Should I divorce my husband?

[The Blue Knight]

I would beg to differ on this point. It makes a HUGE difference when someone is clearly underemployed and has racked up some big-time debt - and has no qualms about letting his higher-salaried wife pay it off. There's ZERO respect in that. Add to that fact that MissingLove isn't happy about the work she's doing and would like to take a different career path but CAN'T because her lazy, complacent husband isn't willing to step up to the damned plate and start bringing in a better income than a shoe salesman.

 

I can totally understand why she's so resentful. It seems she's the one carrying all the financial responsibility in the house and this guy is more than happy with that. No wonder she doesn't respect him.

 

I think the point I'm trying to make is we don't marry someone because of their salary. Or let me rephrase that. We "shouldn't" marry someone because of their salary. Earning potential is what we're really talking about and the OP thinks he has much more to offer in that area, but is lacking motivation. But we are supposed to marry people because we love them, not because of what they make or what they could potentially earn.

 

My posting by and large agrees with what you wrote above OW. But the greater point is if his salary doubled tomorrow is that going to make her respect him more and for their marriage troubles to go away? Of course not. Income is just a small symptom of a much greater problem here.

 

She's lost respect for her husband. She finds him to be lackadaisical, lazy, and unmotivated. While that is interrelated to his annual salary, there's a greater problem at work here. He's stagnant about life and needs the fire lit to get moving again and to gain his wife's respect back . . . assuming that can even happen now.

 

That's why I wrote that his annual salary is rather germane. Because even if he cured the salary issue tomorrow and freed her up to find a new career, go back to school, whatever . . . the problem is still there and hasn't been dealt with. I'd like to believe that this woman is more interested in her husband than simply what he brings home as a paycheck.

[The Blue Knight]

$30k is way above the poverty level, and that's if they had only his income. Lots of people would love to have that income. Let's refrain from the deadbeat Al Bundy shoe salesman jokes.

 

If he makes $30k and she makes more than him, they aren't suffering.

 

And let's hope that Older & Wiser hasn't offended any shoe salesmen on loveshack.

[The Blue Knight]

Why do you live in a "super expensive" area if you can't afford it?

Yeah, I'd have to ask the same question. And don't misread what I'm posting here. Your husband needs a kick in the pants. But if it were my wife and I struggling from living in a high cost area of the country I'd consider a different approach perhaps.

 

There are parts of the country that cost far less than where you're probably at. But you have to consider that salaries often come down with that as well. There are some bang for your buck areas to live such as Texas where salaries to cost of living are actually very good.

 

The question is, do you love your husband enough to make a move such as this? Is he going to change anytime soon? Does he take you seriously when you say you're leaving if things don't change?

[KathyM]

No man is perfect but hey, she sure can get better than a man who gains 30 lbs., can she? How much do women have to lower their standards when they are fit and financially strong themselves?

 

Reminds me again why I am not (yet) married. Sure I could date all the overweight men who write me on datingsites but why should I? I am slim myself and I don't want to have sex with a man whose weight is two times mine. And the idea of having someone next to me in bed who has a belly as if he was 7 months pregnant, does not exactly turn me on.

Yeah, I'm sure she could do better, but she picked him as her husband, with whatever strengths and weaknesses he had at the time. And whatever strengths and weaknesses he deals with during the marriage. I don't believe in throwing a spouse aside if he is struggling with weight, underemployment, or whatever other issues he's struggling with. For better or for worse is the rule of thumb, for me anyway. Once they tie the knot, there isn't supposed to be all these conditional requirements, such as "I'll only stay married to you if you don't gain weight", or "I'll only stay married to you if you make enough money to satisfy me". Gosh, if I had that attitude, I would have been divorced years ago. My husband has never been overweight, but he's had a lot of fluctuations in income over the years, he's recently been through a health crisis for several months, we've had periods where we didn't get along, times when we had major disagreements. I'm glad we stuck it out. I don't believe in a conditional marriage. The only condition that is a dealbreaker for me would be infidelity. I'm all for being very selective about the person you marry, but once married, you learn to live with the person's imperfections and struggles, and help them to overcome those. You don't throw the guy away for someone better that comes along, or because you decide you want someone better.

[carhill]

I want to see progress towards improvement in these other areas if I'm going to stay.

 

So, try the team approach and enter MC again? How does he feel about that? Also, did he 'kick' the drinking habit with AA and, if yes, does he continue to take an active role in his sobriety in that regard?

 

What would you say would be your most positive role in this recovery?

