are actually from the city of Chicago are actually more open minded in terms of dating and association. They're not as sheltered and close minded as the kids from the suburbs.

 

He also warns me that it will get worse when I move to NYC which scares me because he might actually be right. The girls there, in his opinion, will execute his theory to the maximum. There will be increased social race ladder and economic status presence. It will only be worse after I leave here and enter the real world of NYC.

 

I am a 22 year old asian male that has had 2 two year relationships both with asian girls. It's not that I am not into white girls; it just so happened that I dated asian girls. I've only dated those two girls. It's been three months since she dumped me which had no wrongdoing on each end. Sometimes we do field testing of his theory in bars and public places but there hasn't been a large enough sample size to make a conclusion. I do consider myself a dating noob because I haven't dated that much and I don't really come off as a masculine asian man but I'm trying to get rid of that stereotype. He says that I would have a lot more success in dating and attracting girls if I were in another location (except NYC;ironic huh?) where people aren't so influenced by what suburb you're from and what fraternity you're in.

 

Is he just an angry black man or is there a bit of truth in his theories? Have you guys experienced this yourself? So, what does the LS family think?!?!

[Shaun-Dro]

My friend who is a black 27 male grad student has this theory about dating, race, and economic status. The following thoughts are his opinions and not mine. I wanted to get the LS family's opinion on this.

 

He says that race and economic status are the two most important factors when females consider whether or not to date a man. White men have it the best as they are at the top of the social ladder. They can date other white girls, asian girls, etc. A white women will almost NEVER go out with an asian guy because that is "trading down" in terms of racial status. The only way that a white woman will even consider an asian man is if he has VERY HIGH social status (hedge fund manager, etc). Asian men have it the worst in the dating game as they are simply seen as not masculine enough. The perception is that they're nerdy and there's some truth that "perception is reality". The only race asian men can attract is asian women but even then the asian men have to compete with white men.

 

I tell him that it's not true because sometimes asian men having no "game" is more true than not and I bring up The Game by Neill Strauss where nerdy men actually success. His counter argument is that The Game does not take into consideration race one bit. Neill Strauss's young pickup artist students are almost all white with VERY FEW exceptions. My friend says that the success they were having in picking up women was due to 1/3 race/ethnicity as they were mostly all white and 2/3 actually "game". This ties into his social race ladder again where these white men simply needed to discover that they could have any race of women with a little bit of "game".

 

He also says that black women are only attracted to gangster and thug-like black men. They won't ever consider an educated black male. The only black women that will consider an educated black male is if she is also educated and sophisticated. But once again, the social race ladder comes into play and she wants to land a white man to get up to the highest rung.

 

Economic status and upbringing are also factors in the dating game. He based this theory on where we go to school. Our school is a public school in Illinois that has a very large greek system (fraternity and sorority) presence. Almost all of the people in the greek system come from the suburbs of Chicago where they tend to be upper-middle class,upper class, and white. They are stuck in their own little greek system world and if you're not part of the suburban kids crowd, they won't even pay attention to you. The have no interest in dating you if you're outside the greek system because you don't have the status of a Pike or ATO. It's mostly the girls that don't pay attention to non-greek system guys. Guys could care less; obviously we're looks driven . The girls which are non-greek which are actually from the city of Chicago are actually more open minded in terms of dating and association. They're not as sheltered and close minded as the kids from the suburbs.

 

He also warns me that it will get worse when I move to NYC which scares me because he might actually be right. The girls there, in his opinion, will execute his theory to the maximum. There will be increased social race ladder and economic status presence. It will only be worse after I leave here and enter the real world of NYC.

 

I am a 22 year old asian male that has had 2 two year relationships both with asian girls. It's not that I am not into white girls; it just so happened that I dated asian girls. I've only dated those two girls. It's been three months since she dumped me which had no wrongdoing on each end. Sometimes we do field testing of his theory in bars and public places but there hasn't been a large enough sample size to make a conclusion. I do consider myself a dating noob because I haven't dated that much and I don't really come off as a masculine asian man but I'm trying to get rid of that stereotype. He says that I would have a lot more success in dating and attracting girls if I were in another location (except NYC;ironic huh?) where people aren't so influenced by what suburb you're from and what fraternity you're in.

 

Is he just an angry black man or is there a bit of truth in his theories? Have you guys experienced this yourself? So, what does the LS family think?!?!

