Cheater looking for a solution

[Toodamnpragmatic]

It maybe all you need to know..maybe not so much for others.

 

A blind allegiance to the concept to all affairs are wrong, I can't think of a better reason to have one.

 

What else should the OP have done, if we are to believe what he has said (and I do), short of divorce or separation?

[stillafool]

IWhat I really wanted perspective on was the five year sexless marriage, affair, sincerity of my wife seeking to reconcile.

 

 

You have said that at this point you don't want to have sex with your wife anymore, that at this point you wouldn't care if she had another man. You say she is aware of your affair but you do not want to leave because you don't want to lose 50% of your possessions. You have said you have enough money that everyone would be okay if you do split. You have said your wife would have had sex with you if you were the one to initiate it. So it isn't that she wouldn't have sex it's just that she doesn't desire you in that way. You have said you are falling for the OW and your sex life with her is great. You have said that you feel the only reason your wife wants to reconcile and start having sex is because she doesn't want to lose her lifestyle yet she makes a six figure salary.

 

So with everything you have said my only suggestion would be to file for the divorce and continue the relationship with the OW. Money is not worth staying in a horrible marriage. You can always make more money. Doesn't your OW have a job?

 

I agree that your wife is not going to start feeling truly sexual towards you and if she is willing to look the other way while you continue an affair she doesn't really love you. I think that she too will be happier if you end the marriage because she will be free to date a man that can open her up sexually. I know this will be hard on your daughter at first, but children are resilient and once she sees how much happier both her parents are she will be okay. I must say you and your wife are in a far greater position to file for divorce than most people. What are you waiting for? If your answer is still "I don't want to lose 50% of my money", there's really nothing more anyone here can tell you because you desire money more than love.

[stillafool]

What else should the OP have done, if we are to believe what he has said (and I do), short of divorce or separation?

 

He should divorce. He has said he has no feelings for his wife anymore and she obviously has none for him.

[StoneCold]

He should divorce. He has said he has no feelings for his wife anymore and she obviously has none for him.

 

ok.....

 

but

 

Why should she not have divorced?

[bentnotbroken]

A blind allegiance to the concept to all affairs are wrong, I can't think of a better reason to have one.

 

What else should the OP have done, if we are to believe what he has said (and I do), short of divorce or separation?

 

 

And her in lies our differing opinions. I don't have a problem with separation or divorce and yes, I do believe all affairs are wrong no matter the excuse used to commit said act. Does it matter what my belief is for the OP and his wife...no. I think they both have some major issues that neither is willing to figure out. Does his belief (or anyone who thinks there is a justifiable reason for cheating)that what is did was a result of her major issues change my stance...no. So we are all in agreement. We don't agree. I can always live with that. It is what makes the world go round. *shrug*

[StoneCold]

You have said that you feel the only reason your wife wants to reconcile and start having sex is because she doesn't want to lose her lifestyle yet she makes a six figure salary..

 

Money is not worth staying in a horrible marriage. You can always make more money. Doesn't your OW have a job?

 

I agree that your wife is not going to start feeling truly sexual towards you and if she is willing to look the other way while you continue an affair she doesn't really love you. I think that she too will be happier if you end the marriage because she will be free to date a man that can open her up sexually. I know this will be hard on your daughter at first, but children are resilient and once she sees how much happier both her parents are she will be okay. I must say you and your wife are in a far greater position to file for divorce than most people. What are you waiting for? If your answer is still "I don't want to lose 50% of my money", there's really nothing more anyone here can tell you because you desire money more than love.

 

 

I think we have already established that money isnt everything...and that probably divorce is the best option. the OP clearly gets this....

 

But what I think many dont get is it really hurts to have the money you worked hard for stripped away. Either people dont get this or they are affraid to admit it. Yes his wife makes good money but she has become used to a lifestyle that exceeds her financial breadth because she was married to a guy that makes 3 times she makes. This could potentially (and to the OP...right or wrong... I hope this doesnt happen) lead to a massive support payment. This can be financially crippling; I see it everyday at work..and to add insult to injury this will be a support payment payable to a person who is certainly capable of supporting her self (she'll just have to give up a few luxuries but she alone will still be way ahead of the average household income....which aint 6 figures)

 

Then theres the assets which I assume he invested more in than her simply because he makes 3 times her income....half of this will just almost evaporate. If she makes 6 figures and he makes 3 times this... we are looking at at least a half million in income per annum. Do you know how much assets that will drive over the years? What are we looking at? a 3M dollar net worth? likely more?

 

No money isnt everything...but it is something and its understandable that hes scared. Have any of you had to pay out 10K in monthly support payments? and write six figure cheques to lawyers (depending on how proceedings go this can easily happen)....any of you ever forced to sell an asset (out of distress) and then write a cheque for half a mill and got nothing in return? (I dont know anybody thats taken that well at all) Its easy to talk but unless you've been there you have no idea. This is the result of a decision made by "love" at some point in the past. So excuse him if hes a little scared and not overly invested in LS's rendition of "doing the right thing"

 

 

Yeah he may still have to divorce this sucks and he may not get out of this one... but thats something he has to approach in a mannor that hes comfortable with. No knee jerk reactions here....we arent spending 1.39 on a granola bar here

[Mr_Confused]

I cannot thank you enough for the insightful and thought provoking comments.

 

Couple of comments.

1. My affair is not justified. I know i should have addressed my marital issues, accepted them, or left. There is no excusing my adulterous behavior. It has solved nothing and only complicated matters.

2. I am in IC but my participation is declining. I have seen two therapist but neither has helped in all honesty. I have read a lot and reflected endlessly on my actions and my marriage which likely contributed to the limited value. My wife declined my suggestion to attend IC to discuss her supposed issues with intimacy.

3. I am aware of the affair fog amd much of my reluctance to run after my seemingly great relationship with the OW is tempered by me recognizing it is not fair to compare my marriage to my affair.

 

Thanks again.

[stillafool]

ok.....

 

but

 

Why should she not have divorced?

 

Because he is the one who is unhappy and decided to have an affair. He is falling for his affair partner and no longer desires his wife. His wife is content.

[stillafool]

I think we have already established that money isnt everything...and that probably divorce is the best option. the OP clearly gets this....

 

But what I think many dont get is it really hurts to have the money you worked hard for stripped away. Either people dont get this or they are affraid to admit it. Yes his wife makes good money but she has become used to a lifestyle that exceeds her financial breadth because she was married to a guy that makes 3 times she makes. This could potentially (and to the OP...right or wrong... I hope this doesnt happen) lead to a massive support payment. This can be financially crippling; I see it everyday at work..and to add insult to injury this will be a support payment payable to a person who is certainly capable of supporting her self (she'll just have to give up a few luxuries but she alone will still be way ahead of the average household income....which aint 6 figures)

 

Then theres the assets which I assume he invested more in than her simply because he makes 3 times her income....half of this will just almost evaporate. If she makes 6 figures and he makes 3 times this... we are looking at at least a half million in income per annum. Do you know how much assets that will drive over the years? What are we looking at? a 3M dollar net worth? likely more?

 

No money isnt everything...but it is something and its understandable that hes scared. Have any of you had to pay out 10K in monthly support payments? and write six figure cheques to lawyers (depending on how proceedings go this can easily happen)....any of you ever forced to sell an asset (out of distress) and then write a cheque for half a mill and got nothing in return? (I dont know anybody thats taken that well at all) Its easy to talk but unless you've been there you have no idea. This is the result of a decision made by "love" at some point in the past. So excuse him if hes a little scared and not overly invested in LS's rendition of "doing the right thing"

 

 

Yeah he may still have to divorce this sucks and he may not get out of this one... but thats something he has to approach in a mannor that hes comfortable with. No knee jerk reactions here....we arent spending 1.39 on a granola bar here

 

It is still a choice he has to make: Keep his money and remain miserable or lose some of his money and find happiness. It's all a matter of which is more important to him.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

you will never admit that an affair is justified, like many others. It's always a decision.

 

Let's add to the pot that the OP discussed multiple homes. In almost all instances they have probably gone down in value (post 2008) and they can't afford a divorce for that reason too.

 

Add to that a spouse who refuses IC and frankly is happy to pretend nothing is wrong, even after "discovering the affair", which is besides the point as she did not consider sex important for 5+ years (forgetting that prior to "closing shop" she had not cared or was inveested for years).

 

I am getting madder and madder reading these responses and suggest to Mr_Confused to put the affair on hold only if your spouse agrees to IC and MC, or tell her you will continue as "status quo".

 

BTW OP, have you talked to a lawyer and discussed the options available?

[StoneCold]

Because he is the one who is unhappy and decided to have an affair. He is falling for his affair partner and no longer desires his wife. His wife is content.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasnt his wife the one that unilaterally decided to take his sexlife away with FULL KNOWLEDGE that this hurts him and makes him unhappy?????

 

So she gets a "pass" because she is content in hurting and rejecting him? :confused:

 

I dont follow that logic.

 

BSers its logic like this that just kills your argument

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I am against affairs and certainly am no proponent of them....

