Can long-time friends be lovers?

[Seeing only blanks]

Well, tell you the truth, I am glad others can see where it was is for them. I dont do not feel now or two weeks or two years would or can make a difference.

 

We have nothing in common or the desire. Id rather work on mly future alone and I really am losing any regard for him and realize its over.

 

Maybe I need to get my own litlle studio and a new boyfriend, man friend, this has been over for too long..

[Turn around?]

Sadly I am tired. I wasnt playihng games I want to move on.

 

Friends? Not even that any more. We have nothing in common, and now I have nothing left.

 

I tried he turned down any suggestion at every turn. He is free and I am done. Just as he has told me it is over and Get away fromn me, get out!

 

So I eventually quit trying and so did he.

[fiatflux]

I haven't read this whole thread, so maybe you've already done this: make a move on her, for goodness sake!!! Her saying "you would have so much fun being my boyfriend" is a clear invitation to get closer ... if it's not, then she's just teasing you for her own ego and she is using you. If you need some tips on how to get her ... go to http://www.fastseduction.com ... you don't have to subscribe to their philosophy of wanting to bed chicks fast. It's just eye-opening as far as how to take relationships to the next level if you're unsure of how to do that. One of the basic rules is to GET A LIFE separate from her (don't show such interest her every whim)...like people have been advising on this forum. You are just WAY TOO AVAILABLE for her!!

[ockey53]

Good tip. Great site.

[ockey53]

The past couple days I've been taking naps and sleeping over her place. No sex. Just sleeping on the same bed. The first couple times I didn't touch her, respecting her space and all that. If she wanted to be touched, she'd move. And she would get closer But today, I spooned her and hugged her around the stomach with her in front of me. It was the best feeling ever. I'm not sure if she noticed that I had my arm around her, cause I moved it after she was asleep (as far as I could see).

[fiatflux]

whoohoo! <high five>!!!! kino...that's the way to go.

[Ana]

No, actually ockey that is CREEPY.

 

If I woke up to find a friend had put his arm around me while I was asleep, I would be seriously upset and freaked out. You said it yourself - if she wanted physical contact she would have moved towards you. You knew she didn't, so you waited until she was asleep and not conscious of your actions. That is wacked.

 

I bet you imagine you were a couple as you were holding her. Stop holding onto a dream that will never become reality, you are deluded and it sounds like you are turning into a weirdo.

[sami]

Stop fooling yourself and behave like a responsible adult. Putting your hands around someone who is asleep is unacceptable by all means. This is not friendship. This is tresspassing over someone else's territory.

[emdeesea]

Dude - the girl does not like you the way you want her to like you. Behavior like this is NOT going to win her over. It's weird. Grow up.

[ockey53]

Yea, it was stupid ****. I shouldn't have done it. But I can't change the past, but I can change the future.

 

I found out today that she does not feel comfortable at all with me sleeping in the same bed with her. That alone is a good indicator that she does not like me like that. She doesn't feel secure or protected when she's with me. We've been getting into little petty arguements over nothing really. And like everyone has said before, I can't change her mind on her loving me.

[ockey53]

Apparently c r a p is a bad word... anyways. "yea, it was stupid to do" - corrected

 

Well, I guess now starts the process of backing off. This means no (or very little) massaging, no paying for gifts (some ok), no more flowers... I don't know what else.....

 

I guess there are 3 different reactions I can get from this.

1.) She hates it and thinks I am abandoning her and never speaks to me again.

2.) She doesn't like it and confronts me what is going on.

3.) She doesn't notice a change (but this will not happen so I'm not counting it).

3.) She misses the attention severely and comes back.

 

Whichever path it takes.... the friendship will not be the same (There's 2 negative and 1 positive outcomes). Even with #3, things will be awkward when she comes back and wants the attention again.

 

 

I really don't want to do this at all. It's just not me and I think it will tare us apart. I would really like to be a "normal friend" to her. Please help me with this. I know I won't be able to do it myself. I will do just about anything to stay friends with her in some way. She has been a HUGE part of my 21-year-old life that I have to spend more of it with her.

 

Recently, we've been seeing each other (hanging out for errands, dinner, chillin, gym time) everyday for a couple months now. The last thing I want to do is hurt her, she's going thru a lot of problems lately and I don't want her under any more stress than she is now...

[ockey53]

I know it's been a long time but here's what has happened.

 

She had a talk with me saying that she is unfortable with my jealousy for the guys that she talks to and dates. She treatened the end of our friendship (cause this has happened before). And "since we met as friends, that's all I see you as." She knew exactly how I was feeling and thing about her. Hit the nail right on the head! She told me that whether you want me and you're not showing it or you want to show me, your heart wants a relationship. She foresaw that I was doing stuff for her in hopes of a future relationship. She really likes me, but doesn't love me. She doesn't see me like that. She also said that there is no chance for a relationship now or in the future.

