24 years of Marriage....done??!!

[2sunny]

Since she's not participating in this M in a loving way - what is it you "think you have?" it's an illusion.

 

IF she's spending all her time and energy focused on areas that are "outside the M" that shows you (her actions) where her priorities are.

 

Since her priority isn't the M - what do you have?

 

Start gathering evidence. She's focused on something - find out what (who) it is.

 

Evidence never lies.

 

 

 

She can work - she chooses not to.

She can get connected to you and the M - she chooses not to.

She can act lovingly - she chooses not to.

 

You hardly have a M or partnership. One person gives and the other takes... That's not a M - that's using. You are allowed to say nope - not doing it this way anymore. You want more? I'm not giving more. Go get that "more" yourself! Go EARN money! Go provide for yourself!

 

She's a taker... Now she's getting greedy. Say NO!

 

And don't drink. That will make everything worse.

[TaraMaiden]

I.....

What does your religion have to say about your attachment to substances?

 

In everything, moderation....

 

erm.....not sure that's strictly accurate, Moose....

 

God does not lead us into evil; He delivers us from it. He does not teach us to practice evil in moderation. Jesus did not make, use, approve, commend, or tell us to use intoxicating wine.

 

The Bible says alcoholic drink is evil. It is not just the amount one drinks that makes drinking a sin. God condemns the drink itself. (Prov 20:1 KJV) Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

 

...And more from '75 Bible References on drinking Alcohol'

[Moose]

Thanks TaraMaiden.

 

I'll not drink anymore. No problem there. Done it before and when she tried to throw it in my face I asked her, "when was the last time you saw me drink?" She couldn't answer.

 

I couldn't either because I was dry for a long time, but my point was, she didn't even take notice....but whatever....I'll take that advice!

[TaraMaiden]

The sad thing is, we all seem to be pointing out to you that from where we stand, it's a no-brainer, and this thing is breathing its last.

Which is a tragedy, but one you can - and will - survive.

 

the gutsiest thing is to look in the damn mirror and admit it.

 

It's not a failure.

It's not admitting defeat.

It's understanding that things happen this way, and there's often not a damned thing we can do about it.

so she's hanging on and drawing it out, to make you the fall guy and let others believe you're the one who's to blame?

 

Ok, Well, damnit then, do it.

 

Call her bluff.

 

Tell her you'll file, and you can both call it quits - but she badmouths you - just once - just the once - to anyone - you will give back as good as you get, and then some.

 

If this is going to end, then the least you can offer one another is the dignity of discretion and privacy.

you will keep your mouth shut - just as you always have - and respect her as your wife and mother of your children.

you would be grateful if she would at least afford you the same courtesy.

and that goes for badmouthing with the kids, too.

one thing i can honestly say about my break-up with my ex - he had plenty to say about me to others - i refused to succumb to the same level of behaviour and never once, ever, did i badmouth him to anyone, especially my children..... of that at least, I can be proud.

[Moose]

No, on the contrary. I think the time for patience, is over.

I think it's time to stop dancing around and confront the issue with her.

"Is this over, yes or no?"

(and insist she answer, yes, or no. If she says no, then what is she going to do about it, from her side, given all the things you've been doing? How is she going to step up to the plate and take responsibility?)

This got me thinking about last night. My back hurt and I wasn't looking forward to sleeping on the air mattress again. She asked me before she went to bed what I wanted to do, sleep in our bed or what? I asked her what she wanted.

 

She wouldn't give me a definitive answer. It didn't matter to her one way or the other. Her words were something to the effect, "I don't want to make you uncomfortable"....I kinda got flush in the face and told her, "Let your yes be yes and your no be no!"

 

Long story short, we slept in the same bed last night, but she kept waking me up because she moans, (erotically) in her sleep. I looked that up and it's called "sexnomia".....but it does leave me wondering....yet again...

[2sunny]

He isn't saying he's leaving.

