Sometimes it's not just an affair.

[LadyGrey]

Ditto! All anyone has to do is look at the history and there you have it, chances for a healthy relationship look pretty bleak. She has illustrated herself and her mm to be manipulative, among other things.

 

If Jessica had said what she said and left out the negative nancy comment, people would have been a lot more likely to wish her well, but that comment alone shows her immaturity and a lack of empathy for other ow who are struggling.

 

She has said in previous posts she always get what she wants, so the question is, will she still want it in the future?

 

 

 

I've always thought Jessica got back what she's dished out. I don't come here often anymore but I used to, & Jessica likes to come on here all smug when things are going her way, sounding self-righteous & selfish, & then she comes crying when her MM treats her like crap, & then she manipulates him & gets him back & comes back all smug etc.

 

Really, how are people supposed to be happy for someone like that? I think the pattern is just continuing except that the wife got smart & moved on so she's out of the picture now (despite the MM trying to hold onto her). I think Jessica got what she sometimes wanted, sometimes didn't -- a man who cheats and who stays with the woman who sticks with him by default. My xMM was like that. His wife had been his OW before he married her. Then came me, and I'm sure a host of other OWs. With hindsight most people learn from their experiences but sometimes people never change; sometimes people are just selfish unhappy cheaters! (i don't man any ill will to my xMM or anyone but I have learned that's just the way it is!)

 

On the subject of some people never changing, if I'm not mistaken Jessica was in a committed relationship when she met her MM. My prediction: things will stay exactly the same. He'll cheat on her, she'll cheat on him, and they'll be lots of drama & manipulation between the two of them, where they'll stay stuck in misery, & Jessica will keep up her na-nee-na-nee-poo-poo tone at other people, because she is so unhappy. This is just my opinion but I don't think anyone who comes to Internet forums to brag about winning a cheater who treated her like dog doo (less than dog doo!) is truly happy, & I'm not quite sure why we're all supposed to post heartfelt hoorahs for her, which would be insincere & silly. If you are happy for her, cool. I hope things work out for her & that she finds a better sense of self & stops letting her life revolve around this confused, cheating, lying, manipulating guy... but right now they seem to be perfect for each other, so, good for them, & I agree, good for the wife for moving on as she can probably do better.

[bean1]

I don't know anything about her back story.

 

However, as a former OW (ie. 5 years long removed with no contact), it is painfully obvious to me (and any formers reading) that she is simply gloating over that she has 'won' the prize (ie. him moving in with her after his wife boots him out somehow equates to long-term commitment/love).

 

It's just more fog babble, that's all.

[donnamaybe]

She has said in previous posts she always get what she wants, so the question is, will she still want it in the future?

The thing is, I truly believe she THINKS she has "won" a man who will give her his undying love. She may find she got something she didn't quite bargain for, even with all the evidence he's already given her.

[Brokenlady]

Good luck Jessica! Sorry some of the posters her have elected to take out their insecurities on you. Don't let it get to you.

[Brokenlady]

That old saying has no basis in fact. It's almost never true. Many bad people do bad things and never suffer negative consequences as a result. Many good people struggle through life facing difficulties and problems they don't deserve. The concept of Karma attempts to make life seem "fair" - it rarely is.

 

Exactly. Such declarations could also be turned around to imply the bw did something that resulted in her h cheating on her- her karma. We don't really want to go there do we?

[donnamaybe]

Good luck Jessica! Sorry some of the posters her have elected to take out their insecurities on you. Don't let it get to you.

Now THAT is some funny stuff right there!

 

I'm sorry, but if I had been treated as poorly as the OP had and then elected to take the guy in after his W drop kicked him, I would THEN have good reason to be insecure!

[Brokenlady]

Now THAT is some funny stuff right there!

 

I'm sorry, but if I had been treated as poorly as the OP had and then elected to take the guy in after his W drop kicked him, I would THEN have good reason to be insecure!

 

I haven't read her backstory, but what's being expressed here is nastiness, wishes for heartbreak and failure- not genuine concern for the OP. Were any of this couched in an expression of concern, it'd be less transparently projection and less offensive.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Exactly. Such declarations could also be turned around to imply the bw did something that resulted in her h cheating on her- her karma. We don't really want to go there do we?

 

Why not go there?

 

I choose to believe that each one of us is responsible for our own actions and behavior. Nobody's bad behavior mitigates what I do or don't do.

