In dating, who gets rejected more, men or women?

[musemaj11]

You don't hire a woman when you start dating her. How can you compare it to a fitness trainer?! And who said you can't discontinue a relationship with a woman! Just don't call relationships "services" and women - service providers.

But in reality that is what it is. Unless they absolutely have no other choice, no woman wants to get involved with a man who is of no financial benefit to her. Just like I said before, women see romance as receiving, especially materially, not giving ( I mean have you ever met a woman who is happy that in her relationship she has to be the one paying for dates, driving around with her car, and providing for her perfectly healthy adult man? ). So its a fact on the ground that even if they refuse to call it what it is, women are indeed expecting direct/indirect compensation for their time and attention and in business this is none other than 'providing service for profit'.

 

Move to a smaller town, dude!

 

Obviously this is a sensitive topic for you: having a car.

Dude, if you don't have a car, maybe you can rent a limo?

 

(stealing Marie Antoinette's joke)

I have had a car since I was 20 (nothing fancy though). But I have always held a grudge that I was having problem getting a decent girl accepting me in college when I was still taking the bus everywhere. And one time I even had a girl lost interest in me after learning that I drove a 94' Mazda (my beloved first car).

 

All my views on women that I express on this forum are not derived from assumptions, but from my own life experiences.

 

I have come to learn early that women perceive 'love' differently than men. While men believe in, "I love, thus I give all", women believe in, "I benefit, thus I love".

 

Regarding women with no options... they can still choose among the guys with no options... Oh, the problem is the latter wants the hot women!

Men are buyers and women are sellers. Just like a woman with no options still wants to 'sell' herself for a high price, a man with no options, too hopes to purchase a high quality good with the little money he has.

 

It's not women who invented the idea that men should pay for them.

 

Not true. Women don't date men because they need men to feed them. It's a ritual the society has invented. Precisely, men have invented it to be able to take a woman out when she's not sure she wants to go out with that man.

Thats like saying women invented the concept of beauty in order to attract men. The truth is that we all merely respond to demand. All men would compete to have the smallest penis if small penis were what women see as desirable and all women would compete to be the wealthiest if wealth were what men see as attractive.

 

Hey, until 50 years ago or even sooner, men were telling women that they were not supposed to work. It was unimaginable for a woman to pay for anything. Now all of a sudden you want to change a long tradition overnight. All societies suck in one way or another. Be happy you have food, clothes, internet, etc. Bring a woman from a third-world country; she'll be grateful for having a decent meal every day... until she gets her green card, at least!

But today men have progressed from old tradition at a lot faster pace than women. Its much easier to find a man who doesnt believe that a woman's place is at home and in the kitchen than to find a woman who doesnt believe that its the job of a man to pay on dates. Perhaps its because men are the more logical sex thus they are quicker to be made aware of an injustice.

 

What about successful women? What about a woman who's unattractive but makes $50,000? What about an attractive woman who makes $100,000?

The higher her own earning, the higher a woman usually appraises her price tag should be, something that is ironic since men judge a woman by her youth and beauty not her monetary worth. This is in fact the answer to the frequently brought up "men are intimidated by successful women" questions that are often posed by career women who have troubles finding love. Its not that men are intimidated by them. Its just that men disagree to pay for the price that those women think they deserve to get. A female lawyer may think that she has the right to at least a male doctor, but to the male doctor, the fact that she is a lawyer is nothing more than a small bonus, not the main attraction.

 

 

Before sex: men.

 

After sex: women.

Men are the creators of relationships and they are also the ones with the right to end what they started.

Edited December 27, 2011 by musemaj11

[Andy_K]

This

 

Before a relationship I have been rejected more, but once a relationship has started, I have done the dumping more than I have been dumped.

 

Ditto. I've never been dumped by anyone I've been in a proper relationship with, but I've had a whole lot of first dates who didn't want to see me again.

 

 

I'm going to say that men get rejected more, but when women get rejected it hurts more, because they're likely to be more invested by then.

