Inexperienced males vs females with too much experience

[Jane2011]

I'm becoming one of those women with lots of experience. Since May 2010, (roughly the past year and a half), I've had five sex partners. My total # of sex partners is 11.

 

About 24-25 year old virgins. I think that's kind of late, but I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with the person. I just think they've waited. If they're still a virgin past 25, though, that's kind of weird to me.

 

I lost my virginity when I was 20 (five months shy of being 21), which I think is a perfect age. Not too young, not too old.

[Emilia]

You know I wonder how much of that is the result of all that sexual harassment/sex ed garbage they taught us in school. All that be courteous and don't pressure her into sex nonsense. I mean yeah in theory it's a great idea not to pressure someone into sex, but the guys who are sexually aggressive (not assertive but aggressive in a negative way) weren't dissuaded by that stuff, and the already passive guys/borderline passive guys were just made even more passive by it. So it just ensured that the bad guys were even more emboldened by getting rid of some of their competition and the passive dudes never really figured out what they needed to.

 

It's not about pressuring someone into sex and certainly isn't about being aggressive that way. It's showing a girl small signs that you have testosterone. Even when I dated less experienced and much younger men (like 21 years old) they had ways of expressing their desire and what they wanted. I do encourage it and I don't start complaining like other girls do but they get cheeky and naughty regardless, talk dirty - and most importantly ever: don't settle for friendship when they want sex.

[ThaWholigan]

Well, I have none of the mentioned signs and symptoms in this diagnosis (even the mood to sex). But maybe I am an atypical and asymptomatic disease carrier.

 

These are signs that are more prominent in male virgins. I think a socially awkward female virgin will have the same amount of trouble, but will probably have more willing suitors than a male virgin with these ailments. It's a complete turn off to women, and very difficult to turn these around, primarily why I think it is not alarming that women find it to be a turn off (that much is reality, no use complaining about that one), but I find it alarming that the level of disdain that is shown to these men seems to increase.

[Emilia]

Well, I have none of the mentioned signs and symptoms in this diagnosis (even the mood to sex). But maybe I am an atypical and asymptomatic disease carrier.

 

I've no idea what female virgins are like, always imagined they would be quite reserved I suppose, hard to approach. A bit shy in a dating context, but I've never experienced it so I don't know.

[fortyninethousand322]

It's not about pressuring someone into sex and certainly isn't about being aggressive that way. It's showing a girl small signs that you have testosterone. Even when I dated less experienced and much younger men (like 21 years old) they had ways of expressing their desire and what they wanted. I do encourage it and I don't start complaining like other girls do but they get cheeky and naughty regardless, talk dirty - and most importantly ever: don't settle for friendship when they want sex.

 

I'm not saying that guys should be aggressive. I'm saying that the aggressive, borderline rapist-like men who were the problem that inspired the whole rape/sexual harassment awareness stuff never really changed their ways because someone tried to educate them about being respectful to women, they just kept doing what they wanted regardless. On the flip side, the already passive guys paid attention and just got even more passive.

[ThaWholigan]

It's not about pressuring someone into sex and certainly isn't about being aggressive that way. It's showing a girl small signs that you have testosterone. Even when I dated less experienced and much younger men (like 21 years old) they had ways of expressing their desire and what they wanted. I do encourage it and I don't start complaining like other girls do but they get cheeky and naughty regardless, talk dirty - and most importantly ever: don't settle for friendship when they want sex.

 

Excellent post. There are ways of expressing your sexuality and your desire that are extremely attractive to women, and also can be learned.

 

This is where a lack of confidence in your ability can be such a hindrance, and cause you to experience the one thing you fear: rejection.

[samsungxoxo]

I lost my virginity when I was 20 (five months shy of being 21), which I think is a perfect age. Not too young, not too old.

Guess I was a year too young. I lost it when I was 19 (3 months shy from turning 20).

[Emilia]

I'm not saying that guys should be aggressive. I'm saying that the aggressive, borderline rapist-like men who were the problem that inspired the whole rape/sexual harassment awareness stuff never really changed their ways because someone tried to educate them about being respectful to women, they just kept doing what they wanted regardless. On the flip side, the already passive guys paid attention and just got even more passive.

 

I don't know about that. Both overtly aggressive or overtly passive are in a minority. Most men are in between somewhere.

[Jane2011]

Guess I was a year too young. I lost it when I was 19 (3 months shy from turning 20).

 

19's good, too, actually. Objectively speaking, I think anywhere between 18 and 22 is reasonable.

 

I know people find 16 and 17 year olds having sex acceptable (and it's kind of the norm nowadays), but I think it's a little too soon for it.

[ThaWholigan]

I'm not saying that guys should be aggressive. I'm saying that the aggressive, borderline rapist-like men who were the problem that inspired the whole rape/sexual harassment awareness stuff never really changed their ways because someone tried to educate them about being respectful to women, they just kept doing what they wanted regardless. On the flip side, the already passive guys paid attention and just got even more passive.

