How do you deal with a co-dependent, manipulaitve, and melodramatic sibling?

[LoveTKO]

Do you feel beholden to an older sibling who refuses to pony up and take charge of his or her life?

 

How about when they use manipulative tactics--"you're my brother and you promised that you would help(threat/guilt).....I know, you don't have to..I'll make it some how I guess (guilt)...mom and dad always treated you better, and my life sucks because of our parents (blame)--as means to rope you in to their web?

 

What about if said sibling refuses to make a concerted effort to find employment but blames everything on an ex spouse instead?

 

And what do you do when your aging parents no longer have the wherewithal to discern objectivity from emotionally charged drama, thereby pressuring you into helping said sibling, all because they're old and feeling lonely?

 

Welcome to my world.....................advice?

Edited December 8, 2011 by LoveTKO

[sLiPpeTh]

Ah, yes...the "web."

 

Me? I'll help anyone who has and/or is willing to help me. I won't let someone help me, if I suspect the help will bring harm to them.

 

Obviously, your sibling isn't operating on a reciprocal basis. Which is a broad assumption on my part. Let me do ask though? When was the last time they did something nice for you, not expecting anything in return?

 

Or has that relationship just been primarily wanting you to give; and all take?

 

Personally, I'd tell them to F* off in a nice way.

[quankanne]

as hard as it it, just walk away. You don't need to get caught up in the toxic life of a psychological/emotional vampire, even if that person is blood kin.

 

next time your sib tries guilting you into doing something, simply tell him/her that you're not interested in dealing with self-induced drama, then just walk away. If your parents try to get in on it, remind them that while you love your bro/sis, you don't put up with that kind of behavior or treatment from others, and that you shouldn't have to be expected to put up with it from sib.

 

the hard part is sticking to your guns, but believe me, your life will be a hell of a lot stressful when they realized you refused to be sucked into that kind of drama.

[LoveTKO]

Help him/her, but to a limit. It's cliche, but help comes to those who help themselves.

 

Sit down with all family members, and work out a deal in their presence. If your sibling doesn't conform, then don't provide any help until they do.

 

We have in a way, but this has been going on for over 10 years, with her using the blame game constantly as to why she's in the mess she's in. I have disavowed her a long time ago. The issue, however, is that my mom is starting to take her side a bit because she's feeling lonely in her old age. I am a clear thinker and have the ability to detect the tactics of a highly skilled manipulator who uses guilt, fear, and obligation as a means to get at you. My other sibling and relatives agree with me and they understand the game that's being played.

[writergal]

We have in a way, but this has been going on for over 10 years, with her using the blame game constantly as to why she's in the mess she's in. I have disavowed her a long time ago. The issue, however, is that my mom is starting to take her side a bit because she's feeling lonely in her old age. I am a clear thinker and have the ability to detect the tactics of a highly skilled manipulator who uses guilt, fear, and obligation as a means to get at you. My other sibling and relatives agree with me and they understand the game that's being played.

 

When did it all start? Was there an event in your family's life or your sister's life that started her downhill spiral?

 

Does she have a personality disorder, disease, bad luck? Sometimes it really isn't the person's fault, but is a mix of circumstances; lack of social network support, job skills, motivation, self esteem.

 