[Thieves]

All my views on women that I express on this forum are not derived from assumptions, but from my own life experiences.

 

Right, exactly! This is what I was thinking most of the time when I read your posts on women and material wealth. Your views are based on your life experiences, which of course are valid in their own right... but that doesn't exactly mean that most of the women out there will match up with those views, or else they're the "exceptions." It's a good thing to have experience in life and to have learned from it, but it's a different thing altogether when you allow that experience to keep you from being open to other things (or people) that may actually be different from it.

 

It just seems naive to think after a few bad experiences that, "Well, based on my life experiences, point blank: all women are like this, and all men are like that." Because, as said, personal experience is useful... but it’s also limited in a way, because we’re always learning and meeting new people in our lives who make us think about our views on people.

 

I have come to learn early that women perceive 'love' differently than men. While men believe in, "I love, thus I give all", women believe in, "I benefit, thus I love".

 

And this is very false to me, because the last thing I feel when I love a man is, "Do I benefit?" or "I benefit, thus I love." More like, "I love, thus I benefit", which is more in the way of how being with a person who is right for you tends to rub off and makes you want to be a better person. There are many women out there who are similar to me in that aspect, and I honestly don’t think it’s all that rare, if you’re going after the right women...

[silvermercy]

Women clearly have more options than men. If a woman puts her dating profile up on a website, she'll have 50 men initiate contact within a week. We men, we're lucky to have 2 or 3 women contact us within a week.

 

Like one poster said earlier, he knows several men in their 30's who have never had a girlfriend or a relationship. Some have never had sex.

 

Women, on the other hand, by that age, have all had at least one relationship or boyfriend. If they are still a virgin, it's only because she has chosen to keep her virginity, not because she never had the chance.Myself, I'm pretty jaded by the whole system, but it is life. Anyone here claiming that women experience as much rejection as men is completely wrong.

 

You've just described me. LOL Indeed, I signed up on eharmony website last year and I put up a single photo of me and a few words underneath. Within a day I had close to 50 emails and as the weeks progressed the number had gone up and up and up (eventually I discontinued emails because it was getting too much). Same happened on OKCupid (but there, I usually got hundreds of rude emails from men who were not interested in serious relationships so I stopped going on that site).

 

Also, I was an older virgin (late 20s) BY CHOICE, too, (I was just talking about in another thread). LOL

[silvermercy]

Before sex: men.

 

After sex: women.

Indeed. And that was a reason a remained an older female virgin (see above post). I was just protecting myself (i.e. not so much about morals but self-protection mechanism against jerks and players).

[TheSingleGuy]

See, women not putting out isn't because it's the "moral" thing to do. It's because you women want to protect yourselves from ever feeling rejection.

 

Women say they don't fall in love with a man by having sex with them, but it sure sounds like they do. And based on my experience, they do for a fact fall in love when they put out.

 

The really f***ed up part of all this, is, 70 to 90 percent of all break ups and divorces are the desire of the woman.

 

Honestly, I can see why I am a jaded and bitter man, but I can't understand why other men aren't just as jaded as me.

[Emilia]

Unattractive men and unattractive women.

 

This for reasons that kaylan explained on the first page

[Emilia]

Before sex: men.

 

After sex: women.

 

This is probably true as well though touch would so far it isn't applicable to me (I'm sure the day will come).

[Emilia]

When I hire a fitness instructor and after some time I decide to stop his service, its no big deal. He has no reason to get upset since I paid him over the course of his service. He should not expect me to feel obligated to use his service forever.

 

The car and the gas a man pays for to drive a woman around costs money dude. Very few women (women with no options) want a man who doesnt have car, let alone having to be the one driving him around!

 

Not to mention the amount of money that men regularly spend to buy their women meals, entertainment tickets, gifts, etc.

 

Lets get real, most women treat themselves as commodities while most men also in turn treat them as such.

