When good people have affairs

[pureinheart]

Not listening = not agreeing with you?

 

Priddy much, it appears that way.

 

It's easy for me to understand that you see people as "human", capable of good and bad, high ground and low ground, actions and inactions. Nothing more, nothing less....ain't it great to be human my friend, mistakes, failures, successes, the entire enchillada.

[pureinheart]

Work - from my home office, mostly at my full time job, but also another gig, and some project stuff. I still do some music related work, mostly in the evenings, mostly in the studio I have here, but no longer play in a band or play out on a regular basis. I also, on occasion, do some custom paint work on cars or bikes (mostly bikes).

 

I do not collect disability, but have been told I would be eligible due to PTSD from my experiences in the military. I have no intention of applying for it.

 

As for the thong or french cut panties question... briefs (with a suit & tie) or commando (with jeans)

I wear both on a daily basis - suit & tie during the day, jeans in the evening and on weekends. People that know me one way or the other, can't fathom me in the other.

 

As for what I look like, since he has become popular, a lot of people comment I remind them of Guy Fiery - but I don't spike my hair.

 

Any other questions - feel free to ask.

 

I bet you are hot:D, You sound hot:D

[donnamaybe]

Most of the sentiments relayed in this thread could be summed up thusly: "Standards - Have 'em"

[beenburned]

I haven't read this book but this whole thread makes me want to go buy the book.

[Radagast]

I haven't read this book but this whole thread makes me want to go buy the book.

 

Do. I found it very useful.

[woinlove]

I agree. The book is fairly hit and miss at times. The hits are fairly balanced though. Which was my point.

 

I largely believe that more honest WSs would disregard the misses (that was a terrible pun) in this book. While more dishonest WSs would have lied anyway; as well as attempted to minimise the psychological impact of their actions, both to themselves and to their spouse.

 

A couple of other points: It sort of dances around the issue of the very low success rate of exit affairs. It also doesn't really bring up the possibility that the WS is to blame for any of the problems in the marriage. The amount of backpatting is also excessive enough that it actually got me to smile a bit (We get it, you're a good person that made some ugly choices. Don't stuff it down our throats). Actually, I'm sort of making the book sound like complete sh*t, aren't I?

 

I'm reading "Infidelity" by Dr Lusterman. It seems to be a more thoughtful book.

 

Hmmm, doesn't sound that balanced. While there is certainly a need (and, no doubt, a lucrative market) to make people involved or who were involved in affairs feel better about themselves, if this book doesn't balance that, in order to encourage the type of self-reflection that would stimulate taking responsibility and making different decisions in the future, it seems of limited lasting value. Sounds like a WS who is really interested in being capable of contributing to a successful, long term committed R, would need to move beyond this book, and delve into their own contribution to any problems, their poor choices, why they behaved that way and how they are going to change whether they stay in their M or develop a long term R with the AP or with someone new.

[donnamaybe]

Hmmm, doesn't sound that balanced. While there is certainly a need (and, no doubt, a lucrative market) to make people involved or who were involved in affairs feel better about themselves, if this book doesn't balance that, in order to encourage the type of self-reflection that would stimulate taking responsibility and making different decisions in the future, it seems of limited lasting value. Sounds like a WS who is really interested in being capable of contributing to a successful, long term committed R, would need to move beyond this book, and delve into their own contribution to any problems, their poor choices, why they behaved that way and how they are going to change whether they stay in their M or develop a long term R with the AP or with someone new.

 

Oh, but don't you get it? If you can convince yourself you have a good enough excuse, having an A is the right way to handle things.

[pureinheart]

This can be said about anything we do that goes against what we believe to be the right or wrong thing. Affairs don't have the standards market cornered.

[Severely Unamused]

Hmmm, doesn't sound that balanced.

 

I guess it doesn't.

 

But it's not like the book is subtly subverting people's minds or anything. My stbxH's brain is still a little bit addled up by all of the new medication, and he could still pick out the more questionable advice.

 

I haven't read this book but this whole thread makes me want to go buy the book.

Go ahead. Buy ten and give them to your friends. Spread the word.

