Is alcohol the key to hooking up with women?

[FredRutherford]

I think having sex from the start with a woman increases the likelihood that you WON'T have a relationship.

 

The feelings generally have to be -there- for women to have sex (although plenty still have sex without feelings for the guy of any kind). Having sex may deepen a relationship, but I don't think it causes a woman to fall in love and want to start a relationship. I think that folks who are relationship-minded typically wait a little bit longer to get into the sack, but again, that's not everyone.

 

Sex too early can often ruin what could be a great relationship.

Develop feelings first, SomeDude, then the sex should flow later.

I'm ashamed of those of my gender who act like brats and pant after jerks.

Hence the reason these boards have many cynical, disappointed inexperienced men.

 

The brainless women chase after the bad boys, passing over the ones who would be faithful and provide them fulfilling relationships.

Can't blame these guys for their bitterness. Some of these "ladies" have contributed to this.

 

 

On "taking advantage" of intoxicated women, I did that -- once.

No, I didn't get her "liquored up" so I could have my way with her.

In her apt., she lit up a joint. I didn't partake with her and was firmly against doing drugs.

 

Still, I sensed it compromised her state of mind and think it helped "loosen" her resistance to me.

 

Was this rape? No.

I had no control over her body nor what she did. I didn't supply her the intoxicating agent.

 

Didn't feel good about what happened then and don't now.

Edited November 13, 2011 by FredRutherford

[doushenka]

Real adults know their limits. That does not give anyone of any gender license to take advantage of those who haven't figured those limits out yet, male or female or otherwise!

 

Two drunken idiots sleeping together? Fine, chalk it up to horrible judgment. But when one of them's sober enough to know better, that's dodgy. I'd turn myself in for a rapist if I got a man to have sex with me drunk when he wouldn't sober. That's equality. That's what I believe in. We're all people in the end and should do right by each other, not try to get what we want at all costs. How would any of you feel if you were used by someone you wouldn't have been willing to have sex with in your right mind?

 

Apparently the age of the hookup is also the age of "I got mine, so sod you."

[doushenka]

Hence the reason these boards have many cynical, disappointed inexperienced men.

 

The brainless women chase after the bad boys, passing over the ones who would be faithful and provide them fulfilling relationships.

Can't blame these guys for their bitterness. Some of these "ladies" have contributed to this.

 

Which is too bad for the rest of us ladies, who might have liked these men were they not so very cynical, disappointed, and inclined to dislike a whole gender based on a loud, miserable few.

 

It's a complex problem with many contributing factors. Boiling them down to essentials such as "It's all men!" or "It's all women!" does nothing to remediate the problem. Fighting between the sexes is a handy distraction from what's wrong: that the species has by and large evolved past empathy and compassion for one's fellow human.

[FredRutherford]

So Fred, I hope you don't believe in equality if men are supposed to act like some random drunk girls dad when she asks for it?

 

Or do you believe in modern feminism , which says that men are supposed to be patriarchs when it benefits women and grab their ankles on issues like their own child's abortion, divorce, child custody?

Whoa.... Wolf.

Just sayin' don't be irresponsible with woman.

If a guy sees a woman is clearly drunk, that in no way give him permission to have sex with her.

If she asks for it, of course she invited it but just bec. someone can do something, doesn't mean it's right.

If your so irresponsible that you're going to hook up with a guy then accuse him of rape when you find out he's ugly the next day, then stay home and play with your dolls on saturday night.

I don't support false rape accusations.

Know they occur, of course.

I hope you and the rest of the morality police will be "real men" when I get into a drunken bar fight and protest that I was taken advantage of on my court date.

 

By saying it's wrong for men to have sex with a woman because she's drunk is saying that women are not capable of responsibility and need to be baby sat. If that's the case then don't let women drink.

Please don't label me as "morality police."

Am not telling others what to do or not do do in terms of sexual hookups.

Just talking common sense here.

 

SomeDude,

Drunken sex won't be that good anyway, as either or both parties won't know what they're doing and may be blacked out.

 

Drunken people don't appeal to me and didn't when I dated.

 

One woman who worked in another dept. at my office, was seriously considering asking her out on a date.

That is, until I saw her get gassed at a company Christmas party.

 

"Blah, blah, blah.... This and that.. " all the rambling and incoherent words she sputtered in public.

 

That erased any thought of me having a future with her.

[FredRutherford]

Hence the reason these boards have many cynical, disappointed inexperienced men.

