Psychology used by MMs to prey on women?

[sally12adams]

Those words "he knows me well and can read me" conjure up dark memories for me. Shivers too! I'd tell anyone to beware of someone who says things like that to you.

 

He seemed to take pride in that. At that time, I felt a mixture of wow-this-guy-knows-me-so-well and it's-a-little-scary-to-always-be-easily-read.

 

But now I agree with you. It's more scary than cute.

[PinkInTheLimo]

all I can do is look at my own issues that caused me to be a victim and come on on the other side as a survivor, and I AM.

 

I disagree with the idea that someone who becomes the prey of a sociopath is someone with issues.

Being sensitive and vulnerable is not a crime. As a matter of fact, with the right person, it is what will make your bond stronger and deeper.

It's just that the sociopaths can smell that sensitivity and vulnerability from miles away and know exactly what to do or say to lure you into their trap.

 

I know now that there was a woman who chased my lying and cheating ex. She was a colleague of his and a first class false snake. She never made it further than a friendship with him.

Why did he not pick her? Well, she was just as much a sociopath as he was. He knew that she would be lying to and cheating on him in a relationship...

 

No, I put all the blame with the sociopath.

[frozensprouts]

about married men/women being "predators" and the single person being "prey"...

 

maybe a serial cheater could be considered a predator, but to label them as a sociopath simply because of that seems a little extreme ( myself, I would label them as a "knob" or "jerk" or something more vulgar, but that's beside the point)

 

- I know my next comment will get me in trouble, but it's just my opinion-

 

again, about the single person being a "victim"...that really depends...if the married person told you they were single, then yes, you are a victim of a lie. If the married person told you "I'm married but....( insert excuse here) then you knew he or she was married but you made the choice to ignore that fact and saw the situation as you chose to see it. Blaming the married person isn't going to help...you have the power to decide for yourself what you are going/not going to do in your life..why turn yourself into a victim ad take that power away from yourself? You can control your own life and your own destiny.

 

When I first found out my husband cheated, i was furious with anyone and everyone I thought i could blame. I blamed "the other woman" for the whole thing and thought of her as a psychopath until someone pointed out to me that, no matter what kind of probems she may have, my husband made the choice to be in a relationship with her- you can't seduce someone who won't allow it- and it works both ways- if you don't want to get involved with someone who is married, then don't- if they have lied and said that they are single, but you find out otherwise, don't be a victim...take your power back and decide for yourself what you are gong to do.

 

About being a "sociopath"...simply cheating on one's spouse does not make one a "sociopath" ( as if it did, that would mean here are a heck of a lot of sociopaths out there). They may be just as hurt and in just a vulnerable place as the single person in the affair may be.

 

trust me...if you ever have the misfortune to run into a true psychopath you'll know the difference between them and someone who's simply making some poor choices.

[carhill]

Here's the question the OP asked:

 

 

"Do you think serial MMs typically set out to prey on women they think are insecure or longing for a relationship or the likes? "

 

How many times can he be hurt and vulnerable in one lifetime, all around the same exact dynamic, and so conveniently?? Does this translate to other dynamics or is it specific to infidelity?

 

Definition of sociopath (now known as ASPD), from the DSM:

 

'Antisocial personality disorder (ASPD) is described by the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, fourth edition (DSM-IV-TR), as an Axis II personality disorder characterized by "...a pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others that begins in childhood or early adolescence and continues into adulthood."[1]'

 

TBH, most of the men and women I've known who have disclosed their 'proclivities' for serial cheating are or were, by their own admission, mentally ill. A striking commonality has been Bi-polar disease. These are people who routinely have few/no boundaries regarding romantic fidelity nor, in general, trustworthiness in dealings with non-romantic parties. IOW, always watch your back around them. I learned that lesson the hard way.

 

This is a far cry from someone who found themselves hurt and vulnerable in a LTR or M and reached out inappropriately for the love of another human, or circumstantially found a co-worker attractive and acted inappropriately. It's a pattern of behavior and psychology which permeates all their interactions in the world, which is not to say that they can't *appear* generous and loving circumstantially. They can. It's part of sociopathy, 'thinking' interactions with a plan and the appearance being one of the pragmatic tools of achieving the goal.

 

Again, *serial* cheaters, those who have a lifetime pattern of the behavior, from a young age, are the ones IME who trend to the sociopathic/ASPD.

 

Having experienced the gamut, from cheaters to serial cheaters to the mentially ill, including psychosis, I offer this perspective.

