Tough to let it go.

[MyApology]

Messed up, could not keep away. I did decline twice this week, but went on our talk date. This is going to be much harder than I thought. He mentioned we both need a vacation, 3 days of just us.

He wanted me to plan his vacation with family over holidays, he is going to go were I recommended, and do what I recommended, which in thinking back, I feel sorry for everyone being taken to places i mentioned. He wished to know all which was going on in my life and when we have discussions like this it is so comforting.

I want to say Help, but not sure there is, when I am allowing this

[whichwayisup]

This is far from over because you're absolutey NO WHERE near rock bottom, can't take it anymore, lost weight, stressed out, depressed, on meds. Go read some stories in this section..

 

Anyway, you could save yourself tons of pain and heartache if you just be strong and suffer now rather than a year or two down the road when you can't take it anymore and near a nervous breakdown.

 

GET STRONG so you can end this affair. It's going to kill your heart and kill who you are if you stay.

 

Good luck.

[spice4life]

Holy cripes. Plan his family's vacation? You're letting this guy say this to you without telling him to "stick it?" Tell him to plan his own family vacation and to quit biting off your ideas. Doesn't he have any original ideas of his own? He is passive aggressively blowing pepper in your face. Nice guy.

 

You are still steeped in the fog pretty deep. I guarantee the air is a lot fresher on the outside. But alas, I do understand how hard it is to detach. It's quite possible it will take many tries before your through. You've received a ton of great advice in this forum - you should print it out and read it everyday until you gather the strength to say enough. Best wishes on your journey.

[LadyGrey]

I know it's hard, but it gets harder and more painful the longer it goes on.

 

When you are ready, I hope you can look at yourself and figure out why you allowed yourself to get involved with him. It can save you pain further down the line.

[Emme]

Honey it is detox. It is an addiction. With that said sometimes you might fall off. What you have to do is find positive thoughts to make you say you are worth more than he is offering you. You have to find the will to fight. It's as if you are diabetic and if you eat that candy bar its over. You have to try and find that type of will. It truly is will power. You have to make up your mind that you will not give in. It's heart breaking I know. You feel like he's your air but he's not. You have survived without him and you continued to breathe. When you feel the pressure log on and ask for your cheerleaders. I think we all support each other in us moving forward in life. Just ask for a cyber slap or water in the face. I say don't let it deter you. Be proud of the progress you have made and aim to do better next time. Find the will to not let your emotions take over your life.

[PhoenixRise]

Messed up, could not keep away. I did decline twice this week, but went on our talk date. This is going to be much harder than I thought. He mentioned we both need a vacation, 3 days of just us.

He wanted me to plan his vacation with family over holidays, he is going to go were I recommended, and do what I recommended, which in thinking back, I feel sorry for everyone being taken to places i mentioned. He wished to know all which was going on in my life and when we have discussions like this it is so comforting.

I want to say Help, but not sure there is, when I am allowing this

 

My first thought when I read this post was that this MM is very dangerous to you. He is asking you for ideas and recommendations regarding his family vacations? How callous of him.

 

But then I remembered some of your other posts where you write about how you are in it for the sexual chemistry and wouldn't want him for a full time partner and that you make no effort to control him like his wife does... So don't take this the wrong way, but is it possible that this man sees you as a friend with benefits only. Does he even know how you really feel about him and that you are emotionally attached? Or have you made a great effort to keep your real feelings for him hidden so that he doesn't feel pressured or controlled by you?

 

Truly, your posts are all over the place. It is pretty clear that you are getting hurt here, but is it possible that at least part of the reason you are being hurt is that you are not being honest with yourself or him about what you want?

[Gentlegirl]

OK. We have heard it all.....

 

How on earth could you plan his holiday with the family?????

 

Why did you do that?????????

 

Don't take this the wrong way. I might have done the same 18 months ago, had I been asked.

 

I think that perhaps you have not reached THE PLACE.... where things are so bad that you just have to walk away. When you get there, you will know and you will finally leave.

 

It's not easy, but if you want to have any kind of future, you will do it.

 

I don't think there is much point in telling you that now. YOu have to reach THEPLACE first.

 

However, I think you are getting there...

 

Best wishes,

 

GG

[MyApology]

Thank you from my heart for all the sound and caring advice. As many of you know, you cannot talk to anyone close to you about having an affair or it would not be a smart thing, because no matter how close you feel to someone, people like talking, esp. juicy gossip.

I was trying to think how to explain the dynamics and it is a situation I have never experienced. If someone was watching as an audience, it would seem as if it was a soap opera. The audience would be, "oh no, Jake did not just invite their families together." Oh my gosh he did not just bring his children....and so on."

FWBs as much as you can in an affair, yes, but I do believe affairs are more complicated.

When we first started to get together, he at first was expecting us to meet and it be a FWB type situation, he was like damn, I like you way too much, much more than is good for a situation like this. You deserve from me or any man much more than affair, in more words than this.

We both decided it was too much. But, he would not stay away. He was everywhere I was, close, and we came together again. Then sex.

A few weeks ago after I ended it again and he did the same coming around, and silently standing or spending time right next to me, obviously both of us not so much upset but having great difficulty with NC. We got back together. I wrote him a letter explaining how there was a strong undeniable connection between us mutually and we are drawn to one another and more. He replied that I am on his mind all day, every moment. So, he does know there are feelings there. But, he also knows I am very self controlled with my feelings, and am not going to do anything to ruin both of our lives.

I am fine how our dynamic is, but mad at myself, and mad that I choose to place the fact he is married in the back of my mind as if it does not exist.

[MyApology]

OK. We have heard it all.....

 

How on earth could you plan his holiday with the family?????

 

Why did you do that?????????

 

Don't take this the wrong way. I might have done the same 18 months ago, had I been asked.

 

I think that perhaps you have not reached THE PLACE.... where things are so bad that you just have to walk away. When you get there, you will know and you will finally leave.

 

It's not easy, but if you want to have any kind of future, you will do it.

 

I don't think there is much point in telling you that now. YOu have to reach THEPLACE first.

 

However, I think you are getting there...

 

Best wishes,

 

Good question! In thinking back, it is bizarre. When we were talking, when he asked, my response came out naturally. Oh you should stay here and definitely go here. It was not done with any motive in mind. His response was, we will do just that.

I did question myself after we parted, why he would wish for me to basically blueprint his vacation.

Edited December 15, 2011 by MyApology

[Gentlegirl]

Apology,

 

I DO think you are trying to create more out of what is happening than is actually happening. xMM is really doing a good number on you.

 

XMM used to tell me "everything" and ask advice about his trips, health etc. He used to send me pics of every family occasion because he wanted me to know "everything". It's what they DO to make you think they really want you to be part of their life. I found with xMM there was nothing I could think of that wasn't calculated . He scattered crumbs. He knew very well what was missing in my life and he used it to the max to ge what he wanted.

 

At the end of the A he turned around and walked happyily back into a life he had never really left. The D day had caused a few ripples but nothing he couldn't smooth over. That was after a 3 year relationship.

 

YOu have had a lot of excellent advice here. If you are not ready, it will fall on deaf ears. Whe you are... the advice will still be here.

 

GG

[reboot]

You planning his family vacation is creepy. Bates Motel type creepy.

[MyApology]

Creepy? Explain.

 

The only sane reason that I could come up with for this is some kind of contempt toward his wife. Vacations are a time couples spend with one another to get away from the daily struggles of normal day life. This would seem a swift kick to the jaw (I would be angry), she is happy with all he chose in the vacation, was actually my choice, and passively aggressively he can think that when she is beaming, "yes it is wonderful, BTW my girl picked out all the accomodations." So yes creepy in a way.

[bentnotbroken]

Creepy? Explain.

 

The only sane reason that I could come up with for this is some kind of contempt toward his wife. Vacations are a time couples spend with one another to get away from the daily struggles of normal day life. This would seem a swift kick to the jaw (I would be angry), she is happy with all he chose in the vacation, was actually my choice, and passively aggressively he can think that when she is beaming, "yes it is wonderful, BTW my girl picked out all the accomodations." So yes creepy in a way.

 

 

Creepy that you did it. Creepy that you placed or allowed yourself to be placed in that position. Creepy that you would want someone who did that to another human being, including the children he had with her.

[PhoenixRise]

Creepy? Explain.

 

The only sane reason that I could come up with for this is some kind of contempt toward his wife. Vacations are a time couples spend with one another to get away from the daily struggles of normal day life. This would seem a swift kick to the jaw (I would be angry), she is happy with all he chose in the vacation, was actually my choice, and passively aggressively he can think that when she is beaming, "yes it is wonderful, BTW my girl picked out all the accomodations." So yes creepy in a way.

