New Here - my story of love and hurt

[woinlove]

Contrary to the dramatic answer you got about not telling your wife before Christmas ("I would take a real and painful Christmas over a fake and deceptive Christmas any day") Hogwash.

Who in their right mind would want this at this time of year?

I don't think you should talk with her until after the new year.

Just my opinion.

 

Hogwash? I assume you meant you feel differently? We all come from our own perspective and I'm coming from that of a woman who loves and trusts her husband and thinking whether I would rather have him continue lying to me over Christmas or not. Definitely not. you and I don't agree on honesty in marriage if you don't feel each additional day of a betrayal is more betrayal and a false celebration with deception behind it is worse than no celebration.

[confusedinkansas]

Let me clarify my Hogwash statement.

 

He has carried around this torch for Ann his whole married life. Why on earth would he tell his wife NOW. Telling during the holidays is an extremely selfish thing to do. (not that what he's doing behind her back isn't selfish too -I get that) Why would he cause drama to his ENTIRE family during the holidays because he's been pining away FOREVER for someone who may or may not be the next Mrs. Manbehindthemask?

 

I don't personally care if he tells her or not. HE is the only one that knows his situation. So HE will be the one to decide if he tells or not.

 

Let the woman/his wife at least get thru the holidays. Whether it's fake or not.

And really - how many of us fake our way thru the holidays with our families anyway.

[woinlove]

Let me clarify my Hogwash statement.

 

He has carried around this torch for Ann his whole married life. Why on earth would he tell his wife NOW. Telling during the holidays is an extremely selfish thing to do. (not that what he's doing behind her back isn't selfish too -I get that) Why would he cause drama to his ENTIRE family during the holidays because he's been pining away FOREVER for someone who may or may not be the next Mrs. Manbehindthemask?

 

I don't personally care if he tells her or not. HE is the only one that knows his situation. So HE will be the one to decide if he tells or not.

 

Let the woman/his wife at least get thru the holidays. Whether it's fake or not.

And really - how many of us fake our way thru the holidays with our families anyway.

 

From what man has posted, I get the impression things have rapidly changed in the last little while. He's been married for ten years and says he and Ann have communicated about once a year previously. Sounds like he has had more communication with Ann in the last few weeks than in the whole last decade. I don't get the impression he married his wife thinking she is second best and I don't really love her and if Ann ever becomes available I am going to leave my W for Ann. I get the impression that Ann recently contacted him with her own needs that she hasn't made completely clear to man, but which quickly led to them becoming intimate in conversation and everything changed and now man thinks this is the way it was always meant to be and the ten years of something else is a distant memory as fantasies of what is now and might be fill his head.

 

Admittedly, man has not been open and honest with his W leading her to believe Ann is nothing and was nothing but a friend. But I do think a lot has changed and it is only very recently that he has been thinking of leaving his W for Ann and has met her in a more intimate (and deceptive!) way and that is where the deep deception really lies. How long he continues it is defining him as a person right now. It is in this spirit and thinking of what M and her husband means to a wife who loves and trusts, that I feel every day of such deception is defining how man treats someone who loves him and is setting the stage for his W to learn how he treats her. Yes, I think carrying this deception over Christmas will teach her some very sad and painful lessons about what kind of man she married. That's my opinion.

Edited December 20, 2011 by woinlove

[manbehindthemask]

woinlove - I've been married for 7, not 10. Been together for 10. I wish I could you what you posted was true, but the deep down truth is, I always felt from the beginning my M would not go to the end and I knew there WAS a great possibility I'd leave for Ann if this day ever came. I thought this for years and that's my issue and my demons that I have to live with for dragging my W into this - that I feel horrible about.

 

As for rapidly changing, well I guess they are really. I can admit the EA is going a full force, I don't think it could get any more intense. We are talking about a life together, about spending the 2nd half of our lives the way we know is right. It will hard for sure and there are a million and one obstacles in the way, but we are both commited. I have asked a lot of hard questions and I honestly don't think there are any ill intentions, financial motives or need for a security blanket as others have suggested. I know those are common but I'm not giving you every single detail here and no one knows and can read her like I can.

