Are my expectations too high?

[ThinkBelieve]

Right or wrong, I have told him that I hold myself 100% accountable. Not in the distancing -- that was both of us -- but in not bringing it up sooner. I accept the gender differences and know men don't like to talk about things let alone be the one to bring them up. While neither one of us should have let our problems go as long as they have, I should have brought them up sooner.

 

Now I feel like what this board calls a "walk-away wife," except I don't want to walk away without feeling like I tried as much as possible. But it's hard to be so far gone as to be at that point, and then be the only one trying to save the marriage. (He says he wants to save it, but so far his actions don't match his words.)

 

 

 

We have been discussing our problems for several months now. Not often -- only when I bring it up -- but at least we have been talking. I asked for MC. He thinks all counselors are quacks, but said he would go if I really thought it would work. I'm not sure how well it would work if he doesn't even believe that counseling is real.

 

He knows things are serious, although so far he has been the only one to ask for divorce. (And then take it back.)

 

 

 

I have asked my husband to see a doctor, because I do suspect a medical problem, but he refuses. He refuses to see doctors for pretty much anything, so that was not surprise to me.

 

I don't watch a lot of TV, and the sports and TV shows that I do watch are ones that he watches also. He just prefers to watch them alone. He will watch some with me, but sits in a separate chair. If I ask him to, he will sit with me, but usually gets up and moves back to the chair in 10 minutes or so.

 

Maybealone, I am sorry to hear of your situation. I really hope things improve for you. It sounds like you are doing what you can to work on your marriage. If I may ask, is your husband afraid of all doctors (...or only doctors that examine his "manly parts")? Perhaps you could accompany him to his visit, if you think that would help him be more comfortable...just a suggestion.

 

Also, regarding MC, you mentioned he wouldn't initially go. Perhaps you both could go to MC, he could come as an observer, and contribute to the discussion, if he is comfortable?

 

Thirdly, regarding your husband's job, do you think he could find employment that resulted in less traveling and more time together?

 

I'm sorry to hear that you may have to consider being a "walk-away wife". I do think that anyone could get to that point....I don't think it makes anyone a bad person. I'm glad to hear you have a good job you can fall back on in the event you have to proceed with a divorce. Personally, I had an awesome job for fifteen years (which my husband didn't like), then a job I didn't like; and now, that has positively progressed into leading me to another awesome job where a divorce would be accepted (my first job had strong religious connections)....So, I can see the importance of getting all your ducks in a row. Also, a big concern, for me, is that I don't have alot experience dating, since even before I got married. So, the thought of "dating around" literally scares the krap out of me.

 

Regarding your TV watching together, I'm glad to hear you both have the same interests. Perhaps you could invest in a reclining side-by-side chair for two?

Edited January 16, 2012 by ThinkBelieve

[Els]

In order to make a marriage work, you both have to work on the emotional closeness, which I know is difficult if he travels a lot on business. But there is a lot you can do. Sometimes women do need to be the major instigator/planner for initiating closeness, because they tend to be better at it than men. You make the calls, and find out how his day is going, and let him know how much you miss him, and what is waiting for him when he gets home. If he goes to another room to watch T.V., you make it a point to visit there and snuggle during that time. If he goes to bed earlier than you, you need to make a point to be with him before he falls asleep to give him a massage, to talk, to have some snuggle time, etc., even if you will be getting up afterwards to do some things before bedtime. You make the plans for date night. Women are better at being the social planners and initiating closeness. It's ingrained in our psyche. Men are not as good at it, generally. I think if you make a major effort to initiate closeness with him, it will pay off for you, and he will be happier as well. And I would suggest marriage counseling. Don't turn off your emotional closeness with him because you feel he is doing that. This is the time you need to step up your efforts to maintain closeness.

 

I think this is good advice - but with caution. If he goes to the TV and you go and snuggle up with him all the time without him ever needing to go to you, or choose a program that you both like, or do anything at all... no, that will just make him more lackadaisical and not solve anything. On the other hand, you should certainly initiate the 'emotional-closeness' project by putting in some extra effort to start the ball rolling. Then give him some room to reciprocate. Be aware that different people have different ways of achieving emotional closeness - the whole 5 love languages thing.