 

He's just willing to live with his "wife" and allow her to use him for his money, house and cars - while he works, sleeps on the air mattress and be ignored by his "wife" and kids because "he should" provide for them.

 

Meanwhile "wifey" gets to socialize all day on "fake relationships" and drive the kids for a few hours.

 

That's not what I call a M.

 

Tell her to work, make money, provide for the household, and juggle schedules and obligations like real people do.

 

Find out exactly how she's spending her time. Finding out what's really going on will help you decide about your future.

[2sunny]

key logger time for her computer.

[TaraMaiden]

well. I would kinda hope that there's a subtle difference between "where do you want to sleep tonight?" and "is this marriage over?"......

 

In the world of Sales, we have a sales technique:

"Ask the Closing Question - then shut up."

 

One sales rep asked a prospective client his closing question, then shut up - and waited nearly 20 minutes for the guy to speak.....

 

They both knew - 'he who speaks first, weakens his position'...

 

So ask her outright:

 

"Is this over - yes, or no?"

 

Then - shut up.

if she prevaricates, or fluctuates, ask the same question, again.

 

If she comes back on the attack - "Why am I the one who has to decide this?!"

 

tell her because, in spite of all the efforts you've been making to meet her in the middle, she seems to be the one giving up on it, retreating into a shell of non-communication, and you feel she has no respect for you whatsoever, so at least show some now, and answer the damn question - 'Is this over - yes or no?'

 

then shut up.

 

again.

[Moose]

He isn't saying he's leaving.

 

He's just willing to live with his "wife" and allow her to use him for his money, house and cars - while he works, sleeps on the air mattress and be ignored by his "wife" and kids because "he should" provide for them.

 

Meanwhile "wifey" gets to socialize all day on "fake relationships" and drive the kids for a few hours.

 

That's not what I call a M.

 

Tell her to work, make money, provide for the household, and juggle schedules and obligations like real people do.

 

Find out exactly how she's spending her time. Finding out what's really going on will help you decide about your future.

I can tell you already what she spends her time on. First thing in the morning she reads her bible. WHEN she's not on FB she does laundry, and she says she cleans although we differ on what the definition of, "clean" is...the rest of her time is on FB or texting with IPhone, or taking a nap.

 

How can a Key Log her computer when I don't know that password?

[whichwayisup]

Moosey, I would just lay it all out on the line for her.

 

"I'm not happy, it seems you certainly aren't happy.. We are not a 'married' couple like we used to be. Either we both get ourselves into counselling, together and apart (marriage counselling) or it's time to separate and see how life is without one another. All I know is, whatever we're doing now isn't working. We both are at fault for this."

[Moose]

I forgot to say something that may clear a few things up as well. I just paid the house and property off. It's still in my brother's company's name and this bothers her to no end.

 

The vehicles are owned by me only with her on there as TOD. Same thing. It bothers her, to which I can't really blame her.

 

I think she'd like to see everything in both names before dumping me, and that's why she's doing this, "dance"....

[TaraMaiden]

tough luck. she can't have her cake and eat it.

There are just some things she's going to have to suck up.

 

What - "first of all, let's make sure I can have a share of everything that's just in your name, then we'll call it quits"....?

 

Yeah, fine, sure.....

 

oh puh-leeese....

[2sunny]

Key logger will give you her passwords.

 

Stop ASSUMING you know what she's doing - you don't!

 

Get all phone records - ask the phone company for everything! Look through her phone. Do it in front of her! When there's nothing to hide - people hide nothing. She's your W - she shouldnt have a problem with this IF she's honest.

 

Anyone - at any time - can look through my phone - I don't have anything to hide. There's no password protect on any of my electronics.

[wuggle]

I forgot to say something that may clear a few things up as well. I just paid the house and property off. It's still in my brother's company's name and this bothers her to no end.

 

The vehicles are owned by me only with her on there as TOD. Same thing. It bothers her, to which I can't really blame her.

 

I think she'd like to see everything in both names before dumping me, and that's why she's doing this, "dance"....

