24 years of Marriage....done??!!

[Moose]

Well, she's got the answer that she is asking for, you choose Alcohol

 

Best of luck to you both going forward.

More like, "Neither" if this is going to be an ultimatum....

 

Look, the way I see it, she knew me before we got married, stayed while I was drinking, (a case a day) getting in trouble with the law....etc.

 

Now that I've quit yet again, and she hasn't noticed...what's going to be next?

[soserious1]

More like, "Neither" if this is going to be an ultimatum....

 

Look, the way I see it, she knew me before we got married, stayed while I was drinking, (a case a day) getting in trouble with the law....etc.

 

Now that I've quit yet again, and she hasn't noticed...what's going to be next?

 

Look, If she's decided she can no longer live with your on the wagon, off the wagon behaviors, you've got a couple choices, you can either make a firm commitment to living your life totally sober one day at a time or you can choose the alcohol.

[jwi71]

Because, my wife would've instantly brought up the past. She would've said, "Yeah, but how long is THAT going to last" yada...yada...

 

Something to consider.

Part of MC/IC is to change established patterns and behaviors.

Next time, instead of assuming what your W's response will be, speak up and afford her the opportunity to take it and bring up the past. And when. I say assume I dont mean you are taking some haphazard guess but rather not giving her the opportunity to chose her reply to your input.

 

Learn to communicate. It has to begin somewhere.

 

It's not easy but you CAN do this. You CAN heal your M.

 

Don't let your fears hold you back.

 

And give it time. Months. Do the homework even if she doesn't at first. Lead the way to recovery. You are giving her the choice: she can choose to follow your lead or not. And in time, her actions will give you her true answer.

[whichwayisup]

Why did your wife change her mind about divorce?

 

She makes you jump through hoops, yet she does absolutely nothing to make life better at home. No effort, no care (fact that she hasn't noticed you're not drinking just shows how unattentive she is and detached is she from you), and she's so wrapped up in her little facebook world, not working and enjoying her life as it is. Seems she wants a roommate to pay the bills, do stuff around the house, but isn't willing to make any effort or changes to better herself or make efforts to help fix the marriage..She puts it all on you. SO you decide divorce (again) and (again) SHE NOW wants to work on things, yet throws you under the bus, makes you look bad in the counsellors eyes..She the good guy - Done nothing wrong.. And you're the bad guy who messes up all the time. W..T..F.

[Moose]

Why did your wife change her mind about divorce?

 

She told me that as a Christian she's suppose to do anything and everything to keep the marriage together. It's like something clicked in her mind, I honestly think that her dad pointed it out to her as a reminder.

 

In her defense, (I don't know why I'm defending her yet again but...) she did have an interview at Wal-Mart last night for a full time job working 10pm - 7am.

 

Which in my mind is wonderful, she'll finally be a productive member of society, get out of the house and if this marriage really does go south....she can afford to live on her own.

 

The councelor did tell me that I was thrown under the bus only to show my wife that nothing is taboo to talk about, and she will eventually point out what my wife is doing wrong herself, and it's worse than my drinking.

 

Tonight is our next meeting and if the opportunity presents itself, I will bring up the fact that I've been dry for months and see what kind of reaction we get from the wife.

[Art_Critic]

I will bring up the fact that I've been dry for months and see what kind of reaction we get from the wife.

 

Moose.. At this time I wanted to point out the difference between dry and sober.

 

Dry is an alcoholic that is no longer drinking and has yet to deal with why they drank and fix the behavior problems that drinking has created or even has a clue to the damage they created with their drinking.

 

Sober is an alcoholic that is no longer drinking and has dealt with or is in the process of dealing with why they drank and the damage they have created.

They are also in the day to day process of fixing their behavior that was created by their drinking...

 

Sober is where you want to be.. not just dry...

While being months without alcohol is nothing to sneeze about, fixing the damage that your drinking caused as well as fixing and removing the alcoholic behavior is more along the lines of where the remedy will be.

 

So... be careful in thinking that just quitting drinking will fix your wife..

Your wife is going to want the damage you created while drinking to be mended and she will want your behavior to also be in line with someone who is sober.

 

Just a few pennies....

 

and.. Props for your continued sobriety...

[Moose]

Dry is an alcoholic that is no longer drinking and has yet to deal with why they drank and fix the behavior problems that drinking has created or even has a clue to the damage they created with their drinking.

 

Sober is an alcoholic that is no longer drinking and has dealt with or is in the process of dealing with why they drank and the damage they have created.