 

The brainless women chase after the bad boys, passing over the ones who would be faithful and provide them fulfilling relationships.

Can't blame these guys for their bitterness. Some of these "ladies" have contributed to this.

Will admit I'm somewhat disappointed too, as some may have "passed me up" and gone for the wrong kind of guy.

Or couldn't see what I could have offered them in college and beyond when I tried to talk them into going out with me...

 

Which is too bad for the rest of us ladies, who might have liked these men were they not so very cynical, disappointed, and inclined to dislike a whole gender based on a loud, miserable few.

 

It's a complex problem with many contributing factors. Boiling them down to essentials such as "It's all men!" or "It's all women!" does nothing to remediate the problem. Fighting between the sexes is a handy distraction from what's wrong: that the species has by and large evolved past empathy and compassion for one's fellow human.

Those women who go for the bad boys bring it on themselves, in a lot of cases.

 

A relative dated the "bad boys..." and earned a soiled reputation in the small town she lived. Had children out of wedlock at an inappropriate age...

 

She also married some bad boys who ripped the life out of her and left a toll of destruction on her and her childrens' lives, who were all by different "fathers."

With no real male influence in their upbringing, this woman's daughters followed similar paths and bore children in their teens....

Only one of the five actually has a real career and "woke up" and isn't with an abusive man.

Edited November 13, 2011 by FredRutherford

[dasein]

You're not understanding this. The girl doesn't have to black out. She doesn't have to be unconscious. You could even tape record her giving her consent, and it would still be rape because DRUNK PEOPLE CANNOT LEGALLY CONSENT.

 

OP Look up rape laws and cases in your state if you want to know how drunk someone has to be to avoid consent. Don't believe the above, find out the facts in your state. Im no expert but have a hunch they have to be close to being incapacitated, and could fail a DUI test but consent to sex just fine.

[somedude81]

What are some ways to start drinking socially with women?

 

I'm not much of a frat party guy nor do I like the bar/club scene.

 

The only way I can think of is to somehow get the woman over to my place in the evening and then offer her something.

[jobaba]

What are some ways to start drinking socially with women?

 

I'm not much of a frat party guy nor do I like the bar/club scene.

 

The only way I can think of is to somehow get the woman over to my place in the evening and then offer her something.

 

You need friends.

 

You need guy friends who know girl friends who throw parties and invite you to stuff.

 

You need female friends you can invite to bars both in a platonic and romantic manner or ambiguous.

 

Make friends.

[PlumPrincess]

I should feel concerned when guys are working on a dubious plan to outsmart girls, but in this case I guess there's no need for that.

[dasein]

I should feel concerned when guys are working on a dubious plan to outsmart girls, but in this case I guess there's no need for that.

 

I should feel concerned when I see an environment where women fill bars and clubs at night, drinking just as much as men do, acting in all the same bad, drunken ways men do, making the same bad choices men do, yet instead of admitting that life is full of choices, and one is accountable and responsible for the choices they make, take every opportunity to somehow shift blame for their own bad choices to men as some innate female privilege.

 

... and in this case there is a very real need to be concerned.

[PlumPrincess]

I should feel concerned when I see an environment where women fill bars and clubs at night, drinking just as much as men do, acting in all the same bad, drunken ways men do, making the same bad choices men do, yet instead of admitting that life is full of choices, and one is accountable and responsible for the choices they make, take every opportunity to somehow shift blame for their own bad choices to men as some innate female privilege.

 

... and in this case there is a very real need to be concerned.

Hey, if you're looking to hook up with girls for the sex, then go ahead, but don't assume that it's going to be the start of a great relationship. I once turned a guy down even though he was kind of cute, because it doesn't make sense to me to get involved with someone emotionally who might have a change of heart the next morning when he is sober.

[aj22one]

Hey, if you're looking to hook up with girls for the sex, then go ahead, but don't assume that it's going to be the start of a great relationship. I once turned a guy down even though he was kind of cute, because it doesn't make sense to me to get involved with someone emotionally who might have a change of heart the next morning when he is sober.

 

But, it's far easier for a guy to turn a drunken hookup into a relationship than it would be for a guy to turn a friendzone situation into a relationship. That's the distinction.

[Taramere]

Scary. Some creepy guys out there. Notice I didn't call them "men."

 

I've been on plenty of dates, been on my own plenty of times with men without them behaving a threatening way. That incident stood out in my mind as a very creepy situation with somebody who I believe might well have been likely to have raped me if we'd been on our own together.

