Cheater looking for a solution

[Mr_Confused]

Open marriage is not an option......for me. I want one woman to love...not pieces from multiple women. I can be faithful easily. Its not about sex. Its about being loved. Sex, the kind i want most, is an expression of love. Sex is not satisfying if only a physical outlet. Im not looking for a body to use for masturbation. I want to love and be loved and i will find it.

[frozensprouts]

Open marriage is not an option......for me. I want one woman to love...not pieces from multiple women. I can be faithful easily. Its not about sex. Its about being loved. Sex, the kind i want most, is an expression of love. Sex is not satisfying if only a physical outlet. Im not looking for a body to use for masturbation. I want to love and be loved and i will find it.

 

 

then you have two options...

 

(a) stay with your wife and the two of you work together to do what it takes to find that spark again and you have that loving life with her

 

(b) separate and divorce and you find it with someone else

 

if you do anything else, won't you just be doing what you say you don't want to do?

 

( btw, have you told your wife what you just wrote there? you say she knows you want more sex, but does she know why? trust me, for some women, there is not an implicit understanding that, for a man, sex equates with love...does your wife know that for you it does?)

[Breezy Trousers]

Open marriage is not an option......for me. I want one woman to love...not pieces from multiple women. I can be faithful easily. Its not about sex. Its about being loved. Sex, the kind i want most, is an expression of love. Sex is not satisfying if only a physical outlet. Im not looking for a body to use for masturbation. I want to love and be loved and i will find it.

 

Understood.

 

I've only opened a few cheating MM threads during my recent revisit here. Even so, they are getting boring very fast. Guess I'll have to leave LS again ... I think this is the last cheating MM thread I'll bother with, anyway .... Because, in the end, it always comes down to the money/security, doesn't it?

 

I mean, if you really want love, who is stopping you?

 

In truth, you value something else a bit more.

 

So this is no longer confusing to me.

 

Once you get your actions in alignment with what you profess to value, you won't be confused, either.

 

I would agree with Frozen, but it seems to me you've already made your decision. You've focused on your wife's shortcomings yet offer very little information about the OW. Sounds to me like you're protecting your OW so she can wear the halo. This is typical of love fog... ... but okay .... There's your decision. Love requires risk. You may regret this in five years (after love fog wears off and the work of a real relationship is in full swing) or thrive. We can't promise you anything here.

Edited November 17, 2011 by Breezy Trousers

[Mr_Confused]

I wasnt protecting my ow. I have not dodged any questions about her. I have purposefully not provided much about her because i dnt think my marriage should be evaluated relative to my affair. I believe i posted that earlier.

 

Money is important. Its not what makes me happy....absence of it makes things less easy. My ow for whatever it is worth makes considerably more than my wife. She is two years divorced, beautiful, and a mother of two. She is a hard working, religious (irony...yes), and devoted loving mother. Challenge her character if you wish...i have known this woman much longer than our affair and i know who she is and the internal conflict our affair causes. There is no reluctance to discuss her. Again, i just think my decision to stay or leave my marriage shld be based solely on the quality of my marriage not how green i view other pastures.

 

My wife is gorgeous. She has a body, face, and smile that makes boys act a fool. She is arguabley more attractive than my ow. Unfortunatly there is more needed than her beauty to make our marriage successful.

 

To previous poster. I have consulted a lawyer. Not in great detail but to confirm my understand of state divorce laws and ezpected child support payments as well as fair and equitable division of assets.

 

I really think the marriage will end, irrespective of the ow and if we find happiness together or not. I just dont know if it is best for my child to wait four years until ahe leaves for college or divorce prior to then so she doesnt become an adult thinking my marriage is normal.

 

I will survive either way. I will not go broke. I will find love - i believe it is readily available in this world. I do t believe in soul mates. I believe two people content with eaxh others appearance, emotionally ams sexually compatible, with a commitment and interest in working through difficulties can find their way through just about anything. Simple enough......but absent in my marriage....no sex, inability to work thru isssues (small or big) and loss of love over long periods of difficulty.

 

Maybe i am crazy......