[woinlove]

woinlove - I've been married for 7, not 10. Been together for 10. I wish I could you what you posted was true, but the deep down truth is, I always felt from the beginning my M would not go to the end and I knew there WAS a great possibility I'd leave for Ann if this day ever came. I thought this for years and that's my issue and my demons that I have to live with for dragging my W into this - that I feel horrible about.

 

As for rapidly changing, well I guess they are really. I can admit the EA is going a full force, I don't think it could get any more intense. We are talking about a life together, about spending the 2nd half of our lives the way we know is right. It will hard for sure and there are a million and one obstacles in the way, but we are both commited. I have asked a lot of hard questions and I honestly don't think there are any ill intentions, financial motives or need for a security blanket as others have suggested. I know those are common but I'm not giving you every single detail here and no one knows and can read her like I can.

 

As to your first paragraph, I really wonder if that is true. If you read LS, you will see that it is so common that people that get involved in deceptive affairs completely change their reality. Women who were friends with MM's betrayed W can start off saying she is a lovely woman and then as their obsession with MM grows, they end up describing her in extremely negative terms. Were they really friends for years with someone they described as lovely, but deep down they thought very poorly of, or did their perspective change and they rewrote their history to make themselves feel better or to convince themselves that MM is really the one and they are so much better for him than his W and their former friend? I'd guess the latter. Similarly, many people describe their M one way before the A and then completely differently after the A. I think they will only know the deep truth with a lot of therapy and time.

 

Have you considered therapy? I think it is a good idea in these cases of betrayal in general, just to learn more about yourself. In your case, you seem pretty good at self-denial - recall saying how in control you were just recently and how embarrassed you were at saying those early things about your feelings - but now they are true again.

 

Anyway, if you really have been acting for 7 or 10 years, I'm sure you can pull it off for several more weeks or however long you want to in order to get what you want. Sadly, I don't get a very good impression of either you or Ann as far as how you two treat others. On the other hand, I believe people can change and I think almost any couple can make a good life together if they do the work required on themselves and develop a compassionate perspective toward others. I hope that is you and I hope you won't continue using your current wife too much longer.

[kareena]

I agree I suppose...I also want to state, just for the record lol, that I have never ever cheated on anyone, not with my wife nor with anyone I ever dated. So it's not like I'm in this for the "A" - it really goes much much deeper than physical attraction, although that is a very strong component as well.

 

 

The fact that you never ever cheated before has nothing to do with it,I never ever cheated on any1 I ever dated,I am conservative and have only had 3 sexual partners..I ended up having an A with a MM while I was still dating my now ex bf .People don't walk into A's because they want to,and it certainly is not for the "physical attraction" because if that's what you're looking for you can get it without having an A.I'm sorry you are going through this it must be very hard and confusing,but IMHO I don't think you should meet up with this woman because it will be like opening pandora's box.

[Owl]

He's already opened Pandora's box.

 

He's already admitted he is in a full blown EA.

 

At this point, all that's left to do is damage control.

 

Which is why I'd asked him if he'd let his wife know yet...and clearly he doesn't want to.

 

Here's my take, as a formerly betrayed spouse.

 

You're not telling her now because you don't want to ruin her Christmas...you're not telling her now because you don't want to ruin yours.

 

I've seen this excuse (and yes, I'm going to call it an excuse...it's NOT a reason) given countless times on this site. "I'm holding off on telling BS because I don't want to hurt them more at this time"... And its just an EXCUSE to avoid facing the results of your choices and actions. It's not what the vast majority of us former BS's recommend...for good reasons. We've been through this. We know that WE would have rather known the truth sooner than have had it delayed.

 

Not telling right now does NOT do anything to suit your wife's needs/desires. It ONLY serves your own.

 

Recognize it for what it is.

 

Tell her now. Because now or later...for her it doesn't matter. Either she'll know now and be able to take action (and yes, have her Christmas ruined), or she'll know later, not be able to take her own action until then, and look back on this Christmas as the biggest sham and lie she's ever been fooled with.

 

Step up.

 

Tell her. Give her the choice of what she wants.

