Happy for him, AND his wife...?

[Silly_Girl]

And that's my point. Lots of us have had those feelings connecting with affairs, but I learned upon reflection that those feelings didn't match up with my actions at the time. So, positive feelings for the BS not connected to actual positive actions toward the BS, may just be a way to make us feel better. One can learn from asking oneself what actions back up those feelings.

 

This isn't about my feelings for her. It's about my feelings towards him.

[SBC]

 

 

. I would have D my W two years ago, but ... she didn't have a job and hadn't had one for 6 years prior. The housing market tanked, so selling the house wasn't an option. We had other shared financial obligations and issues to deal with (primarily due to her not working for so long). She is a hoarder, so she has a ton of crap to clean out and get rid of. Over the past few years, she became a severe alcoholic, and suffers from depression that has been anywhere from severe to worse over the past few years (worsened by her failed A's). She also has some medical issues (primarily due to her alcoholism) so getting a D would create a problem for her in that she'd lose her medical coverage (insurance through my job).

 

When I told her we were splitting up 2 years ago, I told her we didn't need to do anything immediately in order to give her time to find a job, get professional help to deal with her demons, get our finances in order, figure out what to do with the house, give her time to get herself together and get out, etc. I also told her she was free to date or do whatever else she pleased from that moment on (not as though she hadn't already been doing exactly that), and that I might do the same (I had not yet, at that point, reconnected with GF).

 

I could have booted her on D-Day, but I didn't, because she said she wanted to stay, wanted to stay M, wanted to work things out. I spent 15 months doing everything I could, while she did nothing. At the end of those 15 months, I told her I had no idea what else to do for her, that she needed professional help, that, although we were splitting up, I would continue to do anything and everything I could for her, help her in any way I could.

 

I do. I have. I still do. ... even though she doesn't deserve an ounce of caring from me.

 

W stays at a BF's house, getting drunk and sleeping, for days. If she gets a DUI or creates other legal trouble, I risk spending tens of thousands of dollars to deal with it, money I don't have. The safe, smart thing for me to do would be to D her. I don't, because doing so would put her out on the street (none of her BF's care enough to offer her a permanent place to stay - they tire of her after a few days and send her home), as well as create further difficulties for her financially, medically, emotionally.

 

I do all this, and put up with her abuse and other problems, because I love her. I don't like her. I can't be M to her - because I can't trust her. ... but I will always love her. That's not something I can choose to stop.

 

So... do you want to explain to me again about how I don't know what love is??

 

What you are describing is not love, it is enabling. Although it seems counter intuitive, you are doing your W no favors. I have been down this road with my exH. Until they are forced to hit bottom where the only two places to go are up or out, they will just linger near the bottom in complete misery for you, her and everyone associated with them.

 

Truthfully, and with all sincerity, you need professional help too.

Edited November 11, 2011 by SBC

[Toots]

I read something on here the other day which reminded me of some long ago feelings of mine.

 

An OW said that if her MM could find true happiness with his wife, she'd be happy for him. I know this feeling. I know, without a doubt, that if he had said 'I am going to make it work with my wife (and I had any inkling he genuinely meant 'to reconcile' versus 'I can't leave') I would have supported that; by telling him I supported his decision and by leaving him the Hell alone. And I'd have been rooting for them.

 

I'd have hurt, and wished WE had worked out, of course I would, but I always did try and consider the whole situation and the best outcome for all 3 people affected. If they turned out to be happy and I had been unhappy - for a time - how could I argue against that. Plus, I love him, want him to be happy.

 

Anyone else feel that now, or in the past?

 

I don't think my xMM could be really happy with his W. Or with anyone. He is too deeply wounded.

[MissBee]

What you are describing is not love, it is enabling. Although it seems counter intuitive, you are doing your W no favors. I have been down this road with my exH. Until they are forced to hit bottom where the only two places to go are up or out, they will just linger near the bottom in complete misery for you, her and everyone associated with them.

 

Truthfully, and with all sincerity, you need professional help too.

 

I agree...

 

In intervention scenarios, usually the counselor also counsels the family member and friends of the addicted person, as they are often very much complicit in the bad behavior of their loved one. They often think they are helping them by giving them money, a place to stay, so on and so forth and the hardest part is to realize they have to stop! I've looked at so many of those Interventions, where the counselor requires them to be strict and not give their son/daughter/husband/wife money, a place to sleep, to even call the cops on them etc. and most people of course cannot or resist doing that because they feel it is cruel....but in reality, it's the definition of tough love...as obviously what they've been doing up til now, has NOT helped this person one bit. These people have lived for years sacrificing their own life, putting up with all kinds of craziness and dangerous situations because of their addicted love one...and some actually thrive on being able to in some ways "control" this addicted person as they know they depend on them to support their addiction. They of course, are not readily aware of that.

