24 years of Marriage....done??!!

[Moose]

Hey Guys,

 

It's been a while since I've been on here. I left my coporate job making 6 figures a year to 21k a year. The last 2 years have been a challenge. But lucky for me I was smart enough to put enough back to make it work.

 

Our house if paid off, we own our vehicles, we only have the regular monthly bills, and I've been begged back to my corporate job.

 

The last two months have got me very confused. Blondie spends all day on facebook playing, "words with friends" or at least that's all hear say.

 

She's been treating my dis-respectfully to me, allowing my kids to do whatever they want to me, (being distrespectful) and says I need to change.

 

I started a "Knee to Knee you to me" with her every Thursday Night in my home office. We went together to counceling, once together, and the rest of the times by myself.

 

One of the issues is that I'm the money maker, she hasn't had a job in 25 years since I met her, I've met every our every, "need" and lately haven't been able to cater to her, "wants".

 

So I arranged to have money automatically deposited into her own personal credit card.

 

We've been going out to events, mostly family events because of the holidays.

 

Point is....I'm trying to get my ducks in a row, but this morning....THIS morning she looks at me and says, "I'm going to the store". I respond, "Well, ok....be careful..." Then I said, "Why do I feel like you're 2 million miles away from me?"... Her response: "You know why, I told you if you're not willing to work on this marriage, then I'm not either", She then walked out and left!

 

What else do I need to do for crying out loud! I'm working on it! It's not going to happen overnight!!!".....help...

[whichwayisup]

Moose, happy to see you back, I missed you..But sad to read your update about your wife.

 

I do recall her being this way for a long time.. Nobody respecting you, your wishes, your rules...Seems things haven't changed and she still has put no effort into changing herself, or making your marriage better.

 

This is HER issue, not yours. Sorry to say this but your wife IS THE ONE who needs counselling.. She's broken inside, can't compromise, can't meet you half way and she's still giving the same lines as before.. making you out to be the bad guy..And you're not.

 

I'm sure you're fed up..I would be too. So maybe it was a mistake to say that to her about be careful going to the store (passive agressive) but, hey - You're the one in counselling and she's not! She can't even go to marriage counselling with you! And she expects a lot.. Too much out of you and never gives much back..

 

Why can't she work? Even part time?

[Moose]

Nice to hear from you again WWIU!!

 

Her reasoning is that the teenagers are too busy with extra-curricular activities that she has to shuffle them around during the school year and it's not cost effective that she works, AND runs them around.

 

I am fed up....in fact, I told her flat out that I'm tired of the one that is expected to "change" and it was met with, "I'm the one who's been holding the family together for 24 years" and I responded, "Well if it's been that DAMN hard then why even try, just leave".

 

I can't believe it came out, but it did.....it just came out....don't know how else to explain it....

 

Now I'm going out to my shop and look for my air matress....seriously....I'm THAT fed up!!

[TaraMaiden]

Hi Moose.....

 

I'm sorry, I really am.

 

I'm serious when I ask this, but - how's your faith holding you up, hun?

 

If you need to chat, impartially - and you know i respect and acknowledge what you believe in - then drop me a line.

 

But you know the adage about what insanity is, and results, and all that.....

 

Letting go, is mandatory. Sooner or later, 'letting go' is something we will all have to do.

But some things need 'letting go' of, sooner than others.....

 

 

 

....Eh....?

[Moose]

Thanks TaraMadian,

 

My faith has never waiverd. I'm in for the marriage because of the covenant I made before God.

 

And with Blondie being a devote Christian as well, I can't believe that she's willing to put our covenant at jeapordy because I won't, "change".

 

I'm willing to do whatever it takes, and she expects this to happen overnite. It's not going to. It took me 24 years to get to where and whom I am now.

 

It's is insanity. Just like you've described. She has every right to divorce me biblically because of what I've done during our first few years of marriage. That was over 20 years ago....I thought I was forgiven. Obviously....I'm not....

 

Blondie and I are going to have a meeting at 6:30 tonight to hopefully, "talk" about this. But I'm not sure I'm going to be as receptive as I have been in the past....