 

Think I'm going to have to disagree with Tara (sorry ). If you've been married for 24 years , and she has raised your kids etc then I think she has every right to be REALLY upset that both the house and everything else are in your name. I think that level of control would annoy most people, probably enough to make them leave, TBH I'm not sure most people would have put up with that situation for that long.

 

I would get her name on the deeds to both house and car then ask the question, is it over or not. It makes no difference in the end, if you split a lawyer will just make sure she gets half anyway (after taking their cut). Why not just do it the nicer way.

 

She is entitled.

[TaraMaiden]

don't be sorry, you're right. I actually meant that if that's the only reason she's behaving this way, it's pretty mercenary.... I didn't word it at all well....But I agree something should be done.... and as you say Wuggle, in a Divorce petition, in some cases it doesn't matter whose name is on the paper - it's down the middle.....

[Moose]

I have no intentions in us parting with her being empty handed....unless of course I can prove she's been unfaithful.

 

And don't worry, my kids will be well taken care of, my side of the family smells of money.

 

I looked up all her, "Male" friends on facebook. AND I AM SHOCKED!!!

 

Out of 33 men, 24 are single, 1 is divorced, 2 of the 24 doesn't have a shirt on, and remember she posted that video for, "A friend or some friends going through stuff"....

 

I plan on asking her specifically who she's talking about tonight....

 

The key logger thing is a great idea, but I can't login to her computer without her password. I'll ask how comfortable she'd be if she gave it to me.

 

IMO, 24 single men as, "friends" is 24 too many! I don't care if they went to High School with her or not. (not many have).

[Art_Critic]

Then you don't actually own the house, your brother's company owns it.

 

Actually.. if they don't pay rent then it would be shown to have the value of marital property if a judge believes it was being hidden from a marital status..

They have been married a lifetime and she is due what is rightfully hers...

 

I would guess that he did it for other reasons than to hide assets from her more likely to protect it from a lawsuit.

[Art_Critic]

Moose.. I'm glad you are going to give up the drink.. make sure you do it for you and not for her.. it will sting less and stick longer..

 

I hope you both can work thru this..

[Fabian Montenegro]

I have no intentions in us parting with her being empty handed....unless of course I can prove she's been unfaithful.

 

And don't worry, my kids will be well taken care of, my side of the family smells of money.

 

I looked up all her, "Male" friends on facebook. AND I AM SHOCKED!!!

 

Out of 33 men, 24 are single, 1 is divorced, 2 of the 24 doesn't have a shirt on, and remember she posted that video for, "A friend or some friends going through stuff"....

 

I plan on asking her specifically who she's talking about tonight....

 

The key logger thing is a great idea, but I can't login to her computer without her password. I'll ask how comfortable she'd be if she gave it to me.

 

IMO, 24 single men as, "friends" is 24 too many! I don't care if they went to High School with her or not. (not many have).

 

In my humble opinion, when it gets to the point where you have to play private detective, it's already over.

 

Why people will torture themselves over this stuff, I'll never know.

[2sunny]

The court decides what she's entitled to if they divorce.

 

You will pay her less if she's earning some money.

 

Since there's no valid reason for her not to earn some - you may as well spell it out for her. Find out from an atty how much she will get IF you D.

 

Give her a budget in the meantime and place your money in a separate account she can't touch.

 

Let her start being responsible for her money you allot to her.

 

Get the key logger on her computer... You need to find out what has so much of her attention that she needs access to computer time constantly. And look at her phone after she's asleep or showering.

 

Find out what she's hiding... Then you'll know what you're really dealing with...

[Moose]

So...it's been a while and I've still been dry. But it continues. We finally decided to go ahead with the divorce. Then...ONE day later she sends me an email asking me if this is what I really wanted.

 

I responded that I never wanted it, that she's the one that kept bringing it up. She said that she's willing to do whatever it takes to save the marriage. So I asked her if she'd be willing to go to counceling with me.

 

She did! The first meeting all we got out of her was that she really didn't want to be there.