[Lemon Drop]

Dear Mr. Confused,

 

Why don't you think it's OK to stand up for something you believe in? When you married, was it your expectation that you would go for 5 years without sex and for X amount of years without love? Did you include the word LOVE in your marriage vows? Is it crazy to expect to love and be loved as passionate and vibrant humans in our short lives here?

 

Remember the good old days when there was no such thing as divorce and people with huge balls like Henry XIII had to lop off people's heads and invent an entire new religion so he could have love? You are not describing yourself as someone who gets his head turned and wanders off to find sexual thrills. You are describing a man who is starving for the basic wish to love and be loved. Are you going to wait until you are of the age where you can no longer function before you man up and tell your wife she has left you starving on the side of the road and you will now go and feast at another table?

 

So your beautiful OW is also capable of sustaining a healthy household income? You should have your bags packs by this afternoon. File for divorce, sell the stuff, take flowers to your OW and start living.

 

Sheesh, I think they are putting something in the water to keep down the testosterone so we're not all out in the streets killing each other. Maybe your trouble is you need a woman to tell you what to do. OK, it just happened. Go forth and live, stop the insanity. Your wife does not deserve a choice in this matter any longer. She doesn't care if you die a slow, loveless death.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I do understand your consternation, concerns and issues you face. Your wife has said she does not want to work on herself and that is the sad truth. IC is crucial, and MC means absolutely nothing if she has no interest in looking at herself first.

 

Over and over I will say it 5 YEARS NO SEX!!! That is unconscionable. There was a trigger that resulted in this and frankly there may be no hope. Yes there is great resentment on your side too and that is where MC will help (as you've already done IC). What good is MC, when you will go in and say this.....

 

"We've had our issues, but regardless of what they were, I tried to be a good husband, provider, father. We do get along well and don't fight a lot. We discussed sex many many times and finally 5 years ago we stopped having sex and my wife did not give a damn."

 

Maybe your wife will unload on you and is waiting for a third party to voice the trigger that resulted in this sexless union. Could be 5 years ago you argued over your daughter's schedule and she never forgave you, or she can't stand asking you to put the toilet seat down or the pee on the rim, or she found porn on the computer that triggered past abuse as a child. You don't know and it could be something so inane that you will be left shaking your head, but your wife decided that was the breaking point.

 

So as I've said. Get your ducks in a row and have a serious talk with a lawyer, agree to MC with the caveat that if the counselor suggests IC, she goes through with it and get off your ass and start the process.

 

And yes there was no need to bring the OW in to the thread. She's there, you have developed feelings and let the chips fall where they may.

Edited November 17, 2011 by Toodamnpragmatic

[stillafool]

My wife is gorgeous. She has a body, face, and smile that makes boys act a fool. She is arguabley more attractive than my ow. Unfortunatly there is more needed than her beauty to make our marriage successful.

 

 

 

Since you don't want to leave the marriage and lose half of your possessions, your wife seems content in your marriage as it stands, you have another woman on the side who you care about, and you are no longer interested in sex with youir wife; let me ask you: Would you be okay if your wife had someone else on the side also and you continue staying married and holding on to your possessions?

[Mr_Confused]

My wife can do as she pleases.

 

My perspective, anything thing short of a monogamous healthy relationship is just another coping mechanism versus solving the problem.

 

One weird thing....I'd feel better in many respects to discover my wife was having an affair. At least then the world would make sense to me.

[frozensprouts]

"We've had our issues, but regardless of what they were, I tried to be a good husband, provider, father. We do get along well and don't fight a lot. We discussed sex many many times and finally 5 years ago we stopped having sex and my wife did not give a damn."

 

Maybe your wife will unload on you and is waiting for a third party to voice the trigger that resulted in this sexless union. Could be 5 years ago you argued over your daughter's schedule and she never forgave you, or she can't stand asking you to put the toilet seat down or the pee on the rim, or she found porn on the computer that triggered past abuse as a child. You don't know and it could be something so inane that you will be left shaking your head, but your wife decided that was the breaking point.

 

So as I've said. Get your ducks in a row and have a serious talk with a lawyer, agree to MC with the caveat that if the counselor suggests IC, she goes through with it and get off your ass and start the process.

 

.

 

for once, i agree with you ( a red letter day, eh?)