They are also in the day to day process of fixing their behavior that was created by their drinking...

Thanks AC. And Sober really is my goal. I say I'm "dry" because of what you just pointed out.

 

My councelor and I had this discussion already, however...getting the marriage under control takes priority at this point.

 

THEN I can deal with the underlining issues that caused my alcoholism in the first place with my councelors guidance, and if my wife decides she'll have enough patience, she'll be by my side along with the councelor.

 

There are things my wife will have to do as well to help me deal with it, whether or not she'll be onboard is a different story...

[whichwayisup]

She told me that as a Christian she's suppose to do anything and everything to keep the marriage together. It's like something clicked in her mind, I honestly think that her dad pointed it out to her as a reminder.

But this means absolutely NOTHING if she can't own her part in the demise of the marriage and how she isn't making ANY effort to reconnect with you, compromise and work on herself (minus the job interview).. She has to stop putting all the problems and issues in the marriage on you. She seems to have this superior attitude, and expects you to jump through hoops while she gets to do whatever she pleases. She has to be willing to bend, compromise and meet you half way. So far, from what you've said, she's not done that.

[Moose]

But this means absolutely NOTHING if she can't own her part in the demise of the marriage and how she isn't making ANY effort to reconnect with you, compromise and work on herself (minus the job interview).. She has to stop putting all the problems and issues in the marriage on you. She seems to have this superior attitude, and expects you to jump through hoops while she gets to do whatever she pleases. She has to be willing to bend, compromise and meet you half way. So far, from what you've said, she's not done that.

I agree. I was even thinking just a moment ago....with the differences in the way we were raised we were brought up on total opposite polars.

 

Me in an abusive home, dad left when I was 4, 3 step dads, one that beat the hell out of me every chance he got and her in the Christian home where arguing was taboo and affection was not displayed....we both married our total opposites and have ignored that for 24 years.

 

So...without her meeting me half way, there really is no point in this marriage....is that stinkin' thinkin' or am I making sense?

[Moose]

Ok, so the meeting went like this.....Councelor: "Did you think about what I said last week?"

 

I told her yes, of course...And I want to make it clear that I won't do ultimatums..

 

The councelor says, so...you choose alcohol over the marriage. I said, I didn't say that....where did you hear me saying that? She got all pissy at me again saying that I'm fighting with her because I want to drink and have my marriage too...

 

THEN I told her that I haven't had a drink for at least a couple of months. My wife's eyes got HUGE! So the councelor asked my wife..."Is this true?"

 

My wife just sat there for a minute and said, "I don't know". So I rolled my eyes and just sat there...

 

Long story short, the councelor, AND my wife don't believe me. It came back to whether I'm chosing alcohol or my marriage and again I told her that I'm not one who believes in ultimatums. There has to be compromise. If you want me to choose, it's neither.

 

My wife started the water works and the councleor asked her how she felt about what I just said. "Crushed"....then "Fine YOU start the divorce then, I'm tired of this!

 

So, the councelor tried to re-word that it wasn't an ultimatum, it's a choice and that I have a decision to make. Door number 1 is the path to hell, (is if I'm going to lose my salvation if I choose drinking) or Door number 2 a path to a happy marriage and being the man God wants me to be. AND I'm the one who has to make the first move....

 

So again....I brought up my soberity and she flat out told me she doesn't believe me because of the way I'm acting! I just told her that I'm standing my ground....

 

It went back and forth and back and forth the councelor was getting frustrated with me because every arrow she was shooting at me bounced off like a rubber stick....

 

To the point...I'm back at square one. I have to give an answer as to whether it's alcohol or my marriage.

 

Next week, I feel like I should just tell them both that I'm done. I'm tired of not being heard, not being believed and being ganged up on....

 

Of course, it's going to come down to that I chose alcohol over the marriage and that's what my wife is going to make my kids believe, her family believe and all of our so called friends believe....

 

I'm screwed either way.

[Art_Critic]

Moose.. you could put yourself in a meeting and start working the steps..the first being the toughest to wrap your mind around with all the denial built in.....

 

Admitting that you are powerless over Alcohol and your life has become unmanageable...

 

It seems to be that you are in a battle with her and the therapist over the difference between dry and sober.. maybe it's time to work on becoming serene and sober.

If meetings are not your bag you could also go into treatment..

 

Me, I chose AA.. it was laid right in my lap by the GF that I was living with at the time and I had already been going to meetings for a year before I took the first step so once I finally saw the light the rest was all gravy.

I needed it.. it helped me save my life..

 

Keep it up...