 

Or else chalk this up as one more selfish choice...don't try to hide it in some falsely altruistic motive.

[2sunny]

Proper order would help.

 

Since you don't live your wife the way she deserves to be loved - divorce her. Allow her to fully understand she didn't cause this - you not being capable of loving her is the cause.

 

She also deserves to understand that you never had space in your heart for her - you saved that space with "Ann" - until you either getAnn out of your head and heart by doing one or the other (going fully into seeing IF it would work with her or ending all communication with her) you will never know.

 

It hasn't been fair to your W on any level... She deserves better than what you have offered.

 

It may or may not work with Ann - but I'm sure you intend to find that out for yourself.

 

Proper order... Finish one thing before starting the next. When both divorces are FINAL is when it's right to move it forward.

 

As a side note - be honest... With all - Ann may not be the woman you think she is. What really is she offering? What evidence is there that she can be faithful? What does she need from you? Why has she kept you around but not considered marrying YOU in the past?

 

 

I'd need answers! Especially before turning my life upside down...

 

IF she doesn't work out - the bottom line is - you don't love your W enough to avoid thinking constantly of Ann. That's not loving behavior FROM YOU.

 

How can you set things right?

 

Be prepared that this won't go as you plan...

[manbehindthemask]

Proper order would help.

 

Since you don't live your wife the way she deserves to be loved - divorce her. Allow her to fully understand she didn't cause this - you not being capable of loving her is the cause.

 

She also deserves to understand that you never had space in your heart for her - you saved that space with "Ann" - until you either getAnn out of your head and heart by doing one or the other (going fully into seeing IF it would work with her or ending all communication with her) you will never know.

 

It hasn't been fair to your W on any level... She deserves better than what you have offered.

 

It may or may not work with Ann - but I'm sure you intend to find that out for yourself.

 

Proper order... Finish one thing before starting the next. When both divorces are FINAL is when it's right to move it forward.

 

As a side note - be honest... With all - Ann may not be the woman you think she is. What really is she offering? What evidence is there that she can be faithful? What does she need from you? Why has she kept you around but not considered marrying YOU in the past?

 

 

I'd need answers! Especially before turning my life upside down...

 

IF she doesn't work out - the bottom line is - you don't love your W enough to avoid thinking constantly of Ann. That's not loving behavior FROM YOU.

 

How can you set things right?

 

Be prepared that this won't go as you plan...

 

 

I agree with proper order and I'm not going into this as if I want to end my M and enter directly into an R with Ann. I realize they are independent events and the first should happen regardless of any future with Ann. It's hard because of who gets hurt - my M is not "bad" at all..in fact most of our friends probably think it's perfect. We don't fight, we like many of the same things, etc etc but there is no passion - it's more like we are roommates, at least from my perspective. And frankly it's always been this way. The truth is my W pursued me HARD, and gave ME many ultimatums and before I knew it I was M.

 

I can't deny the way I feel when I am with Ann. I have asked her all of the hard questions, I've asked her some pretty brutal questions and I truly believe her when she says she made mistakes early in life and has known for a long time that I am the one for her. I know I have felt the same for a long long time. Can't people just make mistakes sometimes for whatever reason when they are young, and you needn't read more into it than that.

She is actually surprised I think at my reactions, she fully expected me to slam the door shut. I'm sure many think I should have done just that, but it's too late now...

[woinlove]

I agree with proper order and I'm not going into this as if I want to end my M and enter directly into an R with Ann. I realize they are independent events and the first should happen regardless of any future with Ann. It's hard because of who gets hurt - my M is not "bad" at all..in fact most of our friends probably think it's perfect. We don't fight, we like many of the same things, etc etc but there is no passion - it's more like we are roommates, at least from my perspective. And frankly it's always been this way. The truth is my W pursued me HARD, and gave ME many ultimatums and before I knew it I was M.

 

I can't deny the way I feel when I am with Ann. I have asked her all of the hard questions, I've asked her some pretty brutal questions and I truly believe her when she says she made mistakes early in life and has known for a long time that I am the one for her. I know I have felt the same for a long long time. Can't people just make mistakes sometimes for whatever reason when they are young, and you needn't read more into it than that.