Does she ask you or your mother for money? Do you three triangulate her out of your lives, and just treat her like the family dog? She probably picks up on her alienation from the family circle which is why she asks you all for money all the time. She knows she's been ousted and doesn't know how to get back into the inner circle that you and your mother and other sibling (sister or brother) have created. When my father died, that's what my mother, sister and brother did to me...they "triangulated" i.e. ousted me, since I was already fulfilling the family lost child/scapegoat role to a degree, and I am the oldest of three children. The family therapist we saw after my father's death started to address my mother, sister and brother's contribution to our family dysfunction, but they didn't like it so they all decide to quit the therapy. My siblings and mother refused to take responsibility for their part of our family's dysfunction. They refused to acknowledge their roles because it's not just one person who causes the dysfunction, it's everyone. The person who exhibits dysfunction (personality disorder, addiction, alcoholism) is just acting out the entire family's problems because they are the target. Someone has to take the blame for everyone else's problems, so then the family work together to pin that on one person, who becomes the lost child/scapegoat. It's a numbers game, family dysfunction because someone always has to take the fall for everyone else who want to stay in denial. By having one person to blame (your sister in your case, me in my family's case), the rest of the family are content to live their life in denial of the family's problems, and so they protect themselves emotionally by shutting out the dysfunctional family member by the way they "disavow" that person from their life. So, I'm asking you to take a hard look at yourself and the way you treat your sister that may contribute to her behavior. If you don't, you'll never see how you contributed to her downfall. She didn't do this all by herself. It never happens that way. People push other people down; in schools (bullying) in families (triangulation) and the workplace (harassment, alienation, one-up'ing, etc.). It's all about who has the power, who wants the power, and who can't get the power so they get sacrificed. The goal of dysfunctional families is to blame one person as the problem as a cover up to the larger problems going on, which the other family members don't want to address because that means they have to take some responsibility which isn't pleasant to deal with.

 

My brother (a jerk) tried to pin the family dysfunction as my fault, after our father died (which is typical for a dysfunctional family to do when a loss of a family member is experience...transference happens). Then I had a terrible accident and the hospital social worker told him that I had a personality disorder without even testing me, mind you, just her "opinion." Forget the fact that I was on like 5 different kinds of drugs with a traumatic brain injury and didn't know where I was for the first five days of my recovery (meanwhile, I had a flood of friends visiting me throughout my hospital stay). But my brother has believed that stupid hospital social worker's "opinion" to this day, despite my efforts to show him physical proof (letters from doctors) that said otherwise (no personality disorder). Forget the fact that he has done some heinous things to me growing up (push me through our basement bathroom's shower wall when he got angry at me, or push me off a moving pontoon boat because he was angry, or leave me on the side of the road on the drive to our uncle's funeral because I was reading a celebrity gossip magazine which is against his conservative religious views...which he's never apologized to me for doing, which I think is sick). So behind my back, this is how my family labels me, despite my efforts to try to take control of my life.

 

By no means am I defending your sister's predicament. However, I've been in her shoes for the past ten years of my life living "off the system" in my state not because I want to, but because I have to, even while I've been in graduate school for the past three years and it's been hell. It's not like I decided at ten years old, "oh gee, I think I'll grow up to ruin my own life and be a bag lady, single with no children by the time I'm 40." It wasn't until I decided to go back to grad school to get a masters and a teaching license that I felt like I'd finally taken charge of my life - and I'm 40. Like your sister, I had held jobs here and there for the past 20 years, but like you described couldn't hold on to the jobs or acquaintances or friendships, but for different reasons.

 

All I'm saying is that you should not put the blame entirely on your sister. You have a dysfunctional family system so everyone is to blame; not just her. And usually, the family lost child or scapegoat is the family members' receptacle for their own issues they don't want to confront (according to my family therapist). So if your mother feels guilty it's probably because she wasn't treating your sister very fairly. If you and your other sibling have "disavowed" your sister, you can believe that she knows and feels your alienation. She's already down and out. How do you think that makes her feel? Have you ever put yourself in her shoes? Like me, I highly doubt she wants to live off welfare and not get her life together.

 

And if you hate her so much, then stop giving her money and estrange yourself from her so that you don't have to deal with her anymore. She's not playing a game. Stop blaming her by saying that. I repeat. She's not playing a game. Take some responsibility here and see how you and your family members have created this situation based on the way you treat your sister and your actions. If you aren't willing to take some responsibility for alienating her then you'll never understand the situation. My sister, brother and mother continue to reject the family therapists' suggestions, and continue to treat me the way she told them not too because dysfunction is a comfortable yet toxic pattern they are used to. Anytime I try to assert myself or create boundaries they accuse me of playing games, the way you have described your sister as playing games. I know I'm coming down hard on you but I'm in your sister's shoes so I'm trying to give you her perspective so that you can step back and see the bigger picture. I also empathize with you and your family who financially drain yourself to support her. Maybe you need to cut her off so she will take control of her life and stop mooching off you which creates your anger and resentment and mistrust. Stop the cycle by taking action. That's your only option at this point.

