NoIDidn't Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I've noticed that whether the OW gets the MM to leave the M or not, many OW continue to have negative feelings towards her. The typical is that the W has "no self-respect" or "only likes his paycheck". Then there are those that write that they'd never be with a man that can cheat for FIVE/SIX/SEVEN years, but they were with the guy during that time span doing the cheating. My question is: why? What does his W have to do with the failed attempt to get him to leave? Or, what does his W have to do with the bad feelings you have about the way he treated you in the end? Why blame the W for staying married, just like she did during your five/six/seven year affair? Why does it reflect only on her self-respect and not on yours? I ask because 2sure wisely said in another thread that true healing won't begin until the OW stops thinking about those married people (especially the ones that insist on staying married despite the duration of the affair and all the empty promises made during it) and starts thinking about how she's going to learn from the choice to be in an affair and grow from it. This thread isn't for bringing up that the W was stalking you or harassing you after she found out about the affair. This is simply about the slights and liberties taken against the W as if she personally caused all these bad feelings to surface or how he ended up with the lesser woman because he stayed married to the W he already had when the A started. Why do it? What benefit does it give the former OW to project such negative things on the W just for staying married to the guy? Regardless of her reasons. Link to post Share on other sites
TigerCub Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Why do you think some of those OW do what you claim? Link to post Share on other sites
imperfectangel Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 i hardly even think about his w. i dont know her name or what she looks like nor do i want to. if anything i feel bad for her that she legally tied to a loser like that Link to post Share on other sites
Brokenlady Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 NID, I don't believe that happens across the board. Personally, I can't stand my H's xw because she's an abusive witch, not because she had a death grip on her failed marriage. In some cases, it just happens to be true that the bw cares about money, status, and appearances above all else. They may be incredibly rare, but they are out there. By the same token, one could ask why a bw feels the need to think of the ow as a pathetic wretch with no self respect and delusions of grandeur. Again, that may be true in some cases, but not all. Link to post Share on other sites
Capris Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Take it easy Glinda, you're obviously projecting hate here. Link to post Share on other sites
18Years2Late Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 What about the BS's that bash the OW's?... The "lesser woman"?...yep...I'll have to remember that one...very true... Link to post Share on other sites
Fabian Montenegro Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 (edited) Doesn't matter if you are an OW or a BW. B^tches will be b^tches. and people that are emotionally hurting will behave like people that are emotionally hurting. Which may include some poorely chosen words and actions. Edited December 10, 2011 by Fabian Montenegro Link to post Share on other sites
MissBee Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I feel like one has to understand this type of thing within the context of hurt. I do think some OW as well as BS's and WS's can still be realistic, evenhanded, levelheaded people when everything comes to light but many more people don't respond in that manner and instead their feelings are misplaced....on to the W in this case. In a regular relationship that ends without any other person being in the picture, if one is the dumpee, often one will blame the dumper for ending things and hurting you (even if after a while you can agree that things needed to end). For a while I took no responsibility in my breakup and didn't see the potential for it to be a good thing, because I was the dumpee. I was hurt so blamed him for everything and demonized him as the cause of my pain. I think in As there is still that dynamic of being hurt and wanting to blame someone and take one's anger out on something outside of one's self....I can see how the W would be an easy target, esp if one is still inlove with the MM. It also depends on what issues you have....for some OW there seems to be a heavy element of competition between them and the W, sometimes fueled by the MM or sometimes it is their own issue that makes them behave as if it is a competition. They then spend lots of time thinking about the W and she is a huge figure in their mind to fight against or compete with. Link to post Share on other sites
MissBee Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 What about the BS's that bash the OW's?... The "lesser woman"?...yep...I'll have to remember that one...very true... I get what you're saying and many do realize this exists, but I wonder what is the point of bringing that up versus address the topic at hand? I too have opinions about BS's who berate OW and seem fixated on them more than their WS but that's another topic entirely.... But to address that....I do think it is naive not to expect that the person whose husband you're messing with is going to think poorly of you. I mean while I was in an A....I would have been a bit ridiculous to demand a BS respect me...for what??? Of course she won't. The one who would still respect and speak nicely about me would be the one that surprises me....not the former. Link to post Share on other sites