 

It really crushed me to hear this from the girl that I love from the deepest part of my heart. And obviously there's nothing I can do to make her change her mind. She still wants to be friends and loves the connection we have, but can't make a relationship out of it.

 

She told me that I made her previous boyfriends really jealous. Our emotional connection made all her bfs jealous. The fact that I was always with her, talking to her, having her pour her heart out to me... But at the same time I was extremely jealous of her bfs for the connection they had. The romantic connection that fills your soul with wantedness and fulfilment.

 

So I guess this is the end of my quest. I just gotta stop thinking about being with her in the future, while still being her friend. I have a feeling eventually our friendship will fall apart because of the unwantedness between us. Maybe this will show her what I really do and mean to her... but like she says, it won't come of anything.... Oh well.

 

I'm done.

[Curt]

I think I would end the friendship now.

 

I don't know that I could continue being such close friends with someone, while at a very tangible level wanting them romantically.

 

Your choice of course, but... that's my take on it all.

 

Curt

[dbs]

ok man I dont want to sound like a jerk but your being a little bitch, I feeel sorry for you now your acting so desperate why arent you taking the advice of some of the smarter ppl here, you should have backed off a long time ago, your basiclly her little man slave damn your doin all the boyfriend stuff and your getting no nookie, you should think logicaly for a second maybe that would help

[exotic_angel]

hey buddy

GOT FOR IT!! u've got the perfect best friend.. jus make sure t doens't turn into a FWB casue i've been there, actually i'm still there.. lol.. my FWB and i were jus as close an stuff happened..

anyway.. tell her how u feel subtly ..

[ockey53]

yea, she's also said if anything was going to happen, it would have happened by now... She also uses the excuse "because you're my friend" a lot lately. Like I'll make a perverted joke and she'll say that she didn't expect that from me....

 

I don't really understand her anymore. She likes all these guys that don't give her the attention she wants and I'm here doing handstands to make her say "it's because we're friends..."

 

She text me today saying "thanks for being my friend." Probably cause I'm there to have her lash out her guy problems at. I'm the friend she tells everything to. She's cried in my arms many times, she asks all those "what if" and "what is he thinking?" questions.

 

But I'm gonna stick by her. We're going to Miami in 2 weeks to do some photoshoots and a car show. We'll be staying for 4 days, 4 nights. Nothing like seeing the girl you're in love with in lingerie and taking pictures of her (but not being able to do anything with her).

[Flying Goose]

Haven't really read the entire thread, but just a few comments:

 

1) You're too close - the more time you spend with her, the less special that time is (for the both of you)

2) You need her - always a bad position to be in, to need anyone (even your parents!). This makes you entirely vulnerable to their actions, and makes you an unstable character

3) She does not want a romantic relationship with you at the moment - which means, if YOU want a romatic relationship, you must understand that that YOUR logic is flawed. Relationships only work when all parties share the same intent - want the same thing. If you want more than she does, then you're fantasising and need to snap back to reality - i.e. what you want could not possibly work at this point in time. If you really want her to 'change' her mind per se, then you must model her mind, devise a strategy to manipulate it and execute it. I.e. you have to play games and use her own mind against her. You can do what other people have suggested - use an all-or-nothing approach. You can try your own way, or whatever you deem most appropriate. However, likelihood is if you don't plan what you're doing, you will not succeed as you will be letting your emotions (simple, flawed logic systems) decide most of your actions.

 

I think it's important for you to ask yourself "what do I want?". Are you sure it's a relationship you want? If so, why? What would be different between then and now? That you'd be sexually involved? That she'd be 'exclusively' yours? That she would like you wholely and completely? If you really want to go down that line, then you need to PLAN. No way around it. All-or-nothing? Date others to inject jealousy into the mix? Interact less with her friendship groups and more with independent groups to show independence? If you just carry on as you are, nothing will change because you have not changed anything. Input=output. No change in input=no change in output.

 

Finally, a final point that is probably more important than the other 3 is: you've wasted time. Hesitation about what you want, can bear to lose, will accept, etc has meant you've spent more than a year on the same problem. That's very inefficient under any circumstance. Perhaps what you can learn from this is: if you want a relationship, decide early on, make plans and execute them such that you get a response as soon as is practically possible. That way you don't waste your time/emotions on meaningless pursuits. Make sure you decide what you want quickly - this is something girls do better in general. They see someone new and immediately assess what they want/could want/would want from that person. Hence the deal with first impressions.

