Candid conversation with the Waywards

[Lilith Crane]

Dear LS Waywards:

 

It must be exhausting and frustrating for you to see pages upon pages of posts where the BS and AP are trying to sort out what the WS could possibly be thinking; especially, when you're the only ones who really know for sure. You're the only ones who live the entire experience. Only you are privy to every emotion, every conversation and every detail.

 

 

So, how about a little help?

• What's a typical day in the life like for the WS when the affair is going strong?
  
• What do you experience at d-day and in the aftermath?
  
• Do you ever want to reach out to the one you left behind?
  

I know any WS brave enough to give an honest reply will be hugely appreciated by BS and AP alike.

 

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

 

Sincerely,

 

Lilith

[SBC]

LC, this thread sounds like you are hoping to hear that the WS is miserable after D-Day and that yes, he misses you desperately. In my opinion, this is not helpful. It may feel good for a moment while you read it, but it does nothing to help you move on.

 

There are no typical days in the life of a MM after D-day. Everyone and everything is different in every situation. So, even if one MM or MW says something about what was typical in their life post D-day does not necessarily equate to your situation,or anyone else's.

 

If it is over, let it be over, and don't worry about what he is thinking or feeling. Try (i know its hard) to focus on what you have in your life right now that can grow and thrive under the care and attention you are giving to this situation.

[Lilith Crane]

You give such good advice! I am all about letting it be over and focusing on ME right now. I have no hopes insofar as my xMM is concerned. That's actually why I feel strong enough to hear about other's real life experiences.

 

You see, I believe I have read all the way to the end of the internet twice! All that's out there is the BS and AP giving long explanations of what happnened to us and how crushed we are about it. The few WS who do reply are expected to be robotic in their answers about how remorseful they are and how dedicated they will be to fix things and atone and make everyone happy - no matter who they "choose".

 

I think it is beneficial to have a more complete view of things.

 

If we took the time to LISTEN, maybe we could all save ourselves some of the why, why, why type feelings.

 

Most importantly, I genuinely want to hear what has happened from the WS point of view as it really happened.

 

I don't know what to expect, but I hope some WS will want to share with me and help me learn.

 

I DO KNOW that I don't want them shut down for their opinions or veered off topic.

 

This thread REALLY IS meant for us to listen them.

[Lemon Drop]

Yes, Lilith, I'd like to know this too. Also, if you volunteered your A to your BS, what was that like? I'd also like to know how a D-day went.... fly on the wall type of things. Thank you.

[jayinblue]

Hi Lilith,

 

I think all experiences are different, but here's mine. I was a wayward spouse, married for 5 hrs. By the time my affair happened, my marriage was in deep trouble. My wife and I hadn't been physically intimate with any regularity (we were intimate twice in a 3 year period). I think I somehow convinced myself that this was my life and it was what it was. My AP was a friend I had known for a couple of years.

 

It am not proud of getting into the affair, so the remorse / guilt, etc is not a joke. Even when the affair was going on, no matter how happy I was in the moment, there was always the guilt lying behind it. But this guilt too was contrasted with powerful feelings of love and attraction. I think it must be like what drug addicts go through. You find yourself needing your AP, like you haven't needed anything else.

 

So a typical day involves doing your "normal" life, but getting your fix from your secret friend. I used to text like 30 times a day with her. I felt (rightly or wrongly) that this was someone who just got me, through and through. Combine these feelings with the lack of physical intimacy and you can see what I mean about the capital "N" need.

 

Somehow you come up with justifications to make it okay, my wife isn't good enough, no one will get hurt, it's not fair, etc. No matter how careful you think you are, something always gets left behind, you pull back from your spouse, and then d day happens.

 

D day I suppose is different for everyone, but mine was like a nuclear bomb, wrapped in another nuclear bomb, covered in dynamite. If you as the WS are ordinarily thought of as a good person, that all changes. You friends, family, etc try to be supportive, but all wonder what the heck you were thinking. Most think you've gone crazy. The guilt that sets in is tremendous. You realize how much you have hurt your spouse, and lots of others too, as sometimes your mistakes remind others of theirs, and if you have extended families, your spouse's family and yours tend to pull to their own respective camps.