 

 

Or

 

 

It is creepy because he is showing contempt for YOU by rubbing a happy family vacation in your face. Or because he is showing YOU that he is going to enjoy what you would consider to be a great vacation (you planned it after all) with his wife and children. You should be angry. But you are not because you are fixated on competing with and denigrating his wife.

[LadyGrey]

Or

 

 

It is creepy because he is showing contempt for YOU by rubbing a happy family vacation in your face. Or because he is showing YOU that he is going to enjoy what you would consider to be a great vacation (you planned it after all) with his wife and children. You should be angry. But you are not because you are fixated on competing with and denigrating his wife.

 

With this man's previous history of muliple affairs it appears he is getting off on the competition that he set up. He enjoys the triangle he has created. It feeds his ego, he gets a sick thrill from it. Myapology has hinted that she knows his wife, somewhat on a personal level. I gotta wonder if this man is a sociopath. We all like to think that we would recognize it but the truth is, we seldom do until we are in too deep.

[MyApology]

Or

 

 

It is creepy because he is showing contempt for YOU by rubbing a happy family vacation in your face. Or because he is showing YOU that he is going to enjoy what you would consider to be a great vacation (you planned it after all) with his wife and children. You should be angry. But you are not because you are fixated on competing with and denigrating his wife.

 

I am not in any competition with his wife. I do not wish for anything she has in her relationship with him. We are complete opposites, so comparisons do not even register in my mind. I initially was curious like anyone else would be and looked up Facebook, and was surprised she was exactly opposite than which I imagined. But that is it.

He was not rubbing it in my face because I know as he stated he wished it was us on a romantic vacation, and we could nestle, cuddle days on. He was like okay you plan it for me, tell me where I should stay, go, and....... I questioned why he would do this, and the only plausible reason was my guess, because he does this all the time. I agreed it was strange.

[spice4life]

Or

 

 

It is creepy because he is showing contempt for YOU by rubbing a happy family vacation in your face. Or because he is showing YOU that he is going to enjoy what you would consider to be a great vacation (you planned it after all) with his wife and children. You should be angry. But you are not because you are fixated on competing with and denigrating his wife.

 

I completely agree with this. As long as you are focused on his wife as the "evil doer" he wins because it keeps you from seeing him for who he really is. This is how these MM's operate (the ones who trash their wife that is). They pit the OW and the BS against one another to keep the focus off of them.

 

Call his bluff an take away his ability to manipulate and you will see exactly where you stand with him. I'm willing to bet that once you aren't buying what he is selling he will start looking for his next innocent victim. He's had multiple affairs, so he is a pro! You are not any ore special than his other OW's. Your just the one who is willing to play the game for now.

[MyApology]

With this man's previous history of muliple affairs it appears he is getting off on the competition that he set up. He enjoys the triangle he has created. It feeds his ego, he gets a sick thrill from it. Myapology has hinted that she knows his wife, somewhat on a personal level. I gotta wonder if this man is a sociopath. We all like to think that we would recognize it but the truth is, we seldom do until we are in too deep.

 

I can see why you would wonder this. I definitely would run quickly if I saw any hints of a sociopath. It is hard to write correctly what goes on in relationships. He shows genuine care towards me, not the hokey pokey care a sociopath can fake. Many times if he misinterprets something I express or write, gives me a call from work, I can hear the lump in his throat, and when he senses I am okay, all is right, he is relieved, and happy he can sense I am smiling. He is kind, funny, and sweet in all our times together. I cannot think of anything off unless it has to do with his other life.

He is an extremely confused man, I know this. Wrestling with what he trully wishes for and the feeling he has to do what is expected of him is taking its toll on him. This comes from him when we talk about the issues in our lives.

[PhoenixRise]

I am not in any competition with his wife. I do not wish for anything she has in her relationship with him. We are complete opposites, so comparisons do not even register in my mind. I initially was curious like anyone else would be and looked up Facebook, and was surprised she was exactly opposite than which I imagined. But that is it.

He was not rubbing it in my face because I know as he stated he wished it was us on a romantic vacation, and we could nestle, cuddle days on. He was like okay you plan it for me, tell me where I should stay, go, and....... I questioned why he would do this, and the only plausible reason was my guess, because he does this all the time. I agreed it was strange.

 

 

I guess you can't see it because you are in it.