She is actually surprised I think at my reactions, she fully expected me to slam the door shut. I'm sure many think I should have done just that, but it's too late now...

 

 

Did she know you were the one for her after the birth of her first child? second child? Maybe her first and/or second marriage was a mistake but I don't see the usefulness of labelling a decade or so that includes having two children with another man a mistake.

 

You don't have to read more into it. Maybe you don't value what you have with your current W and will be happy even if things with Ann don't last. If it did matter to you that what you have with Ann could turn into a lasting R, then it would make sense to delve deeper. I think the statistics of third marriages lasting more than 5 years is about 10%, and even less when they start as affairs. One can change, but change doesn't happen by labelling a decade or so, which produced the amazing privilege and responsibility of children, a mistake.

[standtall]

Some people have to learn lessons the hard way..it is sad that this appears to be the case here. Unless someone has an epiphany about their marriage, look for an update in the divorce and separation forum.

[Owl]

That update has about a 50/50 chance of ending up in the divorce forum trying to sort out how to go through the divorce, or in the infidelity forum under the title of "screwed up, need help saving my marriage".

 

We've seen tons of these go either way over the years.

 

At this point, there's no further advice left to offer...he's beyond that at this point. Now he's just got to wait to see what the fallout of all of this will be and work from there.

[robf1971]

I'd need answers! Especially before turning my life upside down...

 

No but he's so in love with her it doesn't matter (note the sarcastic tone)

 

I also predict a thread in a few months titled 'screwed up, had an affair, wife doesn't want me back', heavens knows I've seen enough of them on here.

[alexandria35]

OP nobody can say with 100% certainity what the outcome of your relationship with Ann will be should you choose to leave your current marriage to be with her. I tend to lean towards it being a mistake and it not working out. As a woman I just don't believe what she says about always having been in love with you while she continously chose other men over you. That makes no sense. Women, especially young women, will go to ridiculous lengths to be with the man they love. The men she was with in the past were the men that truly had her heart at that time.

 

Maybe she herself believes the spin she is putting on things now because she is unhappy in her current marriage and you're looking like a pretty good option right now. And the easiest option because she can straight from her husband to you and she doesn't have to go through the hard work that most divorcing people have to do. You're her easy out. I don't know how old she is but it's hard on most people to find themselves alone in their forties or older and grabbing on to the nearest liferaft is a common mistake. From my own observations though I would say that the happiest divorced people I know are the ones who took time to be alone after their divorce to face their fears and truly get to know themselves. They didn't have another person waiting for them on the other side, they didn't even know if there ever would be another person, and they didn't grab onto the first person to come along because they knew that wouldnt be healthy.

 

I think you and Ann are helping each other rewrite history. You believe what she says because in her mind she really isn't lying. She probably really believes what she tells you and feels what she says she feels so it's not surprising that she is very convincing. However it's only because you are her life raft right now. She gets to leave her marriage and have you right there waiting. She doesn't have to face her demons, or the pain of being completely alone. She doesn't have to go through the hard work of learning to face her pain and stand on her own with nothing but her own convictions and integrity to give her strength. How lovely for her that she gets to divorce and skip right past all that yucky learning stuff that most people go through to become stronger, deeper, better people. Of course she thinks she loves you! This is why people are warned against getting involved with someone just ending a longterm relationship. Because this is what many newly seperated people do. They look for someone to grab onto and then they hold on for dear life and both people involved make the mistake of calling that love.

 

If you and Ann want a real shot at being happy together, I think you should stop talking to each other altogether, seperate from your spouses and then spend the next year or two putting your individual lives back together. After this time has passed then call each other up and see if you both still feel the same way about each other. If everything you have said here is true then isn't it certain that she will still be deeply in love with you two years down the road? I mean if you and she have loved each other all these many years wouldn't it be worth it to just wait one more year or two to truly be together in an honest and healthy way?