 

So you do the "right" thing and end it, then go back, then end it again. You miss the AP, you miss your wife, you miss your old life before all this junk came out. I am not a crier, but I can honestly say I have never cried so much in my whole life. Once you make the split from your AP, you get some outside support for doing the right thing, but internally, you're all screwed up and now can't talk to someone who you previously were so connected to and needed so badly.

 

The first 4 months are all tears. It gets better after that. I am trying hard to fix my marriage or end it responsibly, which I should have done before.

 

I've been no contact with the AP, because I desperately want to fix my marriage. All of the old problems in the marriage are still there, multiplied 1000x due to the affair. As guilty as I feel admitting this, I still think of this other person, almost daily. She reached out a few times, but I said nothing back. She has moved on and is seeing others, and probably thinks I don't care. That hurts too, I wish I could sit down and share all of this stuff going on with her again, but I won't. It's too painful, and it would totally end any chance of my marriage surviving, and end any chance at a reasonable relationship with my wife if it does end.

 

Sorry for the ramble, but that's kinda how it feels from my end. Having said all of that, NC is still totally the way to go. Your WS made the choice, and until he's single isn't going to back off of it. I still miss (and have feelings for) my AP, but I won't contact her because of all of the confusion it would bring. You and your AP deserve to be in relationships where you are both available to your partner and they're available to you. Close the book on your end and get yourself happier, get some exercise, and find reasons to enjoy being in your life that don't involve this other person. It will get better eventually, I promise.

Edited December 1, 2011 by jayinblue

[imperfectangel]

Jayinblue thanks for that post helped me a lot x

[heartinlove]

Hi Lilith,

 

I think all experiences are different, but here's mine. I was a wayward spouse, married for 5 hrs. By the time my affair happened, my marriage was in deep trouble. My wife and I hadn't been physically intimate with any regularity (we were intimate twice in a 3 year period). I think I somehow convinced myself that this was my life and it was what it was. My AP was a friend I had known for a couple of years.

 

It am not proud of getting into the affair, so the remorse / guilt, etc is not a joke. Even when the affair was going on, no matter how happy I was in the moment, there was always the guilt lying behind it. But this guilt too was contrasted with powerful feelings of love and attraction. I think it must be like what drug addicts go through. You find yourself needing your AP, like you haven't needed anything else.

 

So a typical day involves doing your "normal" life, but getting your fix from your secret friend. I used to text like 30 times a day with her. I felt (rightly or wrongly) that this was someone who just got me, through and through. Combine these feelings with the lack of physical intimacy and you can see what I mean about the capital "N" need.

 

Somehow you come up with justifications to make it okay, my wife isn't good enough, no one will get hurt, it's not fair, etc. No matter how careful you think you are, something always gets left behind, you pull back from your spouse, and then d day happens.

 

D day I suppose is different for everyone, but mine was like a nuclear bomb, wrapped in another nuclear bomb, covered in dynamite. If you as the WS are ordinarily thought of as a good person, that all changes. You friends, family, etc try to be supportive, but all wonder what the heck you were thinking. Most think you've gone crazy. The guilt that sets in is tremendous. You realize how much you have hurt your spouse, and lots of others too, as sometimes your mistakes remind others of theirs, and if you have extended families, your spouse's family and yours tend to pull to their own respective camps.

 

So you do the "right" thing and end it, then go back, then end it again. You miss the AP, you miss your wife, you miss your old life before all this junk came out. I am not a crier, but I can honestly say I have never cried so much in my whole life. Once you make the split from your AP, you get some outside support for doing the right thing, but internally, you're all screwed up and now can't talk to someone who you previously were so connected to and needed so badly.

 

The first 4 months are all tears. It gets better after that. I am trying hard to fix my marriage or end it responsibly, which I should have done before.

 

I've been no contact with the AP, because I desperately want to fix my marriage. All of the old problems in the marriage are still there, multiplied 1000x due to the affair. As guilty as I feel admitting this, I still think of this other person, almost daily. She reached out a few times, but I said nothing back. She has moved on and is seeing others, and probably thinks I don't care. That hurts too, I wish I could sit down and share all of this stuff going on with her again, but I won't. It's too painful, and it would totally end any chance of my marriage surviving, and end any chance at a reasonable relationship with my wife if it does end.