 

Like you said too, often the counselor recommends the entire family go to counseling, as both have been wrapped up in the dysfunctional situation for so long and all parties need to understand why they allow what they allow and to simply recognize problematic behaviors and responses and learning new and effective ways that are indeed counter to what you think you should do...

[Silly_Girl]

I don't think my xMM could be really happy with his W. Or with anyone. He is too deeply wounded.

 

That's too sad. No one should be in the position of not being able to move towards happiness, even if the journey starts at a very bad place.

[SoMovinOn]

If everything you say about your wife is true then you sound like her enabler and enabling a person to continue in their life of alcoholism and self destruction isn't an act of love.

 

You are correct in thinking I could very easily be an enabler here. I am aware of that risk. I could not provide every detail of our life together, nor explain everything I have done to help her. I have spent time with professionals, including her therapist, discussing what I should and shouldn't be doing.

[SoMovinOn]

SMO, people like you are the reason I hate labels.

 

I certainly don't wear labels well, and I find they almost never work on anyone else either. I am a lot of things, as are most people. Those who'd like to pin a label on someone usually attempt to do so by only looking at a small portion of that person. Once they pin a label on them, they pat themselves on the back, thinking they know all their is to know. In reality, they usually know very little of anything.

 

 

So kudos for making such a big sacrifice.

 

Thank you for your encouragement and support. Let me say though, I have made mistakes and my own contributions to W & I being where we are right now. I can never know how things may have turned out had I done some things differently years ago. The best I, or anyone, can do, is to continue learning and growing and do the best for myself and the people I love.

 

Also, so as not to paint a skewed picture of her... my W was an awesome W for many, many years. We had a lot of very good years together. It is difficult to have known her that way, and to see what she has now become, but... I know what she was, and, I still see the good parts of her that are still there.

 

If you were to take all the problems away - the alcoholism, the depression, her A's... we'd still have grown apart. Whereas we once shared common goals and dreams, we have gone in different directions in that regard. It's likely, we'd still be getting a D, but... who knows. In any event, there is nothing terrible about growing in different directions, acknowledging that, and going your separate ways. That can be done with love.

[SoMovinOn]

Truthfully, and with all sincerity, you need professional help too.

 

I'll mention that to my therapist.

[frozensprouts]

somovingon..

 

one more question/comment for you and then i will leave you alone:)...

 

you say that the married woman that you are having an affair with can't tell her husband because if he found out she was cheating, he may physically harm her ( am i right or wrong in my understanding of this)?

 

If this is true, why, why, why do you involve yourself in a situation that could lead to her ebing ahrmed like that/ If you love her ( or even care a smidgen about her) why not encouage her to leave her husband and be safe and then when she is able to be witrh you without having that worry over her head, then by all means, have a relationship with her?

does he have kids... do you? what if her husband finds out she's cheating and he harms her, his kids, you, your wife, your kids?

 

you yourswelf say he's abusive and capable of causing her physical hard... why increase the risk of that happening... yes, it's her choice to be in the affair, but why encourage it if it could hurt her?

 

During my work work helping to get a shelter set up to provide a safe place for victims of domestic abuse, one of the things i learned was that an abused spouse cheating on their abusive spouse is a very dangerous thing...why help to put her even more at risk?

[Silly_Girl]

...and going your separate ways. That can be done with love.

 

Yes it can.

 

Unfortunately it's rare.

[SBC]

I'll mention that to my therapist.

 

Looks like I am the one that needs therapy.

 

I sincerely apologize

Edited November 11, 2011 by SBC

[SoMovinOn]

somovingon..

one more question/comment for you and then i will leave you alone:)...

 

We're just talking here. No need for you to feel I need not be bothered. Ask any questions you like. As you see, I'm fine with answering anything you ask.

 

 

you say that the married woman that you are having an affair with can't tell her husband because if he found out she was cheating, he may physically harm her ( am i right or wrong in my understanding of this)?

 

You are right. His is controlling, emotionally abusive, and has had a few episodes of minor physical abuse (if there is such a thing).