 

See? I should work in marketing.

Edited December 11, 2011 by Severely Unamused

[donnamaybe]

This can be said about anything we do that goes against what we believe to be the right or wrong thing. Affairs don't have the standards market cornered.

 

But the title of the book in question is NOT "When good people kick their dog."

[bentnotbroken]

but the title of the book in question is not "when good people kick their dog."

 

 

ikr???........

[MissBee]

But the title of the book in question is NOT "When good people kick their dog."

 

I too felt like that goes without saying....we are talking about affairs so what's the point of bringing up, as your single point and not a reference, other "bad" things that aren't affair related. I don't get it...

 

We're all aware that many other bad things in the world exist and there are far worst human/moral offenses....but when discussing affairs, bringing up everything else and saying "Look, they are bad too" seems very suspicious or plainly it seems like a diversion tactic.

[pureinheart]

Please forgive me, I thought this was just another judgemental thread bashing AP's. My mistake as that never happens on this board....have fun all:)

[frozensprouts]

Please forgive me, I thought this was just another judgemental thread bashing AP's. My mistake as that never happens on this board....have fun all:)

 

 

 

that's pretty unfair...people were discussing their views, and a fair proportion of them didn't feel that they are "good things", and some felt that a person who was cheating was not being a "good person"...mind you, the discussion did get sidetracked, which maybe isn't a bad thing, as people brought up lots of interesting points for consideration.

 

but if people saying that they don't agree with something someone does, or that they don't think that people who engage in a particular activity are being 'good people" is "bashing" then i think that's casting a pretty wide net. just because one does not like an opinion that's been expressed in a polite and respectful way, this does not render said opinion "bashing"

[SoMovinOn]

I bet you are hot:D, You sound hot:D

 

Hmmm... if a person *sounds* hot, could they give you an eargasm?

[donnamaybe]

that's pretty unfair...people were discussing their views, and a fair proportion of them didn't feel that they are "good things", and some felt that a person who was cheating was not being a "good person"...mind you, the discussion did get sidetracked, which maybe isn't a bad thing, as people brought up lots of interesting points for consideration.

 

but if people saying that they don't agree with something someone does, or that they don't think that people who engage in a particular activity are being 'good people" is "bashing" then i think that's casting a pretty wide net. just because one does not like an opinion that's been expressed in a polite and respectful way, this does not render said opinion "bashing"

It moat likely hinges on what one wants to see when reading posts.

[alexandria35]

Hmmm... if a person *sounds* hot, could they give you an eargasm?

 

I think that's called phone sex. Maybe you two should exchange telephone numbers.

[worlybear]

I think it's clear from this thread that people who have had many affairs or who are actively in one that is hot and heavy, are the ones who easily can compare them to other misdeeds and see them as just another "not a big deal" thing.

Try that line on betrayed partners and children.

[bentnotbroken]

Please forgive me, I thought this was just another judgemental thread bashing AP's. My mistake as that never happens on this board....have fun all:)

 

 

Ahh, you left out the judgmental bashing of WS, BS, friends and family who get involved, clergy and counselors, parenting and....... Equal opportunity judgment and bashing don't you think?

[SoMovinOn]

I think that's called phone sex. Maybe you two should exchange telephone numbers.

 

I thought it was called a joke, but then, if you have to explain it...

[pureinheart]

???? what?

 

 

 

is this needed? why did you feel the need to post this? this was a very interesting thread and lots of views and opinions. if you did not like the way this thread was going, you could have easily clicked and ignored it.

 

 

 

 

You could have also...was this comment needed?

[donnamaybe]

You could have also...was this comment needed?

 

Probably not. Most of us were already thinking it anyway.

[findingnemo]

The book...it has a lot of practical applications which all sound good when read in isolation. If a MM wants out of his M, there are some good questions that would help him figure out why and how.

 

Here's my problem. IMO, most MMs who have As have DEFINATELY decided not to leave. I say this because if they'd made that decision there'd be no need to cheat. So the book claims to help one determine whether to stay or go, whether he/she loves the AP or the BS. It helps one consider the other practicalities including the real life effects on romance between M couples and how if one leaves the same scenario is very likely to play out in the new R. The advice ultimately leans more towards staying M and recognizing the GIGS factor.

