When good people have affairs

[despicableME]

I believe in the shroud of love and lust we can paint out partners and see exactly what we want to see. We glamorize their positive qualities, overlook the negatives, love that person. Is that wrong? I say no, but it's (and I dislike the term) a fog. We see what we want to see and can pretty much paint that person in a positive light and can fool ourselves into believing they can meet every point in the list you've given.

 

Exaclty the point I was trying to make.

[findingnemo]

Hi Cabin,

 

That seems to be an interesting book and what you outlined applies to all Rs IMO. I believe that all individuals should ask themselves whether or not their current R fits those criteria. One of the main reasons MPs have As is because they feel that something is wrong and do not address it. If someone asked these questions first, they'd probably work more towards restoring the current R rather than cheat.

 

If in an A, this is a good tool although there could be a tendency to romanticize the AP and the possibilities. There are plenty of good people who are stuck in Ms they are not happy in. Those kinds of people have issues making definitive decisions. Why does there have to be someone to leave a M for? If the situation is not good, one should leave anyway.

 

I'm glad though that there is a book for WS to use as a resource. Society has tried everything to discourage being wayward and yet it goes on and on. Obviously there's a disconnect somewhere. There's a need for more resources for them to help them make the right decisions, communicate better and to help minimize the fallout for their families.

[Thunderbolt]

Cabin, I like this thread...kind of interesting. Wisernow, spot on with your most recent response. Looking back, my xH checked quite a few boxes based on your listed criteria. I felt extremely comfortable with him in many aspects of life. The one thing that I didn't feel comfortable with him was in the sex department. Looking back, I never desired him and sex was never very good at all. Somewhat awkward, to be honest. Perhaps this puts me in a very shallow light, but I'm just telling the truth. XMM and I definitely fulfilled many of the listed criteria. But, I never felt completely comfortable with him. I never wanted us to get caught and I always worried about his wife and my friends finding out about us. I always had an anxiety about it. In the pit of my stomach, I always knew I was doing something wrong. Our love making was off the charts. This was when I felt the most comfortable with him. We both would always let go of our worries/fears and would always put ourselves in a position of vulnerability during this time.

 

Sometimes I truly miss elements of my xH and my marriage. The comfort and ease is something I long for. But, I wasn't in love with him and it's something that I totally craved in a relationship. I found this missing piece with xMM, but it was lacking some other key elements.

 

Perhaps I'm destined to be alone, but I do know what I need in a R. Some people are willing to settle while others are willing to hold out for something truly amazing. Both significant relationships I've just spoken of had their daily challenges. I believe it's tough to compare an A to a marriage. They both present different challenges and stresses. They're just different on so many levels.

 

My xH and xMM have taught me a lot about life and about myself. I'd never choose to re-live the last 10 years of my life the way I have, but at least I can say that I've learned quite a bit along the way. I'm a much better person because of my past experiences. Too bad so much people had to get hurt along the way.

[despicableME]

If in an A, this is a good tool although there could be a tendency to romanticize the AP and the possibilities. There are plenty of good people who are stuck in Ms they are not happy in. Those kinds of people have issues making definitive decisions. Why does there have to be someone to leave a M for? If the situation is not good, one should leave anyway.

 

Again, this is the point I was trying to make. If you've truly "lost that lovin' feelin'" why not just call it quits? IMHO, Cabin's situation is considered an exit affair- for both of them. This is what drove the last nail in the coffin that was her(his) marriage. Its not that this guy(AP) is so GREAT... well maybe in her eyes. Taking it into perspetive, the marriage was lacking on many levels, so the conditions for an affair with this OM(her colleague) were ripe. I don't doubt they both "love" each other now, but its not as if they are/were star-crossed lovers destined to be together- THAT'S ABSURD. I mean, she didn't just walk into her job one day... look at this guy, and say- "Yup, this is the man of my dreams... I'm going to leave my current situation to be with him"... c'mon... nobody thinks that way.

Edited November 20, 2011 by despicableME

[donnamaybe]

Not sure your point is really worth making here... I mean, isn't that why people read ANYTHING? To make meaning of their current situations?

 

 

 

Perhaps you ought to familiarize yourself with a text before you decide you've got it all figured out. The book actually goes through, very logically and empathetically, how to proceed with either restoring the marriage and making it thrive or leaving it to be with your AP.