 

Sorry for the ramble, but that's kinda how it feels from my end. Having said all of that, NC is still totally the way to go. Your WS made the choice, and until he's single isn't going to back off of it. I still miss (and have feelings for) my AP, but I won't contact her because of all of the confusion it would bring. You and your AP deserve to be in relationships where you are both available to your partner and they're available to you. Close the book on your end and get yourself happier, get some exercise, and find reasons to enjoy being in your life that don't involve this other person. It will get better eventually, I promise.

 

Hi Jay. That was great. Thanks for taking the time to spell all that out. I would say that my MM has pretty much gone through the same cycle. Only difference is he told his wife, we weren't found out, and he told her he was leaving and in love with someone else. This went back and forth many times, and in the end he decided to work on the marriage and see if he could repair it. The scenario you described, the nuclear bomb, the loss of self all was the same.

 

The difference is he keeps coming back to me to tell me how heartbroken he is, how he misses me, how he is in so much pain, but he still wants to try to make the marriage work. Why does he keep coming back if thats the case? I did tell please leave me alone until hes single, but it was so hard to do on my part and its all so confusing. My bigger question to you is given all you have just described why are you desperate to fix your marriage given all that it lacked that led you to an affair with a woman it sounds like was really compatible with you. Were you ever planning a life with the other woman?That is the million dollar question I think alot of us want to know. If the marriage was so troubled it led you to fall in love with another, why are you so desperate to save it and why didn't you leave to be with the other woman? I really hope you answer as Im curious what your answer is.

[jayinblue]

Hi Lillith,

 

Mine didn't find out either. I told her as well, although I believe she knew something was going on too. I suspect your MM found himself in a similar scenario where his wife knew something was wrong and confronted him about it.

 

From my perspective, I think your guy is very confused. I was very confused at the time too. I don't doubt that he needs you very badly in some ways, *but* he also needs his wife in some ways very badly too. For me, my sense of self got very tied up in what I had and where I was, which included being in a relationship with my spouse. He is probably very upset and is in alot of pain, but the truth is you're in alot of pain too, and to be honest, if he's going to look after himself, you need to look after yourself too.

 

The question you pose is a very hard one to answer, and its one I'm struggling with right now at the moment. I should add a few details which might make some of what I say make more sense. My AP lives basically right next door to my former home. (I say former because I haven't been living at home for about a year now.) My wife and I also have a 3.5 year old daughter.

 

When the affair was going on and reached its zenith, I definitely had thoughts of leaving, but I had no plan, and the logistics of it all seemed awful and heartwrenching. I couldn't envision moving out of my house to moving somewhere near by with my family still there. I also struggled greatly with the idea of not seeing my daughter regularly which really chewed me up inside.

 

I think the main drive to fix the marriage is tied deeply to my feelings for family and my daughter. There are various camps on the subject, some which say that children are fine, some which say that children are not. Most of the statistics become irrelevant when you are talking about your own child, because your beliefs about what is "best" are mainly emotional anyway, and those don't get undone with a statistic.

 

Also, I was afraid at the time of leaving because of how it would affect my wife and daughter. Its one thing to leave because things aren't working out, and quite another to leave because you had an affair and maintain a relationship with someone your wife knows and lives next to. I also felt that if my marriage had a .0001% chance of survival, given my daughter, I had to give it a shot as no matter what happens, I am going to have to explain some of this to her when she gets older.

 

The other problem is I don't trust my judgment anymore. I had an affair (which I know is wrong), lied to my wife (which I know is wrong), hurt my family (which I know is wrong) - it makes you wonder whether you know anything anymore and on pretty much all major decisions, makes you hesitant.

 

I think my reasons for trying to work it out are strongly rooted in ideological beliefs. I think it has something to do with believing that if I can make things "right" with my wife, at least in some small way, I can restore some of my feeling of decency. I think I also took something very significant from my wife, and so I feel a need to square things with her before doing anything different.

 

I know its probably crazy, but it is how I feel. Lately, I wonder if I'm just being a jerk by staying and trying to work things out, and I wonder if I'm being a jerk because I placed my needs above those of my family... Even writing this, I realize I'm still all over the place, and I haven't spoken to this other person for 9 months.

