In dating, who gets rejected more, men or women?

[PlumPrincess]

Men are still culturally expected to do most of the asking out for early dates. Even an absurdly cheap $25 date adds up in time. For OLDers, the last average number of dates I saw was 2 per week, so there's $50 per week for men doing OLD, or $200 per month bare minimum. Over years this, especially including more realistic modern dating costs, can add up to serious cash, I have been dating off and on for 20 years and have estimated that the "gentleman tax" has added up to well over $50,000 in my lifetime.

 

This includes a) the "early date tax for men" where men assume 100% of the financial risk of early dating, and women feel free to simply ignore a guy who may have spent 100-200 dollars on her over 2-5 dates; b) the "relationship tax for men" where regardless of what a woman makes, the man ends up spending a highly imbalanced amount on relationship activities; and c) the "gift imbalance tax for men" where men spend 3-10x the amount on their GF/wife that is spent on them in terms of presents and "special just for her" holidays like anniversaries and valentines which men would certainly not "celebrate" as extravagantly as they do if they weren't extorted into it.

 

My estimate does not include reasonable interest, which would raise the amount of the "gentelman tax" to well over $150,000.

 

To preempt, usual LS illogic suspects, spare me irrelevant outliers about "some poor guy" you dated who didn't have a car. We all know the general truth of the above tripartite tax on men in relationships, and all know several exceptions, doesn't change the general truth one iota. Don't even bother trying to use singular experiences to disprove the above valid generalization. Admittedly, things are changing, not nearly fast enough though.

You know what I'm starting to think? That the tradition that men pay for a date is actually a sh*t test. Because if he is the guy who goes on whining about that, he's the kind of guy like musemaj11, who is still in college (?), has probably never held a full-time job in his life, maybe not even a part-time job, but thinks that a woman is a lazy bummer for staying at home and doing things like cooking, cleaning and taking care of the kids and that's why she should not have a say in the financial budget at home.

[Woggle]

My wife and I have seperate accounts and as long as both are putting in our half web don't question each other.

 

I don't mind paying on dates when I am already with a woman. I am very generous with a woman I am involved with but what's the point of wasting money on somebody that might not even want to talk to me the next day. If I do pay I am taking her somewhere we can both eat for less then forty bucks and that includes the tip.

[Woggle]

You know what I'm starting to think? That the tradition that men pay for a date is actually a sh*t test. Because if he is the guy who goes on whining about that, he's the kind of guy like musemaj11, who is still in college (?), has probably never held a full-time job in his life, maybe not even a part-time job, but thinks that a woman is a lazy bummer for staying at home and doing things like cooking, cleaning and taking care of the kids and that's why she should not have a say in the financial budget at home.

 

The fact that a woman has a sh*t test is an automatic dealbreaker. I like to just get to naturally know a woman and see if a good connection is there instead of being tested like it is a job interview.

[Oxy Moronovich]

You know what I'm starting to think? That the tradition that men pay for a date is actually a sh*t test. Because if he is the guy who goes on whining about that, he's the kind of guy like musemaj11, who is still in college (?), has probably never held a full-time job in his life, maybe not even a part-time job, but thinks that a woman is a lazy bummer for staying at home and doing things like cooking, cleaning and taking care of the kids and that's why she should not have a say in the financial budget at home.

You keep talking about relationship issues down the line. Most guys here are talking about paying for dates on a woman we don't know. I don't like to constantly spend money on chicks I'm not committed to. Other guys feel the same way. If we're in a committed, LTR, I feel less apprehensive about paying.

 

No one should trust the jibber-jabber of a woman with the word "princess" in her username. That just reeks of entitlement. And you're just trying to give excuses for why you want men to spend money on you just for having a pussy.

[dasein]

Cite your source.

 

Not inclined to do much googling when it won't do one whit of good, but here's one from the first page of results, written by a woman.

 

http://she-conomy.com/report/marketing-to-women-quick-facts/

[Casablanca]

Not inclined to do much googling when it won't do one whit of good, but here's one from the first page of results, written by a woman.

 

http://she-conomy.com/report/marketing-to-women-quick-facts/

This really just shows that women spend a lot of money, which they do, they shop. The buy a million ****ing purses and shoes...not a shock...they're not necessarily spending THEIR money though

 

Women typically make less money than their male colleagues in the same profession

 

http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/issuebrf/sib99352.htm

[dasein]

You know what I'm starting to think? That the tradition that men pay for a date is actually a sh*t test. Because if he is the guy who goes on whining about that, he's the kind of guy like musemaj11, who is still in college (?), has probably never held a full-time job in his life, maybe not even a part-time job, but thinks that a woman is a lazy bummer for staying at home and doing things like cooking, cleaning and taking care of the kids and that's why she should not have a say in the financial budget at home.

 

You don't have to window dress, we all know you are going to figure out a way to back into whatever reality is most convenient and favorable to you, regardless of the state of "real" reality. Have seen it a thousand times and several hundred times here on LS. The gigantic perpetual rationalizations women try to sell comprises about 3/4 of my problems with women generally. Just own the venality and own that the average woman's version of equality today is a cafeteria plan where women pick and choose aspects of the past that remain favorable to women while going on about why aspects of the present that are discriminatory against men (affirmative action, reproductive rights) should be continued.

[dasein]

This really just shows that women spend a lot of money, which they do, they shop. The buy a million ****ing purses and shoes...not a shock...they're not necessarily spending THEIR money though

 

Women typically make less money than their male colleagues in the same profession

 

http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/issuebrf/sib99352.htm

 

Wrong. Read the whole post next time, especially the part about women over 50 controlling 70% of the wealth NOW and the trend increasing as the baby boomers age and men die before women.

 

I don't need to even click on the link you provide to know that it doesn't control for a) women working more part time than men, hence not achieving the same experience value in the workplace as fast, b) women leaving the workforce to have children of their own choice, devalues their experience curve in the same way as "a," c) women seeking out easier jobs that don't entail danger or the elements and so pay less, d) women avoiding more high paying technical degrees, of their own choice, because they want to major in "cool" liberal arts and other fields instead of math & science (schools literally beg and pay for more female hard science and math students, a particularly egregious form of affirmative action that denies slots to men who want to be in these fields), e) women eschewing the same kinds of long hours and workhorse type job behavior that men willingly undertake in the desire to get ahead.

[dasein]

Oh Lawlz, I actually did click on the link, 1995 numbers? in engineering only? Hoo haa. Same old crap, different day here on LS.

[mr_sexxxy]

I reject a lot of women.

 

Women are so arrogant these days, they expect to get laid by intelligent, good looking, well dressed successful men even if they are fat, ugly, have a nasty disposition, dress like slobs, don't brush their teeth, or all of the above.

 

Men just lack standards these days, leading to a buyer's market for women. Not just attractive and kind women, but butt ugly and mean, gross women as well.

[Casablanca]

Oh Lawlz, I actually did click on the link, 1995 numbers? in engineering only? Hoo haa. Same old crap, different day here on LS.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1983185,00.html

"That's because U.S. women still earned only 77 cents on the male dollar in 2008, according to the latest census statistics.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1983185,00.html#ixzz1hrs2Qyow"

 

 

Also the article I posted the first time, the fist line was talking about the US as a whole NOT JUST ENGINEERS and then article compares engineers to the whole US

 

Wrong. Read the whole post next time, especially the part about women over 50 controlling 70% of the wealth NOW and the trend increasing as the baby boomers age and men die before women.

 

I don't need to even click on the link you provide to know that it doesn't control for a) women working more part time than men, hence not achieving the same experience value in the workplace as fast, b) women leaving the workforce to have children of their own choice, devalues their experience curve in the same way as "a," c) women seeking out easier jobs that don't entail danger or the elements and so pay less, d) women avoiding more high paying technical degrees, of their own choice, because they want to major in "cool" liberal arts and other fields instead of math & science (schools literally beg and pay for more female hard science and math students, a particularly egregious form of affirmative action that denies slots to men who want to be in these fields), e) women eschewing the same kinds of long hours and workhorse type job behavior that men willingly undertake in the desire to get ahead.

 

I did read the whole article

 

Senior women age 50 and older control net worth of $19 trillion and own more than three-fourths of the nation’s financial wealth

Where did that money come from? How much is from inheritances? Women live longer than men, and are more likely to inherent money than men

 

Over the next decade, women will control two thirds of consumer wealth in the United States and be the beneficiaries of the largest transference of wealth in our country’s history. Estimates range from $12 to $40 trillion. Many Boomer women will experience a double inheritance windfall, from both parents and husband. The Boomer woman is a consumer that luxury brands want to resonate with

How much does this have to do with them earning it and how much does it have to do with inheritance?

 

Unless I missed it, pretty much every other bullet just compares women with women or doesnt give hard numbers on males

[PlumPrincess]

You don't have to window dress, we all know you are going to figure out a way to back into whatever reality is most convenient and favorable to you, regardless of the state of "real" reality. Have seen it a thousand times and several hundred times here on LS. The gigantic perpetual rationalizations women try to sell comprises about 3/4 of my problems with women generally. Just own the venality and own that the average woman's version of equality today is a cafeteria plan where women pick and choose aspects of the past that remain favorable to women while going on about why aspects of the present that are discriminatory against men (affirmative action, reproductive rights) should be continued.

Why do you want a relationship with people that you so despise?

 

You are really the kind of guy who reproaches his wife because she "doesn't work" and therefore should not spent his money so carelessly.

[dasein]

Men just lack standards these days, leading to a buyer's market for women. Not just attractive and kind women, but butt ugly and mean, gross women as well.

 

Agree with this. Whole thread is beyond silly. The average man gets rejected and financially penalized in the process a large multiple over the rejection average women experience. Are men to blame for this? Absolutely.

 

The times they are a changin, though, as more and more men master their sexual desire and learn how to navigate (or rather avoid) the stacked deck of relationships/marriage. A continuing plummeting marriage rate, rising divorce rate, rising single parent household rate will be a few of the big results. We all suffer as a result.

 

We are breeding better men through adversity and worse women through privilege in the U.S. Give it a couple decades and an implosion of discriminatory practices against men and the results will not be pretty or culturally desirable.

[dasein]

Why do you want a relationship with people that you so despise?

 

You are really the kind of guy who reproaches his wife because she "doesn't work" and therefore should not spent his money so carelessly.

 

You have no idea what I want or don't want in life, second paragraph is complete straw.

 

Oh, and disagreeing with privileged female attitudes here or elsewhere doesn't equate to "despising women," beyond stale, time to find a different brand of illogic.

[PlumPrincess]

women leaving the workforce to have children of their own choice

These are women who usually have men and these men want to have children with these women. Usually it's because these people are in love and want to have a family together..

[dasein]

I did read the whole article

 

Obviously not because it also answers...

 

Where did that money come from? How much is from inheritances? Women live longer than men, and are more likely to inherent money than men

 

Less than half is claimed to come from inheritance.

 

And so what if some of it is from inheritance? Green is green, purchasing power is purchasing power, and a vast amount of purchasing takes place post 50.

 

Unless I missed it, pretty much every other bullet just compares women with women or doesnt give hard numbers on males

 

Accept those numbers as accurate or not, if they are accurate, they cleanly and dispositively disprove that women are in any way shape or form "financially disadvantaged" as a gender in the U.S. which was the original objectionable contention.

[PlumPrincess]

You have no idea what I want or don't want in life, second paragraph is complete straw.

I'm actually pretty good with making educated guesses.

[dasein]

These are women who usually have men and these men want to have children with these women. Usually it's because these people are in love and want to have a family together..

 

Sure, there are some like this. There are also a helluva lot of men who thought they were marrying an "earning" woman who would continue earning at some point after childbirth who come up with the short straw in realizing to what extent they have been scammed when the dust settles and it was all about her and her babies from day one.

[dasein]

Cite your source.

 

I'm actually pretty good with making educated guesses.

 

-You- made the groundless claim that men should pay for dates because women are "financially disadvantaged" in other ways. I called you on it, and cited my source.

 

Now, to show us just how "educated" your guesses really are, cite -your- source for the initial claim that women are financially disadvantaged as a gender in the U.S.

 

No? Thought not.

[PlumPrincess]

-You- made the groundless claim that men should pay for dates because women are "financially disadvantaged" in other ways. I called you on it, and cited my source.

 

Now, to show us just how "educated" your guesses really are, cite -your- source for the initial claim that women are financially disadvantaged as a gender in the U.S.

 

No? Thought not.

Actually, I already told you. My examples were hair cuts and getting back into the job market after you had a child.

 

If a woman proclaims she will stop shaving under her arms because she doesn't want to be subjected to male beauty standards, that's also her choice. I guess, that she will deter a lot of men, but surely there will be some men who don't mind. If you don't want to pay for a date, just don't do it. Some women surely won't mind.