Edited December 16, 2011 by writergal

[LoveTKO]

A peson's personality disorder, lack of self esteem, narcissism, being the incarnation of the anti-Christ, possessed, substance abuse, grifter, etc., is not my problem. If it is my child, absolutely! A sibling? We'll help you out for a year or two, put come on...you have to get your **** together after a while, right? You can't blame family dynamics, abandonment issues, co-dependency on everything now can you?

 

I have learned that if a person isn't truly committed to helping themselves, all your effort and support is merely a band-aid, a stalling measure that only delays the inevitable.

[writergal]

A peson's personality disorder, lack of self esteem, narcissism, being the incarnation of the anti-Christ, possessed, substance abuse, grifter, etc., is not my problem. If it is my child, absolutely! A sibling? We'll help you out for a year or two, put come on...you have to get your **** together after a while, right? You can't blame family dynamics, abandonment issues, co-dependency on everything now can you?

 

I have learned that if a person isn't truly committed to helping themselves, all your effort and support is merely a band-aid, a stalling measure that only delays the inevitable.

 

I never said that you caused your sister's problems. She caused her own problems as a reaction to your entire family's dynamics...whatever those are. I don't believe for a moment that personality disorders, etc. are biological. I believe those are socially caused, that they are maladaptive coping strategies to really messed up family dynamics. But you have to take a look at the larger picture. The family system is the first lens a person looks through, and is the template people use with how they relate to and interact with the outside world. The family system is where a person's psycho-social development is formed and where their role is formed.

 

If you're sister is such a loser then why are you bothering to help her? If it's causing you great emotional pain, great financial drain and misery then you need to stop helping her. Stop taking her calls, stop being her go-to for financial support. As miserable as I am having to rely on food from a food shelf, I feel good because I'm not asking my sister, brother or mother for money...anymore. I guilted my mother into financially supplementing my income for my first two years of grad school because she and I have always had a volatile relationship. Oil and water she and I. She did it out of sheer guilt I'm sure. That's the only way she and I associate with each other, as a bank teller to a customer. Now that I'm one semester away from finishing my graduate school program, the pressure is on me to succeed so that I can finally start my own life without the codependent life support system I've been on, in a "life coma" so to speak. I told my mother that I would start to repay her as soon as I got on my feet financially. But that realistically may be a couple of years away since I have to pass my license exams, find a job, then budget my student loan repayments with rent, etc. I may be on welfare even while employed as a teacher. But at least I"ll have my own identity.

 

All I can tell you is that you have to cut your sister out of your life and you're not wrong to do that. Or take a break from her for a year or two. It's completely acceptable. My whole diatribe about the family system was to prompt you to see the bigger picture, how your family system influenced your sister to turn out the way she did. That's all.

 

I totally agree with you that offering her help is a stalling measure, because it is. She's not really learning to fix her life when she knows her family will be there for her. So she has no incentive to change. She's complacent in her family role as the "loser" and knows she won't really suffer because her brother and other family members will always take care of her

Edited December 16, 2011 by writergal

[RecordProducer]

Do you feel beholden to an older sibling who refuses to pony up and take charge of his or her life?

 

How about when they use manipulative tactics--"you're my brother and you promised that you would help(threat/guilt).....I know, you don't have to..I'll make it some how I guess (guilt)...mom and dad always treated you better, and my life sucks because of our parents (blame)--as means to rope you in to their web?

 

What about if said sibling refuses to make a concerted effort to find employment but blames everything on an ex spouse instead?

 

And what do you do when your aging parents no longer have the wherewithal to discern objectivity from emotionally charged drama, thereby pressuring you into helping said sibling, all because they're old and feeling lonely?

 

Welcome to my world.....................advice?

Objectively, there is only one good advice:

 

DO NOT DO IT!

 

If, however, your brother is generally a responsible person and just needs a kickstart - or it's a matter of life and death - then help him. But if he is just too good to pump gas or wait tables, then helping him will only make you an enabler - AND you'll never hear a sincere thank you. Just my couple cents...

Edited December 16, 2011 by RecordProducer