 

Sadly, this is part of the reason I am not reaching out to her either. I care too much for her, since if I bring her into this mess again, its just going to cause more heartache and drama. Sometimes you have to love someone enough to let them go be happy. Your xMM should do the same for you. I would say for you it would be best to stay away until he is officially divorced and available to you completely as no matter what he says, he's still waffling and keeping options open, which isn't fair to you.

[jayinblue]

It goes without saying that I'd love someone else's input on this subject too, but frankly there are some very angry people on here who I am sure will be joining this little discussion and saying some not very nice things shortly.

[bugaboo]

Jayinblue, thank you for your openness and honesty. I am not one of the angry people you mention, and your details and candor have been so enlightening and helpful. I am an OW, no D-Day yet, still in the EMR -- but when (not if) we come to an end, what you shared will be so helpful to me in understanding whatever it is that MM ends up doing at that point.

 

Thank you, again.

 

- bug

[Spark1111]

It goes without saying that I'd love someone else's input on this subject too, but frankly there are some very angry people on here who I am sure will be joining this little discussion and saying some not very nice things shortly.

 

Hey Jay, thanks so much for your honesty. I personally, a former BS, find it refreshing.

 

While our situation varied greatly from your's, I wanted you to know that I refused to reconcile for the sake of family.

 

I am a woman and needed to be wanted and desired by him. I would not be anyone's default choice, kids or no kids.

 

However, in all honesty, in the very beginning, I did give him a second chance based on my maternal feelings. They trumped my romantic needs.

 

And I had given him carte blanche to be with her, which when sincrely offered, seemed like the very last thing he wanted, his confusion was so great. At that point, my heart broke for her, too.

 

However, if I felt for a smidgen he was still pining for her nine months later, I would be long gone.

 

How does your wife feel about that? Have you discussed it with her? Have you two tried MC or IC?

[heartinlove]

Hi Lillith,

 

Mine didn't find out either. I told her as well, although I believe she knew something was going on too. I suspect your MM found himself in a similar scenario where his wife knew something was wrong and confronted him about it.

 

From my perspective, I think your guy is very confused. I was very confused at the time too. I don't doubt that he needs you very badly in some ways, *but* he also needs his wife in some ways very badly too. For me, my sense of self got very tied up in what I had and where I was, which included being in a relationship with my spouse. He is probably very upset and is in alot of pain, but the truth is you're in alot of pain too, and to be honest, if he's going to look after himself, you need to look after yourself too.

 

The question you pose is a very hard one to answer, and its one I'm struggling with right now at the moment. I should add a few details which might make some of what I say make more sense. My AP lives basically right next door to my former home. (I say former because I haven't been living at home for about a year now.) My wife and I also have a 3.5 year old daughter.

 

When the affair was going on and reached its zenith, I definitely had thoughts of leaving, but I had no plan, and the logistics of it all seemed awful and heartwrenching. I couldn't envision moving out of my house to moving somewhere near by with my family still there. I also struggled greatly with the idea of not seeing my daughter regularly which really chewed me up inside.

 

I think the main drive to fix the marriage is tied deeply to my feelings for family and my daughter. There are various camps on the subject, some which say that children are fine, some which say that children are not. Most of the statistics become irrelevant when you are talking about your own child, because your beliefs about what is "best" are mainly emotional anyway, and those don't get undone with a statistic.

 

Also, I was afraid at the time of leaving because of how it would affect my wife and daughter. Its one thing to leave because things aren't working out, and quite another to leave because you had an affair and maintain a relationship with someone your wife knows and lives next to. I also felt that if my marriage had a .0001% chance of survival, given my daughter, I had to give it a shot as no matter what happens, I am going to have to explain some of this to her when she gets older.

 

The other problem is I don't trust my judgment anymore. I had an affair (which I know is wrong), lied to my wife (which I know is wrong), hurt my family (which I know is wrong) - it makes you wonder whether you know anything anymore and on pretty much all major decisions, makes you hesitant.

 

I think my reasons for trying to work it out are strongly rooted in ideological beliefs. I think it has something to do with believing that if I can make things "right" with my wife, at least in some small way, I can restore some of my feeling of decency. I think I also took something very significant from my wife, and so I feel a need to square things with her before doing anything different.