 

Come to NYC and your chances of dating white women will increase. It will be gradual but you'll notice the difference, especially if you hit up parts of NY like the Village and middle-class Queens neighborhoods.

[USMCHokie]

I think I'll just sit back and observe this one...

[MaxNoob]

It's striking how racially segregated US cities are.

 

If white people are in higher demand by all races, wouldn't there be more diversity in American neighborhoods?

[unknownsources]

What about those ripped, "he's in good shape and asian so he must do karate" kind of asian guys? I know of few of those guys and they get lots of interest from everyone (including some gay dudes...)

[Mrlonelyone]

If we limit the idea of "dating" to serious relationships your friend is mostly right.

 

Choosing a long term relationship takes account of factors beyond attractiveness and personality. Social status, and social norms play a big role. i.e. There is a taboo about older women dating younger men. There is still an element of social censure for interracial dating. Certain subcultres, Asian (South or East) tend to want to keep to their own.

 

These same social pressures can rip an otherwise good relationship apart unless the people in it have real intestinal fortitude and can shrug off the disapproving looks.

 

____________

 

On the other hand at the age of 22 you should not be worrying about such matters. Nothing you do relationship wise, at that age, is ever really that serious as long as no one gets knocked up or HIV+. Dating before about 25 should be treated worth a casual grain of salt.

 

Any woman who will not casually date you because of such social pressure is one who lacks backbone. Who needs a life partner who can't take a little heat?

[Disenchantedly Yours]

He sounds like an angry black man.

 

Sometimes people do end up with others that share certain similar life experiences as themselves. Which includes culture. But there are more interacial couples now, more then ever. I don't think a majority of "white guys" think they have it best if you ask them and if you even ask more of the more normal LS men on here.

 

By the way, my best friend is white and loves asian men. As does her mother. She particularly likes Korean men. She just spent a few years overseas in China and has retured and still is only interested in dating Asian men. She said she wouldn't pass a white guy up if they really connected, but her perference is Asians. And none of the men she has dated that where Asian where high status. One of the reasons she likes Asian men over white men is that they tend to be less pushy. She had told me the other day with white guys, it's all about the sex and pushing for it very early on. When she dates Asian men, they don't expect as soon as white guys do. So that might go hand and hand with your own idea that Asian men don't have "game". They are less aggressive then white men perhaps.

 

Now in America, yes, Asian men have to compete with white men because America is predominately white. But In Korea or China, clearly Asian men are dating and getting married of all social economic standings.

 

As for black women wanting only gangster thug types, that's just plain false and a horrible stereotype to make about women in his own culture. I have a number of friends that are African American that are dating very nice African American men. They aren't all running around trying to land white guys. Infact, I don't think most of the girls I know where attracted to white guys since they had always dating African American men.

 

If anything, if you live in Illinois now and move to NYC, you are bound to encounter more interracial couples and diversity, not less. I never attended a NYC college but I never heard about social interactions at school being influenced by what suburb you come from. People might make fun of different suburbs and borrows in a light hearted manner but I never heard of someone refusing to be with friends with someone just for that. And I live in NJ. NYers ignorantly make fun of NJ sometimes and I dated a number of men from NY.

 

Just my own experiences for what it is worth.

[colliejoanie]

For a minute I thought I stepped back in time .

 

It really does astound me that conversations like this are still being held.

 

I like who I like. You like who you like.

 

It honestly has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with the person.

[joystickd]

I know for me all I have ever dated were white women and as you can see I'm black. His theory is a little off. I have been to places and seen Asian men with black women. The thing is a woman can be attracted to someone no matter what race. I wouldn't say black women liked thugs and gangsters. I spent some time when I was in college hanging with those types and some had trouble with women.

[A O]

White men have it the best as they are at the top of the social ladder.

Probably are in the white world, doubt if that holds true in the non-white worlds. Horses for courses.

 

A white women will almost NEVER go out with an asian guy because that is "trading down" in terms of racial status.

I think this is true for most races. Their are pros and cons to multi racial dating.

 

Asian men have it the worst in the dating game as they are simply seen as not masculine enough.

The world is changing and changing fast. Economic power is slowly but surely moving East. You don't get much more masculine than that.

 

 

.

[fishtaco]

Social status is key. That is never wrong. But race has less to do with it.