 

But to those who continue to trumpet no affair is right...... I will agree with you, if in this case you state the spouse should agree to a divorce, they split assets equitably and she does not ask for one penny of support.....

[frozensprouts]

again...we are only hearing HIS side of this... what is his wife's side? why did she stop wanting sex? it sounds like it never at the top of her list of priorities to sart with.. why did he expect that would change? His wife is getting blamed for not changing from what she always was into what he wanted? Is this fair?

it sounds to me like he went into this marriage with his eyes wide open knowing what her views on this subject were. Now he's using that as an excuse to cheat and painting her as "the bad guy"... it's not like she went from someone who wanted sex all the time to someone who never does. It sounds like she's remained pretty constant. ( I'm not saying he's running her down, but by stating "no sex in five years" of course that's going to make her look horrible and there will be some who will defend him without knowing the whole story)

 

If he isn't happy, then he should divorce his wife, or ask for an open marraige, where he can have his sexual needs met while still maintaining his lifestyle. You never know...if she is okay with that, maybe it's because she loves him and wants him to be happy getting sex somewhere else, but doesn't want to lose him as her husband- not because of greed, but because she loves him. we don't know, as she can't tell us he side, and he really can't either.

 

( and i still think hte picture he's painting of his wife is very one sided- when i read stories like this i always wonder what the other side is.)

[frozensprouts]

I am against affairs and certainly am no proponent of them....

 

But to those who continue to trumpet no affair is right...... I will agree with you, if in this case you state the spouse should agree to a divorce, they split assets equitably and she does not ask for one penny of support.....

 

well, if one agree that lack of sex is a justfiable reason for an affair, you dstart off on a pretty slippery slope my friend. what about other reasons? how come they wouldn't also justify an affair? where would you draw the line?

[Mr_Confused]

Again....no justification for my affair.

 

Regarding this being a two sided story...i tried to stick to facts here not my opinion or feelings....at least to the extent i have. I want reiterate while many here, inderstandably bs's, blame me........my wife doesnt.

 

Now to be transparent she knows about the sex.....not my feelings towards my ow.

 

One oddity worth noting which i think is rare she never asked how many times i had sex with the ow, how often, duration of the relationship, etc..

[Toodamnpragmatic]

well, if one agree that lack of sex is a justfiable reason for an affair, you dstart off on a pretty slippery slope my friend. what about other reasons? how come they wouldn't also justify an affair? where would you draw the line?

 

Well before 5 YEARS AND NO SEX.....

 

Mr_Confused has been very honest in his appraisal of the situation (as we know it). Nothing he has said for a second seems like a distortion imo.

 

Of course some of you just refuse to understand and heap the blame on him. You of all people FS should understand or have empathy for what he put up with...... 5 FRIGGIN YEARS OF NO SEX!!!!!!!!!! And he somehow still states that he is wrong. I want to to cry (but I'm a man's man:p;)) thinking what he has gone through.......

[Mr_Confused]

Dont get me wrong. What she did was wrong. There is no two ways about it and she would tell you the same. I ha e every right to be pissed, frustrated and angry.

 

I say i am wrong to have an affair because it's bad from a character standpoint. I showed a lack of integrity....my words arent supported by my actions. Granted i told her in no uncertain terms i wld not live my life without sex i still think the honorable thing to was to either leave or accept my fate.

 

The good news is we dnt debate who is at fault. We accept responsibility for our actions and the consequences. All i care about now is what i do on a go forward basis given where we are amd what we have learned along the way. Debating history or assessing blame seems useless in terms of hiding happiness in the future.

 

I told her the same......said she cld blame me for everything if it helps. I dnt see it as relevant.

[frozensprouts]

Well before 5 YEARS AND NO SEX.....

 

Mr_Confused has been very honest in his appraisal of the situation (as we know it). Nothing he has said for a second seems like a distortion imo.

 

Of course some of you just refuse to understand and heap the blame on him. You of all people FS should understand or have empathy for what he put up with...... 5 FRIGGIN YEARS OF NO SEX!!!!!!!!!! And he somehow still states that he is wrong. I want to to cry (but I'm a man's man:p;)) thinking what he has gone through.......

 

 

 

as he should blame himself...not for the "no sex", but for what he chose to do about it.

