Not willing to compromise on this

[The Blue Knight]

So do you think I am being a jerk by not backing down on this? Would you guys just give in to keep peace with your wife? I feel very strongly about this and really don't want my kids anywhere near this crazy woman.

 

Royale, I'll give you some advise based on years in law enforcement dealing with the crazy relatives as well as just crazies in general, and like you, I have crazy sister myself, except mine is biologically attached.

 

My sister isn't a drunk but she's a drama queen and 50% of all family get-togethers end up with her flaming up about something. Haven't seen her in two years because we're just tired of it. But that's a different story.

 

What I'd do Royale is this. Tell your wife to meet you half way. Get her to agree that you'll go and bring the kids, BUT if there is any misbehavior or drama from her sister, you and the kids are out the door. Tell her that for you, this is coming half way.

 

I get where you're at. Believe me I do. But it's not worth crushing your wife's feelings and having her hold onto this going into the later holidays next month.

 

And let's be honest. You're used to sex 3 to 4 times a week with a woman who comes to bed without any clothing. How long can you really go without?

 

But back to being serious. That would be my approach. Your wife's thesis that family sticks by family is nonsense. Family love is reciprocal. You give it and you get it back. That's how it works. Family also treats it's own well and is respectful at all times which her sister hasn't lived up too, and her sister has a history of bringing unneeded drama to family events. So it's the sister who needs to learn to behave differently around family, not you.

 

Your wife needs to respect the fact that you don't want the kids around it and that you don't want to be around it. So ask her if that's a fair approach and if she's willing to live up to it if you go. If the sister does act up and cross the line. Don't make a scene, just quietly get the kids together and head out. You did your part at that point.

[The Blue Knight]

OMG..why does everyone act like children are hothouse flowers?

 

They have an aunt whose a crazy drunk. That's life. It happens. I think Royale is REALLY exaggerating just to prove his point because now, he just wants to be RIGHT. This crazy woman has managed to LIVE for all these years, yet she just might 'off' herself - THAT DAY - at the dinner table because 80% of her kind off themselves.

 

Oh brother.

 

Dear old dad has had guns in the house all these years, but it's THAT DAY that the crazy sister is going to pick the lock on the gun cabinet and have herself an old fashioned shoot-out at the OK Corral. Alrighty, then.

 

Your wife should just go to her parent's house by herself. You and the kids can heat up Hungry Man Turkey Dinners and barricade yourselves in the living room just in case a crazy homeless person knocks on your door looking for a scrap to eat. What nonsense.

 

That's life? It happens? So this guy is just supposed to deal with it endlessly? No burden on the crazy drunk sister to change. It's all on Royale right? It kills me when the rational person who is trying to avoid the problems in the first place gets blamed for the problem in the first place.

 

Royale doesn't have point to prove. If you read his posting he's had a great 20 year marriage and gives his wife what she asks for. He even said this is unusual for him to stand his ground and be firm on something like this.

 

Just to bring you up to speed Older / Wiser suicides and depression go up tremendously this time of year. The sister in law already has a history of suicide attempts. Its' reasonable for him to be concerned about his family under these circumstances.

[The Blue Knight]

We are staying home. My wife went shopping today for dinner.

 

I know some of you guys think I'm exaggerating, but I'm really not. All the cousins, aunts, uncles and other extended family has been staying away for years. Her ex-husband had to move across country to keep their kid away from it. Besides her parents, we are the last ones standing. There is a reason for this. She is crazy.

 

QuantumWeapon you are off base. My wife was genuinely upset and not trying to blackmail me. I am hardly a pushover. There have been plenty of times in our marriage that I have made decisions for my family. I don't let anyone walk all over me, but I do try to be reasonable and compromise. My wife knows she can't walk all over me.

 

She had a lot on her mind, so she wasn't in mood for sex. After all these years, she has the right to not be in the mood. She was worrying about her family. She felt terrible about her parents. She wasn't denying me sex. She just wasn't being frisky like she always is. We take care of each other nicely on the sex front. There have never been any signs that she's cheated and I trust her. She still wants me, kisses me, does nice things for me and is never sneaky about anything. If she ever cheated we would be divorced and she knows that.