 

I know its probably crazy, but it is how I feel. Lately, I wonder if I'm just being a jerk by staying and trying to work things out, and I wonder if I'm being a jerk because I placed my needs above those of my family... Even writing this, I realize I'm still all over the place, and I haven't spoken to this other person for 9 months.

 

Sadly, this is part of the reason I am not reaching out to her either. I care too much for her, since if I bring her into this mess again, its just going to cause more heartache and drama. Sometimes you have to love someone enough to let them go be happy. Your xMM should do the same for you. I would say for you it would be best to stay away until he is officially divorced and available to you completely as no matter what he says, he's still waffling and keeping options open, which isn't fair to you.

 

Wow Jay. Thank you so much for that answer. I so appreciate it. Our situations are incredibly similar. I too used to be neighbors with my MM and his wife and his wife also knows me although i hadn't seen her or their children in a few years, but used to see her frequently in the neighborhood before they moved away. He did tell her on his own, because he told me he was going to tell the day he did, as he felt he had too, and after that all hell broke loose, and I mean all hell and more. It was so much worse than he and i ever thought it would be.

 

I have to say that if it makes it any easier for you to process this, my MM grapples with everything that you do, all the ideological reasons too. He is also a good guy and this is so outside how anyone ever saw him, including himself, which is the most important part. I should give you his number so you can chat. Just kidding on that one. Family and commitment are important to him regardless of his choices to have an affair. For the bashers who don't get that paradox, I bet, have never been in these situations and all their complexities when real love is present with the affair partner.

 

He feels the same way you do. He did have plans to leave and we talked about what it would look like. In the end he felt he couldn't do it and cause catastrophic pain to his wife and children. He has said the same things you do in that he felt the statistics were mixed in relation to children, but his children are real and how can he do anything that could potentially cause them tremendous pain, and how would he explain this to them, what would this teach them if he left. How could he devastate his wife for his own happiness. And then add on top of that his wife and children know who I am, the added dimension of his wife knowing me would just add to the pain if he and I were together. The potential aftermath was hard for either of us to comprehend. Big questions. Anyone who thinks any of this is easy for the MM is delusional. Especially in these types of affairs that are about love and an emotional connection.

 

Anyone who says people leave marriages all the time, so he should just do it, doesn't get how an added affair complicates it so much more and it is not the same as leaving a marriage on your own because the marriage is over. The pain is exponentially higher for everyone, especially the MM who feels he has betrayed his family on top of whatever problems existed in the marriage.

 

He and I both agreed that the best course was for he to really be in his marriage and for the marriage to take the course it is meant to without my presence in it. Knowing the right thing to do and doing the right thing are two entirely different things. It has been gut wrenching, just awful, to let go of this man who was my best friend, and who I loved to the core of my being. Its been awful for him to. But it is what you said, sometimes loving someone is letting them go. I have chosen to let him go and to help him let go of me. As much as I love him, as much as the loss of him absolutely is devastating to me, I don't want to see him go through or encourage him to go through the utter loss of his family if it will tear him up forever, which it might. He has a conscience just like you, and is a good and sensitive guy.

 

I just want to say you are doing the right thing. If you ever leave your marriage, you will know that it is time, but I think its good to do what you can do to save it if its possible. If you do ultimately leave, I hope you do it with your head held high. We are all human. Love is messy. We all sometimes make mistakes and go about things the wrong way, but sometimes affairs are a deeper symptom of a marriage that has run its course. I wish you the best whatever you ultimately choose, and I hope you can truly forgive yourself. Good people do sometimes get caught up in affairs of the heart.

 

Thank you for your feedback about staying NC. You're right I have to look out for myself too. I have been so sympathetic about his situation that sometimes I have lost sight, that I need to take care of myself, and being in contact with someone you so deeply love when neither of you know if you can ever be together again is just a torture I don't wish on anyone. I will be strong, and know I did the right thing by reinforcing NC when he came back and if ever comes back again, no matter how hard it is. It is nice to hear you love your affair partner enough to let her go and not include her in your confusion. I know mine does too, I just know at times he's overwhelmed and misses the person that was his best friend who he could talk to about everything.

[Lilith Crane]

(((jayinblue)))

 

I never expected this thread to receive a single reply, let alone one so heartfelt and genuine. Thank you for having the courage to post and for allowing us a glimpse into your experience.

