What was your divorce settlement?

[Trimmer]

LOL about the court "doesn't want to get into judging issues of moral right and wrong".

 

I thought that's what courts do but I guess I'm sadly mistaken.

Not sure if your sarcasm is aimed at me or the court system, but I won't take it personally.

 

Even as I wrote that, I realized I wasn't doing a very good job of explaining my point, and RP did a much better job expanding on it here:

 

This is a question the legal system is trying to answer, too. On a holistic level, courts are trying to do what's right and correct wrongs. But there's a myriad of social policies to balance, as well. In the context of alimony, courts don't want to force people to play games, pull out dirty laundry, spend kids' college money on attorneys, and decide whether one person was worse than the other - just to split marital assets.

 

You are right that in criminal cases, and in many civil cases, the court is specifically charged with adjudicating right and wrong - usually along pretty well-defined boundaries: what are the elements of the crime? What are the laws about a tree hanging over a neighbor's fence? What were the agreements set forth in this contract?

 

In the case of the dissolution of a marriage, no-fault states have decided that their purpose is mostly to provide for equitable distribution of marital assets, and to safeguard the wellbeing of children of the marriage, and ostensibly, of a spouse with lower earnings, etc. (Not intending to start an alimony or gender-bias discussion here.) And they have specifically decided to stay out of adjudicating issues of hurt feelings, relationship dynamics, and yes, even adultery.

 

So my earlier comment was a little over-simplified, but RP's comment gets to the point: courts in no-fault states have put their citizens on notice that they will not be used as another weapon in a dysfunctional relationship dynamic. They have essentially set a boundary: This is what we will do in a dissolution, these are our responsibilities: work out your assets, keep the kids supported and safe, provide financially for a spouse under certain conditions... But this stuff over here - adultery, hurt feelings, etc. - we're not going to work that out for you, and you're not going to drag us into it.

 

We can argue the usefulness or the wisdom of that approach (again, acknowledging RP's well-stated comments) but that's the basic message if you live in such a state.

[marqueemoon4]

In my state they consider having sex with someone other than your spouse even after separation adultery, unless there is a signed agreement in place.

 

That said, my exW was living with another guy, lied about it 100 times (I only wanted to know where my son was living) so I had to get a PI and prove it which I did. I later found out she was cheating with a coworker (not the scrub she is living with now) BEFORE she left. After all this and being outed she STILL tried to get alimony. I refused and finally her lawyer gave up on it, as she wanted a no-fault, out of court settlement.

[kaleidoscope]

No I wasn't making fun of you Trimmer. That sentence just sounded funny.

 

Everything just seems more complicated than it has to be with the courts, etc. There are probably a million permutations of arguments and counter-arguments and views for these situations I guess.

 

Very interesting topic.

[RecordProducer]

Everything just seems more complicated than it has to be with the courts, etc. There are probably a million permutations of arguments and counter-arguments and views for these situations I guess.

 

Very interesting topic.

True. In fact, all areas of the law have arguments and counter-arguments to balance that are entangled and conflicting. Centuries, or even decades, ago, courts were conservative and paternalistic. But nowadays, they are very liberal and trying to do what's just - taking into account every factor in the equasion. In divorce law, they seek to preserve the family as an institution but also to enable freedom of choice to divorce.

[Trimmer]

No I wasn't making fun of you Trimmer. That sentence just sounded funny.

Gotcha... Yeah, like I said - even as I hit "Send" on that original sentence, I was thinking, you know, somehow that doesn't quite completely capture it...

[Tiberius]

Works both ways guys,I have 3jobs and full child care.

My STBX does not have our children at all ,lives in our family home with his skank AP and thinks he is going to get away with just giving me enough to buy a house because that is all HE thinks I deserve.

We own 3dairy farms but they are tied up in trusts so he thinks he is safe.

we were married 20 years I intend to fight tooth an nail for a fair "equal" share

 

So women thesedays feel screwed not when they feel they pay too much, but when they feel they did not get enough. Wow, just wow.

[RecordProducer]

So women thesedays feel screwed not when they feel they pay too much, but when they feel they did not get enough. Wow, just wow.

"Not enough" is a very broad term. Would you work for $2 per hour or is that not enough?

 

My understanding is that after being married for twenty years, her husband wants to give her a tiny percentage of what they have (3 dairy farms). Plus, she has the kids with her.