 

Since deception is wrong, you must be a betrayed spouse and not someone who would ever cheat... (smirk)

 

So apparently you get that warm, fuzzy feeling when the one person who promised to always have your back deceives you?

Edited November 20, 2011 by donnamaybe

[Spark1111]

So apparently you get that warm, fuzzy feeling when the one person who promised to always have your back deceives you?

 

smirk;)

 

FBS here....Donna, you nailed it.

 

No one disputes that the book may give you a check list of what to look for in a relationship.

 

Why isn't possible to assess your marriage, fix it or leave it, before deceiving your spouse?

 

Why do so many only realize what they perceive they are lacking in a relationship when they are in the throes of limerance, romanticism and/or hot sex?

 

smirk,

[Spark1111]

Again, this is the point I was trying to make. If you've truly "lost that lovin' feelin'" why not just call it quits? IMHO, Cabin's situation is considered an exit affair- for both of them. This is what drove the last nail in the coffin that was her(his) marriage. Its not that this guy(AP) is so GREAT... well maybe in her eyes. Taking it into perspetive, the marriage was lacking on many levels, so the conditions for an affair with this OM(her colleague) were ripe. I don't doubt they both "love" each other now, but its not as if they are/were star-crossed lovers destined to be together- THAT'S ABSURD. I mean, she didn't just walk into her job one day... look at this guy, and say- "Yup, this is the man of my dreams... I'm going to leave my current situation to be with him"... c'mon... nobody thinks that way.

 

I think we agree!

 

I am amazed how many talk themselves out of their marriage when they are in an affair.

 

At one time wasn't there love and passion and fun and commitment in the relationship with the spouse?

 

I mean, you married them fercryin'outloud! And if you married them for the wrong reasons it seems unfair that you didn't inform them, but now, now that something fun has come along, well it's over.

 

I'm sure Myra reads the stats and decided to craft a book for the large percentage who have an affair.

 

I hope she is laughing all the way to the bank.

[Silly_Girl]

smirk;)

Why isn't possible to assess your marriage, fix it or leave it, before deceiving your spouse?

 

Who said it's impossible? Should such books not exist? It's possible to control one's weight, should we laugh at people who use diet books? I don't really understand how your Q here is relevant, or maybe it wasn't meant to be.

 

Why do so many only realize what they perceive they are lacking in a relationship when they are in the throes of limerance, romanticism and/or hot sex?

 

A rhetorical question?

 

I don't know anyone who thinks their relationship is the best it's possible to get who THEN goes and has an affair. There's a lot of chicken and egg about it, naturally.

 

smirk,

[denise_xo]

At one time wasn't there love and passion and fun and commitment in the relationship with the spouse?

 

I mean, you married them fercryin'outloud! And if you married them for the wrong reasons it seems unfair that you didn't inform them, but now, now that something fun has come along, well it's over.

 

Yes, this was the point I was trying to make in my previous post. I think most couples feel that they have the majority of those connections in the first place (when they marry), so the important question is what happened along the way for that to be gone? If you don't figure that out in the first place, you might just repeat the pattern with a new partner.

[mzdolphin]

This is why I struggled to end my affair with exMM. We had all of that times 10. Remember, we had dated years ago when we were both single, so we also had chemistry. We used to talk on the phone for hours.

 

He often commented about how he could tell me anything. We also shared the same passion for playing tennis, politics, were from the state, and cheered for the same football team (even though we both live far away from where we grew up).

 

He claims he turned to his wife after I dumped him and moved away without saying goodbye. I was in my mid 20s. He was in his early 30s and was divorced with three small kids. My career was taking off. I couldn't imagine settling down and being mom to three kids. He ended up marrying a woman he worked with, who had two small kids of her own. All their children are adults now. Perhaps he's reevaluating their relationship.

 

May he has all that with his wife too and is just a cheat. But I'm telling you, everything felt so easy, so natural. We would sit and laugh so much. Chemistry was out of this world. But all I know is as long as he's married, I can't talk to him.

[Cabin]

You said it yourself, yet you state that you're current AP is ALL THAT and then some... so which is it.

 

You don't need to read every book on the subject to know that your TOTALLY infatuated with your AP, and see no wrong in him, or your current state of "affairs". .

 

I don't know what you mean about I "said it" myself.