 

there is probably a whole lot more going on here than meets the eye...who knows what may have been her "trigger point"...what may seem insignifigant to you may have been pretty big to her, but unless the two of you talk ( hopefully with a counselor who can be an objective third party)you will never know. Maybe something happened in her past that you don't know about- she may have been abused or assaulted ...that happens sometimes- but you push it down and try to forget and live your life, but it can really colour a woman's view of why men want sex...they can see it as something a man wants , irregardless of how they feel about it- they see it as a physical act with little love or emotion attached to it...it's horrible to feel; that way, and it's not the guy's fault, but it can happen.

 

 

about the post about henry the 8th...yeah, what a charmer...i think perhaps one should consider what he did to his first, second, fourth, fifth, wives...the guy was a jerk- he got rid of his wives because he wanted a "legitimate heir and spares", not because of love and that he couldn't divorce ( the guy got around quite a bit, married or not- he had four of his marraiges annuled, treated actherine of aragon and anne of cleves like crap, had anne bolelynn and catherine howard, who was, in her teens, beheaded- what a winner ! )

[Mr_Confused]

I know what she believes to be her issue.

 

My issue is less with her "problem(s)" or my THEN willingness to work as needed through resolution. My issue is that for years we struggled, then years we were sexless, during which time I clearly communicated the impact to ME.

 

Only upon recognizing and becoming aware of an affair, and it's potential to impact HER, does she have interest in resolving it. In fact, she reports it as resolved - just went away - no need for IC. Her proposal is to let bygones be bygones and rebuild from where we are.

 

I've spent YEARS unhappy, even with my affair, it's not real happiness. She discovers an affair, has spent a few months somewhat uncomfortable, and wants to just restore things as if all is well.

 

I can't get passed the selfishness of it all. I'm not sure I believe it either. It's easy to say anything necessary, actions take effort, and I've never seen them.

 

Now my feelings have faded, I'm boxed in with a child, friends, family, assets, etc. and she tries to dangle the intimacy carrot in front of me.

 

Feels like a low effort way to further scramble my head.

 

Think the previous poster is right - I'm being weak. Her actions say enough. I need to "man up", quit taking this crap, eliminate my wayward ways, guilt, inappropriate behavior, move on and pursue the happiness I (and anyone else) deserves.

 

BTW - this thread of commentary has been fabulous. I've been on other boards on this topic and gotten little constructive commentary. This has been a great balance of support, but more valuable - constructive comments challenging my assessments. Can't thank you enough. I've spent 1000's on therapists and gotten less.

[frozensprouts]

I know what she believes to be her issue.

 

My issue is less with her "problem(s)" or my THEN willingness to work as needed through resolution. My issue is that for years we struggled, then years we were sexless, during which time I clearly communicated the impact to ME.

 

Only upon recognizing and becoming aware of an affair, and it's potential to impact HER, does she have interest in resolving it. In fact, she reports it as resolved - just went away - no need for IC. Her proposal is to let bygones be bygones and rebuild from where we are.

 

I've spent YEARS unhappy, even with my affair, it's not real happiness. She discovers an affair, has spent a few months somewhat uncomfortable, and wants to just restore things as if all is well.

 

I can't get passed the selfishness of it all. I'm not sure I believe it either. It's easy to say anything necessary, actions take effort, and I've never seen them.

 

Now my feelings have faded, I'm boxed in with a child, friends, family, assets, etc. and she tries to dangle the intimacy carrot in front of me.

 

Feels like a low effort way to further scramble my head.

 

Think the previous poster is right - I'm being weak. Her actions say enough. I need to "man up", quit taking this crap, eliminate my wayward ways, guilt, inappropriate behavior, move on and pursue the happiness I (and anyone else) deserves.

 

BTW - this thread of commentary has been fabulous. I've been on other boards on this topic and gotten little constructive commentary. This has been a great balance of support, but more valuable - constructive comments challenging my assessments. Can't thank you enough. I've spent 1000's on therapists and gotten less.