 

But

 

Your posts on this forum about his wife SCREAM competition. You aren't planning it. It isn't conscious. But based on what you have posted, you are absolutely competing.

 

AND

 

You really think that just because he SAYS that he wishes it was you on the vacation that you are planning for him to enjoy with his wife and kids that he really feels that way?

 

You really think that if he cared about you he would ask YOU to plan the details of his vacation with his wife?

 

You think he doesn't know that while he is off enjoying his vacation with his wife and kids YOU will be thinking about him and wishing it was you on the vacation with him and not his wife feeding your competition with her?

 

You think he doesn't know that you are competing? You think he doesn't like it that way? You think he is not enjoying you needing to show all the ways you are better, more deserving, more compatible, more evolved, with a more pleasant voice (you criticized the woman's voice) than the wife?

 

You are competing. You won't admit it to yourself. But I don't think I am the only one reading your posts who sees it. And you can bet your last dollar that MM sees it too.

[Quiet Storm]

It is creepy because he is showing contempt for YOU by rubbing a happy family vacation in your face. Or because he is showing YOU that he is going to enjoy what you would consider to be a great vacation (you planned it after all) with his wife and children. You should be angry. But you are not because you are fixated on competing with and denigrating his wife.

 

I totally agree.

 

It is disrespectful to both women. To the wife because he is disucssing details of their private life. To the OW because his focus on his family and their activities marginalizes her.

 

I would focus on why you turn this around to make it seem like it is only disrespectful to the wife, and not you. You picture him smugly thinking about how you planned the vacation, as if you are superior to the wife. He probably asked you to plan it because he is lazy and may not be thinking of you at all. This isn't his first rodeo, so it may even be a calculated move. He could be thinking "Aww, Look how I made OW feel so important and special!" while he lounges on the beach sipping drinks with his wife.

 

The reason you are skewing reality is because your junkie mind has been activated. Just like a junkie, you want more of MM and will think of lots of valid reasons why it's okay to engage with him. You are rationalizing. Just this one time. He needs my help. He wants my input. He thinks about me all day!

 

And your junkie mind is pushing out the most important fact: He's married. Unhappily married men, men wishing for divorce, do not plan family vacations!

 

The reason he keeps sniffing around is because he wants you as his OW. He will keep sniffing around until you tell him to go away and actually mean it.

 

You know this is wrong, but sent him a letter about your great connection. That's just proof in his mind that he's got you hooked. He knows just standing by you and tossing you crumbs will reel you in and keep you there, eager for more. Although your mouth may say no, your actions say "yes"!

 

As a serial cheater, he knows it's easier to pursue you, who already admitted her "connection" to him, than to groom a new OW so that she feels "connected". At this point in time, you are his path of least resistance.

 

If you really want MM to go away, tell him sternly "This is inappropriate and if you don't keep your distance from me, I will contact your wife". Don't give him ANY positive feedback AT ALL. He will test you to see if you are serious. He will flirt and joke with you to get you to smile. Be emotionless and stern EVERY TIME he sniffs around. Eventually, he will see that you aren't game for this and move on to his next target.

 

If you really want him gone, that's what you have to do. He's not just going to give up on his own when he has invested time & energy in getting you to this point. He will be hanging around for as long as you let him.

 

Think of yourself as a parent to your inner child. Your inner child wants attention and love. No one is capable of taking care of your inner child but you. It's your job to nurture and protect her. You are setting yourself up for heartache right now, and no one is going to protect you. Your parents aren't hear to pull you off the tracks. It has to be YOU that says "No more. This is not good for me.", and take yourself out of harms way.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Quiet Storm

[MyApology]

It seems like a few of your posts are trying to make it a competition between me and his wife. There is none. I did mention her voice, which was a turn off, very screechy. And I expected a sexy little thing and it was opposite. I am just going on facts of what I see. He may find her sexy as heck. Who knows. She has never been a concern of mine in regards to competition, there is none there, zero comparisons. My concern has mainly being the what ifs.... and I need to get past these what ifs.

I was going to hold back this info from him, but because you all mentioned he is being creepy and rubbing in my face, I have a suitor, who has been wanting to date me again for awhile now, and just asked me to dinner over the holidays. Thankfully he is in a nearby city, so not to cross paths.

But maybe it is the perfect time to let him know while he is on his fun perfect family vacation, I will be enjoying the company of a 'single' man who is as successful if not more than he, who is actually a very well liked and respected guy who is crazy about me.

