Inexperienced males vs females with too much experience

[fortyninethousand322]

Just a couple of things I'll say here being one of those "inexperienced males":

 

1. I've never thought that the inexperience in and of itself held me back with women. It's not like I wear a sign on my chest declaring that I've never had a girlfriend and I always pretend that I've had one when I'm out with friends. Few would guess (aside from my postings here) that I'm inexperienced. There is something else going on (subconsciously perhaps) that Zengirl kind of alluded to in her posts.

 

2. Why then if inexperience is such a negative trait, do people look down on guys who either a) settle for women they might not be really all that into or b) date younger women? I mean, if a guy is 30 and inexperienced and goes and dates a 22 year old woman who is more at his level, where's the harm? Whenever we have these age gap dating threads everyone piles on the men as if dating someone they have more in common with is a horrible crime. Silly really...

 

3. Threads like these are largely why I've completed had to retool my whole (possibly naive) outlook on dating. I used to think it was only a matter of finding someone who had some things in common with me, shared similar life values/outlooks, and was reasonably attractive. Now I realize that there's a whole other side to this whole thing. This is a red flag, that's a red flag, etc. Women are largely neurotic worry warts who greatly desire to believe the lies you tell them. And the key here is "lies" not "bent truths" or exaggerations, but out and out lies. They could care less if you are inexperienced, but they want you to act like you are regardless.

[LTP]

That logic doesnt fly much though because that person has NEVER had sex to begin with. Sure practice can make it better. But using your logic I can say something along the lines of this: I love chess, Im pretty decent at it. But im playing a noob. Chances are I can teach the noob and make them better, but it is possible that I can get a more satisfying experience from someone on my level. I could say the same thing about relationships. Just like OP did. Why would I date someone whos never had a relationship. It would say a lot about their ability to have them.

 

So why at an older age, where sex will obviously be a big deal to the virgin, should I invest in someone I could possibly be very incompatible with. Especially given the long wait thats going into having sex with that person. With someone more like myself, I will know if we click within the first month, and if we dont click, then pulling the plug is easier.

 

Everyone has different needs and desires. And I desire an equal. Im not worrying about just the performance. Its about all the emotional pressure that goes into being someones first, its about how much the relationship changes after sex especially since you are their first, and its about how much their personality changes after theyve experienced sex.

 

A lot of people will tell you that you go through changes once you start to experience sex and relationships more. I have a very different outlook on both since I lost my virginity at 18. Back I spoke just like you and OP. But through experience, what I want and need has changed a bit.

 

Thats life.

 

Sex is not chess. Chess is a game people play for fun. Sex has a very deep meaning between two people and it is far more than just the physical aspect.

[ThaWholigan]

Sex is not chess. Chess is a game people play for fun. Sex has a very deep meaning between two people and it is far more than just the physical aspect.

 

Sex has as much meaning as you apply to it. It obviously depends on your faith and beliefs, but you have to understand that not everybody shares your belief about sex. Sorry, but you're beating your head against the wall here.....

 

Just a couple of things I'll say here being one of those "inexperienced males":

 

1. I've never thought that the inexperience in and of itself held me back with women. It's not like I wear a sign on my chest declaring that I've never had a girlfriend and I always pretend that I've had one when I'm out with friends. Few would guess (aside from my postings here) that I'm inexperienced. There is something else going on (subconsciously perhaps) that Zengirl kind of alluded to in her posts.

 

2. Why then if inexperience is such a negative trait, do people look down on guys who either a) settle for women they might not be really all that into or b) date younger women? I mean, if a guy is 30 and inexperienced and goes and dates a 22 year old woman who is more at his level, where's the harm? Whenever we have these age gap dating threads everyone piles on the men as if dating someone they have more in common with is a horrible crime. Silly really...

 

3. Threads like these are largely why I've completed had to retool my whole (possibly naive) outlook on dating. I used to think it was only a matter of finding someone who had some things in common with me, shared similar life values/outlooks, and was reasonably attractive. Now I realize that there's a whole other side to this whole thing. This is a red flag, that's a red flag, etc. Women are largely neurotic worry warts who greatly desire to believe the lies you tell them. And the key here is "lies" not "bent truths" or exaggerations, but out and out lies. They could care less if you are inexperienced, but they want you to act like you are regardless.

 

[bOLDED] Because people like to maintain status quo. They are not bothered about whether you get some or not. That's your problem as far as they are concerned. We could go over what you must do, but thats another thread....

 

[iTALIC] I feel the same. When I started understanding people more, and what was required for dating, I felt an overwhelming sadness at how terrible I was at talking to girls and getting dates/sex etc. I knew it would be an uphill struggle for me, and it is. But I have somehow been blessed with the ability to purge away my sadness easily. I always bounce back. You have to find that ability, to bounce back. To shrug it off your shoulders and just say f*** it.