 

The second meeting blew up in my face. My wife was asked what she wanted to see changed in me, she immediately brought up my drinking.

 

My councelor called me an alcoholic and ripped me a new one.....

 

I didn't even try to defend myself. I kept my soberity under wraps. I can't believe my wife hasn't even noticed! But that's ok....

 

I was given what I call an ultimatum. The counceler told me, "Think about this next week before our next meeting. It's either the alcohol, or your marriage".

 

Well, I called the councelor the next day and reamed her for throwing me under the bus and confessed that I've been dry for months.

 

She apologized and wanted to warn me ahead of time but couldn't, that she was going to ream me so that my wife could see that no issue is taboo and hopefully she can develope a relationship with her.

 

We're going back tomorrow evening, and I've thought a lot about this. (Chosing alcohol or marriage). My thoughts are, I'm not going to accept an ultimatum. Period.

 

If I can quit at the drop of a hat and stay dry for this long without my wife even noticing....then I chose alcohol if they insist on an answer......(not that I would jump off the wagon....just sayin')

 

Your thoughts?

[Art_Critic]

If I can quit at the drop of a hat and stay dry for this long without my wife even noticing....then I chose alcohol if they insist on an answer......(not that I would jump off the wagon....just sayin')

 

Your thoughts?

 

Spoken like a true alcoholic who didn't quit for himself..

 

Moose.. all I have to say is I hope your desire to stop drinking stays put and I wish you well in MC....

 

and props for the continued sobriety...

[CarrieT]

I didn't even try to defend myself. I kept my soberity under wraps. I can't believe my wife hasn't even noticed! But that's ok....

 

Why didn't you bring up your sobriety? I don't understand that -- and why call the counselor on the carpet the following day? Why not then?

 

Personally, I think you need a new counselor if you are still wanting to continue on the marriage.

 

The counselor was wrong for reaming you that way, but I still can't figure out why you didn't bring up your sobriety in that meeting.

[Moose]

Why didn't you bring up your sobriety? I don't understand that -- and why call the counselor on the carpet the following day? Why not then?

 

Personally, I think you need a new counselor if you are still wanting to continue on the marriage.

 

The counselor was wrong for reaming you that way, but I still can't figure out why you didn't bring up your sobriety in that meeting.

Because, my wife would've instantly brought up the past. She would've said, "Yeah, but how long is THAT going to last" yada...yada...

[soserious1]

So...it's been a while and I've still been dry. But it continues. We finally decided to go ahead with the divorce. Then...ONE day later she sends me an email asking me if this is what I really wanted.

 

I responded that I never wanted it, that she's the one that kept bringing it up. She said that she's willing to do whatever it takes to save the marriage. So I asked her if she'd be willing to go to counceling with me.

 

She did! The first meeting all we got out of her was that she really didn't want to be there.

 

The second meeting blew up in my face. My wife was asked what she wanted to see changed in me, she immediately brought up my drinking.

 

My councelor called me an alcoholic and ripped me a new one.....

 

I didn't even try to defend myself. I kept my soberity under wraps. I can't believe my wife hasn't even noticed! But that's ok....

 

I was given what I call an ultimatum. The counceler told me, "Think about this next week before our next meeting. It's either the alcohol, or your marriage".

 

Well, I called the councelor the next day and reamed her for throwing me under the bus and confessed that I've been dry for months.

 

She apologized and wanted to warn me ahead of time but couldn't, that she was going to ream me so that my wife could see that no issue is taboo and hopefully she can develope a relationship with her.

 

We're going back tomorrow evening, and I've thought a lot about this. (Chosing alcohol or marriage). My thoughts are, I'm not going to accept an ultimatum. Period.

 

If I can quit at the drop of a hat and stay dry for this long without my wife even noticing....then I chose alcohol if they insist on an answer......(not that I would jump off the wagon....just sayin')

 

Your thoughts?

 

Well, she's got the answer that she is asking for, you choose Alcohol

 

Best of luck to you both going forward.