 

Sure, there are some exceptions to this, for example, when a tremendously isolated and profoundly abused person ends up snapping, or when a brainwashed POW "turns" and does the wishes of his/ her captor.

 

But in the construct of a marriage, no matter how unhappy, nobody has ANY responsibility for the other one choosing to cheat, lie, abuse substances, chronically gamble, etc. That's on the person who does it. Only.

[bentnotbroken]

Exactly. Such declarations could also be turned around to imply the bw did something that resulted in her h cheating on her- her karma. We don't really want to go there do we?

 

 

If you feel the need...go ahead. It is your right.

[donnamaybe]

I haven't read her backstory, but what's being expressed here is nastiness, wishes for heartbreak and failure- not genuine concern for the OP. Were any of this couched in an expression of concern, it'd be less transparently projection and less offensive.

Perhaps you should read a couple posts up then about how she has behaved on this forum, and you might understand.

[Lostinlife4now]

That old saying has no basis in fact. It's almost never true. Many bad people do bad things and never suffer negative consequences as a result. Many good people struggle through life facing difficulties and problems they don't deserve. The concept of Karma attempts to make life seem "fair" - it rarely is.

 

 

Thank you for making me feel better SoMovinOn....I always thought my life always had the "Bad Karma" thing....but now I have discovered I am just stupid.....

[SincereOnlineGuy]

Sometimes an affair isn't just an affair. After a lot of time, a lot of love, and yes, a lot of heartache, my MM is divorced, and we are looking for a house together. Things are wonderful. If your gut tells you it's right....follow your heart!! (and don't listen to the negative Nancys here) Best wishes ladies!!

 

 

You need only remember one thing:

 

 

"A man who marries his mistress is only creating an opening for the position"

[thomasb]

agree

 

 

 

why are you saying others have insecurities? what makes you think that? you said you didn't read her back story; maybe you should so you will see what the other people who took the time to read her back story are saying. there was a lot of manipulation and games on Jessica's end; do you think that is something people should celebrate and encourage?

 

Ah but HF. There are some posters here who just look at the title of BS or OW and defend that to the death. They really don't seem to care about the specific posters story and details. They simply must slam according to "situation" and could care less whether the individual is being destructive to there own health and sanity. Sad, really. No joke.

[SoMovinOn]

I am not saying I believe in "Karma." I am not a member of any religion. I do believe that we reap what we sow. The reaping is not always obvious to other people around us, or even sometimes to ourselves.

 

The golden rule is good, too.

 

I'll agree with that. I've lived through reaping what I have sown and made changes in how I am, who I am, as a result sometimes.

 

Where I disagree with Karma is with those who seem to view it as though there is someone or something keeping track of everything everyone does, then somehow doling out appropriate responses. It kind of goes along with the afterlife/judgement/reward/punishment concepts. People always want to believe that somehow, somewhere down the line, everything balances out, everything becomes fair. It doesn't and it's not. Sometimes bad people suffer no consequences, sometimes good people get **** on all their life.

[SoMovinOn]

Why not go there?

 

I choose to believe that each one of us is responsible for our own actions and behavior. Nobody's bad behavior mitigates what I do or don't do.

 

Sure, there are some exceptions to this, for example, when a tremendously isolated and profoundly abused person ends up snapping, or when a brainwashed POW "turns" and does the wishes of his/ her captor.

 

But in the construct of a marriage, no matter how unhappy, nobody has ANY responsibility for the other one choosing to cheat, lie, abuse substances, chronically gamble, etc. That's on the person who does it. Only.

 

I think you're seeing that wrong. The question being, if Karma exists, what did the BS do to deserve being cheated on? That would seem to be their karmic response right?

[SoMovinOn]

Thank you for making me feel better SoMovinOn....I always thought my life always had the "Bad Karma" thing....but now I have discovered I am just stupid.....

 

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

[MissBee]

Sometimes an affair isn't just an affair. After a lot of time, a lot of love, and yes, a lot of heartache, my MM is divorced, and we are looking for a house together. Things are wonderful. If your gut tells you it's right....follow your heart!! (and don't listen to the negative Nancys here) Best wishes ladies!!

 

I don't get posts like these to be honest...

 

I guess I'm a Negative Nancy for saying this but:

 

The short of it is: most As are just As...if your A is special and meant to be....then only time will tell. But I see no point in encouraging others to believe there A may be their dream come true. I really don't get that. Who is a Negative Nancy? One who points out the obvious and potential pitfalls in a situation notoriously problematic? Who? And who is not a Negative Nancy? One who always sees the potential of an A being someone's dream come true? I don't know.