D-Lish Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I've just never understood why it becomes a woman vs. woman scenario. You've got a betrayed wife, and an OW- often both being misled by the MM- yet it seems HE is often exempt from contempt. I know it's not always this way- but it often is. The wife blames the affair partner, and the affair partner blames the wife... Does the MM have any accountability in the affair? It doesn't matter if he's just enjoying both women, staying in a marriage that he isn't happy with because of certain obligations, or stringing along another woman for his own personal satisfaction... He is accountable for his choices and actions as much as everyone else- regardless of his motivations. I initially hated the woman my H had an affair with- without having had met her- I hated the "notion" of her... However, when it came down to it, he made the choices he made knowing it was unfair to both of us. Link to post Share on other sites
18Years2Late Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I've just never understood why it becomes a woman vs. woman scenario. You've got a betrayed wife, and an OW- often both being misled by the MM- yet it seems HE is often exempt from contempt. I know it's not always this way- but it often is. The wife blames the affair partner, and the affair partner blames the wife... Does the MM have any accountability in the affair? It doesn't matter if he's just enjoying both women, staying in a marriage that he isn't happy with because of certain obligations, or stringing along another woman for his own personal satisfaction... He is accountable for his choices and actions as much as everyone else- regardless of his motivations. I initially hated the woman my H had an affair with- without having had met her- I hated the "notion" of her... However, when it came down to it, he made the choices he made knowing it was unfair to both of us. A very nice level-headed response from a BS...thank you... I think more often than not...the BS blames the OW and the WS also blames the OW...I mean if I were a BS wouldn't it b a little childish for my WS to say "well yeah I did that but only bc you did this"?...I'd laugh my a$$ off all the way to the lawyers office...it's much easier for all sides to blame the OW IMO... Just to b clear I never hated or berated the BS in my situation...however when she continued to berate me for 6 months after the A instead of laughing her a$$ off as she slammed the door in his face OR placing her attention where it belonged...all bets were off...I still don't hate her...I don't like her coping mechanisms... Link to post Share on other sites
D-Lish Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 A very nice level-headed response from a BS...thank you... I think more often than not...the BS blames the OW and the WS also blames the OW...I mean if I were a BS wouldn't it b a little childish for my WS to say "well yeah I did that but only bc you did this"?...I'd laugh my a$$ off all the way to the lawyers office...it's much easier for all sides to blame the OW IMO... Just to b clear I never hated or berated the BS in my situation...however when she continued to berate me for 6 months after the A instead of laughing her a$$ off as she slammed the door in his face OR placing her attention where it belonged...all bets were off...I still don't hate her...I don't like her coping mechanisms... I'm very level headed:) I'm also very pro-woman, wanting all women to demand the very best for themselves. I would give the same advice if it was MW having an affair. It doesn't matter if you're being betrayed, or in an affair- there is always the comment element of THE GUY in the middle. I often find in these forums that HE gets off, while the rest of us fight... We are all accountable for our own actions. My ex-H included. I wasn't a perfect wife, he wasn't a perfect H... The OW wasn't perfect either. It just seems more often than not that in this forum that us women want to combat one another while our guy sits back and enjoys the perks. The MM is just as accountable as the rest of us. The wife for knowing what is going on and choosing to stay, the OW for choosing to to stay when he won't leave his wife, and HIM mostly for being a prick and cheating. Link to post Share on other sites
flutterbykiss Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 (edited) I've noticed that whether the OW gets the MM to leave the M or not, many OW continue to have negative feelings towards her. The typical is that the W has "no self-respect" or "only likes his paycheck". Then there are those that write that they'd never be with a man that can cheat for FIVE/SIX/SEVEN years, but they were with the guy during that time span doing the cheating. My question is: why? What does his W have to do with the failed attempt to get him to leave? Or, what does his W have to do with the bad feelings you have about the way he treated you in the end? Why blame the W for staying married, just like she did during your five/six/seven year affair? Why does it reflect only on her self-respect and not on yours? The simplest answer is 'sour grapes', although I don't think that applies in all situation or that it's as straight forward as hating the BW for 'winning'. Perhaps there is a need to have a focus for all the negative feelings associated with the end of an A; to have someone to blame. Why a fOW chooses to make that focus the BW.....? Well, I can only speak my truth, from my experience. I no longer have any negative feelings towards xMM's BW, although there was a time - the two weeks between d-day and sending MM back to her - when I did not feel kindly (I won't say hate) towards her at all. It's pretty human to resent someone who is deliberately pulling your world apart - that is after all the reason that BW hated me so much - and she was doing her best to bring my world crashing down around my ears. I think what I resented most was that BW was tearing apart the delusion I had allowed myself to become wrapped up in. I thought I knew my MM. I thought that because he and I had a secret behind her back that I somehow knew him better than she did - that what he and I had was 'special'. He had painted out the I knew the 'real' him and she didn't. Suddenly I had to face the fact that she knew his life, his family, his friends, his history his childhood, his habits, his daily routine, his everything - that they were a real and important part of each others lives. I wanted to believe that she was wrong - that she was just a lying b***h, saying these things to tear MM and I apart. Otherwise I would have