Need some . GF issues

[pat666]

Hello everyone,

 

I am new to this forum and my reason is plain and simple: I need advice from someone who isn't looking to tell me what I want to hear, like a friend, about my issues with my girlfriend.

 

So here goes, I'm seriously thinking of leaving my girlfriend whom I still love.

 

We have been in a relationship for 2 1/2 years now. I am 29 and she is 32. I have a pretty successful career, though I'm not going to be rich by any means, and she has a good job. Alright to the point...

 

When we started going out, it was like being on a cloud, like everyone else I suppose. I would see my girlfriend get very upset at little issues but never towards me. She would constantly fight with her family and friends about complete nonsense that I would never even consider being an issue but hey, I figured she was raised this way and as long as it's not towards me, I'll simply be the supportive boyfriend about it. After only 4 months, I moved in with her. This meant that I gave up my old apartment, just about everything I had (fridge/stove/furniture) which I was ok with because I wasn't happy with the living conditions that I had at the time and I wanted to take a leap of faith. I found myself in a different city, further from my family and friends but with the girl who I thought to be the one.

 

(Oh, a little background about me: I haven't been with many girlfriends... I am the geek time that much rather stay in than go to a club. That being said, I do have many qualities that I'm sure women would love. )

 

Anyway, once I moved in, things were better than ever... BUT as you probably already figured out, I eventually became close to her to become "Family" which means that she was not holding back anymore when she was upset about something towards me. To be fair, I come with my own baggage and realize it. I can sometimes be unclean and I enjoy spending an hour or so on the computer (geek remember). Once the relationship had progressed, she could yell at me for things like: Forgetting a light on, forgetting my glass on the table, wanting to go on the computer. Again, to be fair, I take the time to be in her shoes and I do understand why she would be irritated but she explodes and will ignore me for days or say things like:"I should have known better than to count on you." You know, anything to hurt and get a reaction. I am a very happy person and I really don't get upset because I don't see anything good that can come out of it. For example, she forgot to put the parking on my car and my car rolled into the wall and the front bumper was all smashed... She was scared to tell me but when she did, I simply asked if she was ok and told her not to worry about it because nothing that I say can fix the bumper. She wasn't upset but she was in disbelief that I truly meant that because she would have tore me a new one if the roles were reversed.

 

Eventually, the verbal abuse took a tole on me and I sat her down and told her we needed to talk. I tried the communication route but she simply isn't willing to hear me out. If I tell her that I didn't appreciate her calling me names simply because I didn't wash my glass, she will respond along the lines of:"Ok I will never ask you to wash anything ever again." and give me a silent treatment. Oh and as long as I don't apologize to her, she will not speak to me, and this can go on for days if needed. I will always give in simply to get it over with and move along.

 

I've had many conversations with her within the past 2 1/2 years about her getting very upset at me for little details while she misses all the good things I do for her like taking her out on dates 2-3 times a week, driving her everywhere, making sure I always record her shows, always waking up for the dog in the morning so that she can sleep in etc... I mean, I have baggage but I am certainly trying to hold my own in this relationship. Everytime we go out, I pay for everything because I make a bigger salary and I never ask her to pay a thing nor use it against her in anyway... Well, even if I recount all the good things I do, it simply doesn't matter because one time I didn't want to go spend the night at her friend so obvious this makes me a very selfish person whom she can't count on. (sigh)

 

Over the past months, I've kinda given up a little. When she gets upset, I act like I couldn't care less and sometimes I'll even look to get even when she says mean things to get a reaction out of me. I'm simply turning into someone I don't want to be and it's obviously making things worst. We tend to get into an argument 2-3 times a week and to be honest, I have secretly been looking up apartments while we fight.

 

Even while writing this, it almost seems blatantly obvious that I should simply leave but it isn't that simple for the following reasons:

 

- I love her

- I want her to be happy and I don't think that many men would stay with her due to her emotional issues and I want to be the one guy who pushes through it and makes her dreams come true.

- I have absolutely nothing and tend to live pay by pay. I don't have anywhere to go really though I'm sure I can work this out.

- I really want to have kids and I know that she would love it too.

 

Now the negative:

 

- No matter how many times I tell her to stop the abuse, it starts over again.

- I've offered for us to get couples therapy and she wants nothing to do with it.

