Is it all a game to God?

[TaraMaiden]

Oh, boy....

[Crusoe]

"God didn't provide like I was told he wold and I hate him."

 

 

Somedude, have you ever read Robinson Crusoe? I've got a feeling you haven't, not if you're saying that. Might do you good to pick up a copy.

[somedude81]

Oh, boy....

Sorry you're not enjoying yourself, I'll try harder.

Somedude, have you ever read Robinson Crusoe? I've got a feeling you haven't, not if you're saying that. Might do you good to pick up a copy.

 

LOL!

 

How long have you been waiting for a chance to make that post?

 

It's almost as if a guy named Hemingway, suggested I read the Old Man and the Sea.

[ffw]

Yeah, the fact that that's missing is the reason why I wouldn't care...

 

Er.....so, your opinion on God depends whether you get a girl or not?

[somedude81]

Er.....so, your opinion on God depends whether you get a girl or not?

I thought that was obvious from the very first post in this thread.

[Crusoe]

Sorry you're not enjoying yourself, I'll try harder.

 

LOL!

 

How long have you been waiting for a chance to make that post?

 

It's almost as if a guy named Hemingway, suggested I read the Old Man and the Sea.

 

The opportunity has been there for a long time.

 

I was thinking of recommending Santiago to you too.

 

So, have you read Crusoe?

[TaraMaiden]

Sorry you're not enjoying yourself, I'll try harder.

 

That wasn't my point....

 

I thought that was obvious from the very first post in this thread.

 

you make me laugh.

the whole point of following a religion is to dedicate yourself to its practice in order to improve the person you are, not to get a girl.

 

your worth and self-esteem, and station in life are not dependent on you having a girl on your arm.

The point of practising a religion is to fulfil yourself and make the best of the person you can be.

it's not there to provide materialistic, selfish and fatuous requirements, like a better car, bigger house, greater salary - or girlfriend.

YOU do that.

[Krios]

In regards to your question why the Christian god is being cruel and toying with you for his amusement. This might be of interest to you.

 

I'm not religious, but some time ago two very old sweet ladies rang my doorbell, they must have been in their 90's. They turned out to be Jehovah's witnesses and they seemed so sweet, adorable, kind and soft-spoken, that I kept listening to what they had to say for a good 30 minutes.

 

And they explained that according to their faith, god did create the world and did make a perfect paradise out of it, however, that he has retreated from ruling it.

 

Why? Because one day a fallen angel, Lucifer, called god out and said that he thought the people should have the freedom to reign over themselves, rather than have a "dictator" rule them who decided over their lives and destinies.

 

According to the Jehovah's witnesses, Lucifer challenged god in front of a million angels in an attempt to try to sway them against god. So to prove Lucifer wrong, god stepped back from the throne and let mankind rule itself. War, disease, poverty, environmental destruction were the result. Mankind and the universe were left to their own devices.

 

According to the Jehovah's witnesses, the reason god didn't stop it and intervened after a while was because he didn't want Lucifer to have any arguments against him, so he decided to let "the experiment" run its course, so that everyone could see the results for themselves.

 

I don't know if this explanation is similar to what you've been told in church, but then that possibly answers your question why life seems so cruel to you from a religious viewpoint. So from that perspective, your life feels cruel, because it is now based on cause and effect. You now have free will and the universe/reality does no longer have a ruler that maintains order to protect you, but is rather left to the chaos of cause and effect.

 

Personally, I had never heard that perspective before, but I thought it was interesting nevertheless.

[Teknoe]

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." -Jeremiah 29:11

 

Scripture also tells us God is Love. Look at John 3:16

 

I have prayed for SD81 in the past. In fact, I even had some folks at my church pray for him. He and I have a little history here on LoveShack. In him I see a lot of the old me. Like so many of us, he's a hurting guy... looking for love... but in all the wrong places. Come back to God. GOD IS LOVE.

 

You might not believe in Him anymore...

 

BUT HE STILL BELIEVES IN YOU.