 

Please don't be cruel to your wife. Your relationship with Ann doesn't have to be built on lies and deceit and pain. You have already started down the cheaters path but it's not too late do pull back and start it over again the right way. It will hurt your wife when you leave her but don't take away her pride and dignity too. Don't cheat on her! You are already cheating so stop it! If the love between you and Ann is so true and deep then treat that love with respect and don't turn it into some kind of sordid secret.

[RecordProducer]

I can't deny the way I feel when I am with Ann. I have asked her all of the hard questions, I've asked her some pretty brutal questions and I truly believe her when she says she made mistakes early in life and has known for a long time that I am the one for her. I know I have felt the same for a long long time. Can't people just make mistakes sometimes for whatever reason when they are young, and you needn't read more into it than that.

This is not love. Love is when you make a mistake by pursuing someone who later turns out to be the wrong person - like her first love, her first husband.

 

Love is not when you realize 25 years later 'I should've been with this guy, I was stupid I didn't want him.'

[Fabian Montenegro]

Are you having fun OP?

 

This reads more like a story, than a person's complicated situation. Add in the fact that you are not really interested in anyone's advice, and I'm going to have to raise an eyebrow to you, sir.

[2sunny]

Either way his W deserves his truth. No more pretending. No more taking HER choice away from her by this illusion that you are happy and you love her when you don't...and maybe never have.

 

She deserves to have a manthat will love her completely - and that guy isn't you and never has Ben since you have always loved "Ann".

 

She deserves better than what you have offered and are currently dishing out to her without her knowledge.

[seren]

Are you having fun OP?

 

This reads more like a story, than a person's complicated situation. Add in the fact that you are not interested in anyone's advice, and I'm going to have to raise an eyebrow to you, sir.

 

 

I think I am with you on this Fabian, the opening post that said he was in love with his wife and not going anywhere, to, just going for closure, to being in love and folding laundry (WTF) and his marriage being a mistake, not loving his wife is like a very speedy, conflicting story journey.

 

TBH on the one hand I hope it isn't true as it all sounds so cold and planned toward his wife and if so I hope he grows some, leaves and she goes on to have a marriage with a man who loves her. On the other hand I hope he takes his head from up in the clouds, gets a dose of reality and realises that he has been third choice for Ann and now sounds like she has had a, I remember that guy who used to think I was the moon on a stick from all those years ago, think I'll reel him in. TBH, I think he and Ann deserve each other, it is one of those threads that make me feel such sadness for the BS and such disbelief that Man is such a, well less of one.

 

OP, I hope you are trolling, if not, I hope you tell your wife today, she will get over you and she will move along and find someone else and you can go be with LL Ann. Jeez you just couldn't make it up, could you?

[2sunny]

As for Ann - you don't see what life each day can bring to the R with kids and exH.

 

You are in love with that gal she used to be - that's not real since years and experience do change people... I hope you keep your eyes and ears open to reality. Her marriages failed for what reason? What part of that failure does SHE own?

 

Answers to those questions should give you an idea of what she is responsible for... If she owns the way she participated.

[18Years2Late]

Well...I'm back...I'm not going to tell u what u should do bc I FULLY understand the rush of elating and confusing emotions u are feeling right now...I completely understand...

 

I am your OW (not really but...)...I contacted my LLL after 18 years...I'm married...he's married...we love each other way more than we love our spouses...have for 22 years...we are LD too and only met twice in a year and 1/2...but for 4-5 days each time and it was a full blown PA/EA...I know u think "we only talked and tiny kiss"...but trust me when I say the EA was worse to get over than the PA...way worse...you're in deep Mr. Man...

 

When I contacted him (same as your OW did u), my M was/is over...only a matter of when and where...for him in his words, he "knew his M's days were numbered" as SOON AS HE DECIDED TO REPLY TO MY FIRST CONTACT...sorry for the caps but that's the important part...

 

His M was "good enough" before he heard from me...just status quo but good enough...your OW may very well love you and may be being truthful with you about her intentions...we can't tell thru the Internet crystal ball we have here...I can say that I 100% meant everything I told my xMM about our future...I would have filed for D in a NY second...because I WAS READY BEFORE ANY CONTACT WITH MM...he was not...for various reasons that don't matter...but he lied to me and led me down a path to nowhere for 18 months...