 

 

 

i know you don't agree, and i can understand that, but his reasoning is no different than anyone else who cheats...he just slapped a different name on it... he has alternatives ( talk to her about an open marriage, separate and work out the terms of the divorce, etc.), but he chose cheating, and that's on him, not her ( from what i understand, it's not as if she wasn't willing to have sex with him it's just that it wasn't under the terms he wanted- he always initiated, she didn't- or do i misunderstand that?) This doesn't mean i don't understand his feelings, etc., but i just can't agree with his course of action. If his cheating was just because there was no sex for five years, and all he wanted was sex, then he could have gone and had a one night stand, seen a prostitute, etc. ( I don't like those either:laugh:)

 

 

It also sounds as if she has no idea he developed feelings for the other woman. It sounds like his wife may forgive his cheating as she thought it was just for sex. she needs to know he developed feelings for the other woman, as this may affect the decision making process. if she really truly doesn't love or care for him anymore, and she finds out he has feelings for someone else, maybe she'll agree to a divorce with terms that are good for both of them, and most importantly, for their daughter.

[stillafool]

you will never admit that an affair is justified, like many others. It's always a decision.

 

I completely understand why he went out and had an affair. Some people need sex and it isn't fair for a spouse to withhold it if they are physically capable of providing it. My point is this: He is not longer attracted to his wife, doesn't even want sex from her at this point even if she gives it, he has someone else on the side who gives it up the way he likes it, so what is his choice. Does he want to stay in a marriage with a woman he doesn't want for the rest of his life and they agree he can keep his side thing or does he want to give up some of his possessions and have a chance at real happiness? What do you suggest he do?

[stillafool]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasnt his wife the one that unilaterally decided to take his sexlife away with FULL KNOWLEDGE that this hurts him and makes him unhappy?????

 

So she gets a "pass" because she is content in hurting and rejecting him? :confused:

 

I dont follow that logic.

 

BSers its logic like this that just kills your argument

 

What pass???? I'm saying he should file because he said his wife is content the way things are, even him seeing the OW. She seems to be staying for the money also. He is the one who is unhappy in this situation so why shouldn't he free himself from her and file for divorce? I'm certainly not saying his wife is correct in treating him this way.

[stillafool]

It also sounds as if she has no idea he developed feelings for the other woman. It sounds like his wife may forgive his cheating as she thought it was just for sex. she needs to know he developed feelings for the other woman, as this may affect the decision making process. if she really truly doesn't love or care for him anymore, and she finds out he has feelings for someone else, maybe she'll agree to a divorce with terms that are good for both of them, and most importantly, for their daughter.

 

This is an excellent point. I can't remember if he said he told his wife he has developed feelings for the OW. You are right, if his wife knows how he feels about the OW she may be glad to let him go.

[stillafool]

Now to be transparent she knows about the sex.....not my feelings towards my ow.

 

One oddity worth noting which i think is rare she never asked how many times i had sex with the ow, how often, duration of the relationship, etc..

 

^^^^^^^^^

Here's my answer. Okay, perhaps you need to tell your wife about the feelings you have toward the OW. I think it is great that the two of you can talk about this without blaming each other. That is so rare. If your wife is this rational maybe you could talk about a fair settlement where she doesn't get to keep all your properties but what you both consider fair. I think personally if she makes six figures a year she doesn't need spousal support but I'm sure you wouldn't mind paying for your child.

[findingnemo]

Pretty obvious the wife knew exactly what she was doing. They talked about it and she refused. Even now she refuses IC. She just does not want to lose her lifestyle and is biding her time. Why not? She has been for 5 YEARS (have to capitalize it)!!!!!

 

And as a male (and some females), the idea of losing a big chunk in divorce does play a role.

 

FN,why do you, without knowing them do you jump to the conclusion that she worked for this lifestyle? Yes she too earns a very good living, but already we have been told that she is worried about the financial side.

 

I will say what few people will say. HER BEHAVIOUR OVER 5 YEARS WAS DISGUSTING.

 

Below is a prior post from Mr. Confused and highlighted what I consider important notes:

 

"Regarding our intimacy problems, we have long struggled with sex and intimacy. While we are going on 5 years absent of any sex, we struggled for many years prior to this. We have discussed it in great detail. I have explained on numerous instances how it is negatively impacting me and I am unable to live my life this way. Sex is a big issue as I am you basic active, athletic, and healthy male. A much BIGGER issue is simply not having a sense of being connected to someone in a romantic sense. It is really a terrible thing to love someone and not share such things. So, as time passes, my feelings have changed.

 

My affair was pretty calculated to the extent I was not swept of my feet in bliss. I recognized my options were to exist sexless OR forfeit half of our assets and full-time parental status and pursue a divorce. My mistake was thinking I could have a physical relationship outside my marriage and keep everything else whole and all wuld be ok. That has failed miserably and I do now have VERY strong feelings for my OW. I also recognize my affair is not the real world, so while I am optimistic about what we "could be" - I also know the grass isn't always greener and only time would tell. As such, I don't think I should evaluate my decision to leave or stay on anything beyond the quality of the marriage itself.