 

If thinsg are not the ay this poster presented them, it's not up to me to be the fact finder on an anonymous board. The idea is that it's their joint assets she wants to share.That's quite different from having a chunk of your ex's salary for a long time after a divorce.

[Damia]

"Not enough" is a very broad term. Would you work for $2 per hour or is that not enough?

 

My understanding is that after being married for twenty years, her husband wants to give her a tiny percentage of what they have (3 dairy farms). Plus, she has the kids with her.

 

If thinsg are not the ay this poster presented them, it's not up to me to be the fact finder on an anonymous board. The idea is that it's their joint assets she wants to share.That's quite different from having a chunk of your ex's salary for a long time after a divorce.

 

Thank you RP ,yes I want half of our joint assets !I have had almost as much input into building them as he has .

I do not feel this is an unjustified requirement ,as in New Zealand there is no spousal support.

You split everything in half and move on.

Therefore I need the best outcome possible for my future and my children's futures as their father seems to have forgotten they exist!

There is child support until 18 yrs but this is minimal.

I only want a fair half no more no less.He will continue to make a living from our assets where I can not

so yes Tiberius I will feel very screwed if I do not get enough(half)

Edited December 4, 2011 by Damia

[carhill]

Here's a guide promulgated by the NZ family court system.

 

If the dairies are relationship property and were placed in trust by both parties, perhaps an alternative arrangement can be made allowing the distribution to be paid over time out of earnings. Are the dairies clear of debts and, if not, how will debt repayment be apportioned?

 

Here in California, the court can pierce a trust by invalidating it to provide equitable distribution of assets if sufficient cause can be brought. I dealt with some of these issues as trustee when seeking legal advice for my particular circumstances.

 

Good luck with your settlement.

[Damia]

Here's a guide promulgated by the NZ family court system.

 

If the dairies are relationship property and were placed in trust by both parties, perhaps an alternative arrangement can be made allowing the distribution to be paid over time out of earnings. Are the dairies clear of debts and, if not, how will debt repayment be apportioned?

 

Here in California, the court can pierce a trust by invalidating it to provide equitable distribution of assets if sufficient cause can be brought. I dealt with some of these issues as trustee when seeking legal advice for my particular circumstances.

 

Good luck with your settlement.

 

Thank you Carhil:)For the link

I have researched quite extensively and have trust in my lawyer to do the best for me.

she is also very good at explaining things and is confident that she can get a good result for me.

But as you have pointed out trusts,partnerships,debt etc make things complicated and expensive to sort out.

I can only cross my fingers and hope for the best

[speedster]

i hired a fantastic attorney, ( i needed to) and a forensic accountant. and in the end she literally got 2%. That's about what I paid my attorney and accountant. No spousal maintenance.

[jstobo]

i hired a fantastic attorney, ( i needed to) and a forensic accountant. and in the end she literally got 2%. That's about what I paid my attorney and accountant. No spousal maintenance.

 

Speester, can you give a little more detail about your situation? I've been thinking about hiring a forensic accountant, because I think my STBX is taking in mostly cash.

[jstobo]

So what do you all think of this? I've been trying to move our divorce along for the past three months with absolutely no luck. We don't have a court binding agreement on child support and spousal support. Our mediator, which my STBX basically fired 3 months ago, gave us some figures based on rough numbers. I've been going by those figures for the past 9 months. However, I have strongly believed they weren't fair. My STBX is a graphic designer and contemporary artist. Lots of cash opportunities.

 

This morning I sent her an e-mail that was a follow up to another e-mail she ignored 10 days ago. The e-mail basically said we haven't moved forward in our negotiations for divorce in 3 months. My goal is to be divorced by the end of February. I am giving you what I think is fair for December and if we don't make any progress in negotiations by January, I will assume my figure is fair.

 

Any thoughts? For back story purposes: she is the one who left the marriage for another man, but I am in a no fault state.

[Ready2Go]

I am going to propose the following to my wife. Please let me know if you think it's fair.

 

She gets: House and all furnishings and appliances, the nice car, the minivan, all jewelry, 1/2 of cash in accounts, her pension, older computer with printer, 60% of my net income - which is reduced as adult kids graduate college, and the house is paid in full (5 years).

 

I get: Truck, small old boat with trailer, fishing equipment, 1/2 of cash, my pension, 40% of my income subject to increase as described above.

 

Is that fair?

[jstobo]

I am going to propose the following to my wife. Please let me know if you think it's fair.