 

I had none of that education. I knew women/girls who had been raped/assaulted, that was enough.

 

I don't think this is the issue, I think Emilia was bang on the money. Some kind of aggression must be there, but not an overt one, more assertiveness. Being able to assert yourself sexually without being pushy is a valuable skill. Hard to learn if you don't already possess it.

[Emilia]

Excellent post. There are ways of expressing your sexuality and your desire that are extremely attractive to women, and also can be learned.

 

This is where a lack of confidence in your ability can be such a hindrance, and cause you to experience the one thing you fear: rejection.

 

They test women's boundaries. See how far they can get. The try what they can get away with - and of course they get slapped down a lot especially when they are younger (personally I find them amusing usually but then I like men, despite what this thread suggests).

[fortyninethousand322]

I don't know about that. Both overtly aggressive or overtly passive are in a minority. Most men are in between somewhere.

 

That's my whole point. Since most men have a healthy sense of what's a healthy expression of sexuality and the more aggressive men won't change anyway, why even bother to teach people about "no means no" and don't pressure women into sex? The healthy men won't do that anyway, the passive types will just become more passive and the aggressive men won't change (they're a lost cause, you can't educate a bad person into becoming a good person). I say just scrap the whole thing and let parents teach their kids about that stuff.

[Emilia]

I say just scrap the whole thing and let parents teach their kids about that stuff.

 

Well I would view this as the father's job. I think men who were raised by their mums are probably at a disadvantage. Most women wouldn't encourage their sons to learn healthy ways to be assertive - which I happen to disagree with.

[silvermercy]

19's good, too, actually. Objectively speaking, I think anywhere between 18 and 22 is reasonable.

 

I know people find 16 and 17 year olds having sex acceptable (and it's kind of the norm nowadays), but I think it's a little too soon for it.

How about 22.5?

[fortyninethousand322]

I had none of that education. I knew women/girls who had been raped/assaulted, that was enough.

 

I don't think this is the issue, I think Emilia was bang on the money. Some kind of aggression must be there, but not an overt one, more assertiveness. Being able to assert yourself sexually without being pushy is a valuable skill. Hard to learn if you don't already possess it.

 

This is what I've been saying the whole time: the men who rape women and/or abuse or take advantage of them aren't going to stop behaving that way because some sex ed teacher in high school told them it's bad. Assertive and healthy men will know pretty instinctively (or from parents and family members) about what's right and wrong in terms of treating a woman. The passive men (who probably have passive father figures as well) will mistakenly apply those lessons to themselves and just become more passive than they already were. So basically there's no need to make these sorts of things part of any sex ed curriculum since it does nothing positive for anyone.

[ThaWholigan]

They test women's boundaries. See how far they can get. The try what they can get away with - and of course they get slapped down a lot especially when they are younger (personally I find them amusing usually but then I like men, despite what this thread suggests).

 

And of course, if one is very sensitive and lacks self-esteem, one avoids getting slapped down like the plague, and thus never test boundaries or find healthy expressions of their sexuality outside of pornography and masturbation.

 

Most women actually find it amusing as I've found, the fear that we as inexperienced male virgins have is highly irrational. Of course, I recognize this but knowing it is irrational does not remove it. I still get nervous. The only time I'm completely never nervous in a social setting is when I am on stage performing.

[ThaWholigan]

Well I would view this as the father's job. I think men who were raised by their mums are probably at a disadvantage. Most women wouldn't encourage their sons to learn healthy ways to be assertive - which I happen to disagree with.

 

To be fair to my own mother, who raised me on her own, she did try and help me to become more assertive in many ways, but as my problem was unique, I don't think she was entirely equipped to completely help me. Her most recent advice for me in terms of dating was "son, why don't you just go and get laid?" :laugh::laugh: That was kinda funny.....

 

I didn't have a particularly strong consistent relationship with my dad till 13. He has been helping me really just by his example of being self-driven and generally being almost Shakespearean in his ability with words and seduction (well, he is an actor ). I think I inherited this ability to be good with words, but still getting a hang of it really. He has good body language, I have even tried emulating him recently, it does work.

 

This is what I've been saying the whole time: the men who rape women and/or abuse or take advantage of them aren't going to stop behaving that way because some sex ed teacher in high school told them it's bad. Assertive and healthy men will know pretty instinctively (or from parents and family members) about what's right and wrong in terms of treating a woman. The passive men (who probably have passive father figures as well) will mistakenly apply those lessons to themselves and just become more passive than they already were. So basically there's no need to make these sorts of things part of any sex ed curriculum since it does nothing positive for anyone.

 

There is a need to teach men how to be men, and fathers don't do this much anymore. My father only came into his own as my brothers and I got older, his role became more amplified. He's not the greatest dad, but I love him dearly and he does try. He's quite zen-like in the way he teaches us, and has a tendency to have long soliloquies and tangents when he's trying to tell us something, but usually he gets to the point quite emphatically.