 

White guys do have it easier, and Asian men do have to work harder, but the difference is small. Having game makes way more impact than ethnicity, it easily overtakes the importance of race, even for Asian men.

 

Usually Asian men that complain are ones without game, so they blame it on their race. Where a white guy with no game... he sort of doesn't have that excuse.

 

I'm Asian. And from my experience, Asian and Asian mixed women are the ones that tend to not date Asian men. Non-Asian women usually don't specifically look to date Asian men, they don't go... "I want an Asian boyfriend". But if they meet one that catches their attention, they won't say no.

 

So I would put social status and game at the top of the list, and race at the bottom of the list. Race makes a difference, but there are many other factors that are more important.

 

I date almost exclusively non Asians. So I either have game coming out of my ears, or more likely, I'm just an average joe that learned a thing or two, and women actually are okay with dating Asian men.

 

So I disagree with your friend.

[zengirl]

I'm living proof that a white woman WILL date an Asian man. I'm the child of a Japanese father and a white woman. They didn't stay together, but that's only because my father cheated (mostly with a lot of other white women).

[thatone]

as for the black women/white guy thing, there seems to be a stigma of black women with white men here in the south, from both sides. you can see black women meeting white men for sex here and there if they have white guy fantasies, but relationship prospects seem to be off limits.

[USMCHokie]

From the vast amount of feedback I've received on LS in dealing with my own issues on this topic, I've been told the best way to get over this hurdle: pull your head from out of your ass and get over it.

 

This "argument" is simply a self-imposed excuse to rationalize not trying in dating or to mask another deficiency. Yes, there is probably a tangible disadvantage, but only you have the power to transcend that and forge your own destiny.

[OneFootOut]

I wish people would stop saying women/men will or won't do whatever. Every human being is different and can't be judged by the group theory.

 

I happen to be extremely attracted to an online Indonesian friend of mine. He is dirt poor, and lives in a painfully small run down home with his mother and several siblings.

 

I met him online 2 years ago, and we have became close and spend a lot of time talking and cam'ing together. The only thing keeping us apart is distance. I would date, live with, or even marry this man if we could bridge the gap somehow.

 

He is thin, and average looking, and has nothing to offer materially or finacially, but he is he most honest and sincere man I have ever met. He makes me feel like I am important and valued and adored. I love the MAN he is. That has nothing to do with race or status.

 

SO WHAT if someone is a different nationality, race, rich, poor, cute, plain, big, or small ? We are all people. None of us chose where we were born. We all have hearts and souls. We need to get back to using them, rather than chasing material things or status quo, or a better than the Jones's life.

[verhrzn]

There have been a couple of studies on this subject actually... white men have the most social value, scaling down to Asian men, and Asian women have the highest social value, with African women being on the bottom of the ladder.

 

That said, interracial marriage in the United State are still pretty rare. When dating within one's racial group, the "social value" of race disappears, so Asian men are far more successful with Asian women. The only group that this doesn't seem to hold true for is African women... But most people actually have a preference for people of the same race.

 

What I've observed is that in "wider society," Asian guys DO have less success crossing the race line that, say, Caucasian men. BUT among the "nerd society," there is a HUGE demand for Asian guys.

[monkey00]

Based off your post I'll assume you've never been to the bay area or NY. There are tons of interracial dating happening and yes including asian men with white women. If you think about it, most people prefer to date within their race. However there are exceptions and a small percentage are willing to date outside their race. I will have to say that dating is definitely a numbers game, I can assure you that if one has a goal in mind and keeps striving - it's only a matter of time until that person achieves it.

 

Also with Neil Strauss and his book. His book is used to make money, you shouldn't believe everything he says, I would only take that with a grain of salt.

[jerbear]

From the vast amount of feedback I've received on LS in dealing with my own issues on this topic, I've been told the best way to get over this hurdle: pull your head from out of your ass and get over it.

 

This "argument" is simply a self-imposed excuse to rationalize not trying in dating or to mask another deficiency. Yes, there is probably a tangible disadvantage, but only you have the power to transcend that and forge your own destiny.

The pull your head from out of your ass is the USMC part of you. Pretty much get over it and get the job done.

 

 

There have been a couple of studies on this subject actually... white men have the most social value, scaling down to Asian men, and Asian women have the highest social value, with African women being on the bottom of the ladder.