 

the only one who has "boxed you in" here is YOU. you had sex with her, she got pregnant, and now you are lucky enough to have a wonderful daughter who loves you...she is not "boxing you in"...your friends and family are not "boxing you in", the dangling carrrot of intimacy is not "boxing you in"... YOU are boxing yourself in...you say you are not happy, yet you place the responsibility for this on your wife, your child, your friends, family, etc. ...according to you, they are "boxing you in" and keeping you from the happiness and love you say that you want.

 

and you say you clearly related to your wife what impact your sexless marriage was having on YOU...what about what effect it was having on HER... did you ask HER why SHE didn't want to have sex or intimacy, or did you just talk about YOU and YOUR needs... what about HER feelings and HER needs...the fact that you have absolutely no idea why she feels the way she does makes me wonder if you did even ask? ( using capitals for emphasis, just like you did in your post...no offence intended:))...what if the reason sex was not a big priority for her was because she had been abused in her past, what if you had done something that really hurt her, what if having sex was painful for her, etc.? would knowing that maybe give you a different perspective on her actions?( I am not saying that any of these are the cse, just putting them out there as possibilities)...did you even bother to ask her why she felt the way she did, or did you just talk about why you felt the way you did?

 

 

again, no offence inteneded here, but i think there has been more than enough selfishness to go around, on both your parts. stop trying to put the blame for your choices and your life situation on everybody else...it's not going to solve anything.

 

i am sorry if i sounded rude...i didn't mean to, but you really don't sound any different than any other person who cheats on their spouse...for all you'd like to believe you are somehow different, you are not. everyone who cheats will have different reasons and justifications, and many choose to blame their spouse for their actions and the eventual fallout. I still think that your wife does love you and she is scared of losing you ( not your money or security, etc.) .she's seems to be trying to be understanding about your affair, and she's willing to do what it will take to make you happy, even if that means allowing you to have a mistress...that is very sad, and even sadder is that you see that as "selfishness" on her part...but if you feel that she is forgiving you because she is selfish, then why not tell her that...see what her reaction is. you really do seem to be projecting your thoughts on to her, without really putting in any real effort to find out why her reactions are what they are...could even be that she's "shell shocked" by your revelations and is externally calm, but inside, she's hurt more than you will ever know....but i can only base my opinions on what you have posted here...i could be totally wrong...you really are asking the wrong people about why your wife is acting the way she does... you need to be asking HER)

[stillafool]

My wife can do as she pleases.

 

My perspective, anything thing short of a monogamous healthy relationship is just another coping mechanism versus solving the problem.

 

I agree but it seems from your posts that you do not want to divorce because of the financial loss and that's why I made that suggestion. I'm sure this has been on your mind a long time; so what in your heart do you feel you should do to make you happy?

 

One weird thing....I'd feel better in many respects to discover my wife was having an affair. At least then the world would make sense to me.

 

Why would that make sense to you?

[frozensprouts]

mr.confused...

i re-read your post i responded to and maybe i misunderstood what you were saying as was a bit harsh.

questions:

do you know why your wife didn't wnat sex?

did the two of you try to work together to come up with a solution that was satisfactory to both of you?

 

but i still stand by my opinions that she is not the only one being selfish here, and that you can't blame everyone else for your life situation ( "boxing you in")...if where you are is so horrid, then leave.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Open marriage is not an option......for me. I want one woman to love...not pieces from multiple women. I can be faithful easily. Its not about sex. Its about being loved. Sex, the kind i want most, is an expression of love. Sex is not satisfying if only a physical outlet. Im not looking for a body to use for masturbation. I want to love and be loved and i will find it.

 

I'm suspicious of you. Much here does not ring true. But when I read the above, my bs meter started making loud noises.

 

If the above is genuine - then why was your chosen response to your wife's "no sex" decision to have a long term affair?

 

Which, it's pertinent to remember, was "discovered" by your wife. You did not decide to bring it into the open. Evidently, that status quo of sexless marriage + secret affair was okay with you until you got busted.

 

Why was that fine, but open marriage OR divorce and a fulfilling relationship with someone else NOT fine? Completely contradicts the quoted above, anyway.

 

I'm frankly shocked by all the outraged support you've received here because of your wife's unilateral decision to have a non-sexual marriage and how terrible that has been for you, supposedly.