[dasein]

Actually, I already told you. My examples were hair cuts and getting back into the job market after you had a child.

 

Expensive haircuts are far from a necessity, men also get their hair cut. As far as children go, taking an earnings hit due to the voluntary decision to have a child is not an example of "financial disadvantage." I may take a year off to perfect my golf swing, wonder how much sympathy that will get me during salary negotiations as a "financial disadvantage?"

 

If you don't want to pay for a date, just don't do it. Some women surely won't mind.

 

If only it were that simple and women didn't sit around cackling back and forth poisoning the dating pool by "cheap calling" and otherwise slandering men who don't tow the "equality lie" most women today espouse.

[Oxy Moronovich]

Actually, I already told you. My examples were hair cuts and getting back into the job market after you had a child.

Cite your sources.

 

If a woman proclaims she will stop shaving under her arms because she doesn't want to be subjected to male beauty standards, that's also her choice. I guess, that she will deter a lot of men, but surely there will be some men who don't mind. If you don't want to pay for a date, just don't do it. Some women surely won't mind.

The problem is, you're not one of them. A bigger problem is the majority of women in North America do mind.

[samsungxoxo]

There are different types of the rejections so it depends on what you're referring to.

 

a) In asking out on a date: Men

The only time I would actually ask a man out is if I knew him and he already liked me or if he was too shy to do it himself. However, I wouldn't really go ask a random stranger out. This type of rejection is really shorted lived for you men.

Alright let's say the woman accepts the date, you pay for it but then don't hear from her. Ok so what? Money comes and goes. You can always recover from that and it's not like you invested too much on that. The second example below is really a blow to the heart.

 

b) Changing relationship status towards engagement: Women

This depends when some men either are undecided if you're the right woman even after spending years or simply can string us along. The fact that either he's still not ready after way more than enough time have passed by or keeps saying he is but never proposes is the worst rejection ever. This isn't money that you can earn back the next day or so. This is like telling me ''You were never worth good enough for me and I don't trust you at all'' rejection. So basically after all the time we were faithful and opened-up to you, is not good enough?

 

c) Rejection as a whole: People

Both men and women go through a type of rejection but is just different. Some can be not so dramatic while others are deeper and more painful.

Edited December 29, 2011 by samsungxoxo

[carhill]

How many men ask out random strangers they've never interacted with? I've done this some, mainly OLD. Yeah, those rejections don't hurt. It's virtual. I don't count those amongst real rejections. The dozens over the decades from real people I've spent time getting to know, those count.

 

How many women progress 'getting to know' to engagement or marriage ten times in their life? My exW did it three times, essentially being married three times, from 21 to 51. She now has a live-in BF, so I guess that's four, but he hasn't rejected her. She rejected, AFAIK, all three husbands (me for sure).

 

Since we're talking about dating, which is 'getting to know', as opposed to STR/LTR/M, rejections must necessarily be limited to that realm. As an example, a lady I was 'getting to know' back in 2010 over six weeks of dates rejected any further 'getting to know', with me, so she rejected me. One more to add to the dozens over the decades, after time, interest and investment of self. One data point.

[musemaj11]

It happens rarely and I don't whine about it. I move on and find someone else.

Even on this forum you can hear all the time women complaining about men wanting sex too early.

 

Who is taking care of the kids then?

Anyone. I was merely refuting the assumption that somehow women make 'a sacrifice' to care for their kids when in reality no one forces them to and in most cases they are the ones who expect to be the one staying home to care for the kids from the beginning anyway. Lets get real, if a woman goes on a date with a man and he tells her that he wants to be a stay at home dad while she will be the ones working, 95% chance he is never going to see her again.

 

So being at home and cooking, cleaning, taking care of the children, etc. is not worth anything.

Its worth the food you eat everyday, the car you drive, the clothes you wear, the occasional gifts you receive, and the house you live in.

 

Besides, cooking and cleaning are overrated. Its not like you are cooking and cleaning for a whole neighborhood. And even without being married you are still going to clean and cook for yourself anyway. The difference is only you have to put into the laundry machine a few more pieces of clothing and cook one extra portion on top of your own. All these take up no more than a couple of hours a day.

 

The only hard part about being a stay at home spouse is if you have a small child.