 

Men like this aren't common these days. We have to find that man through trial and error now. Some won't have the fortitude, but we have to cultivate it somehow. It's particularly important to my life that I do this, and I owe it to myself and my family.

[Emilia]

 

Most women actually find it amusing as I've found, the fear that we as inexperienced male virgins have is highly irrational. Of course, I recognize this but knowing it is irrational does not remove it. I still get nervous. The only time I'm completely never nervous in a social setting is when I am on stage performing.

 

That's a big difference yes and I admit I have no concept of it. I enjoy teasing men I find sexually attractive and if it doesn't work I just move on.

 

Because I naturally overcame this over the years I don't really know what to say. I assume you have regular contact with women, especially as you perform.

[Emilia]

 

I didn't have a particularly strong consistent relationship with my dad till 13. He has been helping me really just by his example of being self-driven and generally being almost Shakespearean in his ability with words and seduction (well, he is an actor ). I think I inherited this ability to be good with words, but still getting a hang of it really. He has good body language, I have even tried emulating him recently, it does work.

Body language is huge. We all underestimate how our brain processes communication, spoken words make up a small percentage of it.

 

There is a need to teach men how to be men, and fathers don't do this much anymore. My father only came into his own as my brothers and I got older, his role became more amplified. He's not the greatest dad, but I love him dearly and he does try. He's quite zen-like in the way he teaches us, and has a tendency to have long soliloquies and tangents when he's trying to tell us something, but usually he gets to the point quite emphatically.

 

Men like this aren't common these days. We have to find that man through trial and error now. Some won't have the fortitude, but we have to cultivate it somehow. It's particularly important to my life that I do this, and I owe it to myself and my family.

 

Older men always bring up 'national service' that made men out of boys. Terrible idea of course in this day and age but that's how they got around it until a couple of generations ago

[ThaWholigan]

That's a big difference yes and I admit I have no concept of it. I enjoy teasing men I find sexually attractive and if it doesn't work I just move on.

 

Because I naturally overcame this over the years I don't really know what to say. I assume you have regular contact with women, especially as you perform.

 

Not too recently, but I do frequent a lot of places where there are women.

 

Teasing is quite difficult as it was not something I was good at, so I was always the one being teased as a kid. I hated it, and my immediate reaction was anger, followed swiftly by retreat. That changed when I was 15, time spent with my father and I was completely different. I became immune, even found it funny. The hard part was learning to tease back/banter. Still kinda difficult, but I am much more comfortable with people than I ever have been (Surprisingly I owe that to a 3 year cannabis habit, after which I quit this summer).

[ThaWholigan]

Body language is huge. We all underestimate how our brain processes communication, spoken words make up a small percentage of it.

 

Indeed. Most guys who are great with women have superior body language. Once my posture improved, I started to feel better and notice people watching me more. It's quite intriguing.

 

Older men always bring up 'national service' that made men out of boys. Terrible idea of course in this day and age but that's how they got around it until a couple of generations ago

 

National Service is a little extreme. But sometimes it's a good option for a particular kind of man, one who wants to be put in situations that require being able to thrive under pressure, to survive. Not for everyone.

 

I think with regards to being attractive to women, it's a little bit of a grey area. One would have to hone attributes like body language, fitness, conversational ability, seduction, humor, grooming etc. Most men would have grooming down well enough, but the others are at times neglected.

[Emilia]

 

I think with regards to being attractive to women, it's a little bit of a grey area. One would have to hone attributes like body language, fitness, conversational ability, seduction, humor, grooming etc. Most men would have grooming down well enough, but the others are at times neglected.

 

I intuitively distrust men who have these skills down to a tee because I like honesty and genuine connection but a lot of women are attracted to superficial qualities yes. A lot of women judge men by their footwear, would you believe it, when it comes to first impressions.

[ThaWholigan]

I intuitively distrust men who have these skills down to a tee because I like honesty and genuine connection but a lot of women are attracted to superficial qualities yes. A lot of women judge men by their footwear, would you believe it, when it comes to first impressions.

 

I think it's because generally they acquire those skills for superficial reasons. I have big plans for my life that includes people and their happiness. Music is a key part of that too, but it goes beyond. I think it would serve me best if I learned some of those skills.

 

I have had women actively disrespect me because of my shoes . I cussed out her weave and she had the nerve to tell me I was rude. Needless to say, I sorted out my shoe problem, but I conceded privately that I had no fashion sense. A lot of women do trust their first impressions, they really do count.

[Dust]

Inexperienced men will in general be bad at dating. Now to say its because of their inexperience wouldn't be entirely true. Their inexperience is often caused by their bad social skills in the first place.

 

As for women with experience they can just lie and say they are a virgin. There is no magic number for what society considers a slutt but depedning on where you live it can be 1-100 who knows. Society does love to hate women for having to much sex.

[Emilia]

A lot of women do trust their first impressions, they really do count.

 

I do. Most of the time I have a certain impression of someone, I give them a chance and get to know them only to revert to the very first impression made. However, it is usually based on more than someone's shoes.