- I only have one life. As much as I want kids, do I really want to give up my life for it or wait for the right person?

- I have spend 2 years saying to myself that things will get better with time, maybe I should wake up?

- After a fight, I can't help to think that our relationship is on the rocks while she seems fine, as though it's no big deal to her.

- Because she would always turn me down for sex, I eventually gave up on it and now the tables have turned. We may do it 1-2 times a month and it feels more like a chore than pleasure. To the point where I fake (yes a guy).

 

 

Another factor that is making it so hard for me to leave is that we've made plans together for a better life. Being that I have a successful career, I've offered her to quit her job, which she was always angry about, and take up a job she would like. Since, she has started working in the educational sector and she loves her job but it isn't permanent. Her contract has been renewed a few times, which is fantastic but it's still not PERMANENT. Also, seeing as I own my car and she was leasing, I realized that she only used her car 3 times a month and was paying over 400$ for it. I told her to get rid of it as we always use mine and that extra money can go towards her debt. Though I had the best of intentions all along, if I leave, she will find herself a full rent, full utilities, a dog, no car and a temporary job. Being that she doesn't own a car, I know that she makes enough to pay for everything but what if her contract doesn't get renewed in a few months?.. You see, I do love her and want the best for her but I want to be happy too.

 

I realize that this is a very long post and I thank everyone who actually made it to the end. I think it's obvious by the time I've invested in this that I am quite troubled by the whole situation and I am looking for advice incase there is an angle that I'm not seeing.

 

Thanks.

Edited November 19, 2011 by pat666

[wilsonx]

You have written everything down. You have a pros list and a cons list. Some of your pros are actually cons.

 

There's no other angle man, keep looking for an apartment. It sucks but you said it yourself, you only have one life to live. Dont waste it on her. Her emotional problems are not yours.

 

Emotionally abused people emotionally abuse others, reread your story for the truth in this

 

Sounds like its time to take off your Captain Save a Hoe Cape and retire it and start focusing on you

[Downtown]

Pat, welcome to the LS forum. I agree with Wilson that your GF has serious emotional problems you cannot fix. The behaviors you describe -- verbal abuse, inability to trust, lack of impulse control, temper tantrums, icy withdrawal, controlling nature, emotional instability, and black-white thinking -- are classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), which my exW has. Your GF therefore may have mild to strong traits of BPD. Whether she has full-blown BPD is a determination that only a professional can make. Yet, even when the traits fall well short of that level, they can easily destroy a marriage and all LTRs.

I eventually became close to her to become "Family" which means that she was not holding back anymore when she was upset about something towards me.

If your GF is a BPDer, the problem wasn't that you had become "family" but, rather, that you had become close enough to pose a threat. High functioning BPDers typically relate very well to casual friends, business associates, and total strangers. None of those people pose a threat to the BPDer's two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. There is no close relationship to be abandoned and no intimacy to cause a feeling of engulfment. Heaven help them, however, if they ever decide to draw closer to become a close friend.

 

The only exception to this (that I know of) occurs during the courtship period, at which time you can be very close to a BPDer without triggering the two fears. You would not see the BPD traits for several months only because her infatuation over you convinced her that you were her perfect savior. That illusion held her two great fears -- abandonment and engulfment -- at bay. Within a few months, however, those fears return and it becomes extremely easy for you to trigger both of them.

she explodes and will ignore me for days ... the verbal abuse took a toll on me.

If your GF is a BPDer (i.e., has strong traits), she has carried an enormous amount of hurt and anger inside her since childhood. You therefore do not have to do anything to CREATE the anger. Instead, you only have to say or do some minor thing to TRIGGER the anger that is always there. This is why, when you glance at another woman for a half-second instead of a third of a second, your GF may flip from adoring you to hating you -- in only ten seconds. Because you never know for sure what small comment will set her off, you always feel like you are walking on eggshells. This is why the #1 best selling BPD book (targeted to the nonBPD partners) is called Stop Walking on Eggshells.

When we started going out, it was like being on a cloud, like everyone else I suppose.

No, not like everyone else. If your GF is a BPDer, your experience likely was far more passionate and intense than what most other guys experience. Moreover, in addition to the great sex, she would have idolized you for several months -- genuinely believing that you are the best thing to ever happen to her -- and perceiving of you as the knight riding in on a white horse. Indeed, this wonderful experience of being a "savior" is so intoxicating that -- like cocaine and heroine -- it quickly becomes very addictive, particularly to caregivers like you and me.

 

For a BPDer to be willing to live with you, you must play one of two roles -- both of which are designed to "validate" her false self image of being "the victim." If your GF is a BPDer, you played the first role -- being "the savior" -- during the infatuation period. As savior, you were validating her status as "the victim" because anyone in need of being saved must be a victim. But, of course, she did not really want to "be saved." Instead, she only wanted validation of her being "the victim." That is why, every time you pulled her from the raging seas, she would jump right back into water as soon as you turned around.

 

Yet, as soon as the infatuation evaporates, the only role that will validate that false self image is for you to become "the predator," i.e., the cause of every misfortune to befall her. You therefore will be blamed for everything that goes wrong. And she will be unwilling to have a calm, rational discussion about it. It is "true" because she feels it to be true.

I am a very happy person

Then you should be looking for a very happy woman to marry. It took me 15 years to learn that it is impossible to make an unhappy person happy. She has to do that for herself.

I tried the communication route but she simply isn't willing to hear me out.

With BPDers, it is nearly impossible to have a calm discussion over any sensitive matter (and nearly ever important issue is very sensitive to them). Trying to raise the issue when she is already in a calm mood achieves absolutely nothing. The problem is that, because she is full of anger that can be triggered in 10 seconds, you are always only 10 seconds away from a temper tantrum. There are not many important matters that can be resolved in 10 seconds.

I will always give in simply to get it over with and move along.

That "enabling" behavior is harming both of you. You are allowing her to behave like a spoiled four year old and GET AWAY WITH IT! You are preventing her from suffering the logical consequences of her own dysfunctional behavior. In that way, you are harming her by destroying her best opportunity -- perhaps her only opportunity -- for being forced to confront her issues and learning how to manage them. Hence, your actions are equivalent to those of a man who "enables" his wife's drinking problem to continue by always sweeping it under the rug.

 

To improve and heal, it is essential for a BPDer to step forward and start taking responsibility for her own actions. Absent that, substantial improvement is impossible. Moreover, there are excellent treatment programs available. It is rare, however, for a high functioning BPDer to give up her false self image of being "the victim" and take responsibility for her own actions. This is why therapist Shari Schreiber says you have a better chance flying to the moon strapped to a banana than ever seeing a BPDer stay in therapy long enough to make a real difference. I would be surprised if 1 in 100 BPDers have the self awareness and ego strength to accomplish that.

Even if I recount all the good things I do, it simply doesn't matter.

True, it doesn't matter. It can't matter. Because their emotional development is frozen at the level of a young child, BPDers have little ability to control their emotions. This results in such a flood of intense feelings that, like children, the BPDers are absolutely convinced that those feelings MUST be true. Unlike mature adults, they never learned how to intellectually challenge their feelings. And, given their inability to trust anyone, there is zero chance that you will be able to teach them. They simply won't believe you. Hence, it is impossible for you to build up a store of good will or appreciation on which to draw during the bad times. Trying to do so is no more productive than building a sandcastle beside the sea. All your efforts will be swept aside and submerged by the next tide of intense feeling sweeping through her mind.

 

Making a bad situation even worse, BPDers have great difficulty with "object constancy," i.e., with perceiving other people to have fairly constant personalities over time. This is why, in only ten seconds, a BPDer can flip from thinking you are an adorable knight on a white horse to thinking, instead, that you are Hitler incarnate. And she will then proceed to treat you as though you really are Hitler.

Over the past months, I've kinda given up a little. When she gets upset, I act like I couldn't care less ... I'm simply turning into someone I don't want to be.

No, you are turning into the person you used to be -- and have long forgotten because you been walking on eggshells (not being yourself) for two and a half years. After a couple of years, the nonBPD partners typically complain that they can't even remember who they were before it all started. Your independent behavior over recent months is a very VERY good sign. It means that, instead of continuing to behave like a doormat, you are strengthening your personal boundaries. More important, you are starting to enforce those boundaries by refusing to play her games.