 

One of the things advised if one wants to stay M is to never EVER disclose that one had an A. In other words, deny, deny, deny or if your BS is clueless lie, lie, and lie. The idea is that a BS will be an easier partner to have if he/she never knows you cheated. :sick: This advice caters to cake eaters mainly, IMO. If you don't disclose and figure out why you did what you did and obviously don't change whatever negatives made you feel unsatisfied, how the heck will you expect to stay faithful from here on out???? I don't get it.

 

In essence, MPs who have As want two different things and upon the commencement of the A made a choice that they'll stay M. That in itself is choosing to live a lie. However much people's circumstances vary one thing that remains constant is that to have an A, a MP must lie to both parties in some fashion or other. Deception is universally seen as morally wrong. No one wants to be lied to. Therefore lying is bad. So how can a "good" person who did something bad and continues to lie about it based on the book's advice still be "good"?

Edited December 13, 2011 by findingnemo

[findingnemo]

SMO,

 

I understand your predicament and I think that most posters do when they read your back story. You are articulate and quite balanced especially when posting responses to others. But I also have questions about your choices.

 

You chose to stay with your WW because of her issues. That in itself is kind to her. But you in effect also chose a "less than" life in terms of love which you know you can't get from her. There is no chance for a mutually loving R between the two of you. The problem is that you need to love and be loved. So this situation is bad for you, your heart, your soul. I'm talking emotionally.

 

You are also in love with a MW who is in a violent M and won't leave. You can't love her freely and the restrictions are painful to have.

 

In one situation, your M, you gain what? Whatever it is, is not enough. In the other, your A, you gain something but it is also partial. you are looking for answers and most people are saying that YOU are the answer. If you decide that you no longer want to live in half measures, only YOU can change that. Be kind to yourself first and leave your W. She won't die as a result and will most likely have to figure herself out. YOU will be free to love and be loved without subterfuge. As for the MW, when you are free and need her 100% she may be able to make her choice one way or the other. Freedom could make you want much more than what you're getting and make you decide whether to wait for her or move on.

 

Why are you doing this to yourself? That's the question.

 

I apologize for the t/j FF. I can't help but express my frustration at reading your views SMO, seeing that you are intelligent and able to out reason some of us but you are still in a bind. Don't respond if it's too personal. I just thought I'd tell you what I think. I'm a grey thinker for sure but this looks clear to me. Why is it not so clear to you?

Edited December 13, 2011 by findingnemo
Added apology

[MissBee]

SMO,

 

I understand your predicament and I think that most posters do when they read your back story. You are articulate and quite balanced especially when posting responses to others. But I also have questions about your choices.

 

You chose to stay with your WW because of her issues. That in itself is kind to her. But you in effect also chose a "less than" life in terms of love which you know you can't get from her. There is no chance for a mutually loving R between the two of you. The problem is that you need to love and be loved. So this situation is bad for you, your heart, your soul. I'm talking emotionally.

 

You are also in love with a MW who is in a violent M and won't leave. You can't love her freely and the restrictions are painful to have.

 

In one situation, your M, you gain what? Whatever it is, is not enough. In the other, your A, you gain something but it is also partial. you are looking for answers and most people are saying that YOU are the answer. If you decide that you no longer want to live in half measures, only YOU can change that. Be kind to yourself first and leave your W. She won't die as a result and will most likely have to figure herself out. YOU will be free to love and be loved without subterfuge. As for the MW, when you are free and need her 100% she may be able to make her choice one way or the other. Freedom could make you want much more than what you're getting and make you decide whether to wait for her or move on.

 

Why are you doing this to yourself? That's the question.

 

I apologize for the t/j FF. I can't help but express my frustration at reading your views SMO, seeing that you are intelligent and able to out reason some of us but you are still in a bind. Don't respond if it's too personal. I just thought I'd tell you what I think. I'm a grey thinker for sure but this looks clear to me. Why is it not so clear to you?

 

Great post Nemo!