[Art_Critic]

Moose, happy to see you back, I missed you..But sad to read your update about your wife.

 

Ditto Moose...

 

Moose it sounds like she is practicing the one who cares the least has all the power and using that to make a point to you to get you to change.

After that many years of marriage and her being a stay at home mom she also has the power there too.. If she leaves you will pay a really good chunk in Alimony for many years.

 

Is she happy at all ?

Does she smile.. have a good time during the day or is she sullen and depressed.

[Moose]

Hey AC!! Good to see you here still!

 

To answer your question, after we had our lil' spat....she all of a sudden spent time with our youngest daughter to make a ginger bread house. My daughter brought it to me after it was done, and after it was posted on FB. So...I think she plays that card a lot....it not something she would usually do.

 

She's on FB all day. Smile? Not at me a lot....but what her "friends" say on FB. She gets a lot of headaches, migraines and such....I just don't know man!

[whichwayisup]

Hmmm..Facebook and on it all day long...That's not good and your marriage is suffering because of it.

 

Maybe if she doesn't want to work, she can get her butt in gear and go volunteer somewhere.

 

Also her saying that she isn't able to work because the kids are now teens and need to be carted around, well, that's just a crap excuse. Her smoke screen blown at you so she can do whatever she pleases.

 

Fact is, she needs to forgive...Time has gone by, enough time for her to work through the past and LET IT GO, not hold it against you. Life is too short to hold grudges and hang onto painful stuff from a long time ago.

 

Have you thought about writing her an honest and heartfelt letter? Pour everything into it, your thoughts, feelings, fears, concerns, things that she can improve on, things that you are working on, then sit her down and watch her read the letter? that way both of you can talk about it all.

 

Living as things are isn't good and (it is already) is taking it's toll. Two miserable people in one household is a dynamic your kids ALL are well aware of though I'm sure they wouldn't be shocked or devastated if a separation happened at some point.

 

 

I am fed up....in fact, I told her flat out that I'm tired of the one that is expected to "change" and it was met with, "I'm the one who's been holding the family together for 24 years" and I responded, "Well if it's been that DAMN hard then why even try, just leave".

 

Sure, she's done her part as a mom, as a family woman but she has NOT done her part as a wife.

 

Problem really is, she feels SHE wears the pants and is in total control of everything, not willing to bend or compromise, that other people count (you!!) and not just her. She's easily pointing fingers at you and also playing the victim..It's her way of deflecting and avoiding.. She's probably afraid of opening up, being honest and OWNING her shi.t in all this.. So, its' easier for her to put it all on you. Such crap..

[whichwayisup]

 

She's on FB all day. Smile? Not at me a lot....but what her "friends" say on FB. She gets a lot of headaches, migraines and such....I just don't know man!

 

Headaches and migraines, yet she's on fb all the time... ?? Hey, I get migraines at times too, and I tell ya, the last thing I want to do is be on the computer!!

 

Is her friend list private? Do you have an account and if so, are you on her list? Is she secretative on fb? Just wondering how she reacts if you walk by and she's on there..Nervous or closes or minimizing the screen? Maybe there is someone she talks to/messages with. Maybe that's why she points fingers at you.. Just sayin'..

[wuggle]

Moose, I don't like you, but it's christmas and I'm very forgiving, even though I'm an aethiest, so please take these comments in the spirit they are meant.

 

I see you have strong religious convictions, and you say your wife does too, but have you considered the fact that she may not hold these convictions as much as you say you do and feels constrained ?

 

Maybe she has grown out of them slightly and finds life with you frustrating and 'confined' having to adhere to a set of your 'rules' and ideals. Maybe she is now asking why ? , is this what life is about ?

 

In your opening post you do seem to go to greate lengths to highlight the house, money etc, and stress that you are trying to provide. Then you ask what you need to do for your wife ?

 

How about give it all up ? How about go to her and ask her what she wants, how about putting her before your belief in god ?

 

Is your wife worth more than your dogma, your beliefs ?