 

As to your occasional flashes of anger and trying to get even, I normally would agree with you that it is a bad thing. For caregivers like us, however, anger is our friend. Usually, righteous anger is the only thing that allows us to tolerate the guilt and pain of walking away from a sick loved one -- an action that we are loath to do. I therefore urge you to embrace your anger and hold onto it for a year -- long enough to use it like a crutch to walk away to safety and to stay away from her. Then, a year from now, kick that crutch aside. Once it no longer serves a useful purpose (i.e., setting you free), the anger will only be corrosive and damaging.

It almost seems blatantly obvious that I should simply leave.

There is no "almost" about it. It is 100% blatantly obvious. And you know it. You have understood that at an intellectual level for several months. Now, all you are doing is waiting for your feelings (i.e., the "child" in you) to catch up with what your "adult" logic has known for quite a while. Closing that gap -- i.e., bringing your feelings into alignment with your new-found knowledge -- takes time. And, given what you wrote here yesterday, I would say the time has almost arrived.

It isn't that simple for the following reasons - I love her.

And you will love your children too when you eventually have some. But you won't want to marry any of them. The GF you are describing has the emotional development of a four year old. Like any young child, they can be wonderful to love -- but terrible to marry. Absent years of treatment, a BPDer can never trust you. Without the trust, there is no foundation on which to build a friendship, much less a marriage.

I want her to be happy and ... I want to be the one guy who pushes through it and makes her dreams come true.

So did I. I am a caregiver just like you. So, for 15 years, I spent a small fortune taking my BPDer exW to six different psychologists (and 2 MCs) -- all to no avail. It did not even make a dent in her unhappiness. The only person who can make your GF happy is HERSELF and, until she acquires the self awareness and ego strength necessary to do so, a team of psychologists cannot help her one bit.

I've offered for us to get couples therapy and she wants nothing to do with it.

If your GF has strong BPD traits, couples counseling likely would be a total waste of time and money. I've been there, done that. Her primary problem is not a lack of communication skills but, rather, the lack of impulse control, inability to trust, emotional instability, and her heavy reliance on primitive ego defenses (because she never learned the mature defenses that adults rely on). These issues reflect childhood damage to her emotional core and, as such, must be treated in individual counseling with a psychologist who has the set of skills needed to treat BPDers.

I really want to have kids and I know that she would love it too.

Yes, but do you want your kids to be raised by a mother who is verbally abusive and emotionally unstable? And do you want them to inherit genes that may carry a predisposition to having an emotional disorder? Granted, most children of BPDers do NOT develop strong BPD traits -- but they are at great risk of having another type of mental disorder. My exW's five children, for example, are all high functioning like their mother. Two of them have panic disorder and one of those two has mild traits of BPD. The other three occasionally suffer from depression or other mood disorders (i.e., not BPD).

I have spend 2 years saying to myself that things will get better with time, maybe I should wake up?

Yes, time to wake up. Typically, things will only get worse once you are married. As the years go by, a BPDer usually becomes increasingly resentful of your failure to make her happy. (Remember, she initially believed you were the white knight coming to her rescue.) It therefore is common for BPDers to abandon the marriage after about 12 to 15 years, blaming every misfortune on the spouse. And the divorce typically is very very nasty because, due to their distorted perceptions, BPDers tend to be very vindictive when ending any close relationship.

After a fight, I can't help to think that our relationship is on the rocks while she seems fine, as though it's no big deal to her.

Like I said, BPDers are very reactive to whatever intense feelings they are experiencing moment to moment. Those feelings push aside and replace the feelings they had an hour earlier. They become the BPDer's new reality. Like your GF, my exW could be in a hateful rage for two hours and then -- after her mood flipped 180 degrees in ten seconds -- she would be ready to cuddle or jump into bed with me. In contrast, I was standing there shell-shocked after witnessing the outpouring of venom and hatred. It would be several days before I was ready to make love to her. Because my way of thinking was so foreign to her, she was convinced that I was "unforgiving" and "holding a grudge" to punish her.