[maybealone]

Maybealone, I am sorry to hear of your situation. I really hope things improve for you. It sounds like you are doing what you can to work on your marriage. If I may ask, is your husband afraid of all doctors (...or only doctors that examine his "manly parts")? Perhaps you could accompany him to his visit, if you think that would help him be more comfortable...just a suggestion.

 

Also, regarding MC, you mentioned he wouldn't initially go. Perhaps you both could go to MC, he could come as an observer, and contribute to the discussion, if he is comfortable?

 

Thirdly, regarding your husband's job, do you think he could find employment that resulted in less traveling and more time together?

 

It's all doctors for my husband. He has high blood pressure but won't get treatment for that either. Which might be okay if he attempted to have a healthier lifestyle to reduce it naturally, but he won't do that either.

 

As for MC, I'm not sure how well it would work when he thinks all counselors are quacks. I have concerns about myself, too. He is very good at making things all my fault, and I'm afraid that MC would turn into all the things I am doing wrong. I tend to lose my backbone around him too, and end up accepting blame for things that I know (and close family members know) are not my fault.

 

As for job, he absolutely loves this job. I would hate to have him give it up when I'm not sure the relationship will work. And he is not one to settle -- having no money for food was never enough reason to take a job that he felt was beneath him -- so I am concerned that if he takes a job he is not completely happy with, he will quit and I will have to support him. Again.

[maybealone]

I think this is good advice - but with caution. If he goes to the TV and you go and snuggle up with him all the time without him ever needing to go to you, or choose a program that you both like, or do anything at all... no, that will just make him more lackadaisical and not solve anything. On the other hand, you should certainly initiate the 'emotional-closeness' project by putting in some extra effort to start the ball rolling. Then give him some room to reciprocate. Be aware that different people have different ways of achieving emotional closeness - the whole 5 love languages thing.

 

Right now what happens is I try to snuggle with him and he tells me his shoulders hurt. I try to get him to come to bed with me for a few minutes (he stays up later) and he tells me about what he's missing on TV. Him being lackadaisical would be a huge improvement.

 

I am reading about the 5 love languages. That seems like that could help me better understand him. And myself, though I had to take the quiz as a single person. It was too depressing to take the "for wives" quiz and be reminded about all the things I don't hear/see/feel.

[Els]

Right now what happens is I try to snuggle with him and he tells me his shoulders hurt. I try to get him to come to bed with me for a few minutes (he stays up later) and he tells me about what he's missing on TV. Him being lackadaisical would be a huge improvement.

 

I am reading about the 5 love languages. That seems like that could help me better understand him. And myself, though I had to take the quiz as a single person. It was too depressing to take the "for wives" quiz and be reminded about all the things I don't hear/see/feel.

 

That is just really... weird. The bolded.. does it happen ALL the time? Or only on a few occasions? Do the two of you perform any sort of intimate stuff at all? Sex, holding hands while out, hugging, quiet talks, anything?

[carhill]

Call it done. Your expectations are reasonable, IMO. As a man, your latest post rings true with me. He's disconnected. That doesn't mean he won't stay in it for convenience and 'think it', but his elemental soul is not in the M. Since you apparently don't love him at this stage and given the totality of what you've shared, it's likely irreconcilable.

 

Like an LS'er once told me, 'your wife just didn't want to be married to you anymore'. I saw the same signs as you're seeing here, except we both gave MC an honest shot. We're divorced now and appear to both be happier as a result. Life is short. Make it count.

[PinkInTheLimo]

Right now what happens is I try to snuggle with him and he tells me his shoulders hurt. I try to get him to come to bed with me for a few minutes (he stays up later) and he tells me about what he's missing on TV. Him being lackadaisical would be a huge improvement.

 

I am reading about the 5 love languages. That seems like that could help me better understand him. And myself, though I had to take the quiz as a single person. It was too depressing to take the "for wives" quiz and be reminded about all the things I don't hear/see/feel.

 

STOP trying things. He does not want to be with you. He just does not have the balls to ask you for a divorce, even that you have to do yourself. Your husband is passive-agressive. He just can't tell you that he does not want to be with you. There are many men like that who for some reason can't speak their mind when they want to end a relationship. It's horrible but no woman can change them.