 

I agree that it would be terrible, and that she did a terrible thing to your marriage. It would be terrible for me if my husband decided that he was not having sex anymore.

 

But you've gone along with that for FIVE YEARS!!!!!

 

That's on YOU. It's been YOUR choice to be in such a marriage, and to neither do something about it within your marriage, nor end your miserable marriage. So no outraged support from me.

 

And what about this "other woman"? She seems to be a very mythical creature. You have "developed feelings" for her. Well, she is a human being. What does this affair mean in HER life? Do you owe her anything? Or does she feel like her body is used by you for masturbation, as you put it?

[Mr_Confused]

Frozen -

 

I am sure I sound like every other cheater. You sound like a BS.

 

No offense taken.

 

You aren't harsh, just a little presumptuous. You could ask rather than assume and perhaps we'd both learn something. I did talk to me wife, it was not about me it was about us. It can be difficult to extract information from my wife at time, but she would share some things and other things I did myself.

 

She told me what happened earlier in her life - where she was subjected to unwelcomed advances that culminated in unwanted sex. Little was offered in terms of things I could do differently. On a separate occasion she said she simply doesn't have a sex drive.

 

Personally, I withdrew form many interests that take my time away from her and our family. I tried to connect more on an emotional level. I tried to kiss more, touch more, cuddle more when sex was not the objective. Sexually I assured she always has one or more orgasms. I made an effort to spice things up -toys, oils, other things she said were of interest.

 

No efforts yielded long term results. This all culminated in a big blow up about 5 years ago. It was a this time I had a full melt down. No anger just sadness - crying like a pathetic child - telling her I just can't live this way, I can't feel so disconnected to a woman I love, I can't live feeling undesired. More promises were made, nothing happened, and form that time until now I have withdrawn sexually and emotionally and she has not once verbalized a concern either about me or her needs not being met.

 

I agree nobody is holding me captive....I am.

 

Many posters look at only a few elements, be it money, my child, sex, etc.. I wish I could isolate it to A THING. What paralyzes me is the factors I weigh, and the recognition that there is no "right" answer, it feels like chosing the least bad option......and this dialog helps boil that down for me.

 

Now - AGAIN - let me say again - my affair is not justified regardless of any of this. I consider myself objective - un-fogged - if you will. While I understand "fog" - I also understand betrayed spouses like to paint all infidelity with the same brush. My perspective is not that an affair is justified, never is - likewise staying married or calling it a fog is not always correct. Often the marriage is a fog and experiencing a happy relationship - albeit outside the marriage - is clarity of just how f'd up your marriage is.

 

In my case - I think I should leave - not for my OW but instead because my marriage sucks. At some point all the "whys" become less important - the net results remain - we are two people that lack the ability to communicate, resolve issues, work together in a constructive way to satisfy one another. Should I have had an affair - certainly not - I should have left long ago...selfishly. I didn't - and what is the result? My daughter has had two active and available parents, my daughter has matured to be better equipped ot comprehend a divorce, our worth has increased, and there has been little emotional fall-out from my affair to my wife. So - who has suffered? Best I can tell.....based on dialog with my wife - ME. I remain the only one troubled by it. Not typical based on my readings. She's not a devastated betrayed spouse - she said let's move on and three days later she was having fun in the with her friends on a girls trip to Mexico. She's never brought it up again.

 

Again, my side of the story, my perspective - but do recognize your experience, or anyone else's don't translate to the world. I can't summarize my marriage and all trials and tribulations in a series of chat board posts, but I can answer any questions as honestly and objectively as possible. I am here seeking advice and perspective from other's experiences. I will reap the most benefit from honesty and objectivity - I'm not here to win your acceptance or have anyone see me in a favorable light.

[Mr_Confused]

MME - 100% correct, I did not disclose my affair to my wife independently. She was told that someone suspected I was having an affair. Quite honestly I could have dodged it if I wanted - I am just so sick of the guilt and sneaking around I chose to disclose it. There was no evidence, I was just tired of the lifestyle. So to that extent, and you comment, no -I wasn't all happy go lucky in my sexless marriage with an OW to compliment it.

 

You reaction is common. In fact, I wish my wife reacted as strongly as strangers I meet in such forums. I would have been encouraged if she had said anything along the lines of "I am heart broken that the man I love was intimate with another woman".