 

My point I suppose is you say that your faith has never waivered, well maybe when you say that "you made a covenant before god", maybe it should, Wasn't the covenant with your wife more than god ?

[Art_Critic]

Here I clipped out the rude parts of the post that wuggle posted, he made some good points..

 

 

I see you have strong religious convictions, and you say your wife does too, but have you considered the fact that she may not hold these convictions as much as you say you do and feels constrained ?

 

Maybe she has grown out of them slightly and finds life with you frustrating and 'confined' having to adhere to a set of your 'rules' and ideals. Maybe she is now asking why ? , is this what life is about ?

 

In your opening post you do seem to go to greate lengths to highlight the house, money etc, and stress that you are trying to provide. Then you ask what you need to do for your wife ?

 

How about give it all up ? How about go to her and ask her what she wants, how about putting her before your belief in god ?

 

Is your wife worth more than your dogma, your beliefs ?

 

My point I suppose is you say that your faith has never waivered, well maybe when you say that "you made a covenant before god", maybe it should, Wasn't the covenant with your wife more than god ?

[quankanne]

Problem really is, she feels SHE wears the pants and is in total control of everything, not willing to bend or compromise, that other people count (you!!) and not just her. She's easily pointing fingers at you and also playing the victim .... It's her way of deflecting and avoiding.. She's probably afraid of opening up, being honest and OWNING her shi.t in all this .... So, its' easier for her to put it all on you. Such crap ....

 

no truer words have been written ~ I know that when I'm royally peeved with DH, a very pínche part of me spurs me into being hateful, just because i feel I've got the upper hand and I can be ugly toward him, even though I know I love him. So then nothing gets resolved and we don't work our way out of whatever troubles us. And yeah, it's that easy to do when I've adopted a "poor me" mindset brought on by a bad day, by hearing something someone has said in a book, on TV or on the internet (FB/LS/emails from friends ...).

 

however much you've been guilty of in the past regarding being hard-headed or stubborn or (fill in the blank), the fact it, she's also responsible for how she responds to the situation. She cannot completely blame you, even though she does her best to do so.

 

counseling is a very good start. Maybe it's time to also look at taking a marriage enrichment session (we did a Marriage Encounter weekend sponsored by my church, and it made a world of difference ... and my husband is the FIRST to point that out if so someone asks).

 

be strong, Moosey, but don't get snowed in by bullshxt games that have no part in the marriage. It could just take asking her what she expects of your marriage and what part each of you need to play, from her perspective.

[quankanne]

how about putting her before your belief in god? Is your wife worth more than your dogma, your beliefs? My point I suppose is you say that your faith has never waivered, well maybe when you say that "you made a covenant before god", maybe it should, Wasn't the covenant with your wife more than god?

 

somehow, I get the feeling you're pointing fingers at God and blaming Moose's desire to abide by what he's set forth is more important than taking a good, honest look at his wife's actions. Maybe she's decided that it's not important to adhere to her spiritual beliefs when it comes to their marriage, but why is God taking the fall for her behavior? For that matter, why is Moose? Her actions are completely her own even if they do involve her relationship with her husband and her God. His covenant with God isn't just something between him and God, but involves his marriage, his wife and God. And in that sense, what he does for her through their marriage is an equal giving to his wife as it is to God.

 

just sayin'

[Moose]

"I see you have strong religious convictions, and you say your wife does too, but have you considered the fact that she may not hold these convictions as much as you say you do and feels constrained ?

"

Perhaps. I'm leaning that way....yes.

 

"Maybe she has grown out of them slightly and finds life with you frustrating and 'confined' having to adhere to a set of your 'rules' and ideals. Maybe she is now asking why ? , is this what life is about "

 

(AND)

 

"In your opening post you do seem to go to greate lengths to highlight the house, money etc, and stress that you are trying to provide. Then you ask what you need to do for your wife?"

 

You have a valid point. And that's why I've made an intentional decision to provide her with MORE freedom with her own money directly deposited into her own account.

 

"How about give it all up ? How about go to her and ask her what she wants, how about putting her before your belief in god ?"