 

All you can do is to get out of this situation, ASAP. Go and see a lawyer so that you know what to do to defend your assets.

 

You are only hurting yourself by reading books and trying things. It takes two to tango and he does not want to tango with you.

 

I am sorry that you are in this situation but staying in it and trying to change him will NOT work. Face the facts, life is too short to be miserable.

[bunny05]

STOP trying things. He does not want to be with you. He just does not have the balls to ask you for a divorce, even that you have to do yourself. Your husband is passive-agressive. He just can't tell you that he does not want to be with you. There are many men like that who for some reason can't speak their mind when they want to end a relationship. It's horrible but no woman can change them.

 

All you can do is to get out of this situation, ASAP. Go and see a lawyer so that you know what to do to defend your assets.

 

You are only hurting yourself by reading books and trying things. It takes two to tango and he does not want to tango with you.

 

I am sorry that you are in this situation but staying in it and trying to change him will NOT work. Face the facts, life is too short to be miserable.

 

Maybealone,

 

Your situation unfortunately reminds me of my situation with my ex-husband. He rejected my sexual advances all the time (he was watching porn while I was sleeping, which fed his sex drive). He would spend more time with his computer instead of me, and I would sit next to him and crochet to try and spend time with him, but he wouldn't ever acknowledge my effort. He would ignore my every request for intimacy, compassion and even a simple "Good morning" when we woke up every day.

 

He also did not push for a divorce, merely talked about it. PinkInTheLimo is correct that your husband is passive-aggressive and is content to sit on his butt doing nothing while you put all your efforts into trying to fix what he isn't interested in fixing.

 

I spelled it out for my husband, telling him what I needed to feel happy. I made my actions reflect my words. I said that I wanted to stay married and be in love again, and I bent over backwards like a damn fool doing sweet things for him, working hard every day and trying my best. He just sat there.

 

The only thing that made him react was when I stopped caring about him, and it showed. He reacted with anger, scared me a bit, and I was out the door that very week. (The whole mess had gone on for a year before I fell out of love.) I haven't spoken to him since, and couldn't be happier. Just make sure that you're not playing the fool like I did, and if you are, then get out.

[bunny05]

Also, I asked myself the same question "Are my expectations too high?"

 

No. They aren't. If you feel like he's not treating you how he would like to be treated, then no. You deserve respect and to be honored, above all from the man who chose to marry you.

[maybealone]

Thanks for all the help, everyone. Some of it was hard to read, but necessary.

 

He's disconnected. That doesn't mean he won't stay in it for convenience and 'think it', but his elemental soul is not in the M.

 

That makes sense. It feels like he is disconnected. I know this marriage is convenient for him, and I know he loves being able to tell people that he is married, but that isn't enough for me.

 

STOP trying things. He does not want to be with you. He just does not have the balls to ask you for a divorce, even that you have to do yourself.

 

It's funny you should say that, because the two people in my life (besides people on this forum) that know what's going on -- my mom and my best friend -- say the same thing.

 

The only thing that made him react was when I stopped caring about him, and it showed.

 

The only thing that makes him angry is that I stop using "pet" names with him. It just felt so fake, I eventually stopped using those names. He's even told me that in order for him to work on things, I need to start using those names again. But really, with all the problems we have, that seems like an odd thing to obsess about.

 

Thanks again for all the help. I am talking to a few attorneys to see which one is the best fit, then it looks like I will be moving forward. It hurts like hell, but for the first time, it feels like the right thing to do.

[Shane Jimison]

Sometimes people have high expectation with their marriages and if they don't find anything similar to this then they take step of divorce as last option which is not Wright. In marriages people need to make some compromise this is the only way to live happy life.

[DashedToBits]

maybealone, your husband sounds a lot like mine. He often tells me my expectations are too high, but then I stand there scratching my head and thinking, "It's too much to ask you to say hello to me when you come home from work?" WTF?

[maybealone]

Sometimes people have high expectation with their marriages and if they don't find anything similar to this then they take step of divorce as last option which is not Wright. In marriages people need to make some compromise this is the only way to live happy life.