 

I mean if a man tells a woman that he expects her to pay for most if not all of the dating expenses of the two of them, you bet she is going to run as far as she can. But if its the opposite, suddenly its romance!

 

The fact is that every woman puts a price tag on herself. The ones who charge little are those who don't attract a lot of buyers in the first place so they have to sell themselves at a bargain price.

 

Get back to us when you get a girlfriend.

[Emilia]

Ditto. I've never been dumped by anyone I've been in a proper relationship with,

 

same but then I date more like a man

 

I'm going to say that men get rejected more, but when women get rejected it hurts more, because they're likely to be more invested by then.

 

Yes

[Oxy Moronovich]

But in reality that is what it is. Unless they absolutely have no other choice, no woman wants to get involved with a man who is of no financial benefit to her. Just like I said before, women see romance as receiving, especially materially, not giving ( I mean have you ever met a woman who is happy that in her relationship she has to be the one paying for dates, driving around with her car, and providing for her perfectly healthy adult man? ). So its a fact on the ground that even if they refuse to call it what it is, women are indeed expecting direct/indirect compensation for their time and attention and in business this is none other than 'providing service for profit'.

Like it or not, this dude makes perfect sense. How many women are okay with paying for men during the "getting to know you" phase? None.

 

I've only heard stories of women supporting men when they are in longterm relationships. In some of these stories, women complain that they financially supported men when those men were down, only for the guys to leave them when the men got on their feet. Women fail to realize men have been putting up with that type of behavior from women for centuries (milleniums?). How many stories are there of men financially supporting women only for the women to leave? The internet doesn't have enough bandwidth to catalogue them all.

[kaylan]

^This.

 

#srs

 

He makes a very valid point. Society conditions us into many double standards though. Im just looking for a woman whos intelligent enough to have swallowed the right pill in the past and unplugged from this matrix.

Edited December 28, 2011 by kaylan

[PlumPrincess]

Like it or not, this dude makes perfect sense. How many women are okay with paying for men during the "getting to know you" phase? None.

 

I've only heard stories of women supporting men when they are in longterm relationships. In some of these stories, women complain that they financially supported men when those men were down, only for the guys to leave them when the men got on their feet. Women fail to realize men have been putting up with that type of behavior from women for centuries (milleniums?). How many stories are there of men financially supporting women only for the women to leave? The internet doesn't have enough bandwidth to catalogue them all.

I usually pay for myself, but I have to say, the way some men get worked up about having to pay for a date is really off putting. I don't think it's fair that I have to pay like twice for a hair cut. Or that it will I have to take a break when I have children and that it will be difficult to get back into the job market afterwards. Or that society expects women to be prettier and sexier than men.

 

I can imagine that you are the kind of man who will harrass his wife when she spends too much money on grocery shopping or buying anything that you don't approve since you are the main breadwinner and she is just the one who is staying at home and taking care of the kids.

[Oxy Moronovich]

I usually pay for myself, but I have to say, the way some men get worked up about having to pay for a date is really off putting. I don't think it's fair that I have to pay like twice for a hair cut. Or that it will I have to take a break when I have children and that it will be difficult to get back into the job market afterwards. Or that society expects women to be prettier and sexier than men.

I'd say men getting worked up about having to pay for dates is off-putting for you because you don't have money.

 

So I should pay for dates because you spend more on hair than I do? I know plenty of women who spend little money on hair. Should I pay more on a date for a woman who spends $50 on her hair than a woman who spends $20?

 

This quote here is also stupid:

"Or that it will I have to take a break when I have children and that it will be difficult to get back into the job market afterwards. Or that society expects women to be prettier and sexier than men."

 

Why does the fact that you're going to have children someday mean I should pay for your dates? What if they're not my kids? What if you don't have children at all?

 

Plus, society expects everyone to be in shape. Do you know how much my gym membership at Lifetime Fitness costs? Do you even go to the gym? Considering that your name is Plump Rincess, I doubt it.