 

It seems that you were in a "good enough" M before OW came along...think long and hard...LONG AND HARD...about what YOU are willing to do IF your OW is fully truthful with you...please tell your W...and jump in to a R with OW with both feet...it's a gamble bc of course the OP's could b right and she could be leading u on...it's a BIG gamble...so if your not a gambling man...don't do it...if it doesn't work out with OW (unfortunately speaking from experience) you will be hurt and damaged in ways you never thought were possible...you will be a FOREVER changed man...not something I'd wish on my worst enemy...and even if plan b (your W) never finds out...your M will FOREVER be destroyed...you very well may end up with neither OW or W...so think about that risk before you and OW destroy your life, her life, and both S lives...it's a gamble and someone (or 2 or 3) will get hurt...

 

Please go read Dr. Nancy Kalish's website...lost and found lovers...LLL is an extremely powerful attraction that can and does frequently work out very well IF AND ONLY IF...neither party is married...Dr. Kalish highly promotes reuniting with LLL in that case...but she strongly encourages not to if either person is M...although she realizes that the pull is so strong that almost no one who is M and has contacted a LLL will listen...if either person is married...it most likely will end with life changing hurt for one or more people...I wish I would have seen her site 2 years ago...

 

I'm secretly cheering for you inside but hiding my face at the same time...good luck...I hope it works out for u...

[18Years2Late]

It's hard because of who gets hurt - my M is not "bad" at all..in fact most of our friends probably think it's perfect. We don't fight, we like many of the same things, etc etc but there is no passion - it's more like we are roommates, at least from my perspective. And frankly it's always been this way. The truth is my W pursued me HARD, and gave ME many ultimatums and before I knew it I was M...

 

ok I know you've said bf that you're not my xMM, but if u had said u had 2 kids I'd have a hard time believing that...I heard all that almost verbatim from my xMM...she persued and he said F it...18 yrs is not available so WTH?...and after saying all of that...his "roomate" M wasn't bad enough to hurt his 2 kids for...but me?...didn't care...even though it's a plus that u don't have kids...just remember it will b hard to hurt someone who hasn't hurt you...even when the M is just OK...are u up for that?...

 

When you get PM rights Man...we can talk offline if u want...I know what your going thru...just got off the front seat of that rollar coaster your on...it sucks...

[manbehindthemask]

ok I know you've said bf that you're not my xMM, but if u had said u had 2 kids I'd have a hard time believing that...I heard all that almost verbatim from my xMM...she persued and he said F it...18 yrs is not available so WTH?...and after saying all of that...his "roomate" M wasn't bad enough to hurt his 2 kids for...but me?...didn't care...even though it's a plus that u don't have kids...just remember it will b hard to hurt someone who hasn't hurt you...even when the M is just OK...are u up for that?...

 

When you get PM rights Man...we can talk offline if u want...I know what your going thru...just got off the front seat of that rollar coaster your on...it sucks...

 

 

First off, to whoever suggested I was a troll - not the case! I sometimes WISH this were just a story but it is all too real and it is my life.

 

18Y2L - your story sounds sooo much like mine, there are a LOT of similarities. I really don't have kids so guess it's not me

I have not read all of your posts, but sadly, I infer that everything did not go as planned. I have spent a lot of time over at the LL site reading all of the strories and I understand why Dr K does not advise contact - the emotions are SO SO strong! I was not prepared for that even though everyone told me so. Unfortunately I think these are journeys everyone really needs to take themselves.

 

I know I so want to beleive "this time it's different". The thing about her choosing others over me is this..her first M was very short and in truth we were not at a point yet at that time where I think either of us knew fully that we loved each other - it was probably more of an inappropriatly close friendship then. I think the only reason we did not get together then is because I wanted to move 3000 miles away, she didn't, she felt like if she tried to trap me (i would have changed my mind for her) that I would have forever resented her and we'd end up hating each other forever. So I left and she went into a rebound R and got married right away. What can I say we were all young and don't always listen to our hearts. Ann told me by the time she fully realized she was totally in love with me all of those years, I was gone, she was married and she's been living with the pain of her decisions for 20 yrs. And the truth is, for the first several years after her 2nd M, I would not talk to her because the pain was too great - so when she did reach out a few times early on, I rebuffed - I had not gotten through the anger yet of her "ruining" my life. crazy isn't it?