 

And it's statements like the second one above that make you come off like a pompous know it all. I am able to look at my AP and see many flaws, many human qualities, many areas for growth, etc. In our relationship, we see each other for who we are, including our many weaknesses and failings. We both feel that this A has provided an opportunity for tremendous self-reflection and emotional growth, clarifying who we really are and what we really want in a relationship.

[Cabin]

The only difference is that we're not leaving our spouses... other than that its the same template. .

 

No, we have a relationship rooted in emotional needs and emotional compatibility with a serving of great sex as the cherry on top.

 

I take issue with the nonchalant use of the word "template". If you want to simplify to the point of exhaustion, all relationships, marriages or otherwise, tend to use the same template.

[Cabin]

That said, I would guess that any human believes they have those in their partners they've chosen when they say "I do" to a marriage or within a relationship. Is that always true? Do we in the haze of love really analyze the points? Some probably do, most probably don't.

.

 

When getting married, I knew that I was missing the physical chemistry, and even the easy connections, with my H. At the time, I figured I must not have been a very sexual person (broken somehow that way) and I think I just wanted to be in a relationship more than I wanted to be in a relationship with him.

 

I believe in the shroud of love and lust we can paint out partners and see exactly what we want to see. We glamorize their positive qualities, overlook the negatives, love that person. Is that wrong? I say no, but it's (and I dislike the term) a fog. We see what we want to see and can pretty much paint that person in a positive light and can fool ourselves into believing they can meet every point in the list you've given.

.

 

I was never in the shroud of love with my husband, more with the idea of the relationship. And I mistook that for love.

 

Fast forward.. Love fog dissipated, perhaps married, kids, jobs, mortgage, bills, life happens and we start to realize that "perfect person" that got a check mark on the list doesn't quite measure up.

 

Truth was, they have always been that person, you just see them clearer now. Are they a bad person? Nope. More than likely the exact same person you fell in love with, with the extra burden of real life.

.

 

In my case, I actually like my H better now that we have separated and are friends. Our relationship as friends is better than our M.

 

This post isn't directed specifically at you or your situation, so please don't take it personally as no disrespect is intended, .

 

Not at all. I appreciate your thoughtful reply.

 

but as someone else pointed out, you may find all of those qualities in a person, but what do you do to maintain the same level intimacy/respect/spontaneity/caring, etc. to keep the relationship thriving?

 

Finding/starting a relationship isn't so difficult, maintaining it and growing it is a whole other thing. That's work.

 

I know all Rs lose their lustre as infatuation and the early newness wears off. I know it takes thoughtfulness, effort, planning and care to maintain an intimate and loving bond between two people. I guess what I have realized is that when the R was never very intimate, never very connected, never quite right... the "work" required to keep it going doesn't seem much worth it.

[Spark1111]

Yes, this was the point I was trying to make in my previous post. I think most couples feel that they have the majority of those connections in the first place (when they marry), so the important question is what happened along the way for that to be gone? If you don't figure that out in the first place, you might just repeat the pattern with a new partner.

 

Yes, statistically you most likely will repeat the pattern when limerance wears off unless you make a conscious effort to keep fueling the marriage.

 

In counseling, my fWS learned it isn't what he was GETTING from the marriage, it was what he had stopped GIVING to the marriage that was the source of his unhappiness. I too, was guilty of complacency.

 

Think about it: Had he devoted countless hours to communicating, romancing, dating, listening and cherishing me as he did her; making it as fun and exciting for me, we might not have an affair to overcome.

 

But instead he decided FOR ME that I would be unresponsive and it was EASIER with a new, infatuated co-worker.

 

It's convoluted thinking. And if you do not realize it, you very well may be doomed to repeat it.

[Cabin]

There are plenty of good people who are stuck in Ms they are not happy in. Those kinds of people have issues making definitive decisions. Why does there have to be someone to leave a M for? If the situation is not good, one should leave anyway.

 

I agree with you, at least in theory... but I guess I can only share from my experience why that didn't work for me. I didn't realize what it could feel like to be with someone where you have fun, where you can talk for hours, where you have mutual respect, where you just "fit" sexually, where you take care of each other and aren't afraid to be vulnerable, revealing all your insecurities, flaws, darknesses, etc. I just thought, about my marriage, "Meh, I guess this is marriage."

 

Unfortunately, it was only through the A that I was able to see what was possible, and what I wanted.

 

I know this is going to sound a bit trivial - so please don't jump all over me for the comparison I am about to make - but how often do people leave their careers without another position in sight? How often do people sell their homes without another house or plan for another house in the works? Most people do not make tremendous life changes without a vision for what's to come...