 

One of the other things I remember is that he told me I seemed somewhat nervous. He asked "have you had a bad experience with men?" Which I took as a roundabout "have you been molested?" question. That, to me, is a pretty messed up question to ask somebody you're out on a date with. Combined with buying me far stronger drinks than I realised, it was definitely a big red flag.

 

It would be like me asking, in response to the discovery of the drinks being trebles, "have you ever hoodwinked a woman into drinking beyond her limit, then provided her with a 'bad experience' while she was out of it?"

 

My advice to any woman in that situation would be to do what I did. Look for an escape route asap. Don't worry about seeming rude. Being polite isn't a priority around somebody who has set out to get you drunk, and wants to turn the conversation around to any "bad experiences" he thinks (hopes? ) you might have had.

[betterdeal]

What are some ways to start drinking socially with women?

 

I'm not much of a frat party guy nor do I like the bar/club scene.

 

The only way I can think of is to somehow get the woman over to my place in the evening and then offer her something.

 

It's well established that you can give someone non-alcoholic drinks in a drinking setting and if they think they are drinking alcohol, they will loosen up and get "social drunk". Some people can even loosen up without a drink and without even thinking they're drinking, especially in a social setting.

 

It's the loosening up that matters. Whatever it is that does it for you, do it and loosen up.

[triphopper414]

No it is not. It can help people loosen up a little bit. I think it is kinda pathetic that guys try to get girls drunk just to sleep with them. It says to me, "Oh I have nothing else to offer you for except alcohol. I hope that is enough for you."

 

As a girl and when meeting guys I am attracted to men who show me that they can offer me something more than just a one-night stand. Buying someone a drink is an ice breaker.

 

You need to evaluate what you can offer a woman and use that as your selling point. I don't mean bragging, but embrace your talents, gifts, and things that make you unique. Be confident and then ladies will be buying you drinks.

 

I think in order for women to make out with a guy there has to be a biological attraction, not a alcoholic one. You may catch a girl who is so effing drunk that she would be willing to do anything. Then you are taking advantage of her. Is that how you really want to attract women? By doing no work and trying to get laid on a chance?

[dasein]

OP, lots of noise in this thread, I've been guilty of some of it. The answer is simple. If in your dating pool, a large majority of first sexual encounters take place where one or both parties has any amount of alcohol in their system, and relatively few first encounters take place between parties with no alcohol in their system, then it's only pragmatic to wonder if you should involve alcohol in your socializing. It doesn't necessarily have to do with setting out to get women drunk, but merely acknowledging social realities and adapting one's personal socializing to those realities.

 

Have posted on ways to involve alcohol in your social life in a healthy way. Concentrate on quality of the experience and overlapping sensual stimuli and you won't have to worry whether a woman slept with you merely because she was under the influence of alcohol. You will know plainly there was more to it.

[Negative Nancy]

Will admit I'm somewhat disappointed too, as some may have "passed me up" and gone for the wrong kind of guy.

Or couldn't see what I could have offered them in college and beyond when I tried to talk them into going out with me...

 

let's be real here, what kind of women have "passed you up"? I bet it was the hot girls, so you are just as guilty of "passing up" and ;not seeing" what the plain janes and wallflowers could have offered that might have been good for you.

 

men always complain how no women is interested in them, but what they really mean is that none of the hot girls goes for them while the men in turn ignore the "good girls" cos they're too boring or not hot looking enough.

[fortyninethousand322]

let's be real here, what kind of women have "passed you up"? I bet it was the hot girls, so you are just as guilty of "passing up" and ;not seeing" what the plain janes and wallflowers could have offered that might have been good for you.

 

men always complain how no women is interested in them, but what they really mean is that none of the hot girls goes for them while the men in turn ignore the "good girls" cos they're too boring or not hot looking enough.

 

Let's be real here: you're massively generalizing and are probably very wrong here. It's not like you (being a female) could possibly relate to a man's experience.

 

Personally, I've never gone for the "hot girls".

[PlumPrincess]

But, it's far easier for a guy to turn a drunken hookup into a relationship than it would be for a guy to turn a friendzone situation into a relationship. That's the distinction.

I doubt the relationship skills of a guy who can only get intimate with a girl when she is drunk. And what kind of relationship is that anyway that starts with manipulation.

[Cracker Jack]

let's be real here, what kind of women have "passed you up"? I bet it was the hot girls, so you are just as guilty of "passing up" and ;not seeing" what the plain janes and wallflowers could have offered that might have been good for you.