[carhill]

Hey, I noticed something just now and have over the last couple days.... I posted a reply which included a description of sociopathy provided by Wikipedia and linked to the article and saw a brief ditty about a 'moderator approving this post' bla, bla and then it disappeared. I've seen this happen a few other times and think that they've installed some software to re-direct posts for moderation if they contain links of any sort. It isn't consistent yet, as I thought only .com links were redirected but Wiki is a .org, but maybe they're experimenting.

 

Anyway, hopefully the other post will show up as it's got some good experience and explanation in it. In the meantime, be watchful of links.

[Brokenlady]

Do you think serial MMs typically set out to prey on women they think are insecure or longing for a relationship or the likes?

 

I'm starting to wonder (since my EA and my friend's recent brush with MM) whether they use psychology to prey on their preys. Assuming that those that are good with it say and do things they think women like and will fall for so MMs get what they want.

 

I'm sure some do- though I seriously doubt it involves and "psychological research". Some people are just geared to selfishness, manipulativeness, and taking advantage of others. They've learned what works all through life experience. Many are probably clinically personality-disordered.

[PinkInTheLimo]

About being a "sociopath"...simply cheating on one's spouse does not make one a "sociopath" ( as if it did, that would mean here are a heck of a lot of sociopaths out there). They may be just as hurt and in just a vulnerable place as the single person in the affair may be.

 

I think there are a lot of sociopaths out there, in the book "The Sociopath Next Door" Martha Stout claims they are 4% of the population.

 

I don't buy it that cheaters are just hurt and in a vulnerable place. I mean, for being hurt and a vulnerable place, they cause an awful lot of damage to other people!!! Such things do not happen like that, I think that someone who does this lacks a moral compass and is fundamentally flawed. I am sure that cheaters not only lie in their marriage and in their affair but also at work and in business.

I am far from perfect myself but I have never lied to anyone the way my ex lied to me. I simply don't have that kind of deception in me; I would never lie to someone about my feelings.

[LilMissMovinOn]

Some of the PUA behaviour that I have observed is fascinatingly similar to sociopathic behaviour.

 

Btw, I'm curious about one word that has been thrown around here: "Prey".

 

IMO labelling yourself as "prey" disempowers you. By extension, if the OW is prey than the MM must be a predator. Labelling the MM as a predator empowers him. Afterall, the role of prey is to be hunted by predators.

 

You are not some sickly animal. Nor is your MM a particularly wily beast.

 

Or should I say that if you do wish to build up your confidence and sense of self-worth, you should not view yourself as prey.

 

I beg to differ. I was very physically ill (heart attack) & grieving the recent death of a former partner when an ex who was already in a committed r.ship w someone else, targeted me. I ended up involved with this man as an OW but had no idea he was still in another r.ship. I live interstate from him & he travelled to my city for the sole purpose of seducing me (i.e he subsequently admitted this) although he pretended at the time to be 'passing through town' for reasons unrelated to me. He is a rampant serial cheater, has Narcissistc Personality Disorder & other addiction & mental health issues I knew nothing about when he reappeared (as these issues were not on board when were 1st a couple two decades ago). There is no doubt in my mind that I was his prey. He willfully deceived me & pursued me under false pretenses. Prey, in my case, is absolutely the correct word.

Edited December 5, 2011 by LilMissMovinOn

[LilMissMovinOn]

I think there are a lot of sociopaths out there, in the book "The Sociopath Next Door" Martha Stout claims they are 4% of the population.

 

I don't buy it that cheaters are just hurt and in a vulnerable place. I mean, for being hurt and a vulnerable place, they cause an awful lot of damage to other people!!! Such things do not happen like that, I think that someone who does this lacks a moral compass and is fundamentally flawed. I am sure that cheaters not only lie in their marriage and in their affair but also at work and in business.

I am far from perfect myself but I have never lied to anyone the way my ex lied to me. I simply don't have that kind of deception in me; I would never lie to someone about my feelings.

 

Ditto. This bears out in my exp also. The man who conned me into being an OW by leading me to believe he was single was lying to his employer & stealing from their business. I was very tempted to anonymously inform the police of the latter because if I'd been the business owners I'd have wanted to know that however decided against this due to fear of reprisal (i.e as far as I know I'm the only one who knew about the stealing although I don't know how much exactly was taken)...

[LilMissMovinOn]

Assuming a cheater sets out with the intention of having an A. I think in many cases, maybe most cases, that isn't true.

 

 

 

Many (sadly), although of course not all, I believe do exactly that. In my case the ex who deceived me into being an OW without me knowing this used to actually trawl websites advertising lonely / bored housewives. I suppose he thought if the other person was taken too there might be less of a chance of her exposing him, for fear of her spouse also being informed. I exposed him anyway (ie he was totally deluded to think I would allow him to get off scott free after doing such a hideous thing!!) Suffice to say I think many cheaters are chillingly pre-meditated with regards to their actions. This does not not neccessarily make them sociopaths (although some are) but many I believe are in fact personality disordered in one way or another.