 

She's not wrapped up in her crazy family, either. We see them once a month, tops. She just wants her parents to be happy. They have a lot on their plate with her sister. She doesn't want to add to that by causing more problems. .

 

As for calling the police if the sister in law acts up, we have done it. She knows how to work the system, though. She knows the right things to say to get let out of the 72 hour hold. The mental health system is not what it used to be. They want to push people out instead of locking them up. Their families try to deal as long as they can, and many end up homeless once their families have had enough.

 

Have a great holiday.

 

It's great you found a compromise and that your wife came around. Happy Thanksgiving! Hopefully you guys can continue in a positive direction where the sister in law is concerned.

[The Blue Knight]

Also Royale, you need to beware, if she has spent the past week escalating the dispute, denying sex and otherwise trying to blackmail you, and all of a sudden has changed her tune, it doesn't mean you've "won."

 

It means she's changed strategy from "direct confrontation" to "indirect."

 

Women simply don't give up that easy--not a woman willing to deny both you, and herself, any physical or emotional intimacy simply in order to win an argument with the spouse.

 

You may have won this battle but since you haven't seem to have resolved the underlying conflict in your relationship (which obviously requires counseling/therapy--her family history as well as her use of emotional blackmail demands therapy), she will just go underground with her resentments and undermine you in a more or less indirect manner.

 

Women like your wife end up cheating on their husbands who are clueless to the wife's resentment. The wife gets a boyfriend, cheats, and all of a sudden walks out on the marriage, even if their are children--the husband is left mystified.

 

If this happens five years from now, she will turn to you and say: "I knew on Thanksgiving 2011 that you never really loved me because you denied me seeing my family. You knew how much that meant to me but you were cruel and heartless and abusive, a big bully, and you forced me to give in to you. Since you never really loved me as proven by that incident, that made it OK for me to cheat on you."

 

Sorry Royale but this is how women like your wife process this stuff.

 

 

 

 

Your wife is a manipulator. Your marriage is "OK" as long as you compromise or give in to her manipulation. Otherwise it is not OK. Take off the blinders Royale. You wouldn't be posting this on the internet if you really had a "great" marriage. Your wife wouldn't cut off all sex and intimacy for over a week over her crazy sister if you had a "great" marriage.

 

Your wife's family is sick and in need of therapy and you have participated in that sickness for as long as you have been married to her. You are finally upsetting the applecart of the family dynamic and want to believe there will be no repercussions.

 

I think you know better, though.

 

Amazing how much insight you have into this man, his wife, and his marriage. Just amazing.

[AIC]

Royale to me you sound pretty reasonable. I think you are acting quite reasonably and anyway why does 'being family' mean you have to put up with a nutcase in your life?

 

I don't get the whole molested thing ruining the rest of your life. I got kicked out of home at 11 years old and whilst I'm not perfect I am able to act civilised 99.9% of the time and I'd never do anything like the stuff you've described here.

 

Sleazy coming on to you behind your wife's back is on it's own enough for me to outcast someone for life. Shows no morals or character. Talking about hearing the wife and I having sex? That's the behaviour of a disgusting weirdo vermin piece of crap.

 

If my brother came on to my wife it would be relationship ending for my brother and I.

 

I am proud of the moral standards that I live my life by. I'm sure some idiot reading this will say yeah sure hitler but I'm no prude or control freak and if I stuff up I put my hand up and say I'm sorry I stuffed up. Blame shifting is rife these days. Reality is some people are just weak and have no moral backbone. I say you make your own life what it is and everyone needs to take more responsibility for their own actions instead of trying to blame others.

 

Good luck I hope you and your wife can find happy ground through all this.

[in_absentia]

Royale, I am glad that your wife agreed to stay home.

This is the way I see these things. For an adult in full activity, holidays are those moments where you can chill and relax. You need them to fill your "tank". Any element that can spoil them should be avoided.

I don't see my family anymore because every meeting with them was stressful and unpleasant.

 

On a side note, I do agree with sadintexas that the remark about not having dinner. That makes you sound a bit like a Stepford man. You surely can put a pizza in the oven, can you.

 

Have a great peaceful holiday.

 

Funnily enough, I took the comment about 'what will we do for dinner' in another way, I saw it more like Thanksgiving dinner has a symbolic significance to him and he doesn't want the holidays ruined so it makes sense to worry about the main event not being spoiled for everybody. I'm in the UK so I don't know how strongly you USA guys feel about it but I imagine it's similar to one of us Brits missing Christmas dinner. Just my two pence anyway.

[Royale w/ Cheese]

in_absentia. You are correct. I didn't mean to sound inconsiderate in my "dinner" comment, but they are almost an hour away and going there, then having to leave and come back would affect our holiday. Cooking is an all day thing. I don't want frozen pizza on Thanksgiving. I want my wife and my kids together at the table with a good meal. If that makes me an ass then so be it. I'm traditional about some things.

 

We did stay home on Thanksgiving. We had great food, our football team won and even my wife said it was nice to just enjoy the day without any drama. At my in laws, things were relatively calm with just some arguing going on there.

 

How did I get my wife to lighten up on this? We talked about all the holidays, get togethers and vacations that my sister in law has ruined or altered over the years. I repeated all of the dangerous things she's done. I told my wife that its my job to protect my family and kids and I got her to see it from a safety standpoint. I told her that if no major incidents happen this year that we can go next year. I may even reconsider at Easter if things are OK. What helped most of all was just giving her time to let it sink in. In other words, after a few days she got over it. Once the stress of telling her parents was over her mood lifted.

 

I don't view my wife being down & sad for a week as manipulating. She had reasons to be upset about this. She has never used sex as a weapon in our marriage. However, there have been times when she is sick, upset or worried about something that affects her desire. I don't see that as a manipulation. She just wasn't horny. We have always had regular sex together and it's much more fun if shes horny so I'll wait. She's back to her old self again and doesn't seem like she is holding this against me as a resentment. It hasn't changed the way she is with me sexually.

 

I accept that her emotions may affect her sex drive. My acceptance of that isn't going to change my behavior or my stance on things like this, but that's just her. She has the right to not want sex when she is stressed just like she doesn't feel like working out or painting (her hobby). She still loves sex with me and makes it a priority. There have been times in my life when I was sick, angry or grieving that killed my desire for a few days so I can understand that. Quantum, for you to say that my marriage is in trouble because me and my wife didn't have sex for a week is crazy. I read on this forum all the men who don't have sex with their wives and I see how fortunate I am because she is in the mood 90% of the time. Even when she is on her period she has other stuff she does for me and I don't even ask she just wants to.

 

Quantum, I guess you have been hurt by women but not all women are evil and scheming. There is not aways an ulterior motive and tears are not always manipulation games. In twenty years if my wife was as you described, I would have seen a sign before now. There are still good women out there. She is agreeable and goes with the flow on most things. But she is a person and has a right to feel what she feels even if I do not agree. If you are right and she was attempting to manipulate me, it didn't work. I decided to ask advice on a message board because I wanted to know if I was being unreasonable. Her emotional reaction did cause me to question my decision, and I wanted to see what others would do in this situation.

 

Her family is messed up but she can see that. She is conflicted because she loves them very much, but knows they aren't good for her. Her parents are overwhelmed and my wife wants them to be happy. She told me she wants to detach from her sister but not her parents. This will be difficult because they live in the same house. We have some work to do on this issue and I am considerate of her feelings but will not change my stance about her sister without a lot of time going by. She cares about them, even though they are dysfunctional. Telling them "no" is hard for her but she recognizes it and "wants to be more assertive with them" (her words). I think this may take time and patience but I am in this for the long haul.

 

I hope you guys had a great holiday and thanks for taking the time to post.

[Woggle]

I am glad everything went well and I also agree that your wife was not trying to be mean. She grew up with her sister and even though deep down she probably knows she is a trainwreck it is hard to accept.

[xxoo]

Great update, Royale!

 

I'm glad you can allow your wife to have natural emotions, work through them, and not interpret them as manipulation or an attack on you. It sounds like you kept talking to each other, and worked through it together.

 

Happy holidays!

[The Blue Knight]

Quantum, for you to say that my marriage is in trouble because me and my wife didn't have sex for a week is crazy. I read on this forum all the men who don't have sex with their wives and I see how fortunate I am because she is in the mood 90% of the time. Even when she is on her period she has other stuff she does for me and I don't even ask she just wants to.

 

Quantum, I guess you have been hurt by women but not all women are evil and scheming. There is not aways an ulterior motive and tears are not always manipulation games. In twenty years if my wife was as you described, I would have seen a sign before now. There are still good women out there. She is agreeable and goes with the flow on most things. But she is a person and has a right to feel what she feels even if I do not agree. If you are right and she was attempting to manipulate me, it didn't work. I decided to ask advice on a message board because I wanted to know if I was being unreasonable. Her emotional reaction did cause me to question my decision, and I wanted to see what others would do in this situation.

 

Royale, I think if you take the time to read some of Quantum's remarks to others, he's a bit over-the-top in the advise column. Everything has a "dire" feeling to it and there are "extreme" relationships to everything he posts. For most of us, we just saw you as a guy in a good marriage with a stumbling block over this one issue. For him, your marriage was on the rocks and it was all falling apart.

 

I'm glad you guys worked through it and it was a good lesson for your wife. Hopefully it will empower her in the future to be able to stand with you on the issue should it come up again down the road. It might also cause the parents of your SIL to rethink having the nutty sister around given that she's repelling the rest of the family.

[Nikki82]

QuantumWeapon - You take so much time and effort into arguing this guy that I'm starting to wonder if you personally know him!!!

 

However, you do have the same point that I was thinking about, and that is the fact that the OP originally says that his wife cut off sex and ANY affection. He said that she'd sleep with her back to him and suddenly was wearing clothes to bed when she is normally naked.

 

Yet, now he tries to say that she was not doing this out of some sort of punishment or putting up a wall (instead of talking).

[Royale w/ Cheese]

She did apologize for initially blaming me and said she feels depressed that her family is so f*cked up. She said she felt torn and didn't know how to handle the pressure from her family. She said she just didn't feel like doing anything, not kissing, sex, cooking, working out, playing with the kids, shopping, etc.

 

I don't know, Quantum. My wife isn't perfect but I think this is more about getting wrapped up in her feelings than manipulation. She was being selfish, not manipulative.

 

My wife doesn't have to be happy, smiling ,affectionate for me all the time. 90% of the time is Ok for me. If she's in a bad mood, I let her feel it. She lets me have my bad moods too. I don't want a fake wife that pretends, I want a real wife. If she is not in the mood to be affectionate, I don't want her to fake it for my benefit. I'll let her feel the emotions and think about it and her affection returned when she was ready.

 

She said to never think it's to hurt me, she just was not motivated or enthusiastic about anything.

 

If she stayed in a bad mood for weeks on end I would have a problem, but situations that upset her are few and far between.

 

We don't have a perfect marriage but we do love each other. We both have flaws and she withdraws when she is feeling upset about something. There could be worse things and this woman has been by my side since high school. This mini depression didn't last long and although she is still sad about her family, she seems to accept that we need boundaries with them.

[whichwayisup]

At the least you should seriously consider laying down a rule where there are no more family visits until your wife gets some therapy so she can learn how to handle her family in a more constructive way.

 

Huh???? Enough said.

 

I told her that if no major incidents happen this year that we can go next year. I may even reconsider at Easter if things are OK

 

Royale, I think this is a reasonable compromise. If her sister can go a while without incidents, then visiting the family over various holidays in the future is a good idea. Though, maybe a drop in visit for an hour would be a good place to start, see how things go. It doesn't have to be meal orinated either, drop in for coffee and cake or something simple.

 

Your wife is doing the best she can and sure, there's room for change in how she handles things and reacts to them, nobody is perfect. Just hear eachother out, with respect..And without the drama.