 

I'm glad though that there is a book for WS to use as a resource. Society has tried everything to discourage being wayward and yet it goes on and on. Obviously there's a disconnect somewhere. There's a need for more resources for them to help them make the right decisions, communicate better and to help minimize the fallout for their families.

 

I agree with you; there is a tremendous disconnect somewhere. I think the disconnect, at least in my experience, came from being way too young to pick a marriage partner and having no idea what I should have been looking for.

 

It's funny, I just remembered... to be married in the church, I had to attend marriage classes with my H, lead by a marriage counsellor affiliated with the church. He recommended a book, Getting the Love You Want, and talked all about how we're drawn to people who are our perfect matches, and we just need to realize that and work with it. After marriage class, my H and I, along with three other couples from class, all wound up at the book store buying the book. Why? Because we were already having relationship problems and not even married yet. I wonder how many of those couples are still together today...

 

Now, if that counsellor would have said, "look, it's possible that some of you who are going to be getting married aren't in relationships suitable for the long term" and then went through the basic ingredients needed for any intimate bond to flourish, I would have had to honestly look at our R for what it was.

[Cabin]

I don't doubt they both "love" each other now, but its not as if they are/were star-crossed lovers destined to be together- THAT'S ABSURD. I mean, she didn't just walk into her job one day... look at this guy, and say- "Yup, this is the man of my dreams... I'm going to leave my current situation to be with him"... c'mon... nobody thinks that way.

 

Who said anyone thinks that way? I have a hard time following some of your ideas.

[Cabin]

 

Think about it: Had he devoted countless hours to communicating, romancing, dating, listening and cherishing me as he did her; making it as fun and exciting for me, we might not have an affair to overcome.

.

 

If I can play devil's advocate here (because I do see your point and can agree to it in some ways), how many wives are really so warm and approachable for such activities?

 

Another issue I have is this idea that you can just swap out one woman for the other - the wife or the OW - with the same activities, and you can achieve the same result. It makes no sense.

 

All the dinners out, long talks, and cherished moments in the world would not make my H exchangeable for my AP. They are totally different people, and the R I have with both is totally different.

[denise_xo]

Society has tried everything to discourage being wayward and yet it goes on and on. Obviously there's a disconnect somewhere. There's a need for more resources for them to help them make the right decisions, communicate better and to help minimize the fallout for their families.

 

I think this is a good point. I think we need less taboo without more acceptance. If people could speak more freely to their partners about experiencing attraction to other people (which is increasingly likely to happen as the world gets more mobile, we meet a lot more people during our life time than the average person did 150 years ago, etc.) and everything that goes with that in terms of reflection upon marriage dynamics and new ways of establishing boundaries, then perhaps a lot of these situations could have been dealt with more constructively at a much earlier point in the process.

[denise_xo]

If I can play devil's advocate here (because I do see your point and can agree to it in some ways), how many wives are really so warm and approachable for such activities?

 

Another issue I have is this idea that you can just swap out one woman for the other - the wife or the OW - with the same activities, and you can achieve the same result. It makes no sense.

 

All the dinners out, long talks, and cherished moments in the world would not make my H exchangeable for my AP. They are totally different people, and the R I have with both is totally different.

 

Cabin, was your connection(s) with your H different when you first got married? Or has it been the same for the duration of your marriage?

[Cabin]

Cabin, was your connection(s) with your H different when you first got married? Or has it been the same for the duration of your marriage?

 

It has been the same, flatline, since the beginning. There is something very fundamental missing between us, at least on my end.

 

It's not like I fell into an A and things fell apart in my marriage. I only realized what was never there in my marriage through my A.

[novagirl61]

I'm glad I found this thread. A lot of people seem to stand in judgement of those who find themselfs in extramarrital affairs. You don't plan for something like this to happen. Sometimes you just meet someone along life's pathway and wham - the chemistry hits you like a brick wall. Then you are faced with a challenge.

 

When you've been married for a long time and have raised children, it changes your relationship dramatically. It changes both husband and wife - sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse. You're not the same couple you were when you got married. That's why when you meet someone new that you find a connection with, it is a great temptation.

 

I myself have been married 22 years. I have not had an affair but have been tempted. I know that my husband was involved with a woman a few years ago (not sure to what extent). I would never stand in judgement of someone else as if I were perfect and faultless.

[Mme. Chaucer]

There is one feature shared by several of the women involved in EMA's here on LS; that is a tremendous romanticization of the affair itself.

 

I'm not talking about the AP.

 

I'm talking about :love:"THEIR AFFAIR,":love: and if I had the emoticons, I would embellish the capitalized with lots of rainbows exploding out of twinkling stars and throbbing pink hearts, surrounded by frolicking My Little Ponies.

 

Truly, I have a lot of understanding for human frailties and shortcomings. I realize that it's possible to fall out of love though you "promised" to love forever, and to move into a relationship that you shouldn't have for many reasons, and to fall in love again. I'm not really an anti-affair nazi, though I am sure I come off that way. No, I don't like deceit, but in my own life, I have been humbled by making the EXACT mistake (or worse) that I had most loudly criticized in other people. More than once. I think life's funny that way. Well, not exactly funny.

 

Anyway, I digress.

 

Cabin. WHY are you wasting your time immersed in reading books about affairs? I mean, have you not already made your decision? Your husband is out, right? Your AP and his wife are working out their separation agreement.

 

YOU HAVE A YOUNG CHILD WHO IS LIVING … where? How is that going? A few months ago, it was an issue, but today - you and your husband are happily living separately as "friends" but your daughter has evidently become a complete non-issue.

 

My point is - don't you have a lot of things on your plate related to getting your life in order besides reading about the wonders of :love:YOUR AFFAIR:love:?

 

What is so enchanting to YOU about the fact that you are in an affair? I really feel that you identify more strongly with being an "Other Woman" than you do with ANY other aspects of your being as a person.

 

Yes, I know this is the OW board and that's what will be discussed here, but that does not change the fact that I believe YOU are completely hypnotized and dreamy eyed about how "special" YOU are and your affair is, to the exclusion of all other aspects of life.

 

Why do I think this is a problem?

 

Because romanticizing, superficially dissecting, daydreaming about AN :love:AFFAIR:love: has nothing to do with real life. I think it's a bunch of avoidance tactics, and that you are taking a side trip from real life.

 

If you're not, then (knowing the whole backstory), why are you taking every measure conceivably possible to preserve your status as an "OTHER WOMAN" rather than living openly in a relationship with the man you love? And getting on with that, including integrating your own daughter (and your AP's kids) into the new regime?

 

I think it's because you are completely attached to the destructive, yet fluffy romantic flourishes you've created around YOUR AFFAIR.

 

What do you think?

[Cabin]

My point is - don't you have a lot of things on your plate related to getting your life in order besides reading about the wonders of :love:YOUR AFFAIR:love:?

 

Man, that is one heck of a leap. Reading a book - something I do because I am a reader - to help me understand myself, my situation, my world, the various dynamics and considerations involved, is in NO WAY about creating wonder around my A, little ponies frolicking or not.

 

May I share with you Mme. Chaucer that your comments are always so personally invested in my situation that it's clear to me something about me or my A has struck a chord with you in a deeply personal way, so when you comment on my posts, you are much more attached than the average respondent. It creeps me out a bit.

 

What is so enchanting to YOU about the fact that you are in an affair? I really feel that you identify more strongly with being an "Other Woman" than you do with ANY other aspects of your being as a person.

 

Exactly. And that must be why my AP and I are making movements to be legitimate... because I'm enchanted being the OW and am in love with the "fluffy flourishes" of the A. You've nailed it.

[Mme. Chaucer]

May I share with you Mme. Chaucer that your comments are always so personally invested in my situation that it's clear to me something about me or my A has struck a chord with you in a deeply personal way, so when you comment on my posts, you are much more attached than the average respondent.

 

You're right! I have a tendency to react strongly to posters here on LS who seem to be profoundly invested in dishonesty. It's not confined to the OW forum. That's kind of a hot button with me.

 

It creeps me out a bit.

 

Yeah, I feel the same way when I read your stories about your beautiful affair and all the creative ways you justify keeping the lies alive.

 

Exactly. And that must be why my AP and I are making movements to be legitimate... because I'm enchanted being the OW and am in love with the "fluffy flourishes" of the A. You've nailed it.

 

Well, since your "movements" are happening with glacial speed, I'm pretty sure that you will be able to remain in the fluffy zone until the polar ice cap has completely melted.

 

With regards to your "movements," Cabin, I asked you a very direct question with no attack whatsoever in your last thread, which you ignored. I'll ask it again:

 

Why do you and your AP choose to keep the lies alive when both his wife and your husband are already "out"? It's a simple question. Why is it "better" for his wife to be told she's rejected because he "never loved her" than the truth? In what ways is this serving him and you? Is there any thought or care for the other parties, or is this mostly about preserving money?

 

I'm also curious about how you and your husband are handling child custody. A few threads back, you'd intended to keep lying until she was grown, so as to not disrupt her life. Evidently that changed somewhere along the way.

 

Since you put all of this out here, I think it's fair for me to ask for the answers, even though you feel "creeped out" by me. I am sure I'm not the only one who would like these parts of your romantic tale filled in.

[MissBee]

I recently read Mira Kirshenbaum's "When Good People Have Affairs" and though it would be a good idea to share two thoughts from it:

 

1) She provides a framework for comparing your M to your A relationship:

 

There are, in fact, only four dimensions when it comes to comparing potential partners:

1. Who the people are in themselves.

2. What your relationship is with each one.

3. What your lifestyle would be with each.

4. Who you are with each.

 

2) She talks about how necessary it is for any romantic relationship to have these five elements of chemistry:

 

 

 

 

Fun: When it's just the two of you, no other couples, no kids, no toys (like a boat), and no props (like a party or a club), do you feel that there's always the real possibility that the two of you will find some way to have fun together, and does this, in fact, happen fairly often?

 

Safety: By and large, do you feel safe being with the other person? And do you feel that you're particularly safe from being hurt physically or emotionally? And do you feel that you're safe when it's most important to you, when you're being vulnerable or personal or intimate?

 

Mutual Respect: Even though you're aware of the other person's flaws, do you basically, overall, respect him/her as they are right now? Not necessarily that he/she's a fantastic genius, but that in most ways he/she's solid, capable, responsible, smart, and kind, and generally makes good decisions. And does he/she treat you as if he/she generally believes that right now, just as you are, you're solid, capable, responsible, smart, and kind, and generally make good decisions?

 

Physical Chemistry: Does the other person feel right to you physically? Their smell, their touch, the way they look. Not perfect, not necessarily great, but right for you. And do you clearly get the sense that you're right for your partner physically? And does the amount and nature of the physical affection between you feel right? And does the way you make love feel right?

 

Easy Connections: When it's just the two of you, and you're able to leave the stress of day-to-day life behind, and you're not mad at each other, does it feel easy, comfortable, relaxing to be together, and do you feel connected, not like polite strangers who happen to get along, but like lovers who are close? And is it like this more often than not?

 

You're supposed to ask these five questions about both your SO, as well as your AP. As I said, these are the five ingredients of relationship chemistry, and you need all five ingredients to make the relationship work. You don't have to have a lot of each ingredient, but you have to at least have some!

 

My H and I might have had a little of two of them, but zero of others. I have all five with my AP.

 

This is a great book for those deciding whether to leave their primary relationship to be with their AP.

 

Good info!

 

I do think people have to be conscientious about their relationship choices and do the necessary "research" and weighing as any smart person would any other decision. I for one spend LOTS of time researching before I purchase big ticket items. I don't simply say well this looks nice....let me have it. I really weigh various factors, look at reviews, consider the pros and cons, how much it will set me back etc.

 

If one is going to marry someone especially, I do think if some people considered things like these and did the relevant research and weighing of the relationship and considered other things besides feelings of being inlove, they'd rethink the whole deal.

 

This isn't fool proof -as people do grow and change and it is possible that it starts off feeling like it's a yes in all areas, also many people lie to themselves (which is the biggest problem of all IMO) and in forming relationships because they want it to fit they aren't truthful about what they really want and need and sort of shift it around to suit the person they're with- but it goes a long way and helps you to from the start make better decisions. But with growing and changing I suppose another aspect is to consider the relationships growth potential and consider how you guys handle conflicts and does it seem like you can grow together or it's most likely to be a part and when conflicts come....does it seem like you two will face them together as a team or each person will retreat and do their own thing, find another lover behind the other's back, be passive aggressive etc. That is very important to me: we're going to disagree/argue...so I need to find out HOW. People don't often think of this as an important part in choosing a partner...they'd rather pretend they'll just never argue but I need to be with someone who our arguments are productive and in the end and we resolve them in a manner that makes us both feel good.