 

I know it's all God's timing. One day you'll experience His love in full. I don't know when. But in my prayers for you I received an assurance that one day you'll see clearly. God will give you sight, but first you must seek Him and desire to partner with Him. It takes surrendering. It takes humbling yourself. There's no room for ego and pride with God. In fact He humbles the proud quickly, and uplifts the humble.

 

Humble yourself before God. Get on your knees and cry out to Him. He's right there, SD81. But you got to show some faith.

 

It's not out of style to get down on your knees and pray to God.

 

In fact, in many cases, by getting down on our knees to cry out to God is how we learn to stand firmly on our own two feet.

[somedude81]

you make me laugh.

the whole point of following a religion is to dedicate yourself to its practice in order to improve the person you are, not to get a girl.

 

your worth and self-esteem, and station in life are not dependent on you having a girl on your arm.

The point of practising a religion is to fulfil yourself and make the best of the person you can be.

it's not there to provide materialistic, selfish and fatuous requirements, like a better car, bigger house, greater salary - or girlfriend.

YOU do that.

Really?

 

The whole point of following a religion is to improve myself and not actually get anything out of it?

 

Then what's the point?

 

Sure the Bible has guidelines to be a good man, not hurt thy neighbor and all that stuff. But once you've accepted it and try to live that way, why keep going to church?

 

I actually like Krios's example. Though I don't think God was as 'hands off' in the beginning as he is now.

[OpenBook]

Sure the Bible has guidelines to be a good man, not hurt thy neighbor and all that stuff. But once you've accepted it and try to live that way, why keep going to church?

 

Reinforcement, pal! (Speaking for myself here.)

 

It's just like anything else, you get good at it with regular & repetitive practice.

[somedude81]

Reinforcement, pal! (Speaking for myself here.)

 

It's just like anything else, you get good at it with regular & repetitive practice.

I hear you, I almost killed a man yesterday, but I stopped at the last minute and realized that God would be mad at me. Almost slipped up there, need to go back to church.

 

(Yes I'm being an ass)

[Teknoe]

Really?

 

The whole point of following a religion is to improve myself and not actually get anything out of it?

 

Then what's the point?

 

Sure the Bible has guidelines to be a good man, not hurt thy neighbor and all that stuff. But once you've accepted it and try to live that way, why keep going to church?

 

I actually like Krios's example. Though I don't think God was as 'hands off' in the beginning as he is now.

 

How can you associate "self improvement" with "getting nothing out of it" ? That is baffling. Christ came so we may have life to the full (John 10:10). Having a relationship with God, and the Holy Spirit in us, helps direct our character and choices... which on its own is extremely sinful and selfish.

 

And you keep going to church because we need other believers to encourage us and walk alongside us. Isolation is what Satan desires. A loner is someone who is proned to the devil's schemes and spiritual attacks. You keep going to church (and a small group) for continued growth, because just like education you should never stop learning.

[zengirl]

I am not Christian, so understand that I cannot approach this from a Christian perspective (though half my family is Catholic). However, I have certainly read The Bible and studied it as I've studied many religions.

 

And this stands out:

 

It's basically me ranting, "God didn't provide like I was told he wold and I hate him."

 

There's also the feeling that I wasted so much time in Chruch if God can't do something as simple as help me find my Eve.

 

Where, in the Bible, did you learn that the Christian God is supposed to help you find a lifemate? Who told you he'd provide you with a girlfriend or wife at all? Let alone by the time you were X age? Let alone one who looks the way you want her to look? Etc.

 

Because I was raised in a Catholic family, and I cannot imagine that being 'taught' to anyone. Nor do I think that is different in Protestant or other Christian faiths. The idea of Christianity is not to believe in God for this life at all (faith alone in many versions of Christianity will get you far, though Catholicism also requests good works, if you want to get to Heaven and be blessed), but for the eternal life to come.