 

That said, interracial marriage in the United State are still pretty rare. When dating within one's racial group, the "social value" of race disappears, so Asian men are far more successful with Asian women. The only group that this doesn't seem to hold true for is African women... But most people actually have a preference for people of the same race.

 

What I've observed is that in "wider society," Asian guys DO have less success crossing the race line that, say, Caucasian men. BUT among the "nerd society," there is a HUGE demand for Asian guys.

 

I do have to agree to the asian guys have a race line to cross. Asian guys tend to have jobs in the "nerd society." My cousin gets white women left and right, granted he graduated from a top school and the women are equally "blessed."

 

Interracial marriage in the US has been increasing overall. The 2010 Census showed more dual identifications.

 

It goes with human migration patterns. People married by race, within their local towns/cities, religion, social class, education (because they happen to be in the same major), social economic class, and now "nerd society".

 

2 billion plus Asians means the Asians are doing something right.

[verhrzn]

I do have to agree to the asian guys have a race line to cross. Asian guys tend to have jobs in the "nerd society." My cousin gets white women left and right, granted he graduated from a top school and the women are equally "blessed."

 

Interracial marriage in the US has been increasing overall. The 2010 Census showed more dual identifications.

 

It goes with human migration patterns. People married by race, within their local towns/cities, religion, social class, education (because they happen to be in the same major), social economic class, and now "nerd society".

 

2 billion plus Asians means the Asians are doing something right.

Oh I agree completely. Interracial marriage is certainly going up... But I feel like the OP shouldn't be opining his own personal bad luck with women of other races, when statistics still favor same-race marriages.

[jobaba]

He says that race and economic status are the two most important factors when females consider whether or not to date a man. White men have it the best as they are at the top of the social ladder. They can date other white girls, asian girls, etc. A white women will almost NEVER go out with an asian guy because that is "trading down" in terms of racial status. The only way that a white woman will even consider an asian man is if he has VERY HIGH social status (hedge fund manager, etc). Asian men have it the worst in the dating game as they are simply seen as not masculine enough. The perception is that they're nerdy and there's some truth that "perception is reality". The only race asian men can attract is asian women but even then the asian men have to compete with white men.

 

He also warns me that it will get worse when I move to NYC which scares me because he might actually be right. The girls there, in his opinion, will execute his theory to the maximum. There will be increased social race ladder and economic status presence. It will only be worse after I leave here and enter the real world of NYC.

 

I am a 22 year old asian male that has had 2 two year relationships both with asian girls. It's not that I am not into white girls; it just so happened that I dated asian girls. I've only dated those two girls. It's been three months since she dumped me which had no wrongdoing on each end. Sometimes we do field testing of his theory in bars and public places but there hasn't been a large enough sample size to make a conclusion. I do consider myself a dating noob because I haven't dated that much and I don't really come off as a masculine asian man but I'm trying to get rid of that stereotype. He says that I would have a lot more success in dating and attracting girls if I were in another location (except NYC;ironic huh?) where people aren't so influenced by what suburb you're from and what fraternity you're in.

 

I'm an Asian guy, quite a bit older than you, and have lived in NYC for a lot of my life. So, this is kind of meant to 'help' you rather than argue with the masses here.

 

White girls are tough. That is the bottom line. If you are h@llbent on getting white girls and no others, you may be in for a rough time.

 

In my experience, there's two types of white girls who will date Asian men:

Type 1) Loves Asian culture. Loves sushi, karaoke, kimchi, and Asian men in general. This kind of white woman is rare, but less so than before with the emergence of Asians in mainstream media. This type of woman will pretty much pick YOU over a white guy.

 

Type 2) An open minded girl. Usually liberal. Maybe artsy, Ivy educated. She is not into Asian men in particular per se, but is open to the idea of dating them, just because, well, she is open minded. Example: When you come to NYC, the chances of you meeting a white woman who will date an Asian man are much better in hipster Williamsburg than in the Upper East Side frat/sorority scene. Liberal = open minded = Asian men. In general.

 

Now, there's some Asian guys who are so good looking that white men will break their rules. My buddy knows this one Asian dude who pulls white wowomen that look like models. But in general, it's rough.

 

And in terms of your friend's theories, it doesn't matter why things are, it just matters that they are. You are not going to change things (as a whole) and neither am I.