 

I think people confuse something being probable versus possible and likely the case. The point in my opinion is.....don't ask for other people's opinions. This is how I live my life in terms of lots of things....not related to love. If you're sure of your self and situation then keep it to yourself and live your life. When you start sharing your story, then you open yourself up to critique and people may or may not be right. That's the world. Even with careers, inventing things etc...sometimes it's best to keep your dreams to yourself for a while until you're certain OR be confident, share it and take critique and criticism from those who may know. They may not be right all the time...but if they were in your shoes once...they may have some idea. Take what works and what doesn't feel right discard.Even doctors aren't always right...but the point is they often are and if they've seen a certain disease 1000 times, chances are they can see the prognosis. It is of course possible to have a different outcome...I think doctors know this as well and most would not say their word is the last, but they would be irresponsible to ask patients to focus on the least likely scenarios. It's fine to give hope but to be over the top in overstating that possibility is foolish.

 

 

But don't share and be upset if others see something you don't like....at the end of the day none of us are God...so I can't say with 100% certainty what will happen for you...although it's possible to bet and make an intelligent guess based on precedence. Do what you do and be happy with what you do. That's what I do. If I am hellbent on doing something I KNOW most won't get or like....I do it without announcing it. If it fails...then so be it. If it works...great! But I'm not going to announce a well-known contentious thing like having an affair and then call people Negative Nancies...as if I didn't know that would be the reaction. Let's have realistic expectations of people.

Edited December 16, 2011 by MissBee

[MissBee]

jessica...i don't know what led you to the point you are at now, so maybe this comment does not apply...

 

have you and your new guy considered getting some relationship counseling together? I'm just asking because if having an affair is the method he has learned to use to deal with stress or "downtimes" in his romantic relationships, you might want to make sure he learns better ways of dealing with things so he won't do the same thing in his relationship with you.

 

Good advice!

 

If you now have a formerly cheating married man as your man now...I do think it would be wise to take that into consideration as you go forward, in terms of counseling etc...if you want things to work out. It only makes sense...

[MissBee]

Exactly. Such declarations could also be turned around to imply the bw did something that resulted in her h cheating on her- her karma. We don't really want to go there do we?

 

I find when people use karma in common parlance it is more simplistic than the real, intended meaning.

 

I do believe in karma...but it's not as simplistic as if I cheat on someone, I get cheated on too or other simplistic things like that. It has all to do with energy and reaping what you sow...and the big aspect of karma is that it goes along with the idea of reincarnation and other life times and spiritual baggage that you bring with you through lifetimes...so technically, one could appear to get away scotch free but since it is cyclical....in the next life....surprise...your consequences are meted out to you. Consequences also don't mean bad things...just logical outcomes sometimes.

 

Just wanted to throw that in to the convo as I always see people talk about such simplistic understandings of karma as revenge or pay back and you getting the exact thing that you did... when it simply is not how it should be understood and if looked at from that insufficient lens that doesn't explain what the full concept means...then of course it doesn't make sense or doesn't seem to compute. But we're not here to have theological debates.....

Edited December 16, 2011 by MissBee

[MissBee]

You need only remember one thing:

 

 

"A man who marries his mistress is only creating an opening for the position"

 

I do think we're getting ahead of ourselves...Jessica is not engaged to this man. He's just divorced now. But I suppose like with any relationship....it is still possible for him, or even her, to decide that it's not going to work out and no marrying goes on.

 

I think for me that's one of the big things....in any relationship the dating period should be the discovery phase where you decide should you invest or go your separate ways. Discovering if this person is suitable to make a life with, whether marriage or life partner OR just are they someone whom you need to invest in. I find it very hard to know this about someone married to another and we're secretly dating....and I think all that drama can be for naught sometimes, when you get them to yourself and can date for real and realize it's not going to work (but you've already spent so much time invested in this A and the us-against-the-world euphoria). OR the drama and secrecy and euphoria leads you to prematurely feel like they're the one for you...then when they leave and you have them...it's not all that it's cracked up to be. OR because the MP divorced "for you" you feel like you have to make it work or they feel like they have to make it work OR both of you don't want to hear "I told you so" so stick it out. That happens a lot! A few posters here in that position have come back to share the tale of the relationship not working out, as sometimes happens with all relationships...but being even more embarrassed to end it because they feel like people are going to judge them more harshly and say it serves them right so they stay together so that their BS's and so forth don't laugh at them.