 

PS One does not have to have 'issues' to fall foul of one of these cretins. I didn't (other than normal life things ie dealing with a time of grief / illness etc). I supect that's why I was able to extricate myself immediately upon learning the truth. These things are rarely cut & dried though ....

Edited December 5, 2011 by LilMissMovinOn

[sally12adams]

It's just that the sociopaths can smell that sensitivity and vulnerability from miles away and know exactly what to do or say to lure you into their trap.

 

I do not think this is untrue.

 

In the beginning, I had my boundaries, telling him it was a no no for me. But as we became just friends (at least on my part) and him being persistent, I ended up in the EA.

[Spark1111]

I do not think this is untrue.

 

In the beginning, I had my boundaries, telling him it was a no no for me. But as we became just friends (at least on my part) and him being persistent, I ended up in the EA.

 

Sally12, that's good insight.

 

What do you plan to do to ensure this doesn't happen to you again? That some serial (or not) cheating MM does not target you again?

 

I believe most people can spot vulnerability a mile away.

 

What boundaries would you enact in your life so that someone who is persistent never causes you to choose a painful path for yourself again?

[sally12adams]

Sally12, that's good insight.

 

What do you plan to do to ensure this doesn't happen to you again? That some serial (or not) cheating MM does not target you again?

 

I believe most people can spot vulnerability a mile away.

 

What boundaries would you enact in your life so that someone who is persistent never causes you to choose a painful path for yourself again?

 

Boundaries? Hell, I would enact boulders and build the Great Wall. Once I know someone is taken, I will not even engage in them in any way. So he does not even have the chance to smell any vulnerability or be persistent.

[Lemon Drop]

The same can be said for men MM or single who are salesmen.

 

Good salesmen know how to make you buy what they are selling. This doesn't mean anyone is mentally ill or has a disorder. Some people are more vulnerable to good salespeople than others are... doesn't matter if it is a man or a woman. Some people have people skills and know how to read what someone may want to buy.

 

Sometimes we think too much.

[sally12adams]

The same can be said for men MM or single who are salesmen.

 

Good salesmen know how to make you buy what they are selling. This doesn't mean anyone is mentally ill or has a disorder. Some people are more vulnerable to good salespeople than others are... doesn't matter if it is a man or a woman. Some people have people skills and know how to read what someone may want to buy.

 

Sometimes we think too much.

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Good point. But the bottom line is to have clear boundaries and consciously stay away from MMs.

 

As for other single men that could turn out to be PUAs, clear boundaries should help so that any psychology will not have a chance to work on you.

 

I guess experience too. Some lessons have to be learnt. After that, it is up to us to learn from them and not be fooled again.

[frozensprouts]

I think there are a lot of sociopaths out there, in the book "The Sociopath Next Door" Martha Stout claims they are 4% of the population.

 

I don't buy it that cheaters are just hurt and in a vulnerable place. I mean, for being hurt and a vulnerable place, they cause an awful lot of damage to other people!!! Such things do not happen like that, I think that someone who does this lacks a moral compass and is fundamentally flawed. I am sure that cheaters not only lie in their marriage and in their affair but also at work and in business.

I am far from perfect myself but I have never lied to anyone the way my ex lied to me. I simply don't have that kind of deception in me; I would never lie to someone about my feelings.

 

 

turn your statement around...some single people who get into relationships blame the married person for "preying" on them because they were vulnerable... they got into the relationship because they didn't realize they were in it until it was too late, they were hurt and vulnerable, whatever. I don't dispute those ideas, but if they apply to single people, then they can apply to married people too...affairs cause a lot of pain for all involved, and it takes two to be in a relationship, the married person and their affair partner. If a married person can say "no" to an affair, then so can a single person...it works both ways...both are responsible for their choices and actions...it isn't all "the other person's fault"...putting it all on either person in the affair takes away the power of both to control their own lives... I don't like that idea.

 

( btw, a figure frequently tossed around on here is that 50% of married men/women will cheat... and if every person who cheats is a "psychopath" wouldn't that mean there are an awful lot of psychopaths out there?

[skywriter]

sally12adams

I guess experience too. Some lessons have to be learnt. After that, it is up to us to learn from them and not be fooled again.

 

 

That is how I feel , thank you for expressing that, sally!

[Heart On]

Hindsight is 20/20.