 

For some odd reason, I have a feeling about you. I think you're stronger than you know.

 

I wish you peace and happiness in your future.

 

-Lilith

[RickFox]

Wow, I think Jayinblue summed it up better than I could.

 

It has been since mid June since I've 'seen' my xMW and now a few weeks since I've talked to her.

 

I was completely addicted to her, to an extent I'm still withdrawing, I had to see her every day as much as possible, if it meant a small touch at school when we picked up our kids to hanging out with her and her husband for dinner, the addiction was extreme. She was the first to tell me she was falling for me, that she was in love with me, all the right things were said, the ego was stroked at the perfect point in my life.

 

A year prior to the affair I was injured at work, I have done alot of thinking about this, and I came up with this: I believe I am, have been, going thru a mid life crisis thing and while it is absolutely no excuse, it opened me up to doing something I never thought I could or would do. So being injured at work, realizing my own mortality and absolute fear of getting older and being feeble, seeing the many a gray hair on my head, the aches and pains and healing a bit slower than I used to. Add in a woman who is ten years my junior who thinks Im hot....and voila, disaster.

 

Unfortunately, a year of talking, texting, and meeting for playdates, hanging out with her and her husband, becoming very close led up to the physical aspect. It was explosive, the first kiss was intoxicating, and I felt like she was perfect in every way..for me at least. We spoke of leaving our spouses, she would tell me she was now repulsed by him when at home, wishing it was me by her side as she slept, and I felt the same. I even saw her pull away from him once and I thought she was mine.

 

When d day came, we saw each other a few more times, and then she pulled away, going back to her husband, claiming he was trying to change and he had done better. She isolated herself from me, texting was sparse, there was no explanation and like Jay said, I was messed up.

 

I give the emotions of BS no less credence than those I felt, but I had already disconnected from my W long before this happened and I gave the xMW my all. I was torn as to how I would leave my family but I was making plans to, setting things up, and when she withdrew from me with no answers, I was distraught.

 

I have posted much about my feelings here, I still go thru the ups and downs daily, the mornings are worst because I'd see her right after drop off at school.

 

I think about her alot, way too much in fact, the last contact we had, she and I flirted on text, and then she told me she had no intention of going down that road with me again nor did she want to lead me to believe we would. When d day came, she told me that she wanted to keep seeing me, that we would do it carefully and when the dust settled we would find our way back to each other and be very selective. Soo, from one extreme to the other and then she said she didn't know where her marriage would be in 5 or 10 years, that he was doing better (he bought her a ring and became more open to communication, or so she says) and I am now the sour candy in her eyes. She then told me to never contact her again, never talk to her, never come near her and yet again, Im shut out. So from I have never loved someone so much as I do you, never connected with anyone like I have with you, that we "feel so right" to being a leper. I give it alot of thought and I come up with the solution that I was the one who was truly emotionally invested and she, all she wanted was to feel good about herself, and once hubby gave her the attention she craved, she was right back to being the good little wife.

 

I realize my wife has emotions about this whole thing, we are trying and like Jay said, I wonder if Im being selfish but as long as Im not in the right frame of mind, I don't want to make a rash decision and leave. I am searching and trying to reconnect with her, we are working hard, I am trying to move past the xMW...a little each day.

 

Worst thing hands down I got involved in, ruined an adult friendship, a marraige, my daughter's friendship with her now ex best friend......and I have not forgiven myself, not sure I can.

[jayinblue]

Bug: Thanks for the support. I hope things go well for you too, whatever situation you may be in.

 

Spark: Thanks for your honesty and the response too. I think your experience probably reflects my wife's. She is concerned about family stuff, but the great equalizer will be whether she feels needed and desired in the relationship, and if she doesn't she's long gone. As to whether I've discussed it with my wife, in part, I have, but not in any great detail. This has been one of the hardest parts of this whole experience for me. Ordinarily I'll share everything with my wife, and when she has asked if I think about her at all, I've told her that sometimes when I'm feeling lonely she comes up mentally. I've caused her so much pain that I'm afraid to add more logs to the proverbial bonfire and I don't want her to feel any worse than she has through this experience. Also, the hard thing is we still aren't living together, which makes discussing these things difficult, since I'm sometimes at home and sometimes am not. If I'm being totally honest with myself, I think my wife's "maternal" instincts are probably overriding her romantic ones. I have never thought about that perspective before, so I appreciate the insight.

