My wife's friends won't listen to me!

[Gerhard]

My wife appears to have borderline personality disorder. The only reason I stay with her is because I love her.

 

Over the course of the last couple years, my wife has threatened to commit suicide, has physically assaulted me, has vandalized or physically destroyed property in our house in fits of rage. She has also driven her car dangerously in fits of rage. Given this behavior, it is my feeling she could easily end up getting arrested for reckless driving, physical assault or vandalism. Among the things she has done are slamming some glasses on the ground, slammed a valuable lamp onto the ground and tried to run me over with her car.

 

I have tried to discuss these things with my wife, but she will not discuss any of this with me. I have tried to get my wife to see a doctor or counselor for this, but she has refused to go. My wife purports to be a Christian and had us going to church together, but she exhibits quite a lot of very non-Christian like behaviors. On more than one occasion, my wife has claimed that her un-Christian like and violent behavior as well as her fits of rage were excusable because she said she is a Christian. The church offers counseling programs for people with conditions such as the one my wife has as well as for couples in which one person has a serious behavioral condition, but when I suggested we go to the Christian church for counseling, she refused to go. I have tried to reach out to some of her close friends to see if they can help her, but while they have each tried to help, my wife continues to engage in this behavior.

 

Now when I try to get her friends to help, she reports back to me that her friends are siding with her - that all of my allegations are false. I therefore see these friends as enablers - encouraging her to continue to engage in this childish behavior. Any suggestions?

[Quiet Storm]

Borderlines constantly lie. She is likely portraying herself as the victim of you to her friends.

 

Instead of worrying about how her friends are enabling her, focus on yourself and recognize that you may be enabling her, as well.

 

The behavior may be "childish", but it's not something that she can just stop. If she does have BPD, she isn't capable of normal emotional reactions and this is just the way she operates.

[PinkInTheLimo]

I therefore see these friends as enablers - encouraging her to continue to engage in this childish behavior. Any suggestions?

 

Who are her friends? Fellow Asian golddiggers who married an older guy from a rich country to try to suck as much money out of him as possible?

Of course they will tell her she is right.

 

You are as much an enabler as they are, Gerhard, because you stay in that marriage.

I am not so sure that your wife suffers from BPD. I think she is extremely controlling and abusive and she displays this behaviour because that way she is sure that you will do as much as possible to please her.

 

I will try to no longer react to your posts, Gerhard. It does not make sense, you repeat yourself. Her behaviour is unacceptable but she does not want to do something about it. Consequently there is only one solution: divorce her. She might kill herself (would be a great solution for everyone) or she will find another victim.

[Downtown]

Over the course of the last couple years, my wife has threatened to commit suicide, has physically assaulted me, has vandalized or physically destroyed property in our house in fits of rage. She has also driven her car dangerously in fits of rage.

Pink nailed it last April 3 when observing that "this is one mean disturbed woman." Pink urged you to divorce her then. Pink is good. Please listen to Pink.

My wife appears to have borderline personality disorder.

No, she appears to have strong traits of that disorder, as we discussed last April. If such traits are so strong they are making your life miserable -- which has been the case now for nearly four years -- you should divorce her and find an emotionally stable woman.

 

It does not matter whether her BPD traits -- e.g., the violence, verbal abuse, lack of trust, and instability -- are so severe that they meet all the diagnostic criteria for "having BPD." Even when BPD traits fall well short of that level, they can make your life miserable and undermine your marriage. Yet, if you are absolutely determined to stay with her, you should confirm your suspicions about BPD by visiting a clinical psychologist on your own -- without her being present. Describe what you've been dealing with to the psych.

The only reason I stay with her is because I love her.

No, emotionally healthy people walk away from such toxic relationships, usually within 18 months, even though they love the person they are leaving. The reason you are staying with her is that -- like I did for 15 years with my exW -- you are contributing to the problem. Significantly, it takes TWO willing partners to sustain a toxic relationship. Hence, the toxicity is not something SHE is doing to you. Rather, it is something you BOTH are doing to each other.

 

Your contribution to the toxicity is your decision to keep walking on eggshells around her for nearly four years -- in hopes of minimizing her temper tantrums. This dysfunctional behavior on your part is called "enabling" because you are enabling her to continue behaving like an angry, spoiled four year old -- and GET AWAY WITH IT!

 

In that way, you are harming her by preventing her from confronting her issues and learning how to manage them. For her to have any chance at all at confronting her issues, she must be allowed to suffer the logical consequences of her childish actions. And, of course, the most obvious logical consequence of behaving like a child is that your H will divorce you and find himself a mature wife.

Given this behavior, it is my feeling she could easily end up getting arrested for reckless driving, physical assault or vandalism.

More likely, she will have you arrested and thrown into jail, allowing her to ban you from your own home by obtaining a restraining order while you are in jail. That's what my exW did to me at the end of our 15 years together. It is very common in such relationships because a BPDer (i.e., person with strong BPD traits) can throw a tantrum for five hours and then, as soon as the police arrive, instantly transform into a calm "victim." They are excellent actors, as you already know.

I have tried to get my wife to see a doctor or counselor for this, but she has refused to go.