[LTP]

I promised myself I'd not come back to this thread but curiosity won over.

I'm curious as I don't think I have this answer properly yet: What is the definition of TRUE love and how come an act like sex, while necessary, wins over everything else so as not to date someone who is not experienced?

 

Let's see some definition of True Love:

 

"Love is not wanting to go anywhere without her. Love is not caring what other people think about the two of you. Love is when you feel depressed and sickly when you're not with her. You feel like your life has no meaning or purpose without her. And that if she wasn't holding your hand you would float away to heaven from where she came. Love is caring for her physically and emotionally. It's telling her everyday, anytime, anywhere, anyhow, for no just reason that you love her. Love is telling her u want to spend the rest of your life with her. Love is wanting to marry her even tho ya'll haven't been dating that long. That you would do anything and everything for her. It's the feeling that you would give up everything just to see her smile or look into her beautiful eyes or hear her soft, soothing voice. Love is pure happiness. Love is the feeling you get when all you have to do is think of her and it brings a smile to your face and a yourning to your heart. Love is not being able to think about nothing but her. Love is having the sweetest dreams about her and waking up with a smile on r face. Love is an overwhelming feeling of pure bliss when the 2 of u kiss. Love is wanting to hold her in ur arms till the end of time. Love is wishing ur time with her never ends, that your lips would be locked together forever, that she'd be in ur arms till the end of time, that u could cuddle with her for all of eternity. Love is being hel..."

 

- Now how does the above tie in perfectly (if at all) with not dating someone because of lack of experience? To me that means that a) either that person has not or cannot feel true love and b) is a hypocrite by putting down inexperienced people as having red flags when this person has this HUGE red flag him/herself: that is, putting so much emphasis on sex skills over any other compatibility (even if they are hypothetically 99-100% in everything else) perhaps because they are "tired" of being the de-virginator or something.

Also, if they think the virgin is going to be clingy, why did they sleep with her in the first place? (Obviously they've learnt their lesson with the first virgin I gather). If you continue doing it, what makes them think they were not players? If not now, they definitely WERE at some point in life. So... quite a lot of red flags here! LOL

I'm 100% sure even experienced people agree, too.

 

 

Thanks LTP!!! I wish there were people like you in my area!

 

Wow, that's what I dream about! True love, very eloquently stated. I wish just as much that were people like you out here. There may be, but they are hard to find!

[samsungxoxo]

Lmao....dude, just look up the stories of the women who waited for marriage to have sex. Then realized sex with their hubby didnt satisfy them so they cheat or divorce.

 

Or the stories of people who only been with one person, and despite being older, still go through that stage of wanting to experience other people just to make sure they arent missing out on anything.

I hate to admit this but I'm glad I didn't marry my ex bf. Looking back almost 5 years later after losing it to him, if it had proceeded towards marriage I have a feeling it wouldn't have last. Something tells me I would have met someone else and divorce him later on (I wouldn't cheat but would leave). Sometimes he kinda sucked and there were other things about him that annoyed me too. Overall it was like an unstabled relationship.

 

I guess if it didn't work out it's for a good reason. It was never meant to be. Even sometime in the relationship I kinda would wonder what's it like being with someone else (guilty on that).

Edited December 28, 2011 by samsungxoxo

[kaylan]

^ I have seen your threads regarding him and am glad you came to that realization.

 

Never feel like you missed out. Experience life and make the right decisions.

 

When we meet the right person we wont second guess ourselves.

[MrNate 2.0]

Maybe I should have started another thread but just a quick question since I can tell by people's responses I'm screwed (pun intended) for leaving it too late, even as a female older virgin (and I'm not 27 but 29 unfortunately). (I just don't want to date from Christian sites because I'm not overly religious). I forgot to mention I had a huge case of adult acne a few years ago and I lost time there, too, apparently. Now I'm cured though. (You have to know severe acne & dating are almost incompatible; simply look up all the acne forums to see how bad things are in terms of dating for both genders).

 

OK... But now, since no amount of beauty, charm, intelligence, humour or anything else will save me from posting cat pictures and videos on youtube in the future, what SHOULD I do? Get drunk and give my virginity away to someone from a night club or Craig's list (even though I'd need therapy afterwards I suppose)? Lie to the men I meet and pretend I'm not a virgin hoping he can't tell? Maybe if he drinks lots of wine he'll be too drunk to notice... Try hypnosis to become promiscuous (or... hopefully a lesbian)? Hire a male prostitute so I can tell him exactly what I want and take it slow (even though I googled, and it's really hard to find anyone - well, unless you're a gay male I suppose). Last but not least, IF I ever go back to dating (which I'm truly and utterly discouraged to do now), how do I NOT scare a man away when I tell him that (and hopefully also not invite the creepy ones in either)?

Help? Seriously, I'm so down now it's no joke.

 

You have nothing to be down about. Life is great, and you are great. Everyone has their own opinions, but you seriously must march to your own tune. Don't get caught up in other's opinions. Look, you're wearing yourself out! If you make all your moves in life based on social pressure, you won't get anywhere, except feeling bad you let that drive you.

 

Go for what you want when you are ready. We humans are so complex, it's literally amazing. Whatever you're ready for, go get it girl. Let only your opinions and life define you. You will live a much healthier life that way.

[kaylan]

Sex is not chess. Chess is a game people play for fun. Sex has a very deep meaning between two people and it is far more than just the physical aspect.

1. Learn to read. I also used the same analogy with relationships. Someone who hasnt ever had relationships throws up caution flags to most people, especially to girls like OP who value them a lot. Someone who never had a relationship gives off a signal that they may not be good at them.

 

2. Reading comprehension is your friend. Use it. Sex is for fun as well. And its something you can get better at with experience, much like relationships or chess. Depending on the person I am with, sex can be just physical, or it can have deep meaning as well.

 

As two people get used to each other they learn more and more what each other likes and sex is quite likely to improve. If one or both stop making an effort, that's a different story and it could get worse.

You cannot force sex though. Sure you can work at it, but sometimes 2 people dont fit sexually. Thats real life.

Edited December 28, 2011 by kaylan

[turt]

In general, most of you prefer an experienced mate because you must take sexual actions into consideration before forming a relationship? Basically, you don't want to waste the time to see if you're sexually compatible?

[kaylan]

I promised myself I'd not come back to this thread but curiosity won over.

I'm curious as I don't think I have this answer properly yet: What is the definition of TRUE love and how come an act like sex, while necessary, wins over everything else so as not to date someone who is not experienced?

Sex does not win over everything else. You fail to understand everything Ive been saying. I keep telling you an older virgin usually always has different values then I do, and different beliefs than I do regarding many different things. I usually just dont click with inexperienced gals.

 

Let's see some definition of True Love:

"Love is not wanting to go anywhere without her. Love is not caring what other people think about the two of you. Love is when you feel depressed and sickly when you're not with her. You feel like your life has no meaning or purpose without her. And that if she wasn't holding your hand you would float away to heaven from where she came. Love is caring for her physically and emotionally. It's telling her everyday, anytime, anywhere, anyhow, for no just reason that you love her. Love is telling her u want to spend the rest of your life with her. Love is wanting to marry her even tho ya'll haven't been dating that long. That you would do anything and everything for her. It's the feeling that you would give up everything just to see her smile or look into her beautiful eyes or hear her soft, soothing voice. Love is pure happiness. Love is the feeling you get when all you have to do is think of her and it brings a smile to your face and a yourning to your heart. Love is not being able to think about nothing but her. Love is having the sweetest dreams about her and waking up with a smile on r face. Love is an overwhelming feeling of pure bliss when the 2 of u kiss. Love is wanting to hold her in ur arms till the end of time. Love is wishing ur time with her never ends, that your lips would be locked together forever, that she'd be in ur arms till the end of time, that u could cuddle with her for all of eternity. Love is being hel..."

Love is also total connection. Physically, Emotionally, and Mentally.

 

You need all those for a successful relationship.

 

You are really stuck on this idea of teenage disney style love.

- Now how does the above tie in perfectly (if at all) with not dating someone because of lack of experience? To me that means that a) either that person has not or cannot feel true love and b) is a hypocrite by putting down inexperienced people as having red flags when this person has this HUGE red flag him/herself: that is, putting so much emphasis on sex skills over any other compatibility (even if they are hypothetically 99-100% in everything else) perhaps because they are "tired" of being the de-virginator or something.

Again, loving someone is about different types of connections and you keep missing the boat.

 

I have felt real and true love for someone before, and my viewpoints dont prevent me from feeling it again. You just cannot accept that someone wants to date a person on their level, someone of similar life experience. Get over it.

 

You make up this hypothetical about being compatible in every other way, but it doesnt work like that. Usually a girl thats of a different view of sex then I am, will not fit with me romantically. She may dismiss me before I dismiss her. You already dismissed me yourself based on my sexual experience. You cannot talk about being a hypocrite when you criticize me for doing the EXACT same thing you are doing.

 

The way I know I will not click with a girl whos different from me sexually,

is the same as me knowing I will not click with a girl who cannot stimulate me in conversation, nor who can open up to me emotionally and tell me her feelings. AGAIN, I am telling you, having lasting love involves a physical, emotional, and mental connection like I just explained.

Also, if they think the virgin is going to be clingy, why did they sleep with her in the first place? (Obviously they've learnt their lesson with the first virgin I gather). If you continue doing it, what makes them think they were not players? If not now, they definitely WERE at some point in life. So... quite a lot of red flags here! LOL

I'm 100% sure even experienced people agree, too.

 

 

Thanks LTP!!! I wish there were people like you in my area!

I slept with the first virgin because she was a good friend and I was young a stupid. I was 19 at the time. She liked me, and was after me for a while, but I was just out of a relationship anyways. So I told her I needed time before getting serious with anyone, plus I wasnt sure of my feelings for her. She kept trying to seduce me and we had sex. She then professed to love me while we were in bed, which is weird because I knew she was just infatuated because I was her first.

 

She got real clingy over the next few weeks, but its not like I went in with bad intentions. She was determined to sleep with me.

 

The second virgin I was with was my ex. I was in love with her, hence why I slept with her. I was 22 then. However, it was just a lot of drama with her as well. She wasnt clingy, but obviously needed to go through all the experiences one goes through with sex and serious relationships. She was just too young and new to things at the time to ever really know what she wanted at the time. I need someone more mature and we would still be together if she lost her virginity and got some more dating/love experience before she met me.

 

So its not like Im a sociopath who keeps preying on virgins. Ive had my experiences and made the decision to date girls who are more on my level. I find that certain life experiences are necessary for a girl to be on my level and for us to mesh properly.

[kaylan]

I'm currently 24 years old (will be 25 on April) and no offence but regarding the poster saying men always asking how many partners we slept with: if a man ever ask me that on a date, even though my number is still 1 till this day (hasn't change since 2007) I would dumped him right away. Honestly that's none of anyone's business and if that's all he wanted to know, then he can take a hike because I'm gonna declined that question.

I dont think anyone was asserting that people ask that on a first date. Men and women usually ask each other that after they know one another well.

 

I dont think its a bad question to ask. Some folks are just seeking someone who views physical relationships and commitment the same way they do.

 

Some girls may think Im a whore do to my sexual history, others may think Im rather tame. It is what it is and I have no problem being honest about my past at all. All I know is Im safe and honest always.

[kaylan]

In general, most of you prefer an experienced mate because you must take sexual actions into consideration before forming a relationship? Basically, you don't want to waste the time to see if you're sexually compatible?

Ding ding ding, thank you.

 

Finally someone who gets it.

 

This is exactly what it is for me. Aside from me being a horndog as well lolz. I keed, I keed.

 

Sex to me is like many other things in the relationship that you wanna know click someone. Social views, political views, thoughts regarding love, fidelity, life goals, etc.

[zengirl]

Lmao, are you kidding? Most men will ask how many people a girl has slept with. And if she seems rather inexperienced he will ask if shes a virgin.

 

No man has ever asked me, after my teens, how many guys I've slept with. And even back when they did, they only asked if I was a virgin or not (because we were young enough for it to be something you ask). That said, I'd never not tell someone something as big as that because if a guy was a virgin and didn't tell me that, I'd be really upset. JMO: that's something you share.

 

As to whether guys will care: Some will be intimidated by it, some will fetishize it, some will find it a plus/ego boost, and most won't give two figs, though they may think twice about sleeping with the gal if not truly serious about her. Not necessarily a bad thing. Most guys don't have some concept that virgin gals are any 'worse' at sex, unless they either have a lot of sexual experience themselves or only want to 'hit that' and feel ashamed of doing so with a virgin. I think it can be nerve-wracking to deal with virginity though.

 

Just a couple of things I'll say here being one of those "inexperienced males":

 

1. I've never thought that the inexperience in and of itself held me back with women. It's not like I wear a sign on my chest declaring that I've never had a girlfriend and I always pretend that I've had one when I'm out with friends. Few would guess (aside from my postings here) that I'm inexperienced. There is something else going on (subconsciously perhaps) that Zengirl kind of alluded to in her posts.

 

2. Why then if inexperience is such a negative trait, do people look down on guys who either a) settle for women they might not be really all that into or b) date younger women? I mean, if a guy is 30 and inexperienced and goes and dates a 22 year old woman who is more at his level, where's the harm? Whenever we have these age gap dating threads everyone piles on the men as if dating someone they have more in common with is a horrible crime. Silly really...

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with dating a bit younger if you happen to meet someone you like in that age, but seeking younger girls because of an insecurity you have speaks of. . . something a bit disturbing to me. I would say that being intimidated by an entire generation of women --- YOUR generation --- wholesale is not a good quality. Wanting someone who appears 'weaker' in some way, even if it's because it's 'more on your level,' seems somewhat gross to me. Granted, dating a specific 22 year old because she's awesome is not the same thing as that. Even dating her because she's smoking hot is less gross. It's actively seeking power that's gross (and, in the case of what you're saying, a sign of the larger insecurity that's likely holding you back in the first place).

 

3. Threads like these are largely why I've completed had to retool my whole (possibly naive) outlook on dating. I used to think it was only a matter of finding someone who had some things in common with me, shared similar life values/outlooks, and was reasonably attractive. Now I realize that there's a whole other side to this whole thing. This is a red flag, that's a red flag, etc. Women are largely neurotic worry warts who greatly desire to believe the lies you tell them. And the key here is "lies" not "bent truths" or exaggerations, but out and out lies. They could care less if you are inexperienced, but they want you to act like you are regardless.

 

Personally, I think you've found the wrong lesson. The lesson, to me, is: There are a variety of people, with a variety of experiences and priorities, and they may not all agree, but the common denominator in my lack of success (general my) is always me, and I can always change that. If I'm willing to admit I make my own problems, I can make my own solutions. But you have to really believe that. If you did, I think you could change your life. But you have to be honest, with other people and most of all with yourself, in order to take those steps. I've seen many people do it.

[silvermercy]

Sex does not win over everything else. You fail to understand everything Ive been saying. I keep telling you an older virgin usually always has different values then I do, and different beliefs than I do regarding many different things. I usually just dont click with inexperienced gals.

You fail to see my point, too. And how do you know that if you never dated any of these older virgins? Assumption. Your virgins were young and you were young. Statistically, your relationships would fail ANYWAY.

 

Love is also total connection. Physically, Emotionally, and Mentally.

 

You need all those for a successful relationship.

Indeed. So what happens when you're 80 years old and not physically attracted to each other anymore? How do those happy marriages survive without sex? There was something else ABOVE the sex. Sex is only the glue of a happy marriage, not the major constituent.

 

You are really stuck on this idea of teenage disney style love.

But you think you have found the grown-up version? You're still single, too? No?

 

I have felt real and true love for someone before, and my viewpoints dont prevent me from feeling it again. You just cannot accept that someone wants to date a person on their level, someone of similar life experience. Get over it.

As I had said earlier, it's about compatibility ONLY and NOT red flags. Also, I'm not convinced it was true love. Maybe you thought you were giving 100% but in reality it was 70%. Not convinced... sorry...

 

You make up this hypothetical about being compatible in every other way, but it doesnt work like that. Usually a girl thats of a different view of sex then I am, will not fit with me romantically. She may dismiss me before I dismiss her. You already dismissed me yourself based on my sexual experience. You cannot talk about being a hypocrite when you criticize me for doing the EXACT same thing you are doing.

That was my exact question. HOW IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE? You can't speak about real romance surely? Maybe a watered-down version?

I had also explained earlier why I would never date you: because you would never give me a chance anyway and would put too much emphasis on sex skills. Not a recipe for true love.

 

The way I know I will not click with a girl whos different from me sexually,

is the same as me knowing I will not click with a girl who cannot stimulate me in conversation, nor who can open up to me emotionally and tell me her feelings. AGAIN, I am telling you, having lasting love involves a physical, emotional, and mental connection like I just explained.

Again you're putting sex skills before/with the other 2. Again, recipe for disaster.

 

I slept with the first virgin because she was a good friend and I was young a stupid. I was 19 at the time. She liked me, and was after me for a while, but I was just out of a relationship anyways. So I told her I needed time before getting serious with anyone, plus I wasnt sure of my feelings for her. She kept trying to seduce me and we had sex. She then professed to love me while we were in bed, which is weird because I knew she was just infatuated because I was her first.

 

She got real clingy over the next few weeks, but its not like I went in with bad intentions. She was determined to sleep with me.

 

The second virgin I was with was my ex. I was in love with her, hence why I slept with her. I was 22 then. However, it was just a lot of drama with her as well. She wasnt clingy, but obviously needed to go through all the experiences one goes through with sex and serious relationships. She was just too young and new to things at the time to ever really know what she wanted at the time. I need someone more mature and we would still be together if she lost her virginity and got some more dating/love experience before she met me.

 

So its not like Im a sociopath who keeps preying on virgins. Ive had my experiences and made the decision to date girls who are more on my level. I find that certain life experiences are necessary for a girl to be on my level and for us to mesh properly.

As I said above, that would statistically happen ANYWAY since you were both too young IN GENERAL. Not so much about having more sexual experiences or not. More about being naive and immature IN GENERAL.

Edited December 28, 2011 by silvermercy

[ThaWholigan]

I don't think there's anything wrong with dating a bit younger if you happen to meet someone you like in that age, but seeking younger girls because of an insecurity you have speaks of. . . something a bit disturbing to me. I would say that being intimidated by an entire generation of women --- YOUR generation --- wholesale is not a good quality. Wanting someone who appears 'weaker' in some way, even if it's because it's 'more on your level,' seems somewhat gross to me. Granted, dating a specific 22 year old because she's awesome is not the same thing as that. Even dating her because she's smoking hot is less gross. It's actively seeking power that's gross (and, in the case of what you're saying, a sign of the larger insecurity that's likely holding you back in the first place).

---------------------------------------------------------

I genuinely don't think that was what he was getting at. I think it's not about power, it's about having some kind of experience, anything, rather than carrying on being invisible to women. I don't exactly echo this mindset, but I get where he is coming from.

----------------------------------------------------------

 

Personally, I think you've found the wrong lesson. The lesson, to me, is: There are a variety of people, with a variety of experiences and priorities, and they may not all agree, but the common denominator in my lack of success (general my) is always me, and I can always change that. If I'm willing to admit I make my own problems, I can make my own solutions. But you have to really believe that. If you did, I think you could change your life. But you have to be honest, with other people and most of all with yourself, in order to take those steps. I've seen many people do it.

 

Agreed. I have seen people do it too. It was incredibly difficult and many times they almost threw the towel in. I have declared many times that I will give up on women, only to talk myself out of it. It is one thing to be consciously aware of ones own incompetence, it is another to actually convince yourself you are capable of doing anything about it. It is not easy, it requires a total reconditioning.

[kaylan]

You fail to see my point, too. And how do you know that if you never dated any of these older virgins? Assumption. Your virgins were young and you were young. Statistically, your relationships would fail ANYWAY.

You fail to see what I am saying here.

 

I dont need to date them to know it wont work. I have already gotten to know them and talked to them before the dating phase. So no, it isnt assumptions. I see the incompatibility we have while we are friends, so I know it definitely wouldnt work out romantically.

 

 

Indeed. So what happens when you're 80 years old and not physically attracted to each other anymore? How do those happy marriages survive without sex? There was something else ABOVE the sex. Sex is only the glue of a happy marriage, not the major constituent.

Are you daft?

We are young right now, and you need physical, emotional, and a mental connection to CREATE a lasting relationship IN THE PRESENT.

 

Sex is a glue, being able to converse with one another and get along is a glue, and being able to be emotionally intimate is also a glue. What dont you get about what I am saying? Most marriages fail because they lack one of those three components.

 

For me, I cannot have a lasting relationship with someone I have bad sex with. I cannot have a lasting relationship with someone who doesnt stimulate my intellectual side. And I cannot have a lasting relationship with someone who doesnt share their emotions with me, because I need to see their insides.

 

But you think you have found the grown-up version? You're still single, too? No?

I am single by choice. Do you know how easy it is to find a girlfriend?

 

I could do that in a heartbeat but I wouldnt be happy. Difference between me and you is that I know what the grown up version of Disney really is. Its real life, and real life is not some bolded paragraph one way definition of love. Love is complex and more than just a fairytale.

 

As I had said earlier, it's about compatibility ONLY and NOT red flags. Also, I'm not convinced it was true love. Maybe you thought you were giving 100% but in reality it was 70%. Not convinced... sorry...

And you keep missing what I am trying to say. Red flags are a signal of incompatibility. For instance, say I meet a girl, but she doesnt like gay people. To me thats a red flag that points out incompatibility, because I am not prejudice and accept LGBT folks.

 

And Lmao I couldnt care less if you thought I felt true love. I know what I felt, and know I was willing to do anything for that girl and saw a big future with her.

 

But the thing is, I know real and true love can happen with more than one person. There is no "the one" but many people out there that someone can fall in love with. With any many people there are in the world, its silly and statistically false to think not so.

That was my exact question. HOW IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE? You can't speak about real romance surely? Maybe a watered-down version?

I had also explained earlier why I would never date you: because you would never give me a chance anyway and would put too much emphasis on sex skills. Not a recipe for true love.

Its possible. Because every time I have met a girl as reserved as you, she has turned out to have very different values and beliefs than me beyond sex.

 

I mean come on, you see me as not dateable because I had flings. You are doing the same thing I am. Dont be a hypocrite.

 

I know what real romance is for me, and you cannot tell me otherwise. As I said, sex is as important as emotional and mental connection. If a girl had something about her from one of those areas that was very important and didnt click with me, Id know a romance couldnt last based on those things too.

Again you're putting sex skills before the other 2. Again, recipe for disaster.

How am I putting them before it? Can you not read?

 

I have had good sex with girls I have had nothing in common with mentally or emotionally, and I didnt date them because of that. So no, I do not put sex before the other 2. All 3 must be present for me to date a girl seriously.

 

I know what I want and wont compromise because I seek a fun, loving, long lasting relationship when Im ready for it.

As I said above, that would statistically happen ANYWAY since you were both too young IN GENERAL. Not so much about having more sexual experiences or not. More about being naive and immature IN GENERAL.

Sexual experiences are a HUGE part of growing as a person.

 

And like I said, with older virgins or inexperienced women, they put a lot more emotional emphasis on sex. So they lack the emotional experiences I have had already in that regard. So I have no idea how they will behave afterwards. It can either work for or against me. And as I told you, I have seen stories where it has worked against the relationship.

 

Id rather someone be when I am in life experience. Deal with it.

[fortyninethousand322]

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with dating a bit younger if you happen to meet someone you like in that age, but seeking younger girls because of an insecurity you have speaks of. . . something a bit disturbing to me. I would say that being intimidated by an entire generation of women --- YOUR generation --- wholesale is not a good quality. Wanting someone who appears 'weaker' in some way, even if it's because it's 'more on your level,' seems somewhat gross to me. Granted, dating a specific 22 year old because she's awesome is not the same thing as that. Even dating her because she's smoking hot is less gross. It's actively seeking power that's gross (and, in the case of what you're saying, a sign of the larger insecurity that's likely holding you back in the first place).

 

 

Well I suppose it's a case of different opinions. To you, it's gross; to me, it's not a big deal.

 

Now this is entirely hypothetical currently. One, because I have no desire to date at the moment (perhaps a case of giving up or maybe it's just a phase) and two, because I'm 23 and not in danger of dating anyone considered "weaker" than me. But, I'd imagine the scenario of a 30 year old dating a 22 year old because she was less experienced and/or more accepting of his inexperience would be no different than that same 30 year old inexperienced guy dating a single mother for the same reason (i.e. she's "desperate" and will date anyone, etc.). I'd also imagine that were I to be 30 years old and in the same position that I am in now I can't honestly say that the prospect of taking some "power" for myself wouldn't be a tempting proposition (and I'd wager to say that for most people this is the case). You might think it's "gross" but walk a mile in my shoes and see where it takes you.

 

 

Personally, I think you've found the wrong lesson. The lesson, to me, is: There are a variety of people, with a variety of experiences and priorities, and they may not all agree, but the common denominator in my lack of success (general my) is always me, and I can always change that. If I'm willing to admit I make my own problems, I can make my own solutions. But you have to really believe that. If you did, I think you could change your life. But you have to be honest, with other people and most of all with yourself, in order to take those steps. I've seen many people do it.

 

Absolutely. But, the problem with "me" is that I simply lack that manipulative, lying, deceitful/mysterious side that makes women swoon. You know that whole "he could sleep with me and never call back" thing. I don't have that. I'm too upfront with my good nature that's the problem.

 

And I highly doubt you've seen "many people" see dating success after experiencing nothing but failure through their early 20s. There just aren't that many people who struggle with dating for you to have met "many" of them. But, then again, the world is a smaller and smaller place, so maybe you have...

[dasein]

"Love is not wanting to go anywhere without her...

 

What you are describing is either codependence or some silly verse printed on a unicorn and stars tapestry, definitely not "love."

[kaylan]

No man has ever asked me, after my teens, how many guys I've slept with. And even back when they did, they only asked if I was a virgin or not (because we were young enough for it to be something you ask). That said, I'd never not tell someone something as big as that because if a guy was a virgin and didn't tell me that, I'd be really upset. JMO: that's something you share.

Well I guess you are of a different experience than I am. From personal experience, and what many friends tell me, people usually end up asking at one point of another.

 

I agree its something you share, but I share everything about myself with someone I see a future with. I am not ashamed of who I am and am an open book. I want the girl I love to know me completely, and I want to know her completely as well. That level of trust you get from doing that is unlike no other.

As to whether guys will care: Some will be intimidated by it, some will fetishize it, some will find it a plus/ego boost, and most won't give two figs, though they may think twice about sleeping with the gal if not truly serious about her. Not necessarily a bad thing. Most guys don't have some concept that virgin gals are any 'worse' at sex, unless they either have a lot of sexual experience themselves or only want to 'hit that' and feel ashamed of doing so with a virgin. I think it can be nerve-wracking to deal with virginity though.

I agree with everything you said, except the part of guys not having a concept of a virgin being less skilled at sex. Men do talk, and do like a girl with skill, and many like a girl who is a "freak". But you are right, it all depends on the fella.

 

And yes it is very nerve wracking to deal with a virgin. This girl I used to see in the bar all the time this past spring, ended up taking a liking to me. She was cute, but not really my type...but in convo she eventually tells me she is a virgin. And that really helped me to go from being iffy about hooking up with her, to def not wanting to. Because at the time, and still presently, I am not looking for anything serious unless I happen upon the right girl...So i knew doing anything with her would be drama because shes prolly looking for the right guy. (she was 21)

[ThaWholigan]

Well I suppose it's a case of different opinions. To you, it's gross; to me, it's not a big deal.

 

Now this is entirely hypothetical currently. One, because I have no desire to date at the moment (perhaps a case of giving up or maybe it's just a phase) and two, because I'm 23 and not in danger of dating anyone considered "weaker" than me. But, I'd imagine the scenario of a 30 year old dating a 22 year old because she was less experienced and/or more accepting of his inexperience would be no different than that same 30 year old inexperienced guy dating a single mother for the same reason (i.e. she's "desperate" and will date anyone, etc.). I'd also imagine that were I to be 30 years old and in the same position that I am in now I can't honestly say that the prospect of taking some "power" for myself wouldn't be a tempting proposition (and I'd wager to say that for most people this is the case). You might think it's "gross" but walk a mile in my shoes and see where it takes you.

 

[i [/b]stand corrected Zengirl]

 

 

Absolutely. But, the problem with "me" is that I simply lack that manipulative, lying, deceitful/mysterious side that makes women swoon. You know that whole "he could sleep with me and never call back" thing. I don't have that. I'm too upfront with my good nature that's the problem.

^^^^^

 

You don't need to have a lying, deceitful side. Manipulative? Perhaps persuasive is a better word. Mysterious is not hard, just be more selective about what you say, it gives your words more credence. There are all skills you can use to supplement your "good nature". I get you though, my brother is always shagging girls and not calling them back, but they still like him .

[kaylan]

What you are describing is either codependence or some silly verse printed on a unicorn and stars tapestry, definitely not "love."

I lol'd at the unicorns part

[fortyninethousand322]

^^^^^

 

You don't need to have a lying, deceitful side. Manipulative? Perhaps persuasive is a better word. Mysterious is not hard, just be more selective about what you say, it gives your words more credence. There are all skills you can use to supplement your "good nature". I get you though, my brother is always shagging girls and not calling them back, but they still like him .

 

About the "power" thing: you were right in your original understanding of it. It wasn't about power at all (hence why I put it in quotes). It's about getting whatever you can get. You see on this forum that women will look at a man without relationship/sexual experience as suspect, therefore to circumvent that he would then look for women who wouldn't. Younger women could, in theory fit the bill. That's what I was trying to say.

 

I have friends who have sex with women and never call back and then the women are crazy in love with them. It's extremely odd, some of these guys aren't even great catches.

[LTP]

1. Learn to read. I also used the same analogy with relationships. Someone who hasnt ever had relationships throws up caution flags to most people, especially to girls like OP who value them a lot. Someone who never had a relationship gives off a signal that they may not be good at them.

 

2. Reading comprehension is your friend. Use it. Sex is for fun as well. And its something you can get better at with experience, much like relationships or chess. Depending on the person I am with, sex can be just physical, or it can have deep meaning as well.

 

 

You cannot force sex though. Sure you can work at it, but sometimes 2 people dont fit sexually. Thats real life.

 

I have a different opinion than you and my reading comprehension is perfectly fine. By the way, the OP of this thread is me and I'm a male. Once again, there is no vaild comparison between sex and relationships and chess. Chess is just a game.

[ThaWholigan]

About the "power" thing: you were right in your original understanding of it. It wasn't about power at all (hence why I put it in quotes). It's about getting whatever you can get. You see on this forum that women will look at a man without relationship/sexual experience as suspect, therefore to circumvent that he would then look for women who wouldn't. Younger women could, in theory fit the bill. That's what I was trying to say.

 

I have friends who have sex with women and never call back and then the women are crazy in love with them. It's extremely odd, some of these guys aren't even great catches.

 

I know. I have had interest so I could have taken "whatever I can get", but I didn't want it bad enough. I didn't want to end up in a relationship with a girl I had no attraction to just because I was horny and sexually frustrated and she was around. Not fair on her or myself. A lot of those girls that were interested see me and automatically think "BOYFRIEND", like I have it tattooed on me.

 

The one girl I liked wouldn't go out/have sex with me for precisely this reason. I was, as she put it "more like husband/provider material, coz if I wanted my back blown out I wouldn't call you". That hurt. A lot. Basically I was good enough to marry but not enough to be sexually attractive and have mind-blowing sex with. So it was obviously something I was doing wrong. She didn't want to settle for me.

 

The lesson is don't settle. Even if it's sexually frustrating you. Try and find a way to channel that energy and become a more complete character.

[kaylan]

Oops...with the way silvermercy took over the thread, I thought she was the OP lol.

 

And ok, you can dismiss my chess analogy if you want, but my relationship analogy still stands and is quite valid. Experience > Inexperience, in most, if not all, things.

 

"I could say the same thing about relationships. Just like [silvermercy] did. Why would I date someone whos never had a relationship. It would say a lot about their ability to have them."