[The Blue Knight]

Yeah, I'm sure she could do better, but she picked him as her husband, with whatever strengths and weaknesses he had at the time. And whatever strengths and weaknesses he deals with during the marriage. I don't believe in throwing a spouse aside if he is struggling with weight, underemployment, or whatever other issues he's struggling with. For better or for worse is the rule of thumb, for me anyway. Once they tie the knot, there isn't supposed to be all these conditional requirements, such as "I'll only stay married to you if you don't gain weight", or "I'll only stay married to you if you make enough money to satisfy me". Gosh, if I had that attitude, I would have been divorced years ago. My husband has never been overweight, but he's had a lot of fluctuations in income over the years, he's recently been through a health crisis for several months, we've had periods where we didn't get along, times when we had major disagreements. I'm glad we stuck it out. I don't believe in a conditional marriage. The only condition that is a dealbreaker for me would be infidelity. I'm all for being very selective about the person you marry, but once married, you learn to live with the person's imperfections and struggles, and help them to overcome those. You don't throw the guy away for someone better that comes along, or because you decide you want someone better.

 

I agree with Kathy. Has the concept of marriage come to this? Just choose to live together rather than marry if you intend of having a velco commitment.

[soserious1]

Yeah, I'm sure she could do better, but she picked him as her husband, with whatever strengths and weaknesses he had at the time. And whatever strengths and weaknesses he deals with during the marriage. I don't believe in throwing a spouse aside if he is struggling with weight, underemployment, or whatever other issues he's struggling with. For better or for worse is the rule of thumb, for me anyway. Once they tie the knot, there isn't supposed to be all these conditional requirements, such as "I'll only stay married to you if you don't gain weight", or "I'll only stay married to you if you make enough money to satisfy me". Gosh, if I had that attitude, I would have been divorced years ago. My husband has never been overweight, but he's had a lot of fluctuations in income over the years, he's recently been through a health crisis for several months, we've had periods where we didn't get along, times when we had major disagreements. I'm glad we stuck it out. I don't believe in a conditional marriage. The only condition that is a dealbreaker for me would be infidelity. I'm all for being very selective about the person you marry, but once married, you learn to live with the person's imperfections and struggles, and help them to overcome those. You don't throw the guy away for someone better that comes along, or because you decide you want someone better.

 

So what you're saying then is that the OP best keep slipping into her high heel steppers & getting out there & earning enough money to support her husband? You're also saying that she should feign interest in sex with the man.

 

She married him, he refuses to consider her needs so that means she should just continue along for the rest of her life doing what he wants, carrying the lion's share of the work?

 

Going to prison for life sounds a lot more attractive than this.

[soserious1]

$30k is way above the poverty level, and that's if they had only his income. Lots of people would love to have that income. Let's refrain from the deadbeat Al Bundy shoe salesman jokes.

 

If he makes $30k and she makes more than him, they aren't suffering.

 

Correction, her husband isn't suffering, OP has expressed total unhappiness with the expectation that she continue to do all the fiscal heavy lifting in her marriage. She's tired of paying more than her 50% share of their joint obligations.

 

Sounds to me like OP is suffering aplenty.. oh and 30K before taxes isn't a lot of money, particularly if kids who need daycare are involved.

[xxoo]

. She's tired of paying more than her 50% share of their joint obligations.

 

I don't understand the expectation to each provide 50%. How realistic is that?

 

Most marriages will have one higher and one lower earner. The idea is to live on a budget that works with the combined income.

 

If the OP loved her husband, and considered him to be a blessing in her life, his lower earnings would not matter. I think the issue is that she does not love him, hence her chosen screen name. At this point, he is a weight pulling her down, not a positive force in her life. I think she is wise to be honest with him about that, and deal with the issue directly. BUT--him earning more money will not necessarily create more love. Money really isn't the issue here, imo.

[soserious1]

Older&Wiser pretty much summed up why I feel the way I do. 30k is basically poverty where we live at. We live in an area that is super expensive, probably has the 1st or 2nd highest cost of living in the U.S. I'd love to move and am working on doing so also.

 

I've basically told him if things don't change and I don't see progress then I am leaving in a certain amount of months and it won't be negotiable. I can't spend my life being miserable and unhappy. I rather be on my own than turn bitter from this marriage.

 

You need to start proactively protecting yourself fiscally.

 

Sit down together,Look over your monthly bills, calculate your basic monthly expenses for housing, utilities, mandatory insurance coverage, also any daycare bills for your children. Add these numbers up, divide by 2.. this is the base amount that each of you needs to contribute to the household.