 

Society places a great emphasis on man's looks and his wealth. It's not enough to for a man to have an apartment and a car. Now a dude needs to have the latest trappings of status: nice car, apartment, clothes, hip personality, connected network, good genes for breeding, etc.

 

A woman can be broke but look pretty and society loves her. A man who is broke is looked down upon no matter how smart or well-adjusted he is. I had women judging me by my status even before I turned 21.

 

Women are whining that society places greater pressures on them than men and that's why they deserve royalty treatment. Many guys are too wise to believe that BS and so many women are getting angry about that.

[musemaj11]

I usually pay for myself, but I have to say, the way some men get worked up about having to pay for a date is really off putting.

And I dont push women for sex, but I have to say the way many women whine about being expected to put out early is really off putting.

 

You see how that works? Its easy to find it off putting when others dont like to do what we like.

 

I don't think it's fair that I have to pay like twice for a hair cut.

Cutting a woman's hair is a lot more complicated.

 

Or that it will I have to take a break when I have children and that it will be difficult to get back into the job market afterwards.

No one says that you have to take a break when you children. Most women volunteer or even expect to take a break from work to care for their babies. This is the main reason why women want a wealthy man. They want a workhorse who will keep the money coming when they decide to quit working so they could stay home with their kids. A woman will only commit to a man whom she can use as a safety net.

 

Or that society expects women to be prettier and sexier than men.

Society on the other hand expects men to be brave and successful.

 

I can imagine that you are the kind of man who will harrass his wife when she spends too much money on grocery shopping or buying anything that you don't approve since you are the main breadwinner and she is just the one who is staying at home and taking care of the kids.

Well, if he makes the money then he has the right to decide how its spent. You have ever worked, havent you? Making money isnt easy. No one likes to have their hard earned money thrown away in a way that he/she doesnt approve of. Edited December 28, 2011 by musemaj11

[PlumPrincess]

I'd say men getting worked up about having to pay for dates is off-putting for you because you don't have money.

 

So I should pay for dates because you spend more on hair than I do? I know plenty of women who spend little money on hair. Should I pay more on a date for a woman who spends $50 on her hair than a woman who spends $20?

 

This quote here is also stupid:

"Or that it will I have to take a break when I have children and that it will be difficult to get back into the job market afterwards. Or that society expects women to be prettier and sexier than men."

 

Why does the fact that you're going to have children someday mean I should pay for your dates? What if they're not my kids? What if you don't have children at all?

I've been trying to tell you that life as a woman is also not always fair and we also often have financial disadvantages for the mere fact that we are women.

 

Plus, society expects everyone to be in shape. Do you know how much my gym membership at Lifetime Fitness costs? Do you even go to the gym? Considering that your name is Plump Rincess, I doubt it.

Even your insults are lame.

[PlumPrincess]

And I dont push women for sex, but I have to say the way many women whine about being expected to put out early is really off putting.

 

You see how that works? Its easy to find it off putting when others dont like to do what we like.

It happens rarely and I don't whine about it. I move on and find someone else.

 

No one says that you have to take a break when you children. Most women volunteer or even expect to take a break from work to care for their babies. This is the main reason why women want a wealthy man. They want a workhorse who will keep the money coming when they decide to quit working so they could stay home with their kids.

Who is taking care of the kids then?

 

Well, if he makes the money then he has the right to decide how its spent. You have ever worked, havent you? Making money isnt easy. No one likes to have their hard earned money thrown away in a way that he/she doesnt approve of.

So being at home and cooking, cleaning, taking care of the children, etc. is not worth anything.

 

By the way, you guys need to stop making assumptions about posters that you don't know. I've probably worked more in my life and earned more money than you. I'm really not surprised anymore that you guys are not able to find someone. I've rarely read so much nonsense.

[NYC-BigKat]

The question is right there. Who experiences more rejection in dating, men or women? And why?

 

This is a really dumb thread because the world knows that only women get to reject men 90% of the time because we have to do all the asking out while she just sits there & looks pretty.