 

She gets: House and all furnishings and appliances, the nice car, the minivan, all jewelry, 1/2 of cash in accounts, her pension, older computer with printer, 60% of my net income - which is reduced as adult kids graduate college, and the house is paid in full (5 years).

 

I get: Truck, small old boat with trailer, fishing equipment, 1/2 of cash, my pension, 40% of my income subject to increase as described above.

 

Is that fair?

 

Sounds incredibly fair for her. What did you do to want to give up that much?

[Ready2Go]

I stopped loving her, while she still loves me. She's going to feel bad enough emotionally, so I want to make sure that finances are not a worry for her. She's a good mother to our daughters, and they need her. I was just the money in the waning years.

 

My pension will make up almost have of my current income. And since I'm still employable and in high demand, I can get a new job and earn more (job + pension) than I am now. That way, I can afford a new place to live in a different state other than CA.

[jstobo]

I stopped loving her, while she still loves me. She's going to feel bad enough emotionally, so I want to make sure that finances are not a worry for her. She's a good mother to our daughters, and they need her. I was just the money in the waning years.

 

My pension will make up almost have of my current income. And since I'm still employable and in high demand, I can get a new job and earn more (job + pension) than I am now. That way, I can afford a new place to live in a different state other than CA.

 

Well that is very honorable of you. My STBX is the one who fell out of love and left for another man, yet she is trying to bury me financially. All I did was love and support her through our entire 11 year marriage. Lot of good it did me. I wish she was as honorable as you.

[Ready2Go]

I appreciate the kind comment. But I still feel awful that I am going to ask her for a divorce. I sure don't feel honorable about that at all. But it will be the best for both of us in the long run.

 

I hope our adult daughters understand the best they can, and don't hate me too much. But that's the risk I run.

[Tiberius]

So what do you all think of this? I've been trying to move our divorce along for the past three months with absolutely no luck. We don't have a court binding agreement on child support and spousal support. Our mediator, which my STBX basically fired 3 months ago, gave us some figures based on rough numbers. I've been going by those figures for the past 9 months. However, I have strongly believed they weren't fair. My STBX is a graphic designer and contemporary artist. Lots of cash opportunities.

 

This morning I sent her an e-mail that was a follow up to another e-mail she ignored 10 days ago. The e-mail basically said we haven't moved forward in our negotiations for divorce in 3 months. My goal is to be divorced by the end of February. I am giving you what I think is fair for December and if we don't make any progress in negotiations by January, I will assume my figure is fair.

 

Any thoughts? For back story purposes: she is the one who left the marriage for another man, but I am in a no fault state.

 

I think she does not want to be divorced.

[Kelemvor]

Does anyone have any idea what alimony would be like for a situation like mine? Resident physician, on a resident's salary (low), married for 1.5 years, no kids, to a wife with 2 bachelor's degrees but essentially jobless at the moment because she is unwilling to look for work outside her latest degree's scope of skills, regardless of the economy. (Very part time stuff but not able to sustain or contribute financially so I pay for everything. Also, we both have educational debt. Mine obviously is much more than hers.) It's kind of a matter where she "could" work hard in something other than her latest degree, but she just chooses not to. My life philosophy, financial philosophy and even love philosophy is emotionally devastating her and even more than keep going on and torturing myself, I feel terrible about torturing her. She feels tortured but my primary concern is that with her current work ethic and unwillingness to look outside her latest degree field, she essentially would be incapable of taking care of herself. I'm not opposed to alimony. She's a wonderfully sweet girl, but we are simply incompatible. Yet, I don't want to be stuck in a situation where I am supporting someone who will more than likely protract the typical "grief stricken" phase of divorce and more than likely will not seek a stable job anytime shortly after.

 

I don't even know that I can afford a lawyer right now, but should I get one? I'd let her have everything that she brought into the marriage, half of all money earned by me, except the house which is in my name. Or would she have rights to the house, even though it's purchased by me and in my name and she never paid mortgage on?

 

I live in a conservative state. Given that we have only been married for a short time, would I be expected to pay a large amount of alimony for an extended period of time because she can't afford to take care of herself right now?

Edited December 12, 2011 by Kelemvor

[carhill]

If the house was acquired while you were married and you live in a community property state, it is generally counted as community property if in a contested action. You and your wife can agree to essentially anything as long as it passes the 'fairness' test with the court. If you live in a MSA jurisdiction (marital settlement agreement), the court will generally rubber-stamp what you and your spouse agree to, excepting issues regarding children if deemed relevant by the court (not an issue for you).

 

Your wife is employable. There are no children. I would move for spousal support to be waived. In our filing, my ex-wife indicated that on the FL-100 and we reaffirmed on the MSA. Court rubber stamped. Your situation isn't much different than ours. Living separately was/is a struggle (more for me than her since I ended up with most of the debt) but it doesn't rise to the level of relief from the court.

 

I'd suggest, if available, to try mediation and see if you and she can work something out. Concurrently, get an estimate of legal costs based on your situation for a contested D and crunch the numbers of the two paths. What's your sanity worth?

 

A lawyer is your best source of legal advice. IANAL but paid one plenty to advise me before and during our D.

[Heart On]

Being that this isn't a man vs.woman situation,but a Provider vs.Dependant situation I will comment from that perspective.I was the bread winner and the SAHM thanks to an inheritance that I protected long before our marriage thru a Pre-Nuptual Agreement that stated what we came into the marriage with,we left with.Period.He signed it with full disclosure of my assets.I signed it knowing I also wouldn't get a dime from him in the event of a divorce,no matter what either of us earned during our 24 year marriage.

 

We had a no-fault divorce after a year and a day waiting period,wherein I initiated a legal separation due to irreconcilable differences.

 

We have joint custody of our 3 kids,now 3 years since the divorce,11,18 and 20.He has visitation,but pays no child support.I do not pay him alimony!

I did not have to split the equity in the home I paid for alone.We intentionally kept ALL of our finances separate throughout the years and in the end,there was nothing to split.

 

BUT....that being said,he informed me that he would "take me for half and burn it in front of me". LMAO!

 

Oh really~!??? I thought you married me for LOVE...not my GD money!

I guess you forgot that little promise signature you signed 6 years before we even GOT married! hahaha

 

So in the end,I paid for my attorney to go thru my prenup to make sure it protected us BOTH and in the end,spent $3000 to find out that my state protected MY assets thru an Inheritance law that stated any monies or property begotten thru an inheritance I recieved in my name only,before we were married,was ALL MINE in the event that we divorced.

 

PRENUPS are not only smart,but the only way to ensure that someone marries you for LOVE and not your MONEY!

 

So,while I may have waived child support for our 3 kids because he never supported them financially and I didn't want to chase him around for the pittance he may have been able to pay,and while I may have to watch him support his new wife,and pay for EVERYTHING for my kids alone,and he walked off scott free for his abusiveness and alcoholism,I figured,F-IT!

 

At least I finally found a way out of his life,and I kept myself protected financially as a provider and he didn't get a dime of my inherited money!~

 

I am not an advocate for supporting someone financially beyond a marriage let alone "redistributing the wealth" for either sex!

 

What entitles anyone to someone else's assets if they married for love?

 

PRENUPS are imperative for anyone with ALOT more money than thier partner! Male or female....Protect your A$$ETS!~

 

Or risk losing half to someone who didn't earn it!

[Tiberius]

Signing a prenup is a good idea if you have assets. Makes me feel sorry for the spineless suckers who let themselves talk out of getting a prenup signed, because it means he expects the marriage to fail, doesnt trust her, etc. bla bla.

[RecordProducer]

Any thoughts? For back story purposes: she is the one who left the marriage for another man, but I am in a no fault state.

What is your question? I am trying to figure out what exactly is bothering you. Can you talk to your attorney?

 

Why can'tyou schedule a meeting with your wife (and your attorneys) to negotiate the settlement. Maybe she will be motivated if you stop paying her? Did you sign an agreement at mediation about the current alimony? Did you have an oral agreement? Oral agreements are valid, especially in family law, but what is valid - is really what the courts decide is valid.

 

I am going to propose the following to my wife. Please let me know if you think it's fair.

I think you mentioned you haven't asked her for divorce yet. You will change your proposed settlement when your wife pokes your eyes out and calls you every name under the sun.

 

I stopped loving her, while she still loves me. She's going to feel bad enough emotionally, so I want to make sure that finances are not a worry for her. She's a good mother to our daughters, and they need her.

Hm... you have someone else?

 

I can afford a new place to live in a different state other than CA

So, you're leaving your daughters? Is that what you're paying for in advance?

 

Does anyone have any idea what alimony would be like for a situation like mine? Resident physician, on a resident's salary (low), married for 1.5 years, no kids,

This doesn't sound promising for her.

she essentially would be incapable of taking care of herself.