 

I understand her viewpoint so well because, when I was a young child, I felt exactly the same way. I noticed that adults would "hold grudges," being unable to let go of anger or "forgive" the way that we kids were doing so effortlessly. It was common for us kids to be at each others' throats one minute and then suddenly be best of friends the next minute. What I did not understand -- and what BPDers cannot see -- is that I was doing black-white thinking 24/7 all the way through my childhood. That is, I categorized everyone (including myself) as "all good" or "all bad" and -- just like a BPDer -- I would recategorize them from one polar extreme to the other, in ten seconds, based solely on a minor action or comment.

 

In contrast, mature adults can easily tolerate having strong mixed feelings about everyone. They therefore are very comfortable with the notion that "Jerry is a basically good man who just said a very bad thing." Instead of thinking "Jerry is all bad," we mature folks think "Jerry is having a bad day" or "Jerry has an issue." We are able to do this -- the current theory says -- because we were able to integrate the good and bad aspects of our personalities in childhood. Because we have a strong, integrated sense of who we are, we are very tolerant of ambiguities and conflicting thoughts occurring in our minds. Another reason is that we are able to perceive object constancy, as I noted above.

Another factor that is making it so hard for me to leave is that we've made plans together for a better life.

As you know all too well by now, reaching compromises and "making plans" with a BPDer is pointless. It is like signing a legal contract she neglects to sign. Like children, BPDers typically refuse to be bound by any agreements or plans they have made. As soon as her feelings change -- and they WILL change -- she will be convinced that the plans or agreement is null and void because you FORCED her into doing it. How did you accomplish such a trick? Her explanation will be whatever pops into her mind at that instant. If you somehow manage to shoot it down, she will immediately replace it -- without batting an eye -- with another explanation that is equally ludicrous. And she likely will believe it. Remember, her strong feelings imply it MUST be true.

 

My exW, for example, spent $6,000 on several sewing machines and another $5,000 on fabric. In 15 years, she sewed one dress, one vest, and a cat collar. When I asked her why she kept buying new sewing machines that she wouldn't use, she replied that they were all inadequate for the task and it was my fault. She had been choosing inferior machines, she explained, because she was so fearful of my reaction if she had bought the superior machine, which was a little more expensive. Pat, just think about it: if you decide to marry your GF, you will soon have a hundred stories like that to tell.

If I leave, she will find herself a full rent, full utilities, a dog, no car and a temporary job.

Yes, those things are all called "logical consequences of her own actions." By choosing to violate your personal boundary (of not tolerating abuse), she has created those logical consequences on her own. As long as you keep protecting her from them, she will never have an opportunity to grow up emotionally. Instead of keeping her mired in a toxic relationship that likely is harming BOTH of you, let her go. Significantly, the toxicity is not something SHE is doing to you. Rather, it is something you BOTH are doing to each other.

I need advice from someone who isn't looking to tell me what I want to hear

Pat, if this discussion rings a bell and you want to read more about BPD traits, an easy place to start on this forum is my discussion in LoveSunk's thread at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3375418#post3375418. If that discussion is helpful, you may also want to check out the discussion in Rebel's thread. My posts there start at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3398735#post3398735. If you have questions, I would be glad to try to answer them or point you to good online resources. Meanwhile, Caregiver, please start taking better care of yourself. Edited November 19, 2011 by Downtown

[pat666]

Wow!

 

What a fantastic reply!

 

I've always thought that my girlfriend may be bipolar but she doesn't seem to get huge highs, which is what I had read about it. She does get extremely down sometimes and will definitely play the victim in every fight. I remember sitting down with her last week for a talk and she straight out told me that she was the victim in every single fight we've had. That she has always been right about her fights and she means it... In fact, the whole time we've been together, she has never apologized for her actions. EVER.

 

I once threatened to leave and she basically told me :"Don't threaten me, there's the door. You think I need you?". I was one foot out of the door and finally caved and talked it out, which ended up with me apologizing so that she could be happy.

 

In the end, I have acted like quite the push over, which is odd because when it comes to work I'm the exact opposite.

 

It's time to move on... With everything we've been through, I simply don't have the will nor the interest in investing more time fixing this.

 

Christmas won't be easy, sitting in an empty apartment with nothing but a laptop won't be easy but a few months from now, things will work itself out and who knows perhaps I'll even move on and look to enter the market once again.

 

Thanks again for the replies and especially the time invested in the last one. It's definitely a reply that will change the course of my life for the better and if you ask me, it's certainly something that should make you proud.

 

Cheers,

Pat