 

She said she understood why I did it. She said she loves me. She said she was worried about what a divorce meant to her lifestyle. There may be more to it - but that is what she said. That was four months ago, we have not touched since that time and the affair has never been discussed since then. One other person told her they suspected I was in an affair - she told me - and her comment was "that would have been really embarrassing if I didn't already know".

 

Make of that what you will.

[Lemon Drop]

for once, i agree with you ( a red letter day, eh?)

 

about the post about henry the 8th...yeah, what a charmer...i think perhaps one should consider what he did to his first, second, fourth, fifth, wives...the guy was a jerk- he got rid of his wives because he wanted a "legitimate heir and spares", not because of love and that he couldn't divorce ( the guy got around quite a bit, married or not- he had four of his marraiges annuled, treated actherine of aragon and anne of cleves like crap, had anne bolelynn and catherine howard, who was, in her teens, beheaded- what a winner ! )

 

No kidding? Yes, I know all of this. My point was that if he wanted a change, he would not have to behead someone or invent a new religion to do it, they have this new thing now called divorce.

 

Why is everyone so worried about what his wife wants? Why put everyone through IC and MC? She doesn't want to go. So is he supposed to put his life in a mayonnaise jar (along with his nuts) and wait for her to tell him she wants to love him again? Some BS seem to forget there are reasons why WS wander, and yes, the BS is to blame. Before you impale and roast me, I've been the BS but never the WS, but let's just use our good brains. That horse is dead, everyone can stop beating it. Mr. Confused, you don't need anyone's permission, not even your wife's. Just do what will make YOU happy. A brain tumor could be around the corner and you will have wished you had lived. Trust me, I know this.

[frozensprouts]

No kidding? Yes, I know all of this. My point was that if he wanted a change, he would not have to behead someone or invent a new religion to do it, they have this new thing now called divorce.

 

Why is everyone so worried about what his wife wants? Why put everyone through IC and MC? She doesn't want to go. So is he supposed to put his life in a mayonnaise jar (along with his nuts) and wait for her to tell him she wants to love him again? Some BS seem to forget there are reasons why WS wander, and yes, the BS is to blame. Before you impale and roast me, I've been the BS but never the WS, but let's just use our good brains. That horse is dead, everyone can stop beating it. Mr. Confused, you don't need anyone's permission, not even your wife's. Just do what will make YOU happy. A brain tumor could be around the corner and you will have wished you had lived. Trust me, I know this.

 

I do agree with you about divroce. If someone isn't happy in their marraige, and they feel it really isn't going to work out, then divorce. get one situation resolved and then move on to find happiness with someone else or just on your own, which ever works for you.

 

but it is his decision to make, and he can't very well say that it is everyone else who is keeping him where he is...the only one who is keeping him there is himself.

[stillafool]

Mr. Confused I think you still love your wife very much. I think you had an affair hoping to get her attention and when you didn't get your wife's attention you just kept on with what was feeling good at the moment. I think you do want to have sex with your wife but you want her to want you. You are very hurt because she didn't seem to care enough about you to want to fight you over the affair and fight for you the way you feel a woman who loved her husband would. I don't think you want to really divorce but you see nothing you do is making your wife want you the way a woman really wants a man, not a paycheck.

 

Your wife's reaction is quite odd I must say. Are you sure, really sure she doesn't have someone else? I would amost bet she does but knows better than to tell you.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

and your story is eerily familiar to many of us who are in marriages that lack the spark (and at time teeter on sexless).

 

Your answer to FS, gives more details, but you said as much in post 5 or 6 (except for the crying like a baby:lmao:)..... I believe you and I have a pretty good bs detector when it comes to LS:p:laugh:.

 

I only say give it one more chance as at least your wife agreed to MC, and maybe, just maybe something will click. Doesn't hurt imo.

 

Your wife is looking at it cold and calculating. She just is worried as to how she'll look and the financial hit she'll take. You've said much about your affair, marriage...... Should I ask how many houses, cottages, what cars you own, the camps and trips you take and the affect a divorce would have (being sarcastic)????

