BetheButterfly Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Right. I have heard that interpretation of Jesus's words, and I get that. "Ask and you shall receive" --- though I don't think it was meant to be as transactional as SD's ideas are. I've certainly never heard a preacher or religions person suggest that if you do not receive what you asked for that it was proof of God's nonexistence (and many, many people pray for things they don't get---that's just a fact). Oh ok. No I have never heard that not receiving what one asks God for is proof of God's existence or not either. Christians believe that God has the perfect right to say no to any petition, and that God is not subservient to a human's will. No. . . I'm not sure which part you're referring to. If you mean the faith alone, I meant that in certain Christian faiths are interested in faith alone and others (primarily Catholicism say, "Sure, you need faith, but without good works, you're still going to Hell" and so forth). Or do you mean when I said it's not for this life? I meant that the goal of Christianity is basically what you said---basically that obedience is more valued than pleasure-in-the-moment and so forth. OK, I understand now. Yeah the goal of Christian beliefs is to live in obedience to God and to someday be taken to Heaven. It's almost like an extraterrestial idea in some ways, seeing that God is not an earthly Being (though He made the earth and all the universe), and has a Home (Heaven) for those who He deems worthy to take there after their life here on earth ends. I did not mean to suggest Christian life was miserable. In fact, I thought I clarified it was not. I'm not Christian, but I do not think practicing Christianity makes one unhappy. We don't share the same beliefs, but my understanding of Christianity does not differ from what you've said. I understand you better now. Thanks so much for clarifying. There are some areas in Christian life that are difficult and are not fun - like saying no to sexual encounters that God says not to do. Also, Jesus placed extreme importance on not being greedy for money and on helping the poor. This goes against natural selfish desires, but Christians who do make it a priority to obey God sexually and financially do live happy, contented lives if they do so out of a willing, cheerful heart - focusing on why instead of all they are "missing." 1 Link to post Share on other sites
FredRutherford Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Originally Posted by zengirl Right. I have heard that interpretation of Jesus's words, and I get that. "Ask and you shall receive" --- though I don't think it was meant to be as transactional as SD's ideas are. I've certainly never heard a preacher or religions person suggest that if you do not receive what you asked for that it was proof of God's nonexistence (and many, many people pray for things they don't get---that's just a fact). Oh ok. No I have never heard that not receiving what one asks God for is proof of God's existence or not either. Christians believe that God has the perfect right to say no to any petition, and that God is not subservient to a human's will. This is true. Nowhere is it written things will be easy or that his time will be on our schedule. A lonely, single Christian who had sex in HS (wayyyyy too early) but became of faith first year in college and earnestly tried to live a sexually responsible life. That wasn't easy and prayers for a godly GF weren't answered. From 19-26, got no hand-holding, no hugging, no kissing -- rarely any second or third dates from --- so was easy to "fall" to a couple of opportunities @25 before I met my first love, my first real adult relationship (platonic, she was a 30 y.o. virgin) which of course ended against my wishes. Prayed for a spouse, though likely should have prayed more. Wanted a GF, great sex & a wife. That all came in time, but a lot later than I wanted (got the first 2 after turning 30). Thought God had "forgotten" about me as though I dated and had relationships, wasn't really good at it and just stayed with the women to not be lonely. It was clear they weren't deeply invested in me (that really hurts) --- until I turned 30 when I met my future wife. Funny. God hadn't "forgotten" about me. Met my future wife -- who was a couple of years older than me and never-married -- 3-4 mos. after I hit the big 3-0.... So SD, don't give up. I know where you're comin' from. Have been there. For those of you lucky enough to find your love young, always having dates for occasions, you think that was easy? Going to bed most nights knowing no girl loved you, dreaming of sex, having to go to be alone, wake up alone, never enjoying all the things other happy couples enjoy? SD--- You keep trying and keep to asking women out. That's what I did. Keep at it. Like Teknoe recommended, return to your faith. God knows what's best for us, though we can't always see it. Our view at ground level isn't as great as thousands of feet up in an airplane. Who knows. She may be waiting for you just around the corner.... There are some areas in Christian life that are difficult and are not fun - like saying no to sexual encounters that God says not to do. Also, Jesus placed extreme importance on not being greedy for money and on helping the poor. This goes against natural selfish desires, but Christians who do make it a priority to obey God sexually and financially do live happy, contented lives if they do so out of a willing, cheerful heart - focusing on why instead of all they are "missing." Very true, butterfly. Really wished I'd waited more patiently..... Have to feel God knows what this is like for us older singles.... Edited March 9, 2012 by FredRutherford 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Very true, butterfly. Really wished I'd waited more patiently..... Have to feel God knows what this is like for us older singles.... God understands. He made us after all, and He knows we're not perfect. King David writes that in his prayers/songs = Psalms to God. Psalm 25 (NIV) - I boldened some. " Of David. 