Um... why is this? Is she disabled? She can't wait tables or pump gas?

 

She's a wonderfully sweet girl, but we are simply incompatible.

If this is your long-term decision, then you should divorce her before you become a doctor - and children are born.

 

I don't even know that I can afford a lawyer right now, but should I get one? I'd let her have everything that she brought into the marriage, half of all money earned by me, except the house which is in my name.

Here's what I would do: try to reach a fair agreement with her since you two have practically nothing to split, and if you can't agree, then you may need a lawyer. If she wants more than you're willing to give her, talk to a lawyer. The good news is you've only been married for 1.5 years, but next year it will be 2.5 years if you do nothing - and a baby might come along. She could ask for a percentage of your future earnings as a physician, if you're married long enough and have children.

 

Or would she have rights to the house, even though it's purchased by me and in my name and she never paid mortgage on?

If she wants to go for the house or anything beyond what you're willing to give her, you will need to talk to a lawyer. You don't have to retain a lawyerimmediately, you can just prepare all your questions, a breakdown of your assets (and documentation), and pay for consultation. But go to a good lawyer, not just anyone.

 

A lawyer is your best source of legal advice.

Listen to Carhill; he is licensed to practice law on Loveshack in all 50 states! And the above is his best advice.

 

He has visitation,but pays no child support.I do not pay him alimony!

 

So in the end,I paid for my attorney to go thru my prenup to make sure it protected us BOTH and in the end,spent $3000 to find out that my state protected MY assets thru an Inheritance law that stated any monies or property begotten thru an inheritance I recieved in my name only,before we were married,was ALL MINE in the event that we divorced.

I have a feeling that you think the statute wouldprotect your inheritance even absent you prenup - not necessarily so. Maybe if your inheritance was a house that was never remodelled or sold, but ifyou inherited $1 million which you invested and turned into $2 million, it would be at the mercy of some judge and drag you through court for years, just to lose a big chunk of it at the end. You did a wise thing by protecting your inheritance.

PRENUPS are not only smart,but the only way to ensure that someone marries you for LOVE and not your MONEY!

Well, they could count on your money during the marriage, too.

 

So,while I may have waived child support for our 3 kids

You can't waive child support or custody! You can still get it from him. But I think you're already aware of this.

[Heart On]

Signing a prenup is a good idea if you have assets. Makes me feel sorry for the spineless suckers who let themselves talk out of getting a prenup signed, because it means he expects the marriage to fail, doesnt trust her, etc. bla bla.

 

No signatures,no marriage in my book.Since marriage is a legal and binding financial contract in this day and age,the least one should do is consider the possibility in a 50/50 risk situation,that things won't work out!

 

It actually does say that you are marrying someone for love and not thier money and I think it's the only decent thing to do.Anyone who thinks otherwise has hidden agenda's or designs on the money they stand to gain in the event of a divorce.

 

Better safe than sorry! I didn't expect the marriage to fail nor did I not trust him or I wouldn't have married him.I chose to protect my inheritance because I wanted to leave it to my children,not my xHusband and his new wife!~ lol

 

Look what happens to providers who don't protect thier assets?

 

Off the the cleaners to hand in thier shirts! Community property laws are desgined to punish the person who already worked thier a$$ets off to provide and then they are forced to support those very dependants well out of the marriage too?

 

Talk about a scam! I paid for my xHusband to LIVE in all ways for 24 years,and I would be damned if I was going to split sh*t with him!

If anything..........he owed ME back money for all those years of financial dependency!

 

Sorry x-dependants.Go make it yourself.You chose to sit around and live off the fat of your spouses income and wanted out,time to take care of yourself finally!

 

Kids are another story altogether.....they are true dependants and I have no problem paying for them.....but an able bodied x-spouse who can't be bothered to even pay child support for thier kids and have thier hands out for more more more?

 

IN your dreams.

 

You can't waive child support or custody! You can still get it from him. But I think you're already aware of this.

 

First off,you can't get blood from a stone....secondly I don't want to chase anyone around for money they should feel they owe to thier children,thirdly,it is officially waived in our divorce papers.

As is any settlement he may have fought to get.

 

He actually wanted me to give him a settlement thru my inheritance/prenup protected assets so he could pay child support back to me

 

I laughed in his face.

 

Oddly enough,this made for a much more civil divorce and custory/visitiation situation.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Heart On