[Oxy Moronovich]

I've been trying to tell you that life as a woman is also not always fair and we also often have financial disadvantages for the mere fact that we are women.

 

 

Even your insults are lame.

Yes, and we all know your insults are witty and memorable.

 

In any case, I've met plenty of women who still insist on the man paying when their income is equal to the men they are dating. And there are many cases where women say they refuse to pay for the dates for men who make less than they do.

 

Unless she's desperate, women feel entitled to being showered with money simply for being women, and are stingy as hell when it comes to showering others (especially men).

[silvermercy]

This is a really dumb thread because the world knows that only women get to reject men 90% of the time because we have to do all the asking out while she just sits there & looks pretty.

Well, you could say that's a hard job in itself... (un-pretty women may not get asked out at all or will have to spend thousands to prettify themselves).

[Oxy Moronovich]

Well, you could say that's a hard job in itself... (un-pretty women may not get asked out at all or will have to spend thousands to prettify themselves).

Don't forget the requirement for males is just as crushing. Guys got to have status: nice apartment, nice car, clothes, the latest accessories, great job, hip personality, etc. A woman can look pretty but have a crummy personality and a crummy apartment and society doesn't give her crap for it. Not like a dude with a good personality but a crappy job.

[dasein]

and we also often have financial disadvantages for the mere fact that we are women.

 

Wrong, the opposite is the case. Women in the U.S. and other industrialized countries have significant financial advantages over men. Women control 70-80% of the wealth in the U.S. and 75-90% of the purchasing power. Those numbers certainly don't reflect any "financial disadvantage." In addition, the wage gap and glass ceiling are feminist politically motivated lies.

Edited December 28, 2011 by dasein

[Oxy Moronovich]

Wrong, the opposite is the case. Women in the U.S. and other industrialized countries have significant financial advantages over men. Women control 70-80% of the wealth in the U.S. and 75-90% of the purchasing power. Those numbers certainly don't reflect any "financial disadvantage." In addition, the wage gap and glass ceiling are feminist politically motivated lies.

*claps hands*

[dasein]

but I have to say, the way some men get worked up about having to pay for a date is really off putting.

 

Men are still culturally expected to do most of the asking out for early dates. Even an absurdly cheap $25 date adds up in time. For OLDers, the last average number of dates I saw was 2 per week, so there's $50 per week for men doing OLD, or $200 per month bare minimum. Over years this, especially including more realistic modern dating costs, can add up to serious cash, I have been dating off and on for 20 years and have estimated that the "gentleman tax" has added up to well over $50,000 in my lifetime.

 

This includes a) the "early date tax for men" where men assume 100% of the financial risk of early dating, and women feel free to simply ignore a guy who may have spent 100-200 dollars on her over 2-5 dates; b) the "relationship tax for men" where regardless of what a woman makes, the man ends up spending a highly imbalanced amount on relationship activities; and c) the "gift imbalance tax for men" where men spend 3-10x the amount on their GF/wife that is spent on them in terms of presents and "special just for her" holidays like anniversaries and valentines which men would certainly not "celebrate" as extravagantly as they do if they weren't extorted into it.

 

My estimate does not include reasonable interest, which would raise the amount of the "gentelman tax" to well over $150,000.

 

To preempt, usual LS illogic suspects, spare me irrelevant outliers about "some poor guy" you dated who didn't have a car. We all know the general truth of the above tripartite tax on men in relationships, and all know several exceptions, doesn't change the general truth one iota. Don't even bother trying to use singular experiences to disprove the above valid generalization. Admittedly, things are changing, not nearly fast enough though.

[PlumPrincess]

Wrong, the opposite is the case. Women in the U.S. and other industrialized countries have significant financial advantages over men. Women control 70-80% of the wealth in the U.S. and 75-90% of the purchasing power. Those numbers certainly don't reflect any "financial disadvantage." In addition, the wage gap and glass ceiling are feminist politically motivated lies.

Cite your source.