 

Next, sit down and look bills for food, cable, internet, cell phones add the bills, divide by 2,if these 2 amounts are more than your husband can pay, take a closer look, negotiate ways to lower these costs. ie: moving to a cheaper place,canceling expensive cable, getting rid of expensive cell phone plans.

 

Basically come up with a sane budget for basic, shared household costs.. divide that figure by 2... the final number representing each person's share of jointly acquired & agreed upon living costs.After this set amount each of you will then be free to do whatever you'd like with your remaining respective incomes.

 

 

Have 3 checking accounts, yours,his & one joint account for the mutually agreed upon basic bills. Credit cards? Is your husband an authorized user on your credit cards? if he is, remove him, consider paying off the balance to be generous but going forward make it clear to him that he will be responsible for his own CC debts.

 

Btw, as far as his other debts for things like car notes, credit cards held solely in his name, student loans etc, check with a lawyer as rules regarding spousal liability are different in community property states.

 

The point of all this is to make sure you negotiate a basic budget that you BOTH are in agreement with while then placing personal responsibility for his other individual obligations back on his shoulders.No nagging, no making the guy feel like crap.. making an agreed upon plan to handle shared costs while allowing him the freedom to figure out how he wants to handle his individual, personal expenses.

[soserious1]

I don't understand the expectation to each provide 50%. How realistic is that?

 

Most marriages will have one higher and one lower earner. The idea is to live on a budget that works with the combined income.

 

If the OP loved her husband, and considered him to be a blessing in her life, his lower earnings would not matter. I think the issue is that she does not love him, hence her chosen screen name. At this point, he is a weight pulling her down, not a positive force in her life. I think she is wise to be honest with him about that, and deal with the issue directly. BUT--him earning more money will not necessarily create more love. Money really isn't the issue here, imo.

 

She's unhappy because she's locked into pulling the bulk of the fiscal weight, she can't change jobs or career direction because she's got to support him.. and yes money is the issue!

 

This thread IMHO makes it very clear to me that breadwinners are viewed as less than garbage .. "oh money isn't the issue" you bet your arse it would be an issue if OP came home and announced that she'd decided to quit her job and take a position paying a lot less.

 

Sorry, I'm a high earning person and my days of being guilt tripped and brow beaten into forking over dough to support another person while acting as if my contribution didn't mean anything are long over.

[xxoo]

This thread IMHO makes it very clear to me that breadwinners are viewed as less than garbage ..

 

That is so far from my own view, I can't even understand how you pulled that out of my post

 

I'm the lower earner in my marriage at this point, but I've been the breadwinner at other times.

[xxoo]

Question for the OP--

 

Would it be easier to support yourself and your child without his financial contribution?

 

Assuming that you shared custody, and nobody paid support, you would still need to meet all of your and your child's needs on your income....minus his 30k (also minus his spending). So, in purely practical terms, would that be better or worse for you and your child financially than the current situation?

[soserious1]

That is so far from my own view, I can't even understand how you pulled that out of my post

 

I'm the lower earner in my marriage at this point, but I've been the breadwinner at other times.

 

You aren't the only person posting in this thread, there have also been a lot of other threads where the concerns and complaints of bread winning spouses have been devalued.

 

It's like there's a worthy and an unworthy spouse in each marriage, the unworthy one gets to go out every day and find a way to support the worthy one, while also hurrying home to clean & cook and ease the stress of the worthy spouse.

[soserious1]

missinglove,

 

Here is my most heartfelt advice to you, offered up from my own very painful mistakes.

 

1. You have a child together, your husband is in active recovery from ETOH dependency - a last ditch, sincere effort to repair the marriage together is in order IMHO.

 

2. Your husband is a recovering alcoholic which might also mean that you are a recovering co-dependent, enabler who's got YEARS of resentments built up. People find each other for a reason & people who stay together for years often have complimentary issues.

 

3. Part of HIS recovery will be to take a personal inventory & to begin to make amends to those who were harmed by his addiction, part of YOUR recovery will be to learn about healthy boundaries, where do you end, where do other people begin? You've gotten to this unequal place in large part because you've allowed to happen. Learn why that is or every relationship you have going forward might be equally unbalanced.