 

There is no transactional belief in Christianity that good deeds equals an easy life on Earth; in fact, in MANY versions of Christianity, life on Earth is glorified for it's roughness (not it's ease!) and you are to deny yourself the pleasures of an Earthly life for payoff in the hereafter. It's a test, a plan, whatever. Christianity is not exactly a hedonistic religion that promotes life's pleasures (I am not saying Christians are all miserable or anything by any means, but I am saying I'd be very surprised if a Christian church was preaching that God would supply young men with attractive girlfriends in return for their faith because it runs counter to basic tenets of Christianity).

 

Granted, I don't believe in a personified God, so it's hard to say what I'd think a personified God thought of us (I think God is more like a force of nature/unfragmented consciousness, rather than a Judge-in-the-Sky type thing), but I cannot find any religious backing for the idea that God gives two figs about anyone's dating lives or makes it His/Her/Its personal responsibility to give believers life's pleasures. Even if you follow the Bible stories and take them literally (which not everyone who reads/believes in The Bible does, but many do), when God intervenes, it's not because of an individual's personal happiness but of the collective good/plan/punishment/whatever of his people. God is not exactly interested in the individual, and even the individuals he worked with, he did so for a collective goal.

 

I just don't see any text to support your thesis.

[zengirl]

Really?

 

The whole point of following a religion is to improve myself and not actually get anything out of it?

 

Then what's the point?

 

Sure the Bible has guidelines to be a good man, not hurt thy neighbor and all that stuff. But once you've accepted it and try to live that way, why keep going to church?

 

I think because many religions are meant to be communal experiences. Religions are not just about the growth and development of the individual (spirituality may be), but about the growth and development of the community. That's why they're also so controversial.

[somedude81]

Where, in the Bible, did you learn that the Christian God is supposed to help you find a lifemate? Who told you he'd provide you with a girlfriend or wife at all?

 

The LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”

 

Genesis 2, 18.

[zengirl]

The LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”

 

Genesis 2, 18.

 

Right, for mankind, he made womankind, but "the man" there is Adam (mankind). Nowhere does it suggest God plays matchmaker. I think you'll be hard-pressed to find any religious scholar or clergyman who translates that portion of Genesis to, "If you pray for a girlfriend, God will bring you one." I'm not sure how you feel that was "promised" for you. Perhaps that's another reason to go to church --- to seek the meaning of the religious texts. I'm not saying there is one meaning to ANY religious texts, but if you stretched Genesis THAT far, some formal education in the text might be useful.

Edited March 8, 2012 by zengirl

[BetheButterfly]

I am not Christian, so understand that I cannot approach this from a Christian perspective (though half my family is Catholic). However, I have certainly read The Bible and studied it as I've studied many religions.

 

And this stands out:

 

 

 

Where, in the Bible, did you learn that the Christian God is supposed to help you find a lifemate? Who told you he'd provide you with a girlfriend or wife at all? Let alone by the time you were X age? Let alone one who looks the way you want her to look? Etc.

 

Hello Zengirl,

 

I am a Christian, and I know God has brought my husband and me together. It took awhile... we both were praying for each other way before we knew each other, but now that we have been married for 6 months!!! We are so grateful to God for answering our prayers!

 

In the Bible, Jesus said to ask, and it will be given. However, that does not mean that the answer will always be immediate, like fast food! Sometimes we have to wait and sometimes God even says no or not now.

 

Below is where Jesus said to ask (and this is in general) - not specifically for a girlfriend/wife but for whatever one needs! (and many men need good wives!!!)

 

Matthew 7 (NIV) - I boldened some of the words of Jesus:

 

" 7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. 9 “Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

 

 

Because I was raised in a Catholic family, and I cannot imagine that being 'taught' to anyone. Nor do I think that is different in Protestant or other Christian faiths. The idea of Christianity is not to believe in God for this life at all (faith alone in many versions of Christianity will get you far, though Catholicism also requests good works, if you want to get to Heaven and be blessed), but for the eternal life to come.

 

The goal of Christian beliefs is to live in obedience to God in this life on earth, and then experience eternal life. The idea that Christians is not to believe in God for this life at all? I don't understand what you mean by that. Could you please clarify that?