 

Point is I know a lot of men in similar situations, are rooting for you and hoping for your happiness.

[frozensprouts]

mrconfused...

 

this may not change how you feel, but it may help you to understand your wife's atitudes re:sex.

 

When I was very young (14) i was a really shy, nerdy kid ( still am shy and nerdy, but no longer a kid:laugh:). I had zero self esteem, and when an older guy started showing an interest in me, I was very surprised. We started going out, and things were nice, at first, but pretty soon he became abusive and, to make a long story short, i ended up comming to the conclusion that guys only want sex for their own selves, and if the woman doesn't want to, that is irrelevant. If the woman doesn't want it, too bad, the guy has a right to it , and doesn't have to take "no" for an answer ( I can't believe i ever thought that way) For a long time, that's what i thought. I didn't equate sex with love, but more with "release" for the guy. I was very wrong. I got married and after a while my husband and i started having issues similar to the ones you and your wife are having. He wanted sex a lot, and it just made me feel really used and really bad, because i thought he was just wanting it for selfish reasons and not because it was an expression of love. I thought he didn't care, when in fact, he did.

 

that was one of the issues we adressed in counseling. It was very hard to talk about that time in my life...I didn't want to think about it ( I'd spent 10 years trying to hide from that guy, and thought i had finally put it behind me)...i just wanted to forget it ever happened. talking about it was so hard, but it was worth it...my husband understood why i felt the way i did, i understood that he didn't want sex just for it's own sake ( well, he probably partly did want it for it's own sake:laugh:) but because he loves me and that is how most men show their emotions to the person they love.

 

now what happened to me may not be what happened to your wife, but it does sound as if she was , at some point, made to have sex when she did not want to. if you put yourself in her place, how would that make you view sex? For some women, it can be very traumatic...you can have painful flashbacks and sex becomes equated with emotional pain... this is not the fault of the spouse, but it can be a reality. If you were in her shoes, and sex caused a lot of emotional pain each time you had it, wouldn't that make you kind of ambivalent about it? Aagain, that would not be your fault, but maybe that is what has happened to your wife. it could be that your wife was very taumatized and didn't wnat to deal with it. Maybe she pushed it way down deep, and hoped she was past it...but maybe she is not. Dragging that back up again can be extremely painful, which may be part of why she isn't inetersted in counseling...I don't know.

( maybe i'm way off here, again, i am only repsonding to what you post... do think this may be the case with your wife, or is something else going on? furthermore, does it matter to you anymore? )

[stillafool]

mrconfused...

 

this may not change how you feel, but it may help you to understand your wife's atitudes re:sex.

 

When I was very young (14) i was a really shy, nerdy kid ( still am shy and nerdy, but no longer a kid:laugh:). I had zero self esteem, and when an older guy started showing an interest in me, I was very surprised. We started going out, and things were nice, at first, but pretty soon he became abusive and, to make a long story short, i ended up comming to the conclusion that guys only want sex for their own selves, and if the woman doesn't want to, that is irrelevant. If the woman doesn't want it, too bad, the guy has a right to it , and doesn't have to take "no" for an answer ( I can't believe i ever thought that way) For a long time, that's what i thought. I didn't equate sex with love, but more with "release" for the guy. I was very wrong. I got married and after a while my husband and i started having issues similar to the ones you and your wife are having. He wanted sex a lot, and it just made me feel really used and really bad, because i thought he was just wanting it for selfish reasons and not because it was an expression of love. I thought he didn't care, when in fact, he did.

 

that was one of the issues we adressed in counseling. It was very hard to talk about that time in my life...I didn't want to think about it ( I'd spent 10 years trying to hide from that guy, and thought i had finally put it behind me)...i just wanted to forget it ever happened. talking about it was so hard, but it was worth it...my husband understood why i felt the way i did, i understood that he didn't want sex just for it's own sake ( well, he probably partly did want it for it's own sake:laugh:) but because he loves me and that is how most men show their emotions to the person they love.

