El Brujo Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 If we have to pray to God (or gods), then it implies he's not omniscient, because we have to tell him stuff. If we have to worship Him, it implies he's not omnipotent, because a deity is not a deity unless someone worships him/her/it. Can God lose his divinity if no one prays to him or worships him? Have any theologians discussed this idea? Link to post Share on other sites
devil moth Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I ponder these things daily... that's why I went back to my wicca ways x_x Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 If we have to pray to God (or gods), then it implies he's not omniscient, because we have to tell him stuff. If we have to worship Him, it implies he's not omnipotent, because a deity is not a deity unless someone worships him/her/it. Can God lose his divinity if no one prays to him or worships him? Have any theologians discussed this idea? We don't "have to" tell him stuff. God knows our thoughts and what goes on in our lives, but He still desires the communication from those that He loves, His children, just like we desire communication from those we love. You fail to realize that God doesn't need us. We need Him. We rely on Him for our very existence and all of our needs, whether you realize that or not. He doesn't need our worship of Him to validate Him. We choose to worship Him as an acknowledgement of His importance in our lives, and as an acknowledgement of Him as the creator and the One who is deserving of our praise. God's existence and position as creator is not reliant on our actions. Link to post Share on other sites
Author El Brujo Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 I don't pray to a dead-guy-on-a-stick or any other silliness. Hahahahahaha!!!!! Well, there may be a more poetic way to put it... Link to post Share on other sites
Codez Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I believe prayer, meditation, mantras and ect.. to be a "permission slip" to being who you are and what works for you. You don't NEED to partake in any of these, but you CAN if it helps you become MORE of who you are. The only thing in life that we must understand, is that as long as you choose what is morally positive over what is morally negative then you have nothing to worry about. Its all about intention. That determines negative and positive. I don't believe 'worshipping' is necessary. As long as you live life positive, with gratitude and love, you'll be meeting the requirements of a good person. Link to post Share on other sites
somedude81 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Damn, I can't remember the last time I prayed to God. All I do now is cuss at him. Link to post Share on other sites
Feelin Frisky Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 God and heaven and hell only make sense in a "flat world" view of the universe. They didn't jail Galileo for nothing. The secret has been out for over 500 years but many powerful and invested forces refuse to let it go and scare little kids before they have a choice of truth or belief. The weather changes for reasons we now understand and maps are no longer produced with a bearded guy in a corner blowing the winds from his mouth. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
startrekfan Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 (edited) my opinion is that most people do it for comfort. also, some people need the community and fellowship that religion and churches give. i don't personally think it's worth it though. even being wiccan can have some of the same ridiculous crap. "I believe prayer, meditation, mantras and ect.. to be a "permission slip" to being who you are and what works for you." prayer can be like focused thought. well, actually it is thought. back to comfort, it's like the idea that maybe someone or something is listening. but, i think ultimately we're better off without that. also, God is what you define it. so, if to you God is your idea of ultimate good then that's cool. that's an actual set of circumstances (being with family and friends) or maybe a certain feeling of peace you get or something that you call God. even then, the word is more trouble than it's worth in my opinion. for worship, on a simple level people probably enjoy dressing up and singing songs together. some of them are catchy, and if you go to church enough you probably know the words. it's like how drinking games "make" you drink. church "makes" you dress up and sing songs. also, again, i think it's a comfort thing. Edited December 10, 2011 by startrekfan Link to post Share on other sites
Lobouspo Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 For us believers, we pray and worship for our benefit. Genuine prayer and worship brings us closer to God. Prayer has pulled me through some pretty difficult times in my life,and I can honestly say I have seen some pretty astonishing and miraculous things as a result of prayer. I would not trade my faith for anything. Do I struggle with my faith at times? Of course. Do I have all the answers? No way....but that is what believing in something bigger than ourselves is all about. Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 For us believers, we pray and worship for our benefit. Genuine prayer and worship brings us closer to God. Prayer has pulled me through some pretty difficult times in my life,and I can honestly say I have seen some pretty astonishing and miraculous things as a result of prayer. I would not trade my faith for anything. Do I struggle with my faith at times? Of course. Do I have all the answers? No way....but that is what believing in something bigger than ourselves is all about. Well said. I also have witnessed the power of prayer, as have many people that I know, and I fully believe in it. Link to post Share on other sites
Lostinlife4now Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 We don't "have to" tell him stuff. God knows our thoughts and what goes on in our lives, but He still desires the communication from those that He loves, His children, just like we desire communication from those we love. You fail to realize that God doesn't need us. We need Him. We rely on Him for our very existence and all of our needs, whether you realize that or not. He doesn't need our worship of Him to validate Him. We choose to worship Him as an acknowledgement of His importance in our lives, and as an acknowledgement of Him as the creator and the One who is deserving of our praise. God's existence and position as creator is not reliant on our actions. KathyM: I couldn't have said it better myself! Prayer and God have gotten me thru some pretty horrific things in my life. Negative or Positive in my life I know God is there for me. Link to post Share on other sites
Breezy Trousers Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) That's assuming you believe in duality. I don't anymore. God doesn't need our prayer or worship. We need prayer and worship to heal our perceived separation from God. In truth, there's no separation so there's "other" to worship or pray to anyway. God IS, here and now, in each of us. Our perception of that fact is blocked. Prayer & worship are merely useful human tools for cutting through that veil of illusion. The problem is that God is usually thought about and debated (theologians) rather than directly experienced (mystics). After he had his first mystical/direct experience with God, St. Thomas Aquinas, the great Catholic theologian who churned out book after book of philosophy, went silent and remained silent for the rest of his life, never writing again. When asked why, he replied, “I cannot go on.... All that I have written seems to me like so much straw compared to what I have seen and what has been revealed to me.” Whatever he witnessed -- directly experienced - humbled him into complete silence. God goes beyond mind and concept. Edited December 14, 2011 by Breezy Trousers Link to post Share on other sites
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