[skywriter]

Heart On;Hindsight is 20/20

 

Yes Mam' it is! I'm keeping my eyes wide opened in the future!

[Heart On]

No one see's them coming,but they sure as hell feel them going!~

 

http://www.narcissisticabuse.com/2011/10/characteristics-of-the-narcissist/

[sally12adams]

I did not start this thread to absolve myself from any blame or make people see that all MMs are horrible people that deserve to die.

 

I just wanted to know if my experience is common and since I am interested in psychology, albeit amaterish at it, I am interested to read others' views on it.

 

It was more like something we can discuss and share.

[Heart On]

Believe me,no one could convince me that a man or woman who can easily lie to his wife or her husband about allegedly being in love with another man or woman or even just having sex with him or her doesn't have some serious anti-social/narcissitic traits.

 

The first place I found that helped me understand my xMM was Narcissism forums and most of those people GET IT!~

 

What "we" as the used,fooled or played Narcissistic Supply wind up doing is being groomed into the situation to the point we believe thier lies and fall prey to thier manipulations,no less than thier wives do!

 

And those of us who completely protect them wind up being betrayal bonded to them. I posted some seriously valid and important sights that helped me SURVIVE my xMMNarcissist.

 

NO.I am not a professional but I most certainly had to SEE one during my ordeal,and she assured me that I was reacting normally to abnormal behaviors of a Narcissist.

 

I didn't become clinically depressed in the aftermath for nothing!Nor did I get left holding the bag by a man who actually had the capacity to CARE about anyone but his own image.

 

So yeah....I truly doubt most of them are just "good people" who just need better sex lives. They can be truly exploitive individual's with serious personality disorders.

 

Who in thier right mind,takes risks the way these people do without so much as a conscience or the choice to simply divorce first?

 

Mine was all the worse,because he USED his profession to exploit me and hide the truth from his wife.

 

A pathological liar...lies to BOTH his ow and his BW and isn't that pretty much the only way to conduct an EMR?

 

 

I did not start this thread to absolve myself from any blame or make people see that all MMs are horrible people that deserve to die.

 

I just wanted to know if my experience is common and since I am interested in psychology, albeit amaterish at it, I am interested to read others' views on it.

 

It was more like something we can discuss and share

 

Sally,don't sweat the people who can't fathom that thier xmm or mm was a sociopathic love fraud.

Then they would have to admit that they were intentionally played for fools and WHO WANTS to realize that when they sacrificed so damn much for them?

 

I sure didn't....but in the end,it was the only possible conclusion to come to considering ALL the N-Traits were there....I was just manipulated into only seeing what he wanted me to see about him!

[LilMissMovinOn]

Believe me,no one could convince me that a man or woman who can easily lie to his wife or her husband about allegedly being in love with another man or woman or even just having sex with him or her doesn't have some serious anti-social/narcissitic traits.

 

The first place I found that helped me understand my xMM was Narcissism forums and most of those people GET IT!~

 

What "we" as the used,fooled or played Narcissistic Supply wind up doing is being groomed into the situation to the point we believe thier lies and fall prey to thier manipulations,no less than thier wives do!

 

And those of us who completely protect them wind up being betrayal bonded to them. I posted some seriously valid and important sights that helped me SURVIVE my xMMNarcissist.

 

NO.I am not a professional but I most certainly had to SEE one during my ordeal,and she assured me that I was reacting normally to abnormal behaviors of a Narcissist.

 

I didn't become clinically depressed in the aftermath for nothing!Nor did I get left holding the bag by a man who actually had the capacity to CARE about anyone but his own image.

 

So yeah....I truly doubt most of them are just "good people" who just need better sex lives. They can be truly exploitive individual's with serious personality disorders.

 

Who in thier right mind,takes risks the way these people do without so much as a conscience or the choice to simply divorce first?

 

Mine was all the worse,because he USED his profession to exploit me and hide the truth from his wife.

 

A pathological liar...lies to BOTH his ow and his BW and isn't that pretty much the only way to conduct an EMR?

 

 

 

 

Sally,don't sweat the people who can't fathom that thier xmm or mm was a sociopathic love fraud.

Then they would have to admit that they were intentionally played for fools and WHO WANTS to realize that when they sacrificed so damn much for them?

 

I sure didn't....but in the end,it was the only possible conclusion to come to considering ALL the N-Traits were there....I was just manipulated into only seeing what he wanted me to see about him!

 

I AM a professional with abuse expertise & yr spot on. I would add tht although not all married ppl who hav affairs hav P.D's (i.e anyone can make poor decisions / a mistake - once), those who do this habitually & repeatedly are highly likely to be personality disordered, sex addicted or both.