 

 

If this is true, why, why, why do you involve yourself in a situation that could lead to her being harmed like that...

 

I don't have a good answer for that. Anything I say would just appear an excuse or justification. She and I discussed options as we progressed towards our physical A. The bottom line is, we are involved with each other because we choose to be.

 

If you love her ( or even care a smidgen about her) why not encourage her to leave her husband and be safe...

 

I assure you, I have, as well as provided her with information on abuse and on the resources available to her. I have arranged safe havens for her, should she need to escape to safety.

 

I love her deeply. I wish for nothing more than for her to leave her abusive relationship - whether she chooses to be with me or not. ... but, I have to admit, I probably don't push as hard as I should, as I feel my doing so would come across as biased as I obviously have other motives for convincing her to leave.

 

 

....and then when she is able to be witrh you without having that worry over her head, then by all means, have a relationship with her?

 

We discussed that option. We started out that way. We'd just all be friends, hang out now and then. Then, when she and I were both single, we'd date. Over time, we realized that would likely mean it would be years before we'd date. As we already feel we've missed 30 years together, we decided we didn't want to miss any more. Either of us could die tomorrow... people more often regret what they don't do.

 

does he have kids... do you? what if her husband finds out she's cheating and he harms her, his kids, you, your wife, your kids?

 

There are no kids involved.

 

The consequences of him harming her, or making any attempts to harm me or my W, are the same as they would be if he were to do so without her and I being involved in an A.

 

 

you yourself say he's abusive and capable of causing her physical harm... why increase the risk of that happening?... yes, it's her choice to be in the affair, but why encourage it if it could hurt her?

 

You're right... I could be the one to refuse to participate, making it impossible for her to have an A with me. I have chosen not to take that route, for the reasons listed above.

 

 

During my work work helping to get a shelter set up to provide a safe place for victims of domestic abuse, one of the things i learned was that an abused spouse cheating on their abusive spouse is a very dangerous thing...why help to put her even more at risk?

 

There is no acceptable answer to that question. We know the risk. We believe we do everything possible to minimize that risk (doesn't everyone?)... it is a risk we choose over our other available choices.

[SoMovinOn]

Looks like I am the one that needs therapy.

 

I sincerely apologize

 

No need to apologize. How would you know?

We're all good.

[mzdolphin]

A year of NC went by for me and then the exMM came back in the picture. I remember telling him I thought he had decided to work on his marriage and do right by his wife and I felt good about that.

 

Him returning actually made me lose respect for him. I could almost understand when they were living miles apart and going though stuff him thinking he was checking out of the marriage.

 

But after moving back home, I figure you need to get it together, go to counseling, make it right or get out. The constant cheating. Why? What's the point?

[Silly_Girl]

A year of NC went by for me and then the exMM came back in the picture. I remember telling him I thought he had decided to work on his marriage and do right by his wife and I felt good about that.

 

Him returning actually made me lose respect for him. I could almost understand when they were living miles apart and going though stuff him thinking he was checking out of the marriage.

 

But after moving back home, I figure you need to get it together, go to counseling, make it right or get out. The constant cheating. Why? What's the point?

 

That attitude confuses me completely. To make a choice but then do eff all. Go back and work your little nuts off and realise its not going to work, and leave... But that halfway that does no good for anyone. Can't accept or excuse that.

[mzdolphin]

That attitude confuses me completely. To make a choice but then do eff all. Go back and work your little nuts off and realise its not going to work, and leave... But that halfway that does no good for anyone. Can't accept or excuse that.

 

 

I will never understand this type, the type that is ok dwelling in the middle, staying in grey areas. How can they claim to care for either the wife or the AP when they lie to both and keep both hanging on? Sad. What they don't realize is by trying the cheat on their partner they cheat themselves from an honest relationship. Because the BS and the OW lose respect for them and never truly trust them.

[Hazyhead]

I will never understand this type, the type that is ok dwelling in the middle, staying in grey areas. How can they claim to care for either the wife or the AP when they lie to both and keep both hanging on? Sad. What they don't realize is by trying the cheat on their partner they cheat themselves from an honest relationship. Because the BS and the OW lose respect for them and never truly trust them.

 

Agree completely. It's a shame for them and those that stick around them because I honestly don't see how anybody in this situation can be happy.

 

To answer the original question, if xMM did ever get back together with his wife and they found genuine happiness, then I would be happy for them. And me, because I know he would never come sniffing back around and I could fully move on.