 

4. Another part of recovery for you will be letting go of resentments, forgiving him for his transgressions & making amends to him for enabling him. You most likely spent years

of your life paying for things, making excuses & covering for your husband as if you were his mother. Stopping this is going to be hard, it's going to be painful for you both but if the marriage is to recover you both need to setup new boundaries that will allow your husband to stand on his own 2 feet & decide what he needs or doesn't need to do. He might well decide that he needs to get a better job or take a second part time gig once you decide to stop enabling him fiscally, alternatively he might decide to simplify his life, cutting back on his personal expenses in order to live on his 30K per year salary. The point is, with healthy boundaries this will be HIS decision, not choices he's been forced to make by a wife who's grown used to treating him as if he was a small child.

 

As part of all this you need to prepare yourself for the possibility that this attempt to repair the marriage won't work. You need to know going in that if the disparity in your incomes is really large that a divorce court judge might well order you to pay hefty child support even if you share 50/50 physical custody, you might also be required to pay fairly hefty alimony for several years, if he gets a good lawyer he might even get more than 50% of the marital assets, you need to remember that Alcoholism is considered an illness, if your husband gets a sympathetic judge, you could easily be painted as a heartless,cruel woman seeking to dump a poverty stricken man just as he stands shakily on sober ground.

 

In any event, family court judges are loath to alter the lifestyle patterns the couple had in place during the marriage & do so only with compelling reasons. You need to change the fiscal patterns of the marriage well in advance of any divorce action or you could easily find yourself divorced & still chained to a job you've grown to hate because you've been court ordered to pay him.

[OliveOyl]

No man is perfect but hey, she sure can get better than a man who gains 30 lbs., can she? How much do women have to lower their standards when they are fit and financially strong themselves?

If you are financially strong yourself then it shouldn't matter how financially strong HE is, right? You don't need him for that.

 

Reminds me again why I am not (yet) married. Sure I could date all the overweight men who write me on datingsites but why should I? I am slim myself and I don't want to have sex with a man whose weight is two times mine. And the idea of having someone next to me in bed who has a belly as if he was 7 months pregnant, does not exactly turn me on.

 

This isn't some guy she met off a dating site... this is a man she's MARRIED to. There is a difference. Plus, 30lbs is NOT that difficult for a guy to lose. Yeah it will take a few months but so?

 

It seems like what some people think of a marriage is a quid-pro-quo exchange of services. I think of it as something entirely different.

[OliveOyl]

I think the point I'm trying to make is we don't marry someone because of their salary. Or let me rephrase that. We "shouldn't" marry someone because of their salary. Earning potential is what we're really talking about and the OP thinks he has much more to offer in that area, but is lacking motivation. But we are supposed to marry people because we love them, not because of what they make or what they could potentially earn.

 

My posting by and large agrees with what you wrote above OW. But the greater point is if his salary doubled tomorrow is that going to make her respect him more and for their marriage troubles to go away? Of course not. Income is just a small symptom of a much greater problem here.

 

She's lost respect for her husband. She finds him to be lackadaisical, lazy, and unmotivated. While that is interrelated to his annual salary, there's a greater problem at work here. He's stagnant about life and needs the fire lit to get moving again and to gain his wife's respect back . . . assuming that can even happen now.

 

That's why I wrote that his annual salary is rather germane. Because even if he cured the salary issue tomorrow and freed her up to find a new career, go back to school, whatever . . . the problem is still there and hasn't been dealt with. I'd like to believe that this woman is more interested in her husband than simply what he brings home as a paycheck.

 

Yep. This. Blue Knight expressed my thoughts even better.

[reboot]

It seems like what some people think of a marriage is a quid-pro-quo exchange of services. I think of it as something entirely different.

 

It's absolutely mind boggling isn't it? Marriage is supposed to be about the sharing of a life, not how fairly the finances can be split.

 

Marriage is a covenant, not a contract.

[soserious1]

It's absolutely mind boggling isn't it? Marriage is supposed to be about the sharing of a life, not how fairly the finances can be split.

 

Marriage is a covenant, not a contract.

 

Ok... and what does one do if their half of that "shared life" brings them nothing but sadness,pain & extra work while the other spouse gets to coast in bliss and ease?

[soserious1]

Question for the OP--

 

Would it be easier to support yourself and your child without his financial contribution?

 

Assuming that you shared custody, and nobody paid support, you would still need to meet all of your and your child's needs on your income....minus his 30k (also minus his spending). So, in purely practical terms, would that be better or worse for you and your child financially than the current situation?

 

Nice post but overly simplistic. Divorce court judges are all about keeping in place the patterns established by the couple during the marriage. Unless the OP changes things well before the divorce action is started she could very easily find herself paying her ex hefty child support and alimony, he could easily end up with more disposable income a month then she does.