 

men always complain how no women is interested in them, but what they really mean is that none of the hot girls goes for them while the men in turn ignore the "good girls" cos they're too boring or not hot looking enough.

 

You don't think it's possible for an "average" woman to overlook a good man? Because I can tell you it's happened quite a few times in my experiences. It's not just a "hottie" thing. The main women I've been the closest to were attractive in my eyes, but they weren't looked at as hotties, and they usually had self-esteem issues.

 

Oh, and I have to agree with fortynine on the generalizing.

[fortyninethousand322]

I doubt the relationship skills of a guy who can only get intimate with a girl when she is drunk. And what kind of relationship is that anyway.

 

Better than none. Plus, in this case (with Somedude) he can't even get a date with a girl. He's got to do what he's got to do.

[FredRutherford]

Originally Posted by FredRutherford

 

Will admit I'm somewhat disappointed too, as some may have "passed me up" and gone for the wrong kind of guy.

Or couldn't see what I could have offered them in college and beyond when I tried to talk them into going out with me...

let's be real here, what kind of women have "passed you up"?

I bet it was the hot girls, so you are just as guilty of "passing up" and ;not seeing" what the plain janes and wallflowers could have offered that might have been good for you.

 

men always complain how no women is interested in them, but what they really mean is that none of the hot girls goes for them while the men in turn ignore the "good girls" cos they're too boring or not hot looking enough.

Nope. No "hot" girls.

Average (mostly) to good looking, in my eyes.

 

Am told I'm "good looking."

 

Thought I'd have much to offer them.

Was never looks-focused in my choice of dating partners.

Edited November 13, 2011 by FredRutherford

[Wolf18]

Yeah I don't get where people assume men only hit on the hottest girls. I think actually that the average looking women are even harder to pull than the hottest chicks for the reason someone else pointed out here once, the hot girls know that the 1% of men women are all lusting for aren't all their cracked up to be while the average girls want to have their disney princess moment.

 

Hell, even my 23 year old obese, mean spirited, white trashy, mother of 2 former coworker get told she was pretty or flirted with by customers

[Shaun-Dro]

From what I've read about, many women don't develop feelings for a guy till after they've had sex or made-out. And of course, it seems very unlikely for one to get a woman to sleep with a man without her having feelings for him first

 

So is that where booze comes in? She gets drunk and horny, has sex and then a relationship starts?

 

Is that what I've been doing wrong, not trying to get girls I know drunk?

 

Drunk girls always spread their legs and to anyone, so go for it. Just don't set out to deliberately get them drunk. The best thing to do is engage the women in conversation while drinking and just keep the liquor coming.

 

Doing this will naturally drop her defenses to you, since women on purpose don't give men chances, so let the alcohol free that up for you.

[FredRutherford]

let's be real here, what kind of women have "passed you up"? I bet it was the hot girls, so you are just as guilty of "passing up" and ;not seeing" what the plain janes and wallflowers could have offered that might have been good for you.

 

men always complain how no women is interested in them, but what they really mean is that none of the hot girls goes for them while the men in turn ignore the "good girls" cos they're too boring or not hot looking enough.

Nancy.

Have seen your solid posts, but wrong guess here, though you were apparently trying for humor, as I agree many guys waste their energy on the "hawt" gals.

 

I know my limitations and how I've never been Mr. Popular and understand my capabilities, so never really chased after the hot ones.

This isn't to say I didn't go for the attractive girls, but knew the hot or super-popular ones generally wouldn't want anything to do with me.

This despite women and men telling me (even in my 40s:rolleyes:) I had no problem in the looks dept.

 

Ended up marrying an attractive woman, but one who considers herself average.

 

Searching facebook for current photos of some women I TRIED to date (but was told no), I see some are morbidly overweight, or suffer depression or some other tragedies, or turned out looking far different from when I knew them in college and in my early 20s.

One never married, and only has her adopted child as her "family."

Not sayin' I was some great catch, but that female work colleague could have experienced life differently had she not frustrated my attempts to snag a date with her...

 

Will admit, my shyness in my teens and early 20s didn't help and may have contributed to my lack of diligence in purusing the "regular" -looking gals I chased.

 

One HS female friend (not GF) in a facebook PM, after I asked her how she viewed me (then), told me I was a "quiet, keep-to-yourself kind of guy..."

I sure wasn't a player and would have welcomed any kind of female attention.

Edited November 14, 2011 by FredRutherford