 

Because in OUR faith, God is always first. We come last. I've always been last. Maybe I will always be last in her life. Either way, I've made a covenant with My God.

 

"Is your wife worth more than your dogma, your beliefs?"

 

My God should be that center point. I see it, and know it. His patience with me out weighs my wife's....from where I sit.

 

"My point I suppose is you say that your faith has never waivered, well maybe when you say that "you made a covenant before god", maybe it should, Wasn't the covenant with your wife more than god ?"

 

Our covenant should've been between Her, God, and I. She constantly brings up, and reminds others that our Pastor never had her recite her vows....

 

I was hoping to change that on our 25th....if there is one...

 

And hey Wuggle, I never liked you either. I loved you.

[Moose]

In my wife's defense....after talking with her tonight at our "knee to knee you to me meeting"...

 

She sees things getting worse. Everybody knows I like to drink beer. Everybody knows that I like to smoke as well.

 

If you didn't....now you know.

 

Mind you, I have 3-4 beers an evening and smoke about a 1/2 a pack a day. So its not like I'm a falling over drunk, stoned, not able to function junkie with no job or future.

 

I am who I am, and will always be who I am. I'm not a drunkard, or dope head that thinks about how I'm going to get my next fix.

 

I am an alcoholic, and I know I shouldn't be drinking at all. I just don't see anything wrong with what I do in my daily routine to keep the wheels turning to keep my sanity.

 

I am wrong...aren't I?

 

Or is she using the same card for the last 24 years????

 

So confused! She knew who and what I am BEFORE she married me....aaarrrrggghhhh!!!

Edited December 27, 2011 by Moose

[wuggle]

Our covenant should've been between Her, God, and I. She constantly brings up, and reminds others that our Pastor never had her recite her vows....

 

This confuses me and makes me think I may be wrong (not the first time).

 

I had a picture in my head of a woman living with a deeply religous (but therefore inflexible), committed man, and adhering to that lifestyle as it suited her, it might have been a 'comfortable' way to raise kids (one of the main reasons we're all here). But that now that the kids are growing up, she is questioning everything, her place as a parent, her own unique place in the universe etc. I pictured her feeling confined and frustrated by a 'fixed' set of beliefs and dogmas whilst questioning everything.

 

I pictured myself in that position and found it stifling. In my world beliefs and dogmas are horrible, crushing things that stifle growth and creativity.

 

But, if she really is still commited to a belief in god, looks like I'm wrong. Is she ?

 

Where does she see herself in 'his' world now. Now that the kids are growing up, she\you are getting older.

 

All I can add is that, from my POV, the deal is between you and her. You agreed to love her and grow etc.

 

Maybe she is growing one way and you are not prepared to grow the same way.

 

I don't believe in god but if I did I'm sure he would want us all to think and grow

 

Whilst typing this I have just read your latest comment, again, IMO No. You are not who or what you are, we are all changing, growing, flexing all the time. What you are now, need not be what you will be tomorrow, or the next day. You drink when you choose, you aregue when you choose, you change when you choose. That's one of the points of life, change, grow.

 

Sometimes people grow apart, sometimes they grow together.

 

Do you still want the same things ?

 

ps. neither of you is the same person you were 24 years ago, you have both changed completely !!

Edited December 27, 2011 by wuggle

[Moose]

But, if she really is still commited to a belief in god, looks like I'm wrong. Is she ? Enough to where she reads her bible every morning without fail.

 

Where does she see herself in 'his' world now. Now that the kids are growing up, she\you are getting older. Good question. One that I don't have an answer for.

 

Do you still want the same things ? Obviously not. I want to feel respected in my home, to be able to have a beer or 2or 3 or how many I feel like without guilt. She wants me to stop all of a sudden. Mind you, I used to drink a case a day. I'll NEVER go back to that. It was distructive, unhealthy and costly.

 

ps. neither of you is the same person you were 24 years ago, you have both changed completely !!

 

I agree! It got so bad last night that I slept on an air matress in my office. I didn't get much sleep, and I feel like a stranger in my own home. As soon as we had our lil' meeting I left it at, "I'm not changing my ways anymore than I already have so get over it"...she quickly started bonding with the kids. I can already tell they look at me differently since they went off to bed without giving me my evening, "lovins"....