 

Heartfelt: wow. Thank you so much for sharing your feelings. It felt so awful to me to be in this situation and wonder if I was the only one who ended up in it. I've heard of work affairs, and affairs with old flames, but thus far I have not seen many of the "she's in the neighborhood" affairs. I get so confused sometimes with this stuff, because honestly, as good as I thought I was about understanding and expressing my feelings, it turns out I'm actually pretty bad at it.

 

I can't imagine how hard it must have been on your side turning him away and watching him go. You have been so sympathetic to him, and I totally agree with you that the time has come to take care of yourself too. I think the worst things about affairs is that you really do honestly get attached to people that you (for whatever reason) cannot work out a future with and you end up with feelings, hopes, and desires that just can't be filled. I think this is true on both sides of the equation, not to mention the betrayed spouse who must find out how turned inside out their universe really is.

 

I do honestly believe the no contact is the only road to go. You deserve someone that will make you happy. Someone in an affair has a relationship with someone else and therefore by definition cannot possibly fulfill all of your needs. You deserve someone is emotionally and physically available to you, and the only way to get there is to channel the energy you once put into the MM into things that will make you happy. When you do things you like and enjoy, you'll inevitably meet someone who will enjoy those things too. I really admire your strength, and I hope you meet someone who can reciprocate it.

 

Also, this phrase: "We are all human. Love is messy. We all sometimes make mistakes and go about things the wrong way" - is definitely going to stick with me for a while. Thanks for sharing that. Love is totally messy, and we all just do the best we can.

 

Lillith: Thanks for starting this thread. I really don't post all that much here, but have been reading for the past year. For some reason, something you asked just clicked with me at the right time, and its nice talking to someone who's on the other side wondering what's going on. I sometimes wonder too.

 

I would offer a suggestion which has been helpful for me in keeping with the no contact too. I am going to throw out there that I am not really a journaler (though I've been trying to do that more lately). When things get really bad, I write a pretend letter to my other person. I try to lay out how I'm feeling, what's going on, and where my head is at.

 

Then the next step is to write a letter back to yourself from your ex. It sounds really goofy, and I wouldn't admit to any of your fiends that you do it (I sure don't ) but for some reason, only you know what you really need to hear, and sometimes saying it to yourself not only spells out how you're felling and what you really need, but it in a wierd way helps you work on closure. I haven't done it much, mostly I just write letters going out, but once in a while, I've written one back.

 

I really appreciate the vote of confidence too - though I'm kinda a mess at the moment. I hope you start to feel better too.

 

Rick: I totally hear you on the forgiveness thing, I struggle with that too. My ex's kids used to play with my daughter, and it totally sucks when that relationship goes away too. But I agree with heartfelt too, love is messy sometimes. But you need to take care of yourself too - you have your own problems to deal with and I hope things get better for you soon.

 

[sorry for the long post]

 

-J

[Bittersweetie]

• What's a typical day in the life like for the WS when the affair is going strong?
  
• What do you experience at d-day and in the aftermath?
  
• Do you ever want to reach out to the one you left behind
  

Lilith

 

I will give a little on my experience.

 

A typical day was me thinking about him. Maybe I would email him; sometimes I would even text him but not often. We would make plans and then he would cancel. I realize now I was probably just a balm for his wounded ego as his marriage was on the rocks and his girlfriend dumped him. But Sweetie was there when he was bored or needed a lift! Yet even still I was into him; I thought he was incredibly attractive and my physical relationship with my H was nonexistant. I thought this would be my only chance to experience a physical relationship, so I put up with his crap.

 

When d-day happened, he'd already stopped talking to me a couple of months before with no explanation. I tried to reconnect but failed. I was just starting to move on, but d-day was horrible and painful. When the A happened my H was living long distance so that was one reason I was able to compartimentalize it in my mind. It was devastating but I knew that I wanted to be with my H and so I worked very hard on our relationship and myself, and now we are doing pretty well.

 

I do have to agree with something jayinblue said:

 

The other problem is I don't trust my judgment anymore. I had an affair (which I know is wrong), lied to my wife (which I know is wrong), hurt my family (which I know is wrong) - it makes you wonder whether you know anything anymore and on pretty much all major decisions, makes you hesitant.