1 In you, LORD my God, I put my trust. 2 I trust in you; do not let me be put to shame, nor let my enemies triumph over me. 3 No one who hopes in you will ever be put to shame, but shame will come on those who are treacherous without cause. 4 Show me your ways, LORD, teach me your paths. 5 Guide me in your truth and teach me, for you are God my Savior, and my hope is in you all day long. 6 Remember, LORD, your great mercy and love, for they are from of old. 7 Do not remember the sins of my youth and my rebellious ways; according to your love remember me, for you, LORD, are good. 8 Good and upright is the LORD; therefore he instructs sinners in his ways. 9 He guides the humble in what is right and teaches them his way. 10 All the ways of the LORD are loving and faithful toward those who keep the demands of his covenant. 11 For the sake of your name, LORD, forgive my iniquity, though it is great. 12 Who, then, are those who fear the LORD? He will instruct them in the ways they should choose.[b] 13 They will spend their days in prosperity, and their descendants will inherit the land. 14 The LORD confides in those who fear him; he makes his covenant known to them. 15 My eyes are ever on the LORD, for only he will release my feet from the snare. 16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. 17 Relieve the troubles of my heart and free me from my anguish. 18 Look on my affliction and my distress and take away all my sins. " God is not a mean dictator. God made rules to protect His Creation, and God forgives if a person wants to be forgiven and wants to follow Him. God wants the best for people!!! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I disagree with you. Think what would happen if the President of the USA, for example, wrote or said such a thing. It would be taken as an insult, and you know it. One, I'm not American, so frankly, I'm not in the slightest bit bothered. Two - if that were his opinion, i believe he'd be entitled to give it. Three - i believe George Bush put his foot in his mouth so many times, it became a matter of ridicule. He offended a lot of people, but really, you need to see the funny side.. I do not believe in fairy godmothers, but I would never insult a being I considered fiction. Why waste the time? some folks got time to waste... and may not consider it a waste of time. I think playing on WoW is a huge waste of time, but there you go..... So if a person just says that someone is a crock, that is not an insult? If someone said that someone you loved was a crock, would you not consider that an insult to that person? Yeah, but that person could surely stand up and defend themselves - they wouldn't need me to do it for them.... I'd be more interested in finding out why... and nobody can be liked by everyone...Heck, some people don't even like me... can you believe that - ?! It is a person's right to not believe in God. However, the Atheists who I have the privilege of knowing personally do not insult people who do believe in God. They are educated people who understand the right of freedom of religion and know that insulting a Supreme Being is not conducive to having kind, good, and productive interactions with people who believe in that said being. Do you understand this concept? I do not believe that Atheists are rude, intolerant, or insulting for being Athiests. What makes any person, regardless of beliefs rude, intolerant, and insulting is by insulting someone or something. It takes all sorts to make a world... people are people wherever you go.... If I became offended each time someone was rude intolerant or insulting - now THAT would be a waste of my time! Hugs to you as well now hugs - are nice..... Link to post Share on other sites
Feelin Frisky Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 It is of course your decision to be as rude and intolerant and insulting as you like. However, I am grateful to God for your right to not believe in Him, and I am grateful to God for my right to believe in Him, regardless of what rude, intolerant, insulting people say. Your "belief" has made you rude and intolerant. Consider. My remark and my belief was not directed at YOU but you personalized it. This is what your "beliefs" brings--dismissal of real people to preserve figments of faith-lore. The world in deep crap from attitudes just like yours. Happy now? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Your "belief" has made you rude and intolerant. Consider. My remark and my belief was not directed at YOU but you personalized it. This is what your "beliefs" brings--dismissal of real people to preserve figments of faith-lore. The world in deep crap from attitudes just like yours. Happy now? Your remark was directed at Someone I love dearly. If you truly have interactions with Christians, you would understand that many Christians have an intense love or passion for God. If, for example, you loved your Dad very much, and you saw someone writing that your beloved Dad was a "crock", would you not consider that an insult against someone you loved very much? It is perfectly fine for Atheists to believe that God does not exist. However, using insulting adjectives is a part of being insulting. Please feel free to show me anywhere I have used insulting adjectives against you or anybody for not believing or for doing anything. Concerning interacting with people who believe differently or are different than you, using insulting adjectives in order to describe someone or something that person loves is not being tolerant, kind, or respectful. You, as an adult, know that, and you as an adult should realize that what you wrote is just as detrimental as a bully saying "Psst. So and so is an (insert insulting word here) Pass it on" I do not believe that Christians have to be doormats where they say nothing when people are rude and intolerant and disrespectful against what they believe, anymore than I believe people should be silent when bullies insult others or what others believe in the classroom or outside of the classroom. Anyways, Jesus commanded his followers to forgive and also taught them to love those who hurt them and to bless those who curse them, as well as do good to them and pray for them. So, I forgive you and you are in my prayers. May God bless you 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 One, I'm not American, so frankly, I'm not in the slightest bit bothered. Where are you from? Just curious Two - if that were his opinion, i believe he'd be entitled to give it. In the USA, at least in the county where I'm from, there is an importance placed on courtesy and tolerance, as well as respect even if one doesn't believe the same as another group. Sadly, that is lacking more and more these days, but it is important for any person to interact respectfully with people of different beliefs/ethnicities/and whatever differences there may be. Three - i believe George Bush put his foot in his mouth so many times, it became a matter of ridicule. He offended a lot of people, but really, you need to see the funny side.. Great politicians know how to interact with people without throwing insults. Actually, great businesspeople also know how to interact respectfully. For example, Atheist and Christian businesspeople can interact respectfully and keep any snide comments to themselves. It mutually benefits their businesses and produces a healthy atmosphere. some folks got time to waste... and may not consider it a waste of time. I think playing on WoW is a huge waste of time, but there you go..... Yeah, but that person could surely stand up and defend themselves - they wouldn't need me to do it for them.... I don't know if you have ever watched this program about what would you do... I forgot what station it's on, but it's basically seeing whether people would stand up for others in different situations. Sad to say, many people don't. I'd be more interested in finding out why... and nobody can be liked by everyone...Heck, some people don't even like me... can you believe that - ?! Some people don't like me either. It doesn't matter to me. It takes all sorts to make a world... people are people wherever you go.... If I became offended each time someone was rude intolerant or insulting - now THAT would be a waste of my time! Do you believe that people should not stand up for courtesy and respect, even to others who are different than them? now hugs - are nice..... Agreed Here's another hug and an adorable happy hoppy bunny too! :bunny:Hope you have a lovely weekend! Peace 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Psssst, god is a crock. Pass it down. Hello again Feelin Frisky, What would you do if in a classroom sitting, a bully wrote or said the following: "Psssst, (insert someone that someone in the classroom loves) is a (insert insulting adjective/noun). Pass it down." What would you do if you loved that someone that was being insulted? What would you do even if you didn't love that someone or know that someone or even if you didn't know that someone existed, but that you believed in courtesy, tolerance, and respect for differences in beliefs/ethnicity/gender/sexual orientations/other differences people have? Edited March 9, 2012 by BetheButterfly Link to post Share on other sites
FredRutherford Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Originally Posted by Feelin Frisky Psssst, god is a crock. Pass it down. Imagine how someone 'round here might take exception to someone posting something like this: Psssst, atheists are simpletons. Pass it down. OR... Psssst, THIS GROUP OF PEOPLE (accountants/ football team fans; DemoRats, Republicrats, etc.,) are stupid. Pass it down. Frisky, As much as I value you as a poster and care for your posts (you're respectable in your interactions), that posting was somewhat offensive. I can see how a good Christian woman like BeTheButterfly might get upset. I didn't get upset and take it personally (not sayin' BeTheButterfly took it too personally) bec. I don't let others get to me, am strong in my own views, religious or otherwise and don't depend on others' validation. Now, let's get back to our regularly scheduled programming on how we can get SomeDude a woman... Edited March 9, 2012 by FredRutherford Link to post Share on other sites
Eve Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 What was this thread about again? Always ends up the same with the same types taking things off topic .. *YAWN.. YAWN .. YAWN* Take care, Eve x Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 so....? if it makes you sleepy, maybe you should take a nap.... .and sit the next one out, for a while.....? Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts