Left his stuff outside... and now it's gone!

[mrsgump]

Hi everyone

 

I'm having some mixed feelings right now...

 

I separated from (kicked out) my husband of three years back in July. I found out soon after our honeymoon that he'd cheated while we were engaged - which he lied about and strongly denied until he had to admit the truth.

 

I decided to give him a chance because I wanted to believe he'd made a mistake... but during the marriage he was borderline alcoholic (drank a large bottle of spirits everyday), was awful with money and when he started coming home at 10 am in the morning without being in touch with me I eventually kicked him out.

 

I was too p*ssed off to talk to him for about 2 months... but slowly we started seeing each other again (I missed him) and only after specifically asking him if he'd been with anyone else or slept with anyone and him saying no, did we start sleeping together again too...

 

That was in November. A couple of weeks ago when he stayed over, I saw a text on his phone from a girl so I took down her number. He then moved away for a new job. I asked him about her over the phone, he said she's no one... so I called her last week. She seemed to think he is her boyfriend and told me they were sleeping together. She also knew that he was married and he said that it was completely over.

 

I'd offered to look after some of his stuff when he was moving away for his job. So I sent him a text the day after I spoke to her (knowing that he'd be in town on this particular day - and that he was spending the day with her) and told him to pick up his suitcase and that I'd left it outside. He didn't respond, so I left it outside.

 

A couple of days later I spoke to his friend and asked if he could take the suitcase. The friend said no... so it stayed outside... but the next day it was gone. I hoped that the friend had taken it... but it turns out he did not!

 

So now my separated husband is totally p***ed off with me for leaving his stuff outside and that someone has taken it... on one hand I feel pretty awful that most of his belongings, coats, jackets, papers have disappeared... but on the other hand, I kind of feel like he deserves it! He doesn't seem to have any comprehension of the hurt or pain he's caused me by cheating and lying!

 

Add to that the fact that just a few days ago he'd turned up begging for my forgiveness and wanting to stay (this was before talk of the suitcase came up) when actually I know he needed a place to stay because he left his job (didn't like it) and his girlfriend is away on holiday!!! So he's quite happy to come and play on my good nature and lie when it suits him, when I know he's still in touch with her! (I can see he posted on her facebook wall - but he told me he's not in touch with her anymore)

 

On one hand I want him to suffer and I'm glad because just knowing that he upset me had no effect on him, but this material loss has annoyed him. And surely it's not unheard of that a woman who'd been cheated on (twice!) will want to chuck out her man's things.

 

On the other hand, I feel like I've done something really awful... he was really mad. He said that he's going to make me suffer some material loss too. I'm away from home now for christmas and I'm worried he might do something to my place... I know he's desperate and has been sleeping on his friend's business floor as he has no place to stay (although he told me that he is renting a place, his friend told me that's not the case. He was lying to me to make it seem like he's not desperate for somewhere to stay and 'wants' to spend time with me and work on our future).

 

He's a lying unremorseful git and I'm feeling really mixed about his suitcase... there's not much I can do... but I'm not really enjoying the satisfaction I thought this would bring!!

 

Any thoughts please? Have I done something evil??

[johan]

You were just upset about being betrayed. Maybe he is pissed, but if he had been taking care of things at home, this wouldn't have happened. It's done. It's his own fault. Try not to worry about it. Of the two of you, he is still the bigger jerk.

[mrsgump]

Thanks - feeling a little better now... but I still feel a bit nervous I'm sure it will all work out for the best i.e. towards divorce!!

 

 

Any other thoughts??

[Yasuandio]

The next time you chat with him you might consider offering your regrets for what happened to his suitcase of belongings. Afterall, it was not your desire to have them stolen, or disposed of -- you were merely making the items available outside the door.

 

I would "mean it" when you express your regret, as well. You mmight add, that you've felt terrible about it, and offer some form of compensation. In all likelihood, will turn that down, as he just needs to know you were not trying to disappear his stuff on purpose. Fair enough?

 

Retaliation may be more difficult for him if you come across trulely remorseful as I'm proposing. I know it makes us wanna gag, but the whole idea is to provide you as much peace of mind as possible about your own material items. Correct?

[stopdropandroll]

The next time you chat with him you might consider offering your regrets for what happened to his suitcase of belongings. Afterall, it was not your desire to have them stolen, or disposed of -- you were merely making the items available outside the door.

 

I would "mean it" when you express your regret, as well. You mmight add, that you've felt terrible about it, and offer some form of compensation. In all likelihood, will turn that down, as he just needs to know you were not trying to disappear his stuff on purpose. Fair enough?

 

Retaliation may be more difficult for him if you come across trulely remorseful as I'm proposing. I know it makes us wanna gag, but the whole idea is to provide you as much peace of mind as possible about your own material items. Correct?

By the sounds of it the OP is truly upsetabout his stuff being stolen. No act required in making a genuine apology forit. Her husband might be a dirt bag but she can still make amends for heractions. If he still wants to threaten retaliation she might want to file a police report about his threats

[SincereOnlineGuy]

You are entirely off the hook on this one if you TOLD him his stuff would be left outside, AND if it was there for (what sounds like) DAYS before it vanished.

 

Simply do not look back with even a twinge of guilt in this case.

[mrsgump]

Hi guys

 

Thanks for your input

 

I did call yesterday to apologise. I did feel pretty bad - he opened up and told me he has been staying on his friend's business floor without a blanket and has no money so has hardly had anything to eat. And on top of that finding out he had lost his suitcase - he doesn't have much stuff and having had to move for his job he kept everything minimal and only took a bag full of things with him. He was understandably very upset with me and it was a pretty sh*t way to spend christmas.

 

So yes, I did feel bad for him.

 

However, when I tried to wrap up the conversation and said that I left his stuff out because I was upset when I discovered that he'd lied to me and betrayed me again... his response was 'but we were separated' and he got annoyed again.

 

So ultimately, he's not sorry for anything he's done to me... and that did make me feel better!

 

I'll try not to feel guilty about it - yes I did let him know his stuff was outside, and I did ask his friend to take it too. I know my ex was in town that day with his girlfriend (his friend has confirmed this to me - unfortunately I mentioned that to my ex who is now pissed off with the friend) and NOT at work like he has been trying to tell me.

 

Part of me wants to be nice and help him out - but I know I should steer clear. He's happy to use me and lie to me. I might miss him but I'm definitely better off without him, and I should let him get on with 'moving on' in his life - and he's clearly messing everything up!!

 

I hope the only reason I'll be in touch with him again is to sort out those divorce papers, which I have to pay for, as he has no money - and he also owes my mum and my friend money. I will see his lost property as reparations towards this!

 

Good riddance to bad rubbish!!

[darkmoon]

so, you're a left-luggage office?

[Forever Learning]

I am so proud of you for getting out of this relationship! You did so much better than I - you ended it after 3 years of alcoholic nonsense. It took me 16 years. Well done for you! Don't ever go back to him, and don't ever get involved with another alcoholic/drug addict. Life is so much simpler without them.

 

Seek out a free women's support group to help you learn from this and so you will have support so as to never get involved with him again.

 

For safety's sake change the locks, increase your home's security ( burglar bars are helpful, a physical barrier, along with a monitored security alarm and a gun if your area allows or baseball bat, have something for protection) and absolutely go no contact with him as much as possible, to eventual complete no contact.

 

'No Contact' with him will help protect you in the long run, because it will speed the process of him leaving you alone, and moving on to his next victim/target, terrible as that sounds, but this is how they live their lives. They are predators. You must stick to the no contact, as his trying to contact you will likely continue for several years, if not decades. But it will lessen if he continually hits a wall of silence. If you give him even a little communication, you will exponentially increase his efforts to continue to contact you and/or stalk you. Been there, done that - just take my word on this.

 

God bless and all the best to you!

Edited December 26, 2011 by Forever Learning

[Deanster]

 

I'd offered to look after some of his stuff when he was moving away for his job.

 

I'm amazed at some of the responses here. Yes, the guy's a jerk. Yes, you're well rid of him. Yes, you're right to be mad.

 

Putting his belongings you agreed to look after on the porch in a suitcase and texting him to say 'they're outside - come get 'em', is just crappy, IMHO, regardless of the provocation.

 

There absolutely ARE circumstances where your own self-protection, needs, pain, his behavior, or urgent situations might justify a radical action, but IMHO, there's no way that one suitcase worth of stuff you'd been keeping for many months could have been so urgent a matter that your life couldn't continue another week with it in the house. It'd be different if he'd left them behind, or if you'd been trying to get him to take it away for many months, I guess, though even then I'd say that substantial notice and a LOT of attempts to get him to pick it up would be required before giving it away.

 

It was an attempt on your part to punish and hurt him, and his belongings were the only lever you had at that moment. If all he has/had in the world can fit in a suitcase, it's a major and un-retreivable loss - even more, if he's in as bad financial shape as you say, you probably just cost him a huge percentage of his net worth.

 

Justifying it by saying you sent one text on a day you 'knew' he was in town is ridiculous. The stuff was at risk from the second you put it out, and even you admit your only goal was his pain.

 

I'm not supporting/justifying/enabling him or his actions in any way. He's maybe even a 'bad person'. He's maybe done much worse to you. You're ENTIRELY justified in being angry, and wanting to end your relationship with him, and get him out of your life. But that doesn't release you from basic responsibilities, at least in my book. If he were to sue you for the value of the items, or insist on that value being part of your divorce, no court in the country would take your side.

 

I'm just saying that when you offered to watch his stuff, you agreed to keep it safe, and you did the precise opposite by choice, with forethought and malice. If you were no longer willing to keep the items, that's your choice, of course. But you didn't even come CLOSE to an ethical and decent approach to end your obligation and put the items back in his hands. You'd have been better off throwing them at him, from an ethical point of view.

 

Long story short - you're on the hook for putting his stuff out where it was stolen, even if he's a total dirtbag.

[mrsgump]

Forever learning, thank you for your kind words and advice. Safety is an issue I should consider and I do feel a little unsafe. Sorry you went through that for 16 years, part of me is so relieved that this happened after 3 years of marriage (4.5 years of being with him in total) and finally put to peace that niggling feeling at the back of my mind that I can't trust him and that I should leave. It's a tough choice to make when there are no clear-cut bottom lines.

 

Deanster - you vocalise my feelings for when I feel bad about the suitcase... the voice that I'm trying to appease! I could have thrown it away... I could have not told him at all... I did ask him and his friend to take it... I would be p*ssed if I were in his shoes.

 

I believe his current new gf is his next target. Her family has a lot of money by the sounds of it, and he has apparently asked her to be his fiancee on facebook. How sweet and romantic (!) nevermind the fact that he is still married!

 

Part of me honestly feels bad about the suitcase - but on the plus side, it's stopped his nonsense talk of trying again and moving in with me, and now he's all for the divorce. I've been way too nice to him in the past...

 

Forever learning, I know you're right about the no-contact rule. I'll have to change my mindset on this as I hoped we could stay friends, but I think that was me being reluctant to acknowledge the end of our relationship. I *know* it's over - I have to start picturing my life without him... and I also have to stop keeping track of what he's getting up to with the gf. Not my business anymore.

 

Thanks everyone, I appreciate it!

[Forever Learning]

You're welcome! I am grateful anything I have said is helpful to you. It is from the heart.

 

Don't worry another minute about the suitcase. The suitcase is old news, it's done, it's over, forget it. Truly. Don't listen to any other poster trying to guilt trip you about this freaking suitcase. They haven't lived this situation with a manipulator. They don't have a clue.

 

And watch out for your ex trying to guilt trip you about the suitcase (or any other thing he can think of) in the future. That will be his "Ace in the hole" to manipulate you via guilt. That's why no contact is helpful, he can't manipulate your brain in the future with guilt if you don't talk to him at all (guilt tripping will be his # 1 tactic on manipulating you, and # 2 will be fear - trying to scare you with hostility and/or aggression). This is how manipulating men operate on women typically.

 

You are so lucky he as a girlfriend lined up. It will help take the heat off you while you get your life back in order and move on. It won't work out in the long run with the new girl, by the way. When she dumps him he'll come flying back to you, if he thinks he can, with the "feel sorry for me" routine. No contact will protect you in this future scenario too.

 

A support group of friends is very important in these situations, particularly others who have experienced living situations with alcoholics/drug addicts/ manipulators. Get a support system going so you won't be lonely and inclined to allow him back into your life, even as a 'friend'. That's how it starts all over again, unfortunately.

 

In the future, you will want to look for very important qualities in a man such as honest, integrity, responsibility, and kindness. Sometimes people FAKE these qualities, that's why it takes time to get to know someone, and actions speak louder than words.

 

You might want to put on your 'list', for your next man you become involved with - it would benefit you if he is a non-drinker/ non-drug user also (occasional social drinker is ok, so long as it TRULY is OCCASIONAL social drinking). Keep reading all you can around here, to broaden your horizons and learn all you can. All the best to you, you can do this!

Edited December 27, 2011 by Forever Learning

[SincereOnlineGuy]

there's no way that one suitcase worth of stuff you'd been keeping for many months could have been so urgent a matter that your life couldn't continue another week with it in the house.

 

 

Conversely, there is "no way that one suitcase worth of stuff (she'd) been keeping for many months could have been so (cumbersome) that" he couldn't have taken it with him.

 

Er, maybe the handle was broken... and of course it didn't have wheels, as do the ones at the airport.

[trippi1432]

Umm....don't forget, the wheels might be broken too...airlines do that these days. I had to buy a whole new luggage set because of it....but guess he could have stopped by, picked it up and walked it out.

 

Had the items in the suitcase been worth anything of value, he would have taken it with him. My first ex left behind a TV and band t-shirts with a note on the table...the TV got sold to buy his daughter diapers and I burned the t-shirts in my mother's burn barrel. Three months later, he wanted to come back because he got another girl pregnant and was "on the run" (one that had been a "problem" off and on for a couple of years)....listen to Forever Learning and spare yourself the guilt trip. Twenty years later, my first ex still tests the waters from time to time...not because he loves me, but because he isn't happy with his choices. You will get wise and recognize this over time...that's when you will recognize men who have integrity and honesty and those who don't...typically those are looking for a soft place to fall.

[mrsgump]

Hi

 

So I called my ex today to discuss the divorce papers, he's happy for me to send them (I will pay) and I will explain the process to him properly afterwards in person.

 

We ended discussing all the hardships he's been having - he's been sleeping on the cafe sofa with no blanket, barely eaten as he had no money (but managed to get some from his friend today) and hasn't had a shower for a week!! He did hint at coming over for a shower one day and I didn't offer. He also asked if he could come over tonight and I said no...

 

So this is my husband, who has done a lot of stupid things like cheated, drank a lot, lied and cheated again... who is in a really sh*t place and practically homeless... do I not offer to help him a bit? Not financially, but let him shower? Or stay on the sofa a few nights?

 

Or do I really cut off all contact except for divorce-related communication?

 

I feel torn! It's not my place to help him out anymore as we've been separated since July and he's pissed me off since as well... and he's only in this stupid situation because he quit his last job to take a one-month job which he quit before it was over!

 

There was a tinge of guilt-tripping there - he kept saying that after all he's suffered he'd never leave someone out on the streets... this is the first time he's really had to suffer the consequences of his actions because I always used to bail him out before.

 

Do I be nice or leave him be?

[johan]

That's a tough situation to be in. I guess the question you have to be able to answer for yourself is do you know your boundaries? If you don't know what they are or if you have trouble enforcing them with him, then letting him come back could mean getting entangled in ways you don't want.

 

He may be suffering, but he's not helpless. He has to stand up and be a man. Also you mentioned some girlfriend of his. I guess she isn't in a position to help out, or he would be there.

 

I think it's good that he's not pressuring you for favors.

[mrsgump]

I think one of my biggest problems with him has been lack of boundaries. That's why I stayed much longer than I should have and that's why he 'knows' he can try his luck with me because I have a nice and understanding nature. Me kicking him out was probably the shock of his life as he's so used to being able to do whatever he wants, and even if I moaned and cried a lot I never *did* anything about it.

 

I know through my thorough detective skills that she is on holiday, and he hasn't mentioned anything about his hardships to her. He's tried to make out that they're not together anymore, but I know they are. Part of me would love for him to come over and so I can get some evidence against him - thus bursting her bubble and his! She had a bit of an attitude problem when I spoke to her on the phone (when I discovered they are an item - after I started sleeping with him again), considering she knew he is my husband, but she is young and naive (as I was when I met him) so maybe I should just let nature run its course and she will learn the hard way! God knows what he's said about me, she probably believes that I'm the evil one. Although I certainly wish I knew what he was really like before I got too caught up in him.

 

Turns out my wedding ring was in the suitcase. He took it back when we separated. On the plus side it wasn't very expensive, but I was hoping to have it back one day for sentimental value. He's upset because of its value.

 

There was also another ring that he'd found on the street and given to me, and it turned out to be a real diamond ring! I was really pleased as he'd never given me any diamonds before, not even for our engagement... even if this ring was from the street! And I was quite upset when he demanded it back as he had given it to me... but the fact that the ring found in the street is now 'lost' is fine by me... I guess it was meant to keep moving on!

[trippi1432]

Ms. Gump...then take that and move on from this loser..you see, when you set up a person to appear to be the loser...you become the loser. Why? Because if you have an ounce of compassion, the ring, the suitcase...those things become nothing...they just become things to hold over someone's head of the fact they should have loved you as you deserved to be loved.

 

Fact is..you are justifying the contents and not defining your boundaries as Johan has stated. He wants your pity...can I ask you...what pity..or yet...what respect... did he give you when he replaced you? It's not about revenge...a suitcase he should have claimed the moment you told him it was on the porch...at some point, the person who has asked to be let go needs to be let go of...from that point, their life becomes THEIR responsibility...not yours.

 

Stop defining him in disrespect to yourself...love you for who you are. Just seems to me that you may be gathering evidence for an alienation of affection lawsuit or to make yourself look better in the courts eyes...in most courts...they don't really care who cheated who..it won't get you much....other than feeling like a doormat.

 

In my state..the last alienation of affection lawsuit resulted in a woman shooting her kids in the head....as well as the girlfriend of one of the kids, shooting the man she paid off the sum of $10k to for the lawsuit his wife initiated, although he had a 3 year affair with her..HE lived..SOB...and she was found dead with a gunshot wound to her own head with her 13 year old dying in the backseat from a head wound..her 3 year old grandchild died 3 days later from a gunshot wound to the head that her own grandmother inflicted..so says the death records...her entire lineage due to an obsession with a lying man...a betrayer..to his wife as well as the women he lives on and continues to lie to.

 

It's strange how many of us in our state can wonder what lies a man can tell a wife to feel sorry for himself..this guy was sleeping in a garage off the side off the side of the house for months....no games..no one-up-manupship..done is done..do you have boundaries or do you want to play a game?

 

Let go of revenge and start living free of it....as much as you would love put him in his place with what you know..be the bigger person and move on to better things.

[mrsgump]

Yeah, I know it's time to let go.

 

It makes no sense to me, logically it makes no sense for me to want to be in touch with him. He is a loser and he's been horrible to me. Why am I still drawn to him? Why am I even tempted to help him?

 

I think this is just part of me not wanting to acknowledge that this is the end of our relationship... and wanting to hold on. But I know it has to end properly...

 

I think submitting the divorce papers will really help with some closure.