 

Thankyou for sending ppl looking in the right right direction with that link also.

 

[LilMissMovinOn]

Here's the question the OP asked:

 

 

"Do you think serial MMs typically set out to prey on women they think are insecure or longing for a relationship or the likes? "

 

How many times can he be hurt and vulnerable in one lifetime, all around the same exact dynamic, and so conveniently?? Does this translate to other dynamics or is it specific to infidelity?

 

Definition of sociopath (now known as ASPD), from the DSM:

 

'Antisocial personality disorder (ASPD) is described by the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, fourth edition (DSM-IV-TR), as an Axis II personality disorder characterized by "...a pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others that begins in childhood or early adolescence and continues into adulthood."[1]'

 

TBH, most of the men and women I've known who have disclosed their 'proclivities' for serial cheating are or were, by their own admission, mentally ill. A striking commonality has been Bi-polar disease. These are people who routinely have few/no boundaries regarding romantic fidelity nor, in general, trustworthiness in dealings with non-romantic parties. IOW, always watch your back around them. I learned that lesson the hard way.

 

This is a far cry from someone who found themselves hurt and vulnerable in a LTR or M and reached out inappropriately for the love of another human, or circumstantially found a co-worker attractive and acted inappropriately. It's a pattern of behavior and psychology which permeates all their interactions in the world, which is not to say that they can't *appear* generous and loving circumstantially. They can. It's part of sociopathy, 'thinking' interactions with a plan and the appearance being one of the pragmatic tools of achieving the goal.

 

Again, *serial* cheaters, those who have a lifetime pattern of the behavior, from a young age, are the ones IME who trend to the sociopathic/ASPD.

 

Having experienced the gamut, from cheaters to serial cheaters to the mentially ill, including psychosis, I offer this perspective.

 

Well put!!

 

My situation was one of unknowingly becoming an OW in a situation with someone who was an ex. His diagnosis? Bi polar Disorder, Narcissistic Personality Disorder & Substance Abuse Disorder. I pinged the BP which was later confirmed & medicated. I also steered him toward long term residential treatment for substance abuse.

 

Interestingly, I note that talk of 'will I ever win him/her or not' falls off the radar for those caught in the web of a serial cheater in light of these issues. Think about what you'd be 'winning' folks. It's no prize & is highly likely to ultimately destroy you. (Something I noted early in my career counselling abused women).

 

Some of my former clients were at the mercy of such men (as the BS or otherwise) for DECADES & paid a heavy price in all areas. I often felt very sad for these women as I knew if only they'd up stumps & LEFT HIM decades EARLIER their lives could have been so different. Many were already retired so it was too late to start over financially. Don't be one of these women!!!

[LilMissMovinOn]

Well put!!

 

My situation was one of unknowingly becoming an OW in a situation with someone who was an ex. His diagnosis? Bi polar Disorder, Narcissistic Personality Disorder & Substance Abuse Disorder. I pinged the BP which was later confirmed & medicated. I also steered him toward long term residential treatment for substance abuse.

 

Interestingly, I note that talk of 'will I ever win him/her or not' falls off the radar for those caught in the web of a serial cheater in light of these issues. Think about what you'd be 'winning' folks. It's no prize & is highly likely to ultimately destroy you. (Something I noted early in my career counselling abused women).

 

Some of my former clients were at the mercy of such men (as the BS or otherwise) for DECADES & paid a heavy price in all areas. I often felt very sad for these women as I knew if only they'd up stumps & LEFT HIM decades EARLIER their lives could have been so different. Many were already retired so it was too late to start over financially. Don't be one of these women!!!

 

PS I forgot to add tht he also had a problem w gambling & sex addiction. Only the substance abuse was known to me at 1st, however, the type & extent of this was deliberately downplayed. The rest didn't emerge until near the very end. This individual is what professionals in the sector refer to as 'a hamburger/ enchilada/one w the lot'. Talk about seriously dysfunctional!

 

My diagnosis? Well, apart frm evetually being diagnosed w reactive depression for other issues, NONE! My part in it all was merely to have once loved this person many yrs ago, prior to the myriad of co-occurring diagnoses emerging. If I had stayed though I would have ended up meeting the criteria for relational dependence (aka co-dependence). Suffice to say that as soon as I got the full picture, I did NOT stay. I hope tht by sharing my story others will realise that anyone can be tricked & fooled by such master manipulators. We are not responsible for what such ppl do to us, but once we know the truth, we are certainly responsible for our response to it.

 

Cheers all.

Edited January 15, 2012 by LilMissMovinOn