to accept that she was a hurt decent woman telling the truth and I didn't want to believe that it was the truth. It was easy to think she was wrong or vindictive because facing the depth of their relationship diminished what I had thought I had with him. The worst part was realizing that what they had was so real that she was prepared to take him back, even knowing everything that he had done; realizing that she is the best judge of her relationship with him and that she thought there was enough there to be worth saving. I had allowed myself to believe his lies that they had nothing compared to what we had and her wanting him back proved me wrong. In the end though, I'm grateful (of all things) to BW, for bringing me the truth. What if I had invested my future in this man and this sham of a relationship I had with him? I started blaming MM for misleading me (and myself for being misled) and I stopped blaming BW for showing me she had a relationship with him that I didn't want to believe she had. Their reconciliation put me in my place and, while that was hurtful at the time, it enabled me to bulid my life on a foundation of truth. Sorry for such a long post. Edited December 10, 2011 by flutterbykiss typos Link to post Share on other sites
Elizabeth Southerns Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I've noticed that whether the OW gets the MM to leave the M or not' date=' many OW continue to have negative feelings towards her. The typical is that the W has "no self-respect" or "only likes his paycheck".[/quote'] I continue to have negative feelings toward her because she continues to behave in ways that elicit those. Same way I feel negatively towards others whose behaviour evokes negative feelings. She doesn't get a free ride just because she was once a BW. Same way she doesn't warrant eternal damnation just because she was once a WS. I respond to people based on their ongoing behaviour, not on a label. Link to post Share on other sites
goldengirl86 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I think a number of reasons. 1. whether we want to or not jeolousy, because he chose her and not us. However, i personally felt bad for her and guilty that i hurt her, her actions afterwards in regards to how she acted and her conduct is why i have a problems with her and him too. I dont undertand how a woman can stay with someone who threatens her life. However, it is not her staying because of that that i have a problem with it is that she let him risks hers and her childrens lives. I personally look at it like i can understand why a woman would want to fight for her marraige, but thats it for alot of them there fighting for there marriage and dont want it to be a failure, when in actual act your fighting for a person and not an institution, and once you take a good look alot of women and men find that once the dusk settles and the war is over your left with the devastation and the reality that your husband in a POS. Who especially if he cheated just for sex, or because my wife was not paying enough attention to me or my emotional needs where not being meet. Boo who, cry be a river you scum bag. You used someone to get the attention all on you, you broke someone heart and lied and decieved someone, she or he was your scarificial lamb, so yeah no problem with the wife, the husband is an ass****, who will one day get what he deserves as we reap what we sow. If she has no problem being married to a scumbag and he makes her happy then goodluck, even scumbags need someone to love them. Link to post Share on other sites
Spark1111 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I think a number of reasons. 1. whether we want to or not jeolousy, because he chose her and not us. However, i personally felt bad for her and guilty that i hurt her, her actions afterwards in regards to how she acted and her conduct is why i have a problems with her and him too. I dont undertand how a woman can stay with someone who threatens her life. However, it is not her staying because of that that i have a problem with it is that she let him risks hers and her childrens lives. I personally look at it like i can understand why a woman would want to fight for her marraige, but thats it for alot of them there fighting for there marriage and dont want it to be a failure, when in actual act your fighting for a person and not an institution, and once you take a good look alot of women and men find that once the dusk settles and the war is over your left with the devastation and the reality that your husband in a POS. Who especially if he cheated just for sex, or because my wife was not paying enough attention to me or my emotional needs where not being meet. Boo who, cry be a river you scum bag. You used someone to get the attention all on you, you broke someone heart and lied and decieved someone, she or he was your scarificial lamb, so yeah no problem with the wife, the husband is an ass****, who will one day get what he deserves as we reap what we sow. If she has no problem being married to a scumbag and he makes her happy then goodluck, even scumbags need someone to love them. Goldengirl86, I know you are in a lot of pain, but that is the same scumbag you too were in love with; the same scumbag you secretly hoped would choose you over her. This is what I have always felt: We both fell in love with the same man, whether he be a lying scumbag or not. OW and BS have more in common that we think. Link to post Share on other sites
beenburned Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Flutterbykiss, That was a very insightful post! I'm sure your gratitude towards the BW, for opening your eyes to the truth, is most likely shared by her also. Until D-Day, the BW isn't aware of just what her H is capable of.(lies and deceit) So without the truth she is making life altering decisions based on a foundation of lies. I'm somewhat confused over your anger that she destroyed your world. She had a marriage, kids, home,cars, 401k, etc that was HER WORLD. You and her husband equally tried to destroy her world , and you feel upset at her? Link to post Share on other sites