 

would be great to PM sometime, I have no one else I can talk to about this...thanks for your support. Also, I totally realize I sound like an A$$ for the way I am treating my W right now my head is just so full of emotion and I'm so confused and trying to separate what could be simply a rush from the EA versus what is real. Speaking of EA can I say the sexual tension btwn us is at mind blowing levels, so I'm glad in a way that I will not be seeing Ann for few months...can't trust myself right now. Anyway, that's it for now - guess I'm in deep!

[manbehindthemask]

Well...I'm back...I'm not going to tell u what u should do bc I FULLY understand the rush of elating and confusing emotions u are feeling right now...I completely understand...

 

I am your OW (not really but...)...I contacted my LLL after 18 years...I'm married...he's married...we love each other way more than we love our spouses...have for 22 years...we are LD too and only met twice in a year and 1/2...but for 4-5 days each time and it was a full blown PA/EA...I know u think "we only talked and tiny kiss"...but trust me when I say the EA was worse to get over than the PA...way worse...you're in deep Mr. Man...

 

When I contacted him (same as your OW did u), my M was/is over...only a matter of when and where...for him in his words, he "knew his M's days were numbered" as SOON AS HE DECIDED TO REPLY TO MY FIRST CONTACT...sorry for the caps but that's the important part...

 

His M was "good enough" before he heard from me...just status quo but good enough...your OW may very well love you and may be being truthful with you about her intentions...we can't tell thru the Internet crystal ball we have here...I can say that I 100% meant everything I told my xMM about our future...I would have filed for D in a NY second...because I WAS READY BEFORE ANY CONTACT WITH MM...he was not...for various reasons that don't matter...but he lied to me and led me down a path to nowhere for 18 months...

 

It seems that you were in a "good enough" M before OW came along...think long and hard...LONG AND HARD...about what YOU are willing to do IF your OW is fully truthful with you...please tell your W...and jump in to a R with OW with both feet...it's a gamble bc of course the OP's could b right and she could be leading u on...it's a BIG gamble...so if your not a gambling man...don't do it...if it doesn't work out with OW (unfortunately speaking from experience) you will be hurt and damaged in ways you never thought were possible...you will be a FOREVER changed man...not something I'd wish on my worst enemy...and even if plan b (your W) never finds out...your M will FOREVER be destroyed...you very well may end up with neither OW or W...so think about that risk before you and OW destroy your life, her life, and both S lives...it's a gamble and someone (or 2 or 3) will get hurt...

 

Please go read Dr. Nancy Kalish's website...lost and found lovers...LLL is an extremely powerful attraction that can and does frequently work out very well IF AND ONLY IF...neither party is married...Dr. Kalish highly promotes reuniting with LLL in that case...but she strongly encourages not to if either person is M...although she realizes that the pull is so strong that almost no one who is M and has contacted a LLL will listen...if either person is married...it most likely will end with life changing hurt for one or more people...I wish I would have seen her site 2 years ago...

 

I'm secretly cheering for you inside but hiding my face at the same time...good luck...I hope it works out for u...

 

18Y2L - I don't know your whole story, but if you had seen the LL site 2 yrs ago, do you think it really would have changed things? Would you have said, gee guess I should not meet up because Dr K say's so? Just curious that is all....b/c I did read all of that while deciding whether or not to meet Ann in person - and in the end, the lure was too strong for me to deny. I know sucessfull reconciliations are rare, but in situations where both partners really do take ACTION to end up together, and have talked through all of the hard stuff, I though sucess rate was very high?

 

Thing is, Ann and I are not all that different. We communicate better than any 2 people can I think, so much so that I'm almost a diff person around her because I can say ANYTHING to her - it's freeing really. We know the road ahead is hard and innocent people who love us will be devastated - it's focusing on the after that makes that "seem" worth it, at least now. All I know for sure is...2012 is likely going to be a year I won't soon forget.