[wuggle]

As soon as we had our lil' meeting I left it at, "I'm not changing my ways anymore than I already have so get over it"...she quickly started bonding with the kids.

 

I think this is the reason why I prefixed my first post here with the comments Art described as 'rude'. This 'fixed' attitude that you seem to have, the idea that everything must be on your terms and the complete inflexibility must be difficult to live with.

 

Look at it this way, if she isn't changing the way she feels about her religion, then it looks to me like she is changing the way she thinks about her relationship with the world and her relationship with you. If you stick to your inflexible ways, what is going to happen ? She may well leave, then you will be on your own.

 

Change may very well be inevitable. To simply stick by your 'rules' or way of doing things and putting your fingers in your ears and saying "i'm right...la la la" is a nonsense.

 

If you still love your wife then be prepared to accept that things may need to change, especially now that the kids are growing up etc, you don't know everything. Instead of saying "I'm not going to change" why not try "O.K, tell me what it is you would like to change and we'll see if we can".

 

Inflexible things always break. Flexible ones keep growing (albeit at strange angles some times).

 

Bend, don't break !!

[Moose]

And what about her Wuggle? She doesn't "flex", never has.

 

I feel that I have been for the past 24 years going from a case a day of drinking to nothing, to being very moderate with my drinking.

 

I've always said it takes 100% from each person to make a marriage work.

 

Why am I always the one to change?

 

Love is suppose to be unconditional, and keeping track of one's mistakes is a huge no-no. So why is she allowed to reach into the gunny sack of mistakes and throw them in my face???!!!

[TaraMaiden]

And what about her Wuggle? She doesn't "flex", never has.

So...you knew this about her, before, too....

 

I feel that I have been for the past 24 years going from a case a day of drinking to nothing, to being very moderate with my drinking.

what was the trigger that sent you back to drinking...?

I've always said it takes 100% from each person to make a marriage work.

so if one of you is not giving 100% - then it's not working. And if it's her.... what does that tell you about what she wants?

 

Why am I always the one to change?

Like Wuggle said, everybody changes, nothing and nobody stays the same....trouble seems to be that attempts to moderate and modify yourselves is neither equilateral, or mutually beneficial....

 

Love is suppose to be unconditional, and keeping track of one's mistakes is a huge no-no. So why is she allowed to reach into the gunny sack of mistakes and throw them in my face???!!!

 

Er.... because you let her?

Have you fired anything back at her, with her mistakes?

 

Is your love for her, unconditional?

And do you actually like/respect one another?

[Moose]

"So...you knew this about her, before, too...."

 

Sure, and I've accepted this when we married. Now I don't think I do.

 

"what was the trigger that sent you back to drinking...?"

 

No trigger. There's nothing wrong with it as long as I don't get drunk. In ALL things....moderation.

 

"so if one of you is not giving 100% - then it's not working. And if it's her.... what does that tell you about what she wants?"

 

I'm not sure....what are you driving at?

 

"Like Wuggle said, everybody changes, nothing and nobody stays the same....trouble seems to be that attempts to moderate and modify yourselves is neither equilateral, or mutually beneficial...."

 

Then would fair assumption be that patience is key here?

 

"Er.... because you let her?

Have you fired anything back at her, with her mistakes?"

 

No. I don't keep track, never have. And I don't think I should.

 

"Is your love for her, unconditional?"

 

I'd lay down my life for her....

 

"And do you actually like/respect one another?"

 

I like and respect her. I can't answer for Blondie but I can tell you that I feel there is no respect....

[Moose]

So this morning, she posted on FB, "Robot Boy" by Linkin Park.

 

She was online so I messaged her, "nice honey"

 

Her reply, "what?"

 

My reply, "Robot Boy"

 

Her reply, "I just like the song and I have some friends going thru some stuff, didnt mean anything by it if you are thinking its about us"

 

My reply, "ok...."

 

Then I looked at her, "friends"....she has just as many single male friends as she does married female friends. One without his shirt on....I think I'm on to something...

 

Her reply, "sorry"

 

My reply, "for what? really?"

 

Her reply, "I didnt know I was gonna offend you, thats all"

 

My reply, "babe...I don't know what to say, the first thing that came to my mind was, "that just goes to show how you "don't" think about me"....but i don't want to pick a fight...."

Edited December 28, 2011 by Moose
Had to add a line

[TaraMaiden]

"So...you knew this about her, before, too...."

 

Sure, and I've accepted this when we married. Now I don't think I do.

 

so there we have it - you're reaching the end of your tether.... and her stasis is becoming unacceptable. It's natural that you'd want some kind of mirror feedback. i would say you are entitled to it, as a right....

 

"so if one of you is not giving 100% - then it's not working. And if it's her.... what does that tell you about what she wants?"

I'm not sure....what are you driving at?

 

I'm driving at the fact that in order for this to work, you both need to be committed to making this work, 100%. She clearly doesn't want to give that much, if anything, at all. So if the contribution is unequal - you cannot make up that shortfall, and do the work of 2 people....

She wants this to be over, I think, and she wants you to be the one to end the process.

If she wanted to be the one to end it - she would have done. But she wants you to take the rap and be the bad guy....

 

"Like Wuggle said, everybody changes, nothing and nobody stays the same....trouble seems to be that attempts to moderate and modify yourselves is neither equilateral, or mutually beneficial...."

 

Then would fair assumption be that patience is key here?

 

No, on the contrary. I think the time for patience, is over.

I think it's time to stop dancing around and confront the issue with her.

"Is this over, yes or no?"

(and insist she answer, yes, or no. If she says no, then what is she going to do about it, from her side, given all the things you've been doing? How is she going to step up to the plate and take responsibility?)

 

"Have you fired anything back at her, with her mistakes?"

 

No. I don't keep track, never have. And I don't think I should.

 

i completely disagree. If someone keeps messing up, wouldn't you show them how they're messing up?

Why would you not tell her how things have been affecting you?

Why do you think you have to keep taking it, but not giving some of it back?

Some folks need a bit of a cold bucket of water at times, you know....

 

"And do you actually like/respect one another?"

 

I like and respect her. I can't answer for Blondie but I can tell you that I feel there is no respect....

 

I've said it before, and I will say it again:

The relationship tripod.

 

Trust

Respect

Communication.

 

If any one of these three is missing - and one partner seems reluctant or resistant to remedying this missing factor - then the relationship is in trouble.

A tripod cannot stand on 2 legs.

Edited December 28, 2011 by TaraMaiden

[Mme. Chaucer]

If you are a drinking alcoholic - even if it's just "maintenance" drinking and you're not drunk - I PROMISE you that this has been taking a great toll on the potential for a successful marriage the entire 24 years.

 

Furthermore, even if you quit drinking entirely, I believe with all my heart (as a "recovering" person myself) that there is a lot that you will be needing to deal with that's been covered by your alcoholism for all these years. Just quitting and dealing with the absence of it (called "white knuckling" by some) is not making you more able to be "present" in your relationship.

 

A person who thinks it's okay to marry a daily drinker does have the right to be worn down and sick of it after decades. People are in states of flux always.

 

I don't know you or your history; I've never read a post from you before this one. I am not taking your wife's side. Sitting on fb all day does not make her look like a very sympathetic character. Anyway, I just get you here, and I believe that you are not present in your marriage in many ways due to your practice of alcoholism. All you can do is something about yourself, and once you have your own side of the street very well in order, you can look at others.

 

What does your religion have to say about your attachment to substances?

[Moose]

What does your religion have to say about your attachment to substances?

In everything, moderation.

 

It's not what enters into a man that defiles him, rather it is what comes from the heart.

 

I'm leaning towards she is having an EA with someone on FB. She's always on there, always texting....someone and I don't have access to her accounts.

 

What else could it be? Why all of the distance all of a sudden? I think TaraMaiden is right. She wants it over, but she doesn't want it to be her fault....