beenburned Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 LadyGrey mentioned hypocrisy, and Hockeyfan mentioned double standards, both are abundant in EMAs. When a MM has an OW and then gets Ow#2 , why is it NOT O.K. for him to do to OW what he has been doing to his wife all along?(cheating & lying) Link to post Share on other sites
Spark1111 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I agree that the MM should be the object of one's anger, whether you are an OW or a BS. But that is not often the case in a triangle relationship: Whenever three people are in a relationship, there is always an imbalance of power by design. It is also normal to misdirect your anger AWAY from the person you love and towards the one (BS or OW) you perceive to have manipulated your partner away from you. In my sitch, I only had empathy, initially, for the OW: A divorced mom of a single child, I easily understood how vulnerable she must have been to my mid-life crisising, depressed fWS. Two years later when she and I finally spoke, I was shocked at how angry and venomous she was to me. Just seething and somewhat contemptuous. In retrospect, she definitely had feelings for him. Two weeks before she and I spoke, she tried to see if he was interested in re-initiating. But her anger at me? Totally mis-directed. I didn't guilt him or manipulate him into coming home. Hell, I told him to go get her if that would make him happy. Doubt he told her that. So, why hate me? Link to post Share on other sites
beenburned Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I think mainly it is because you have something she wants. Not just the MM but the whole package. Link to post Share on other sites
flutterbykiss Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I'm somewhat confused over your anger that she destroyed your world. She had a marriage, kids, home,cars, 401k, etc that was HER WORLD. You and her husband equally tried to destroy her world , and you feel upset at her? No wonder you're confused. I do not feel upset at BW and I'm sorry if I gave that impression. The humiliation and bad news she (quite rightly) served up to me was very unpleasant and, even though I knew I deserved it, I did wish she would stop. But, as you say, I was party to hurting her and damaging her world far worse than she hurt me so I could hardly hold it against her. Link to post Share on other sites
MissBee Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I think mainly it is because you have something she wants. Not just the MM but the whole package. I agree. I think this is human nature in general, even when it has nothing to do with relationships. Sometimes seeing people with things we want: the life we want, the job, the car, the man/woman, the credentials, the body, you name it. It can sometimes illicit feelings of envy, bitterness and on the extreme end a pathological hate. Most of us have felt this at some point or other (the more casual feelings of envy). I have. Then I felt shame for feeling that way. I also tend to feel less like that as I've come to see the world differently. An example, the only celebrity I have a crush on, I went to one of his concerts and his girlfriend was on the side of the stage and I was like "Ughhh....why is she there?" It's pretty ludicrous that I felt disdain for her, a woman I did not know...but it was simply a bit of envy. It was not her fault that I liked her man and he didn't know me and that I am not with him lol. This is not a very deep scenario, as I do not know him personally and am not attached to him for real. But this is an example of the feelings that can arise (even in a fantasy, far-fetched situation). So even more so I imagine someone who has been allowed to have a "taste" of this thing they've wanted will feel even more of that disdain, spawned from envy, for the person they believe is standing in their way (whether real or imagined). Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I don't know why women bash the W. I have a friend who is involved with a MM and she is constantly spying on them on FB or twitter and then making nasty comments about the W. I don't understand her. If you are involved in an inappropriate relationship just worry about your relationship and not be nosey about the spouse or what goes on in their home. Link to post Share on other sites
MissBee Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I don't know why women bash the W. I have a friend who is involved with a MM and she is constantly spying on them on FB or twitter and then making nasty comments about the W. I don't understand her. If you are involved in an inappropriate relationship just worry about your relationship and not be nosey about the spouse or what goes on in their home. This made me crack up But I agree! When I was in the A, I was not invested in her and spying on her and her life. The least I knew about her, the better. I admit that As in which one knows or is concerned about the BS to a noticeable extent are puzzling to me. Your friend reminds me of a friend of mine...she started her relationship with a guy who already had a gf and then eventually she "won" him. While that was going on she too would spy on the girlfriend and she spoke about her sooo much....I think I knew more about the gf than the guy. Link to post Share on other sites
frozensprouts Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 what i honestly don't get is the 180 that people in affairs do when the affair ends and the married person chooses to stay with their spouse....all of a sudden, the married man is a jerk and his wife is a fool for choosing to stay with him... a guy who cheats. i wonder if the married guy would still be a jerk if he chose to stay with his affair partner rather than his spouse...would that make the affair partner a fool for choosing to be with a guy who cheats? i figure that a lot of the nasty words are because of hurt more than anger. it hurts to be lied to...it hurts to invest your much time and emotion in a relationship and have it not work out, to feel that your love was rejected...that is true no matter whether you are the spouse or the affair partner if you are not he one the married guy chooses to be with Link to post Share on other sites
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