 

I typically am very willing to compromise and sacrifice. In my opinion (which, of course, is one-sided, I know) I do a lot more of it than he does. I just had trouble believing that wanting him to come home for Christmas and wanting him to put in the tiniest bit of effort into fixing our relationship problems was too high of an expectation.

 

maybealone, your husband sounds a lot like mine. He often tells me my expectations are too high, but then I stand there scratching my head and thinking, "It's too much to ask you to say hello to me when you come home from work?" WTF?

 

No, that's not too much to ask! And at least my husband will say hello to me when I come home. But one of my sticking points is that he has absolutely no interest in my life. I can see not being interested in my work, but he's not even interested in my social life. When he's not home (he travels a lot for work), I can come home at 10 p.m., call him, and tell him that I was out for dinner and drinks with friends -- and he won't even ask where I went or who I was with. I have different friends, so it's not like he can just assume who I was with. I find it hard to believe that's normal.

[DashedToBits]

Mine has no interest in my life either. He doesn;t make any attempt to connect or communicate with the people who are a huge part of my life...in fact, he ignores them and makes them feel bad. Last year my kids and I went on a trip across the country to see my best friend, and he never once asked me how my friend was or what I did on my trip, etc. When i got home, I tried to get him to sit down and look at pictures, and it was always "later", and he never did. I want someone who gives a crap about what I'm doing!

[2sunny]

Since it feels like you are alone - it won't be a big adjustment to be on your own.

 

In fact, it may be a relief NOT to spend every day being disappointed by him not participating in your life.

 

Understanding that he's not really there when he is physically present is just his illusion.

 

Start separating your money and begin to plan your life on your own.

 

You deserve to be happy - you CAN get it if you let go of this M that really doesn't have any substance of love involved.

 

Open your heart to the possibilities that love can be in your life!

[maybealone]

Thanks for all the help everyone.

 

I am making some progress on my own. I had an informational meeting with an attorney and learned most of what I needed to know. I set up a savings account and have almost as much in it as the attorney advised.

 

Figuring out how to tell him will be the hard part. He is very good at playing the victim and it will be difficult to deal with his emotions, even if they might be fake. But he's taking a lot of time off over the next few months for different things he is doing with his friends -- not with me.

 

And as I've said all along, I'd rather be alone because I am alone than be alone and be married. Somehow being alone and married just feels sadder.

[Els]

All the best, OP. You're a strong woman. :heart:

[Eddie Edirol]

Thanks for all the help everyone.

 

I am making some progress on my own. I had an informational meeting with an attorney and learned most of what I needed to know. I set up a savings account and have almost as much in it as the attorney advised.

 

Figuring out how to tell him will be the hard part. He is very good at playing the victim and it will be difficult to deal with his emotions, even if they might be fake. But he's taking a lot of time off over the next few months for different things he is doing with his friends -- not with me.

 

And as I've said all along, I'd rather be alone because I am alone than be alone and be married. Somehow being alone and married just feels sadder.

 

Maybe I think you dont need to tippy toe when you tell him. I think he was sitting on his ass about initiating the divorce, because he doesnt want to deal with you crying and trying harder to make it work. That is hard to deal with. I've been there trying to avoid a breakup talk while someone is trying to make things work when I knew I was eventually ending it. So you can do it, in a dry tone. He might be surprised, he might want to make it work since he wont see this coming. He may have been procrastinating because he doesnt want to pay alimony, or split up the house, etc.

You know him well, so if he wants to try to make it work after you announce this, you have to decide whether or not he changed his attitude towards you.

[maybealone]

All the best, OP. You're a strong woman. :heart:

 

Thank you!

 

He might be surprised, he might want to make it work since he wont see this coming. He may have been procrastinating because he doesnt want to pay alimony, or split up the house, etc.

 

No, I think in some ways he will see it coming. We have been discussing our problems for almost a year now. And he's already said I could have the house. But alimony might be an issue. I never even knew it was an option until I talked to the attorney. Turns out he would likely be required to pay enough to equalize our salaries for half the length of the marriage.

 

I don't want alimony. Even though I completely supported him for many years, I like to pay my own way. But I would not be against coming up with a deal where I get the house and in return he doesn't have to pay any alimony.