 

Regarding $, she has a successful career and earns a 6 figure income. I do make about 3x what she does. As a result she is accustomed to multiple homes, luxury cars, maids, lawn service, etc. etc. - basically a very comfortable and low stress lifestyle.

 

Upon discovery of the affair and discussing the possibility of divorce, $ was a concern that she raised all too quickly. She was concerned about what her standard of living would be if we went that path. This is why I question her motives in trying to "fix" our marriage. I saw no interest in fixing anything until she found out I was involved with someone else and her lifestyle was in jeopardy. Even if it is true, I don't desire her that was any longer. I do find myself confused and have the all too common sentiment of "I love her but I'm not in love with her". I thought if she discovered the affair - she might indicate it hurt tremendously that the man she loved was intimate with another woman, but that did not happen.

 

My reluctance to leave is fear. Fear of being wrong. Additionally it won't be cheap. While we are well off, it will change things dramatically. Our lives will change and our ability to save will be severely compromised. I worry for my daughter. How will she react? What will it mean to our relationship? I'm sure it looks straight forward from the outside, but it scares the hell out of me."

 

I assume she worked for it the same way the law does. Regardless of the fact that she earns less than her H, she contributed to running the home etc. Their assets belong to both of them equally. That is why I think she fears a D. She'd lose her family and lifestyle. It's a legitimate fear.

 

About the 5 years of no sex, I'm of the same mind as you.

[findingnemo]

again...we are only hearing HIS side of this... what is his wife's side? why did she stop wanting sex? it sounds like it never at the top of her list of priorities to sart with.. why did he expect that would change? His wife is getting blamed for not changing from what she always was into what he wanted? Is this fair?

it sounds to me like he went into this marriage with his eyes wide open knowing what her views on this subject were. Now he's using that as an excuse to cheat and painting her as "the bad guy"... it's not like she went from someone who wanted sex all the time to someone who never does. It sounds like she's remained pretty constant. ( I'm not saying he's running her down, but by stating "no sex in five years" of course that's going to make her look horrible and there will be some who will defend him without knowing the whole story)

 

If he isn't happy, then he should divorce his wife, or ask for an open marraige, where he can have his sexual needs met while still maintaining his lifestyle. You never know...if she is okay with that, maybe it's because she loves him and wants him to be happy getting sex somewhere else, but doesn't want to lose him as her husband- not because of greed, but because she loves him. we don't know, as she can't tell us he side, and he really can't either.

 

( and i still think hte picture he's painting of his wife is very one sided- when i read stories like this i always wonder what the other side is.)

 

^^^This!!! The solution doesn't have to be divorce. It could be a compromise, an open M. I personally understand and agree with not wanting to split one's assets. Yes, money isn't everything but...why lose what you've worked for just like that?

 

Mr. Confused, apart from no sex how well do you and your W get along? In other words, do you like her personality? Although you can't live without sex, I'm not sure the lack of it is a reason to change your life drastically. As for falling for the OW, anyone would fall for the first person they have good sex with after going without for 5 years. It's an illusion. Is that illusion worth the financial and emotional upheaval that Ds leave in their wake?

[Breezy Trousers]

^^^This!!! The solution doesn't have to be divorce. It could be a compromise, an open M. I personally understand and agree with not wanting to split one's assets. Yes, money isn't everything but...why lose what you've worked for just like that?

 

Mr. Confused, apart from no sex how well do you and your W get along? In other words, do you like her personality? Although you can't live without sex, I'm not sure the lack of it is a reason to change your life drastically. As for falling for the OW, anyone would fall for the first person they have good sex with after going without for 5 years. It's an illusion. Is that illusion worth the financial and emotional upheaval that Ds leave in their wake?

 

Nemo makes an excellent point worth considering. I'm just not sure how realistic it is. I tend to think open marriages are like communism -- good in theory but not so much in application.

 

Still --

 

This American Life has a podcast on infidelity (or is it mongamy? ha!). They profiled a politician who had been married with kids for decades. He also had a relationship with another woman for over two decades, which his wife & family not only accepted but supported. It was an unconventional arrangement, to be sure, but it allowed this man to get his needs met without dismantling a family which was happy in nearly all respects.

 

Otherwise, my opinion is back with my original post: End the affair or get a divorce.

Edited November 17, 2011 by Breezy Trousers