 

As for your current situation. Perhaps you can use it as an exercise of your resolve. If you feel you need her, make sure you don't. It's unhealthy to need things that have as much power as people. Decide what you want. Be clear in this - no vagueness; you either want a friend or a 'lover' - as that's how she obviously sees people. If you want a relationship, would you want to be the last guy that she comes to when all other options have been exhausted? Or would you want to be the first, the one and only? How do you think a relationship would work - how would you get over the bs you've been through so far? It's actually a lot harder than your emotions might let you think.

[Curt]

I believe that the post above, is perhaps the most intelligent response that has been on this thread so far.

 

Follow the advice above. It's as close to fact and reality as one will get.

 

Kudos Goose!

 

Curt

[ockey53]

thanks for the advice one and all

 

here's a challenging question for you...

 

I have been invited to go to spring break with her and 4 other of her friends that I know. The other 4 are 2 guys and 2 girls, both couples. That would leave us 2 singles to go. The place also throws a little spin in there.... Costa Rica! She asked me yesterday if I wanted to go.... but I was hesistant on answering.

 

I would feel awkward being single around the woman I love in another country. Although I have done this before. Her and I went to the Bahamas for a week in January. We shared a king size bed, but she really didn't like that so she separated us with pillows. We did a lot of fun stuff while we were there, but the primary focus of the day was photoshoots. This would also hold true in Costa Rica.

 

I don't know what to do... I don't want to lead myself on, but I do want to go to share the good times with her. It's a real tossup....

[FsuBA34]

Since you responded when I was going through something like this earlier this summer Ockey, i figure I owe you one since i've recently come back to the site.

 

Suggestion: Whatever you do, DO NOT GO ON SPRING BREAK WITH HER. You will be absolutely miserable. What happens when she decides to "seperate" the two of you with pillows again? You'll be in another country with a girl that's not in to you, and two other couples, leaving you all alone having spent a ****load of money on a trip. I'm not saying this is certainly going to happen, but from what i've read, it probably will. Save yourself the potential heartache and use the money and join a gym (in the 6 months since i wrote my story about my best friend i took the time to lose 35 pounds and trust me, she noticed. you don't have to be 100% buff, but at least make an effort, she's respect you for it).

 

Suggestion 2: Competely stop buying anything for her. Period. If she respects you enough as a friend, she'll want your company, not your money's company. I eventually decided to "discontinue" my friendship with my best friend of two and a half years because i told her i couldn't handle acting like a boyfriend to her and trying to find a girlfriend at the sametime. (she misunderstood because i wasn't 100% clear on my feelings, which i have recently attempted to set straight, but that's another story). Well, we started talking again finally and after buying some roses (cost me like $4) and telling her I loved her and her telling me she loved me, but she had a boyfriend (again, another story for another day) I completely stopped buying anything for her. I stopped offering things, i made her respect me. We recently got into a fight because i've been having people take her home for me on nights we go out, and she doesn't understand why (read: because i'd done it for years and suddenly stopped, now she has to actually respect me and doesn't know what to do).

 

Suggestion 3: Flirt like crazy. With her, with other girls in front of her, just do anything you can. Be cocky, but be funny also. If you say something that comes across as mean, who cares? You know you're kididng, by now she'll know your kidding if she knows you well enough, and suddenly she'll be intrigued. (read: I started doing this to my best friend, and she's been going nuts over it. she jokingly asked me the last time i saw her "why are you being such a turd?" and hit me and was constantly touching me that night) If your friend starts getting on you about wanting her, flip the script on her "be like yeah I know you're saying that because you secretly want me, it's ok I can handle it". If you're afraid you have a bad sense of humor, buy the Simpsons DVD season 4. That whole season will teach all you need to know about satire.

 

Suggestion 4: Make her call you. Don't be the first one to constantly call, ie: be a challenge. If she says call me tommorrow, text message her in two days. Just don't do exactly what she says. Girls love this stupid mind game ****. Don't think you're above it, because your not (I thought i was, but i've realized this is the only way to make it work). Just be original. If this girl's a model, how many million guys have told her how hot she or bought her things or took her somewhere. But if you bust her balls a little, suddenly she's intrigued "I thought he wanted me? He doesn't want me anymore? Why?" and it'll make her want you more.

 

 

I can't really tell you how to do anymore, you've got to put your own spin on it. If she responds to any of this, you've got a chance of taking it farther (I'm waiting to hear back from my friend on a lengthy email i sent her regarding the fight we got in like a week and a half ago over me having someone else drop her off) if not, i'd suggest just walk away from the friendship. You're only gonna agonize yourself to death wtih this (i've come to the realization in my same situation) and the odds of your friendship staying similar are remote (unless you keep buying her stuff, which no girl will run from). If you walk away without giving any explanation, that will also make her respect you more. It's tough man, but like the others have said, you've got change what you're doing if you expect a change from her. Good luck.

[ockey53]

Suggestion 1: I can't use the excuse for spending too much money - I went to the Bahamas and spent a good $1500 on the trip. I mean I can use it, but I don't know any more.... P.S. I have a free gym membership thru my college and I go everyday. I've burned off a few pounds, but still working on it....

 

Suggestion 2: I can do this. Lately it's just been meals, $10, $20 meals here and there. But I got Christmas coming up and I got her some books, but that's it'. Nothing extravagant. As she says "She likes the little things more than the big things."

 

Suggestion 3: I do all the time. In fact I got a little story from last night at dinner. Her friends (that are asian girls, like her) call her "twinkie." It's a name they throw back and forth meaning yellow on the outside and white on the inside. So I said in a perverted response saying that she had 3 nipples and I wanted to see them (the 3 holes on the bottom of the twinkie). She was laughing and blushing and then argued that they weren't nipples, but holes. But whatever... I flirt with her a lot. Sometimes she says "I don't expect you to be perverted cause you're my friend" and other times she laughs and chuckles. It's mixed, I don't quite know which way she means...

 

Suggestion 4: I've started to do this. Let her IM/text/call me. Usually we don't say "call ya lata" cause we see each other everyday. But I'll work on this too.

 

I say if the trip isn't that much, I should go, flirt with her, and show her friends how much of a boyfriend I can be to her. And hopefully they'll say "Why aren't you two going out?"

 

P.S. Thank you so much FsuBA34!!

[tokyo]

Don´t go to the Bahamas. Period. Stop letting her put you in the friend category all the time. She knows you are a great friend already, so stop doing it or she´ll never stop seeing you as a friend only. Even if it does sound cruel to her or yourself, you have to do it if you want to succeed.

 

Books as gifts are enough. Tell you what, a girl who let´s a guy buy her gifts and does all these things for her without even considering if he was boyfriend material or not is not the really the kind of girl I would like to date. I have extreme difficulties to accept presents and extra favors from guys if I know they fancy me. In my eyes it looks as if they can buy me which is not the case. Your girlfriend is one of the high maintenace girls and I´m not sure if you would be happy with her. Right now I think what you like are her looks with a touch of friendship. I wonder if you would do that much for her if she was less attractive. If you would still consider her to be so great. As far as I can see I find this behavior of hers acceptin your presence, sleeping in the same bed, etc. to be crappy. A woman who let´s a guy sleep next to her and who does not realize that how much he is suffering because he´s in love with her is not existing.

 

Back off. If she is not backing off seeing you being in love with her, she is playing and you are not going to win if you continue to play her game. I also don´t think this has anything to do with bad experiences in the past with her friend-turned-boyfriend-idiot.

[ockey53]

This past week, we've been busy and haven't really seen each other much. But I did get to see her Wednesday night. We caught up on the past couple days and went back and took a little nap (nothing out of the ordinary) and then I gave her a leg rub and foot massage to put her to sleep. She really appreciated it because it has been a while.

 

It seems that the talks w have are better and more enjoyable. She seemed to really appreciate the time that we spent together more, because we weren't able to meet up for a couple of days.

 

P.S. Happy Thanksgiving!

[ockey53]

So this week has been awesome with her. Thursday we went to the tree lighting in Boston together. Got there just in time, "10! 9! 8!..." was when we got there. And then walked all the way down Commonwealth where every tree was lit with lights for 3 miles. It was great. Than we went to the gym friday and sunday. Today we did laundry together (actually, right now we're doing laundry). She's sleeping on my bed as we speak.

 

She made a comment about me sleeping on her bed, that she doesn't like it cause the bed seems like me and then she can't get to sleep at night.... whatever.

 

Thursday we leave for Miami, and she's real excited. She's already half packed and ready to go. I can't wait myself... but let's see what happens...

[tokyo]

I´m sorry, but I think you are up for pain. You´re too much in love now to fully grasp anything that people tell you here, but maybe one day you can look back and get a better understanding of the things people told you and maybe try to follow the advices. Right now I think you are making a fool out of yourself for her. Of course, she appreciates the advantages of having a boyfriend do everything for her, but that´s it. You are not advancing in any way. Maybe you´ll get if after she has her third, forth new boyfriend, but until then, I just see you as being her little slave and this will surely not make her change her mind. Just because someone is loving and caring does not necessarily make people fall in love with them. Some will, some won´t. From your post I see you as someone who is too eager to please, who will take any crap to be near her. This is boring. You´re her best male friend, the gay friend every woman wants, but will never fall in love with. If you want her, you should change your tactics. If she really liked you for your sweetness and gentleness she would have fallen in love with you already, but did she? NO. Why not? Because this is not everything she is looking for. People have told you to make yourself a bit more unavailable and be more independent, more difficult to predict. I would try this. To be honest, I don´t think you will, you look like a lost case..... *sigh*