[OliveOyl]

She's unhappy because she's locked into pulling the bulk of the fiscal weight, she can't change jobs or career direction because she's got to support him.. and yes money is the issue!

 

This thread IMHO makes it very clear to me that breadwinners are viewed as less than garbage .. "oh money isn't the issue" you bet your arse it would be an issue if OP came home and announced that she'd decided to quit her job and take a position paying a lot less.

 

Sorry, I'm a high earning person and my days of being guilt tripped and brow beaten into forking over dough to support another person while acting as if my contribution didn't mean anything are long over.

 

She's not locked into anything. Human beings are amazingly creative and resourceful... once we are able to let go of limiting beliefs and mindsets.

 

If the genders were reversed... the man was earning the higher amount and the woman was earning 30K... and the man announced that he was thinking of leaving his wife because his wife wasn't earning more than 30K... well that would be seen as highly unusual.

 

I agree. Money is NOT the issue. Having been on BOTH sides (money flowing easily and money being tight) I can fully assert that there's way more to the story.

[soserious1]

She's not locked into anything. Human beings are amazingly creative and resourceful... once we are able to let go of limiting beliefs and mindsets.

 

If the genders were reversed... the man was earning the higher amount and the woman was earning 30K... and the man announced that he was thinking of leaving his wife because his wife wasn't earning more than 30K... well that would be seen as highly unusual.

 

I agree. Money is NOT the issue. Having been on BOTH sides (money flowing easily and money being tight) I can fully assert that there's way more to the story.

 

If I were the OP, I'd simply go home, sit him down & announce that I would be beginning the process of changing fields. I'd then lay out exactly what I could/ could not afford on my new projected lower salary, as long as that amount is exactly 50% of their shared, mutually agreed upon expenses how he manages to cough up the cash to pay his half as well as cover his other personal debts & expenses would be his problem.

 

He doesn't own her, she's not required to stay at a job she dislikes just so she can continue to pay his bills.

 

Btw, my advice on issues like this stands regardless of which gender is the higher earning partner.Nobody wants to be viewed as a cash cow, male or female.

[The Blue Knight]

She's unhappy because she's locked into pulling the bulk of the fiscal weight, she can't change jobs or career direction because she's got to support him.. and yes money is the issue!

 

This thread IMHO makes it very clear to me that breadwinners are viewed as less than garbage .. "oh money isn't the issue" you bet your arse it would be an issue if OP came home and announced that she'd decided to quit her job and take a position paying a lot less.

 

Sorry, I'm a high earning person and my days of being guilt tripped and brow beaten into forking over dough to support another person while acting as if my contribution didn't mean anything are long over.

 

I make twice what my wife makes. She works just as hard and she has a masters degree. She's been trying to find another job and even works a second job to make up for some of that. But never once in our 15 years together have I felt that she has to make 50% of our household income. I'd love it if she found a job that paid her more (in this economy?) but it's never had one thing to do with how I feel about her or our relationship.

 

I'm confused by the emphasis on $$$ by some of the people posting here. Some of the other problems the husband has presented I can grasp, but his income level? Moreover, has it been discussed that she maybe hitched her wagon to a rather unmotivated man in the first place? Some of that responsibility belongs to her unless he sold her a very rosy picture of who he was prior to the marriage and then changed suddenly afterward.

[The Blue Knight]

She's not locked into anything. Human beings are amazingly creative and resourceful... once we are able to let go of limiting beliefs and mindsets.

 

If the genders were reversed... the man was earning the higher amount and the woman was earning 30K... and the man announced that he was thinking of leaving his wife because his wife wasn't earning more than 30K... well that would be seen as highly unusual.

 

I agree. Money is NOT the issue. Having been on BOTH sides (money flowing easily and money being tight) I can fully assert that there's way more to the story.

Thank you for pointing out the obvious. I had been thinking the exact same thing but decided not to go down that road in this case. But it's a point worthy of bringing up. Double standards here perhaps?

[soserious1]

Thank you for pointing out the obvious. I had been thinking the exact same thing but decided not to go down that road in this case. But it's a point worthy of bringing up. Double standards here perhaps?

 

Not with me, I advise the same way regardless of who the higher earner is.

 

The OP is seriously unhappy, she feels locked into a job she no longer enjoys solely because she's obligated to pay for the lion's share of the bills.

 

I say she should pay her half of mutually agreed upon life expenses & let him worry about the rest, that shouldn't be a problem should it? I mean seein as it's "all about luv" and stuff her husband shouldn't mind a bit if she stops being a cash cow should he?