 

I have a few Asian friends that are MACK. They have dated a few white women, but they largely go for Asian women. It's just so much easier. If you're a desirable Asian guy, why struggle with hitting on and getting rejected by white women, when Asian girls are hitting on you?

 

This is generalized. Every now and then, you may meet a white woman who is conservative and from the Jersey Shore, and is open to dating Asian men, but not often. And just to let you know, Black and Latina women are just as tough.

 

As for myself, I have never dated a white woman. I do hit on them from time to time, but usually go for Asian women. There have been a few cases where I have developed feelings for white women (through work/school), but it has always ended in rejection. Doesn't really bother me. I don't care if I end up with a white, brown or yellow, or purple woman.

 

I have dated non-Asians though, and kind of seeing one right now. She is definitely Type 1.

[jobaba]

B If you think about it, most people prefer to date within their race. However there are exceptions and a small percentage are willing to date outside their race.

 

Yes, this is true but there definitely is a hierarchy. Don't delude yourself. The number of white American women willing to date an Asian man is maybe 33% (total guess).

 

The number Asian American men (born here) willing to date a white woman is probably 97%! :lmao:

[jobaba]

 

SO WHAT if someone is a different nationality, race, rich, poor, cute, plain, big, or small ? We are all people. None of us chose where we were born. We all have hearts and souls. We need to get back to using them, rather than chasing material things or status quo, or a better than the Jones's life.

 

Holy Sh@t!

 

Do you want to go on a date?

 

Seriously...

[verhrzn]

I'm an Asian guy, quite a bit older than you, and have lived in NYC for a lot of my life. So, this is kind of meant to 'help' you rather than argue with the masses here.

 

White girls are tough. That is the bottom line. If you are h@llbent on getting white girls and no others, you may be in for a rough time.

 

In my experience, there's two types of white girls who will date Asian men:

Type 1) Loves Asian culture. Loves sushi, karaoke, kimchi, and Asian men in general. This kind of white woman is rare, but less so than before with the emergence of Asians in mainstream media. This type of woman will pretty much pick YOU over a white guy.

 

Type 2) An open minded girl. Usually liberal. Maybe artsy, Ivy educated. She is not into Asian men in particular per se, but is open to the idea of dating them, just because, well, she is open minded. Example: When you come to NYC, the chances of you meeting a white woman who will date an Asian man are much better in hipster Williamsburg than in the Upper East Side frat/sorority scene. Liberal = open minded = Asian men. In general.

 

Now, there's some Asian guys who are so good looking that white men will break their rules. My buddy knows this one Asian dude who pulls white wowomen that look like models. But in general, it's rough.

 

And in terms of your friend's theories, it doesn't matter why things are, it just matters that they are. You are not going to change things (as a whole) and neither am I.

 

I have a few Asian friends that are MACK. They have dated a few white women, but they largely go for Asian women. It's just so much easier. If you're a desirable Asian guy, why struggle with hitting on and getting rejected by white women, when Asian girls are hitting on you?

 

This is generalized. Every now and then, you may meet a white woman who is conservative and from the Jersey Shore, and is open to dating Asian men, but not often. And just to let you know, Black and Latina women are just as tough.

 

As for myself, I have never dated a white woman. I do hit on them from time to time, but usually go for Asian women. There have been a few cases where I have developed feelings for white women (through work/school), but it has always ended in rejection. Doesn't really bother me. I don't care if I end up with a white, brown or yellow, or purple woman.

 

I have dated non-Asians though, and kind of seeing one right now. She is definitely Type 1.

 

Yep, this is excellent advice. Me myself, I am Type 1 (speak Japanese, lived there for a year) and I'm a big fan of Asian guys. I also just read an article on Slate advising single women to check out speed-dating at Comic Cons, and take advantage of the untapped resource of awesome Asian guys.

[Quiet Storm]

I think you will be better off in NYC.

 

I am Irish/Cherokee. I married a black man...but I do think there are attractive Asian men.

 

Sung Kang (Han from Fast & Furious) is one I can think of off the top of my head. Jason Scott Lee is another. Daniel Henney.

 

I think you just have to surround yourself with more open minded people.

[Pierre]

I see many Asian women with White dudes, but very few whites with Asian females.

 

Few black women with white guys and a lot of white females with black guys.

 

I am not sire why white women over Asian men. Statistically Asian men are more educated and earn a higher income.

 

Maybe Black men are smooth and Asian men have no game.