There is no transactional belief in Christianity that good deeds equals an easy life on Earth;

 

The above is very true. Jesus prophesied that his followers would suffer, and many have and do still today.

 

in fact, in MANY versions of Christianity, life on Earth is glorified for it's roughness (not it's ease!) and you are to deny yourself the pleasures of an Earthly life for payoff in the hereafter. It's a test, a plan, whatever.

 

Aye.

 

Christianity is not exactly a hedonistic religion that promotes life's pleasures (I am not saying Christians are all miserable or anything by any means, but I am saying I'd be very surprised if a Christian church was preaching that God would supply young men with attractive girlfriends in return for their faith because it runs counter to basic tenets of Christianity).

 

Christianity is not a hedonistic belief no, but it is also not an "I have to live an ugly, miserable life" belief either. Christian beliefs are based on love. There are many attractive Christian men and women, but they know that what is important is not what's on the outside, but the inner beauty of the heart, and they understand the importance of caring for those in need and helping people. That is why many Christians are involved in medical work with hospitals, the Salvation Army, the Red Cross, and many other charitable organizations.

 

For any guy who is going to church to simply get a pretty girlfriend, that guy needs to understand that God wants all of you... your heart, your time, your money, your life. Whether He gives you a pretty wife or not will be according to His will. However, Jesus does make clear that God knows how to give good gifts to His Children. He does however expect obedience.

 

Matthew 7 (NIV) - I boldened some of the words of Jesus:

 

" 7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. 9 “Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

 

 

Granted, I don't believe in a personified God, so it's hard to say what I'd think a personified God thought of us (I think God is more like a force of nature/unfragmented consciousness, rather than a Judge-in-the-Sky type thing), but I cannot find any religious backing for the idea that God gives two figs about anyone's dating lives or makes it His/Her/Its personal responsibility to give believers life's pleasures. Even if you follow the Bible stories and take them literally (which not everyone who reads/believes in The Bible does, but many do), when God intervenes, it's not because of an individual's personal happiness but of the collective good/plan/punishment/whatever of his people. God is not exactly interested in the individual, and even the individuals he worked with, he did so for a collective goal.

 

I just don't see any text to support your thesis.

 

I believe God is very personable, and knows each person, and gave each person different talents and gifts. So, as a Christian, I do believe that God is interested in each and every part of a person's life, if they are interested in Him. God does want people to seek Him, which is interesting.

[Feelin Frisky]

Psssst, god is a crock. Pass it down.

[BetheButterfly]

Psssst, god is a crock. Pass it down.

 

It is of course your decision to be as rude and intolerant and insulting as you like. However, I am grateful to God for your right to not believe in Him, and I am grateful to God for my right to believe in Him, regardless of what rude, intolerant, insulting people say.

[TaraMaiden]

Psssst, god is a crock. Pass it down.

 

if he existed, I'd agree with you.

so I'll just say that our impression of what we think god is like - is a crock.

some people like crocks, though....

[TaraMaiden]

It is of course your decision to be as rude and intolerant and insulting as you like. However, I am grateful to God for your right to not believe in Him, and I am grateful to God for my right to believe in Him, regardless of what rude, intolerant, insulting people say.

 

He wasn't being rude, intolerant or insulting.

He was just giving his opinion on something he considers to be a figment of someone's imagination.

now if he had said - "god is a crock and anyone who believes in him is a brainless idiot, with no adequate amount of intelligence to be able to see a fairy tale even if it should slap them round the face with a month-old kipper, they're so blind, dense and moronic" - THEN he'd be rude, intolerant or insulting.

but if you consider someone saying - in a roundabout way - that they don't believe in god, to be rude intolerant and insulting - then that makes you just as rude, intolerant and insulting for purporting to respect their right to give an opinion, when you clearly don't.

 

 

hugs.

[BetheButterfly]

if he existed, I'd agree with you.

so I'll just say that our impression of what we think god is like - is a crock.

some people like crocks, though....