[woinlove]

18Y2L - I don't know your whole story, but if you had seen the LL site 2 yrs ago, do you think it really would have changed things? Would you have said, gee guess I should not meet up because Dr K say's so? Just curious that is all....b/c I did read all of that while deciding whether or not to meet Ann in person - and in the end, the lure was too strong for me to deny. I know sucessfull reconciliations are rare, but in situations where both partners really do take ACTION to end up together, and have talked through all of the hard stuff, I though sucess rate was very high?

 

Thing is, Ann and I are not all that different. We communicate better than any 2 people can I think, so much so that I'm almost a diff person around her because I can say ANYTHING to her - it's freeing really. We know the road ahead is hard and innocent people who love us will be devastated - it's focusing on the after that makes that "seem" worth it, at least now. All I know for sure is...2012 is likely going to be a year I won't soon forget.

 

Re bolded, how high does Kalish say the success rate is when one or both had to end marriages to get together?

 

As I said earlier, the success rate for third marriages is very low and even lower when starting as an affair. Seems all the "reasons" you give for Ann's 2 marriages to others does not require her to change in order to become the type of person who can sustain a loving and committed R, which is usually what is required for a third marriage to work. And starting as an A makes it harder due to what you say in your 2nd paragraph - deceiving and treating others badly so that you can be together. Not only does behaving that way become a part of you, it becomes a part of your shared history.

 

You seem determined to keep your W in the dark until you have figured things out more for yourself, are more certain of where things are heading with Ann. That is serving your purposes at this moment, but you will have to carry into the future the fact that you are the kind of person who uses someone who loves you that way. Personally, I don't think anyone, even a long-lost-love, is worth compromising yourself in that way. You could instead chose to treat your W with more respect and integrity, be honest and let her make her own informed decisions, and you might, under those circumstances, end up with Ann, but you would not have become quite as much of a sh-- because of it. Please try to think of what kind of person you want to be.

 

From what you write about Ann, the two marriages, contacting you in this way before she is divorced, makes me think she isn't likely to have what it takes to maintain a lasting committed R, and if you two are going to stand a chance, at least one of you will need to have what it takes. The decisions you make now and how you treat others, can help you be that one.

[18Years2Late]

WIL-as I stated Dr. Kalish STRONGLY urges LLL to NOT contact/see each other if one or both is married...bc the feelings are lightyears stronger than just a regular A and chances are real good it WON'T work out due to one or both not leaving the M and then lots of people will be hurt just like any A where one party is M...but ddays happen waaaaaaay more often that other types of A due to the intense emotions that are much more difficult to hide...Dr. Kalish has first hand knowledge of what it's like for a LLL reuniting that failed miserably and she has a PhD in psychology...only one so far who has studied LLL R in depth with scientific studies and published numerous books on the matter...I'm about to fork out the $35 annual subscription fee to her site so I can read the restricted forums...and maybe participate in the discussion...

 

Man...I promise to write more soon about my back story and LLL experience...I've got a house full for the holidays...kinda need to b sociable...

 

But...to answer one question...if I had read Dr Kalish's books and site prior to meeting up with LLL would I have still done it?...absolutely without a doubt...bc like Dr. K says once u make contact...not even god himself could keep u away...regardless of the consequences...regardless of her scientific studies...you're done...and she's right...so right...now...if I knew the excruciatingly painful outcome and how much it would F me up for possibly a lifetime...NOT to forget xMM and his 2 kids (he had several Ddays...I have not...something for u to think about) my answer would be different...hindsight is always 20/20 and no one offered me a crystal ball...so what done is done...and it was an epic fail...just like Dr. K says it will b...but nothing I can say or you will read on LS or LLL or god himself will sway you...and I totally get that...I feel your pain...only way worse bc you've only just begun...put your seatbelt on...it's gonna b one hellofa ride...

 

I hope your having a good holiday season...and your emotions aren't tearing u apart inside...but I've BTDT...write more soon...I hope u come back and post...

Edited December 24, 2011 by 18Years2Late