Even if she goes, it likely will do no good. Therapist Shari Schreiber says that you have a better chance flying to the moon strapped to a banana than ever seeing a BPDer remain in therapy long enough to make a difference. And even when they do remain in therapy at your insistence -- as my exW did for 15 years -- they typically play mind games instead of working on learning to manage their issues. I spent over $200,000 on six psychologists and 2 MCs for my exW's weekly visits -- all to no avail. Hence, although there are excellent treatment programs available, it is rare to see a BPDer have the self awareness and ego strength to actually pursue such treatment. Edited December 10, 2011 by Downtown

[steve38]

Very good advice from Downtown. I can say I spent many years in similar relationships and being a bit cluster B myself, it REALLY made things confusing If you don't have children together, you should run away....fast. And then figure out where you when wrong in attracting that type of woman. The world is your oyster. Accept it and rejoice in it. gl

[Downtown]

This doesn't sound like Borderline Personality at all - it sounds like BIPOLAR to me..

Poster, perhaps I am mistaken but I will share with you my experience. I am not a psychologist but I did live with a BPDer exW for 15 years and I've taken care of a bipolar foster son for longer than that. Moreover, I took both of them to a long series of psychologists every week for 15 years. Based on those experiences, I have found several clear differences between the two disorders.

 

One difference is seen in the frequency of mood changes. Bipolar mood swings are very slow because they are caused by gradual changes in body chemistry. They are considered rapid if as many as four occur in a year. In contrast, four BPD mood changes can easily occur in four days. Significantly, Gerhard has been describing such high frequency mood changes for over a year.

 

A second difference is seen in duration. Whereas bipolar moods typically last a week or two, BPD rages typically last only a few hours (and rarely as long as 36 hours). Again, Gerhard has been describing temper tantrums and hissy fits that are usually over in a few hours.

 

A third difference is seen in the speed with which the mood change develops. Whereas a bipolar change typically will build slowly over two weeks, a BPD change typically occurs in less than a minute -- often in only 10 seconds -- because it is event-triggered by some innocent comment or action. Because Gerhard has been describing such event-triggered rages, he has always had the feeling he is walking on eggshells around his W to avoid triggering her anger. This is why the #1 best-selling BPD book (targeted to the partners) is called Stop Walking on Eggshells.

 

A fourth difference is that, whereas bipolar can be treated very successfully in at least 80% of victims by swallowing a pill, BPD cannot be managed by medication because it arises from childhood damage to the emotional core -- not from a change in body chemistry.

 

A fifth difference is that, whereas bipolar disorder can cause people to be irritable and obnoxious during the manic phase, it does not rise to the level of meanness and vindictiveness you see when a BPDer is splitting you black. That difference is HUGE: while a manic person may regard you as an irritation, a BPDer can perceive you as Hitler and will treat you accordingly. As you observe, Gerhard says his W's behavior becomes very violent and abusive. IMO, he would be far safer if he were around a person suffering only from bipolar disorder.

 

A sixth difference is that a bipolar sufferer -- whether depressed or manic -- usually is able to trust you if she knows you well. Untreated BPDers, however, are unable to trust for an extended period -- even though they sometimes may claim otherwise. This lack of trust means there is no foundation on which to build a relationship. Significantly, Gerhard reports (his 5/5/09 post) that his W is very jealous and cannot trust him.

 

Finally, a seventh difference is that, whereas bipolar sufferers typically are mature adults with a body chemistry problem, BPDers are emotionally immature. They have a childlike quality because their emotional development was frozen at about age four. I mention this because Gerhard has been complaining about his W's immature and child-like behavior for over a year.

 

Yet, despite these seven clear differences between the two disorders, many people confuse the two. The primary source of this confusion seems to be the fact (according to a recent study funded by the NIMH) that one-fourth of BPD sufferers also have the bipolar-1 disorder.

[PinkInTheLimo]

Does not matter what the name of the beast is. It's a nasy beast and you cannot live with someone like that.

[Gerhard]

She's been acting like a zombie around the house for about a month now. Won't talk with me and won't look at me. Mouths off at me when I call her on the phone. I try to talk with her and she won't have a real conversation with me. I'm sensing that this is another tactic of hers to see if I will capitulate to her demands. If so, then when she realizes it won't work, then she'll go back to being her usual loving self. But if not and she's unwilling to go in for psychiatric treatment and/or counseling, then there will be no way I can love her any more and will have to boot her out of the house.

[Mme. Chaucer]

YOU are enabling her.

 

You say you "love" her, but aside from that, you have nothing complementary to say about her. On the contrary, you detail her bad behavior and you have been doing so here for years.

 

I think you didn't really know her AT ALL when she came here from whatever country she lived in. Is that the case?

 

I am not disputing that the behavior is bad. It's REALLY bad. If you have described it correctly, she probably has a serious problem.

 

But, you are staying through it. Complaining, but accepting it.

 

I hope you have honestly reached the place where you will require she goes for counseling (maybe you need marriage counseling) or you won't continue to be married to her.

[Deanster]

Downtown -

 

I can't thank you enough for your comprehensive and thoughtful posts. They really spoke to me, and my relationship situation. I've ordered 'Stop Walking on Eggshells', and will read it today.

 

I found your words compelling enough that I've copied and pasted both posts into my relationship notebook.

 

We'll see how things go, but you may well have just offered me life-changing insight. My gratitude is endless.

 

 

Pink - I think you're right on the money re: Gerhard's situation. I was sad to see you say you wouldn't respond further - clearly, there's some action that needs to be taken in that relationship, but it's also clear the poor guy is stuck in a loop, and can't get out. I'd encourage you to continue offering your very thoughtful input, until he's in a place where he might be able to do something useful with it.

 

Gerhard - dude, see the writing on the wall, and get out.

[Downtown]

Deanster, thanks for the kind words. I'm glad to hear that you found the BPD information useful. I intend to post in your latest thread.