 

And some people understand that people are different and don't go around insulting what other people believe. People who have manners and are tolerant of others do not resort to low insults in order to express their beliefs. Rather, one can simply proclaim one's lack of belief in a Supreme Being without being rude and insulting about it. Thankfully, not all Atheists are rude intolerant people who insult what other people believe. There are Atheists who are tolerant, kind, and above insulting others, same as there are people who do not insult people who are of a different gender or sexual orientation than they are.

[BetheButterfly]

He wasn't being rude, intolerant or insulting.

 

I disagree with you.

 

Think what would happen if the President of the USA, for example, wrote or said such a thing. It would be taken as an insult, and you know it.

 

He was just giving his opinion on something he considers to be a figment of someone's imagination.

 

I do not believe in fairy godmothers, but I would never insult a being I considered fiction. Why waste the time?

 

now if he had said - "god is a crock and anyone who believes in him is a brainless idiot, with no adequate amount of intelligence to be able to see a fairy tale even if it should slap them round the face with a month-old kipper, they're so blind, dense and moronic" - THEN he'd be rude, intolerant or insulting.

 

So if a person just says that someone is a crock, that is not an insult? If someone said that someone you loved was a crock, would you not consider that an insult to that person?

 

but if you consider someone saying - in a roundabout way - that they don't believe in god, to be rude intolerant and insulting - then that makes you just as rude, intolerant and insulting for purporting to respect their right to give an opinion, when you clearly don't.

 

It is a person's right to not believe in God. However, the Atheists who I have the privilege of knowing personally do not insult people who do believe in God. They are educated people who understand the right of freedom of religion and know that insulting a Supreme Being is not conducive to having kind, good, and productive interactions with people who believe in that said being. Do you understand this concept? I do not believe that Atheists are rude, intolerant, or insulting for being Athiests. What makes any person, regardless of beliefs rude, intolerant, and insulting is by insulting someone or something.

 

hugs.

 

Hugs to you as well

[zengirl]

I am a Christian, and I know God has brought my husband and me together. It took awhile... we both were praying for each other way before we knew each other, but now that we have been married for 6 months!!! We are so grateful to God for answering our prayers!

 

In the Bible, Jesus said to ask, and it will be given. However, that does not mean that the answer will always be immediate, like fast food! Sometimes we have to wait and sometimes God even says no or not now.

 

Right. I have heard that interpretation of Jesus's words, and I get that. "Ask and you shall receive" --- though I don't think it was meant to be as transactional as SD's ideas are. I've certainly never heard a preacher or religions person suggest that if you do not receive what you asked for that it was proof of God's nonexistence (and many, many people pray for things they don't get---that's just a fact).

 

The goal of Christian beliefs is to live in obedience to God in this life on earth, and then experience eternal life. The idea that Christians is not to believe in God for this life at all? I don't understand what you mean by that. Could you please clarify that?

 

No. . . I'm not sure which part you're referring to. If you mean the faith alone, I meant that in certain Christian faiths are interested in faith alone and others (primarily Catholicism say, "Sure, you need faith, but without good works, you're still going to Hell" and so forth). Or do you mean when I said it's not for this life? I meant that the goal of Christianity is basically what you said---basically that obedience is more valued than pleasure-in-the-moment and so forth.

 

Christianity is not a hedonistic belief no, but it is also not an "I have to live an ugly, miserable life" belief either. Christian beliefs are based on love. There are many attractive Christian men and women, but they know that what is important is not what's on the outside, but the inner beauty of the heart, and they understand the importance of caring for those in need and helping people. That is why many Christians are involved in medical work with hospitals, the Salvation Army, the Red Cross, and many other charitable organizations.

 

I did not mean to suggest Christian life was miserable. In fact, I thought I clarified it was not. I'm not Christian, but I do not think practicing Christianity makes one unhappy. We don't share the same beliefs, but my understanding of Christianity does not differ from what you've said.