 

now what happened to me may not be what happened to your wife, but it does sound as if she was , at some point, made to have sex when she did not want to. if you put yourself in her place, how would that make you view sex? For some women, it can be very traumatic...you can have painful flashbacks and sex becomes equated with emotional pain... this is not the fault of the spouse, but it can be a reality. If you were in her shoes, and sex caused a lot of emotional pain each time you had it, wouldn't that make you kind of ambivalent about it? Aagain, that would not be your fault, but maybe that is what has happened to your wife. it could be that your wife was very taumatized and didn't wnat to deal with it. Maybe she pushed it way down deep, and hoped she was past it...but maybe she is not. Dragging that back up again can be extremely painful, which may be part of why she isn't inetersted in counseling...I don't know.

( maybe i'm way off here, again, i am only repsonding to what you post... do think this may be the case with your wife, or is something else going on? furthermore, does it matter to you anymore? )

 

 

I know exactly what you're talking about Frozen and that could be part of it; but still when she found out he was having an affair it didn't seem to affect her the way it would a woman in love. You may feel your man is selfish when it comes to sex but still you don't want another woman putting her hands on him. I find that behavior odd when a woman loves her husband.

[findingnemo]

 

I agree but it seems from your posts that you do not want to divorce because of the financial loss and that's why I made that suggestion. I'm sure this has been on your mind a long time; so what in your heart do you feel you should do to make you happy?

 

[b]Yep, I also sensed that financial loss was important but it would seem it's not so. The alternative is to get a divorce and move on to newer and better loves in the future. [/b]

 

Why would that make sense to you?

 

Now I'm the one who is confused. But...in fairness, this is a confusing situation for you, Mr. Confused. Just take it one day at a time and make your decision when you are ready.

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

You reaction is common. In fact, I wish my wife reacted as strongly as strangers I meet in such forums. I would have been encouraged if she had said anything along the lines of "I am heart broken that the man I love was intimate with another woman".

 

 

I think you misread my reaction.

 

Sure, I dislike, intensely, the dishonestly & betrayal usually surrounding affairs.

 

My strong reaction to this tale, though, is triggered by your forging such a relationship with your wife. It took both of you to be married for five years without sex!

 

Also, by your refusing to divorce, open or to fix your marriage - while saying things like:

 

Open marriage is not an option......for me. I want one woman to love...not pieces from multiple women. I can be faithful easily. Its not about sex. Its about being loved. Sex, the kind i want most, is an expression of love. Sex is not satisfying if only a physical outlet. Im not looking for a body to use for masturbation. I want to love and be loved and i will find it.

 

What you've said, in essence, is that the relationships you've created (sexless marriage + extramarital affair) are working for you. You just don't want to admit it.

 

It sounds fine for you and your wife, but I still am concerned for the "OW," who has not been granted a personality or any features at all in your narrative.

 

I guess you just needed to post this story to get it off your chest.

[Mr_Confused]

I don't get offended. Why would I get offended by people I don't know or have a relationship with.....I've been honest. I never said money doesn't matter.

 

Does $ matter - hell yes it does. I don't work for fun - do you? I enjoy money. Is it what keep me there/married - no. My child is the one factor of the many that is the determining criteria thus far.

 

Did I "approve" a sexless marriage - nope - sorry - calling Bs on that - tollerance is not approval. It's acceptance - accepting that my full-time parental status and ability to preserve money were more important than leaving for find intimacy. Ask me personally that's a ****ty choice to force upon a spouse when you agreed to love and cherish them - so condemn me for not forsaking all others - fine - but remember to be fair and balanced. One wrong doesn't justify another - I get it.

 

Lastly - the OW. No I have never told her a lie. Not one and that's the honest to god truth. She knows every detail, every struggle, and exactly where we are. She has complete freedom to do whatever she wants having that knowledge. I would not want for one second her to be with me under any false pretenses.

 

This whole exchange has been great for me - really caused some reflection. I'm only left with one perspective - I should have left long ago. I did my diligence to find intimacy with my wife, she acknowledges that - I stayed to protect the remaining good peripheral aspects of our marriage and I should have packed my bags. I don't regret the value being there has had with my daughter but this marriage was dead long ago. I am a cheater, but I am also a human, and I never should have accepted a marriage absent of closeness, romantic love, and intimacy.

 

Live and learn. Hopefully someone like myself will read this and not repeat my mistakes.