 

I very much felt like this for a while. I am just starting to trust my instinct and self again, but it did take a couple of years. For a long time I wondered, if I was the type of person who would make this choice, how can I ever know I'm making the right choice?

 

And finally, do I ever want to reach out to him? I did shortly after d-day, but I realize that was more of an escape/addiction thing. Now, no way. Thinking back on our interactions, I see now that he was one of those people that didn't accept responsibility for his actions, everything was someone else's fault. It was even my fault when he cancelled our plans: because I had too many expectations! Ugh, I have no desire to reach out to him. I'm happy with my relationship and my life right now.

 

Hope this helps,

B

[MorningCoffee]

I think this is a very insightful post. Although I was the sOM to a MW who stayed with her H, I feel your description of your own confusion and ambivalence as well as concern and love for your family speak very accurately to what I believe she went through and, for all I know, is still going through. Thank you.

 

Hi Lillith,

 

Mine didn't find out either. I told her as well, although I believe she knew something was going on too. I suspect your MM found himself in a similar scenario where his wife knew something was wrong and confronted him about it.

 

From my perspective, I think your guy is very confused. I was very confused at the time too. I don't doubt that he needs you very badly in some ways, *but* he also needs his wife in some ways very badly too. For me, my sense of self got very tied up in what I had and where I was, which included being in a relationship with my spouse. He is probably very upset and is in alot of pain, but the truth is you're in alot of pain too, and to be honest, if he's going to look after himself, you need to look after yourself too.

 

The question you pose is a very hard one to answer, and its one I'm struggling with right now at the moment. I should add a few details which might make some of what I say make more sense. My AP lives basically right next door to my former home. (I say former because I haven't been living at home for about a year now.) My wife and I also have a 3.5 year old daughter.

 

When the affair was going on and reached its zenith, I definitely had thoughts of leaving, but I had no plan, and the logistics of it all seemed awful and heartwrenching. I couldn't envision moving out of my house to moving somewhere near by with my family still there. I also struggled greatly with the idea of not seeing my daughter regularly which really chewed me up inside.

 

I think the main drive to fix the marriage is tied deeply to my feelings for family and my daughter. There are various camps on the subject, some which say that children are fine, some which say that children are not. Most of the statistics become irrelevant when you are talking about your own child, because your beliefs about what is "best" are mainly emotional anyway, and those don't get undone with a statistic.

 

Also, I was afraid at the time of leaving because of how it would affect my wife and daughter. Its one thing to leave because things aren't working out, and quite another to leave because you had an affair and maintain a relationship with someone your wife knows and lives next to. I also felt that if my marriage had a .0001% chance of survival, given my daughter, I had to give it a shot as no matter what happens, I am going to have to explain some of this to her when she gets older.

 

The other problem is I don't trust my judgment anymore. I had an affair (which I know is wrong), lied to my wife (which I know is wrong), hurt my family (which I know is wrong) - it makes you wonder whether you know anything anymore and on pretty much all major decisions, makes you hesitant.

 

I think my reasons for trying to work it out are strongly rooted in ideological beliefs. I think it has something to do with believing that if I can make things "right" with my wife, at least in some small way, I can restore some of my feeling of decency. I think I also took something very significant from my wife, and so I feel a need to square things with her before doing anything different.

 

I know its probably crazy, but it is how I feel. Lately, I wonder if I'm just being a jerk by staying and trying to work things out, and I wonder if I'm being a jerk because I placed my needs above those of my family... Even writing this, I realize I'm still all over the place, and I haven't spoken to this other person for 9 months.

 

Sadly, this is part of the reason I am not reaching out to her either. I care too much for her, since if I bring her into this mess again, its just going to cause more heartache and drama. Sometimes you have to love someone enough to let them go be happy. Your xMM should do the same for you. I would say for you it would be best to stay away until he is officially divorced and available to you completely as no matter what he says, he's still waffling and keeping options open, which isn't fair to you.

[FightClub]

I have to agree with MorningCoffee here, I too was a single exOM and I'm of the same mind that my exMW felt the same way you did in your experience JayInBlue, much appreciated for posting what it was like, thank you!

 

-FC