 

An A can often promote more illusions and fantasy. People have illusions and fantasy with single people all the time too...but I think the very context of As promotes it more and you almost need to do a backtracking/starting over if it becomes an open R. A marriage with someone and having that end is also so much to recover from...and just like I wouldn't be rushing to date some single guy who said he just got out of a 5 year relationship last month...even more so, how much more does rebounding and the confusion that comes with ending a R are there when the person is still married or getting a D while you're trying to figure out if they're the one for you. I don't care if someone says I'm a Negative Nancy....I'm a darn smart one...as it only makes sense that it is going to be a lot more tumultuous to reasonably forge a secure relationship when you're not on equal footing...i.e. your partner is trying to untangle from someone else and you're single and ready and waiting...the things they're trying to figure out and work out ARE NOT THE SAME as what you have. Relationships are hard work and like it or not...some circumstances make it that much harder.

Edited December 16, 2011 by MissBee

[donnamaybe]

And when you have already been treated horribly by the WS, isn't that yet another reason for concern?

[findingnemo]

I do think we're getting ahead of ourselves...Jessica is not engaged to this man. He's just divorced now. But I suppose like with any relationship....it is still possible for him, or even her, to decide that it's not going to work out and no marrying goes on.

 

I think for me that's one of the big things....in any relationship the dating period should be the discovery phase where you decide should you invest or go your separate ways. Discovering if this person is suitable to make a life with, whether marriage or life partner OR just are they someone whom you need to invest in. I find it very hard to know this about someone married to another and we're secretly dating....and I think all that drama can be for naught sometimes, when you get them to yourself and can date for real and realize it's not going to work (but you've already spent so much time invested in this A and the us-against-the-world euphoria). OR the drama and secrecy and euphoria leads you to prematurely feel like they're the one for you...then when they leave and you have them...it's not all that it's cracked up to be. OR because the MP divorced "for you" you feel like you have to make it work or they feel like they have to make it work OR both of you don't want to hear "I told you so" so stick it out. That happens a lot! A few posters here in that position have come back to share the tale of the relationship not working out, as sometimes happens with all relationships...but being even more embarrassed to end it because they feel like people are going to judge them more harshly and say it serves them right so they stay together so that their BS's and so forth don't laugh at them.

 

An A can often promote more illusions and fantasy. People have illusions and fantasy with single people all the time too...but I think the very context of As promotes it more and you almost need to do a backtracking/starting over if it becomes an open R. A marriage with someone and having that end is also so much to recover from...and just like I wouldn't be rushing to date some single guy who said he just got out of a 5 year relationship last month...even more so, how much more does rebounding and the confusion that comes with ending a R are there when the person is still married or getting a D while you're trying to figure out if they're the one for you. I don't care if someone says I'm a Negative Nancy....I'm a darn smart one...as it only makes sense that it is going to be a lot more tumultuous to reasonably forge a secure relationship when you're not on equal footing...i.e. your partner is trying to untangle from someone else and you're single and ready and waiting...the things they're trying to figure out and work out ARE NOT THE SAME as what you have. Relationships are hard work and like it or not...some circumstances make it that much harder.

 

Very good and balanced post!! All Rs require some serious commitment and external things can break them up. Having baggage from a previous M can be very damaging. Having been in a bubble of sorts in the A will make it hard to transition as well. Suddenly you get to know this person much better, spending hours with them and it's sometimes not pretty. This happens a lot when people who just got married get over the honeymoon period. It can be very very hard.

 

So no Miss Bee, you aren't negative. You're just cognizant of the odds against Jessica's R.

[Lostinlife4now]

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

 

 

Bad decisions + Stupidity = my bad karma!

[Lostinlife4now]

Wanted to add:

 

I always led with my heart and my vagina....Never with my head.....

 

Stupid Stupid Stupid............

[Brokenlady]

Ah but HF. There are some posters here who just look at the title of BS or OW and defend that to the death. They really don't seem to care about the specific posters story and details. They simply must slam according to "situation" and could care less whether the individual is being destructive to there own health and sanity. Sad, really. No joke.

 

Now you portend to care about the OP??? Please. The majority of posts here are not expressions of concern for the op in reaction to her situation as you suggest, but are rather a series of mean spirited digs.