Hopefully he will not mind a bit as he will be as you say having a blast with his family and I am a single gal so it should not be an issue.

But not really sure I wish to share this with him, although if you do trully feel he is rubbing it in my face, maybe he should have the payback.

[LadyGrey]

I guess you can't see it because you are in it.

 

But

 

Your posts on this forum about his wife SCREAM competition. You aren't planning it. It isn't conscious. But based on what you have posted, you are absolutely competing.

 

I agree and I'm an xow. Even your subtle reference to how you are completely different than her is a sign that you are trying to make yourself feel superior. A lot of what you have wrote doesn't even require reading between the lines and it's obvious to so many posters. It doesn't make you a terrible person, but a flawed person who is not seeing clearly what your own motivations are.

 

Honey, your man picker is broken, like so many of us that have walked this road before you.

 

AND

 

You really think that just because he SAYS that he wishes it was you on the vacation that you are planning for him to enjoy with his wife and kids that he really feels that way?

 

Of course he is going to tell you, he wished he could be with you, seriously what else is he going to say to keep you on the hook?

 

I know, we want to believe the words that come out of their mouths, because they make us feel better, make us feel wanted, maybe even loved, but words don't mean anything really.

 

You really think that if he cared about you he would ask YOU to plan the details of his vacation with his wife?

 

You think he doesn't know that while he is off enjoying his vacation with his wife and kids YOU will be thinking about him and wishing it was you on the vacation with him and not his wife feeding your competition with her?

 

You think he doesn't know that you are competing? You think he doesn't like it that way? You think he is not enjoying you needing to show all the ways you are better, more deserving, more compatible, more evolved, with a more pleasant voice (you criticized the woman's voice) than the wife?

 

You are competing. You won't admit it to yourself. But I don't think I am the only one reading your posts who sees it. And you can bet your last dollar that MM sees it too.

 

Oh your mm knows exactly what he is doing, he is well practiced and the sooner you accept it, the more you will be aware of the games he is playing with you. No one likes to admit that we've been played, but he is playing you. Remember his history. His history indicates he is well practiced. He sooo knows exactly what he is doing.

 

You are lucky in ways, you have information, (serial cheater) that allows you to make a more informed decision about what a dangerous man this is.

[LadyGrey]

It seems like a few of your posts are trying to make it a competition between me and his wife. There is none. I did mention her voice, which was a turn off, very screechy. And I expected a sexy little thing and it was opposite. I am just going on facts of what I see. He may find her sexy as heck. Who knows. She has never been a concern of mine in regards to competition, there is none there, zero comparisons. My concern has mainly being the what ifs.... and I need to get past these what ifs.

I was going to hold back this info from him, but because you all mentioned he is being creepy and rubbing in my face, I have a suitor, who has been wanting to date me again for awhile now, and just asked me to dinner over the holidays. Thankfully he is in a nearby city, so not to cross paths.

But maybe it is the perfect time to let him know while he is on his fun perfect family vacation, I will be enjoying the company of a 'single' man who is as successful if not more than he, who is actually a very well liked and respected guy who is crazy about me.

Hopefully he will not mind a bit as he will be as you say having a blast with his family and I am a single gal so it should not be an issue.

But not really sure I wish to share this with him, although if you do trully feel he is rubbing it in my face, maybe he should have the payback.

 

Rubbing in his face will do you no good, it's just game playing on your part and you can bet he will turn on the charm in one way or the other, maybe even telling you that you deserve better than what he can give you. If he says such, it's just another manipulation. He knows exactly what he is doing.

 

Just go out with the new guy, free your head of the thoughts of mm, he ain't worth it. Don't go for the drama. Just don't play in his sandbox, live your life, cut him out of it.

[MyApology]

And see THAT is the difference between he and I. I feel going out with another is cheating, isn't that crazy. I feel I should be honest if I do, that is why I have been holding back going on a date with him. I really wish I did not allow myself to get knee deep in this sh*t!!!

[Owl]

Two thoughts.

 

First...you consistently claim that there is no competition at all in your mind between you and his wife...and yet you consistently post little snippets of things that you see as negative about her.

 

Non sequiter.

 

Second...your more recent posts indicate that you're starting to see that this isn't the best path for you...great...so what are you going to do about it?

 

If you feel that the situation should change...change the situation.

 

What are you doing to change the situation?