[Moose]

I appreciate your input AC.

 

It's not about the alcohol. It's about an ultimatum, or putting me in a position to make a choice without compromise.

 

I'm just not going to respond to it. I refuse to, about ANYTHING.

 

Let's put it this way....the councelor says, "So, if your wife comes up to you and says I'm going to have an affair and you're just going to have to live with it, what would you say?"

 

I told her, "Fine by me, I'll go have an affair too"

 

That blew them both away...what they were expecting me to say is that if she does have an affair, the marriage is over....(ulitmatum)

 

Does that make more sense to you? Ultimatums don't work with me. I'm staying dry, and working towards soberity regardless...whether or not they believe me is their problem. Not mine.

[GorillaTheater]

Hey Moose. I understand what you're saying about ultimatums, but looking over your words it seems to me that the real choice you're making is between your marriage and your pride. I'm not sure there's necessarily a wrong choice, but I do think you need to ask yourself whether your pride is worth your marriage. You're making your stand, but is that stand worth your marriage?

[Moose]

Hey Moose. I understand what you're saying about ultimatums, but looking over your words it seems to me that the real choice you're making is between your marriage and your pride. I'm not sure there's necessarily a wrong choice, but I do think you need to ask yourself whether your pride is worth your marriage. You're making your stand, but is that stand worth your marriage?

I suppose you're right. I'm willing to swallow my pride for the sake of our marriage. And I suppose, (given past behaviour) it's going to take a long time for my wife to see that I'm not going to drink anymore regardless of how she treats me.

 

What I foresee though is that we'll wind up the way it's always been. She'll be happy that she has gotten her way and I might as well face the fact that I'll never have sex again.....

 

In a way, the deciding factor for this marriage falls in the hands of my wife. I've done all that I can do. If she doesn't make any changes in say a year or so, then I'll call it done...

[Moose]

That doesn't sound like a very mature response, I'm sorry to say. I suspect they were not "blown away" for the reasons you might be thinking.

Regardless, I wasn't falling into the councelors "trap".

That sounds suspiciously like an ultimatim to me.

Actually, I would call it lack of compromise. If I remain sober for the marriage's sake, (which in all honesty isn't the reason why I'm chosing sobriety) AND take steps to communicate with her to the best of my ability, AND do this, AND do that....and I get nothing in return in a year or so....then I've done all I can do....

[whichwayisup]

THEN I told her that I haven't had a drink for at least a couple of months. My wife's eyes got HUGE! So the councelor asked my wife..."Is this true?"

 

My wife just sat there for a minute and said, "I don't know". So I rolled my eyes and just sat there...

 

Why did you just roll your eyes? I would've taken that opportunity to BLAST your wife and let her know that she obviously doesn't pay attention to you one bit to notice that you haven't had a drink in a couple months. How unattentive she is to your efforts and changes.

[whichwayisup]

Why is the counsellor picking sides? Isn't she supposed to be neutral?

 

Ignore my other post, I see I didn't finish reading before responding...

 

Unbelievable that neither of them believed you were sober for 2 months.

[Moose]

Have you conceded the possibility that this "trap" is merely one to get you to think about the idea that perhaps your thinking is wrong and that an ultimatim might be a good thing in the context of a serious and unresolved issue that is clearly driving a wedge between you and your wife?

I have a challenge for you...google "When is an ultimatum good for a relationship" you'll find that typically it makes matters worse.

You said a couple of posts ago that you are willing to swallow your pride for the sake of the marriage. Wouldn't this be a good place to start demonstrating that?

I agree. We left the meeting with me having to decide either alcohol or my marriage.

 

I plan on going back and re-stating that I haven't drank a drop in two/three months, so what do you two, (Counselor and wife) think my answer is?

 

After they answer maybe we can get to the heart of the problem, not just on my end, but my wife's end as well...

[whichwayisup]

I have a challenge for you...google "When is an ultimatum good for a relationship" you'll find that typically it makes matters worse.I agree. We left the meeting with me having to decide either alcohol or my marriage.

 

I plan on going back and re-stating that I haven't drank a drop in two/three months, so what do you two, (Counselor and wife) think my answer is?

 

After they answer maybe we can get to the heart of the problem, not just on my end, but my wife's end as well...

 

Your wife HAS to address her own issues. Her (NON)contribution to the marriage and she has put the cards on the table, admit her mistakes..Things she can and should do better (effort wise).. This cannot ALL be put on you.

 

Offer to take a lie detector test if they doubt your 2 month sobriety. Seriously.

[GorillaTheater]

Of course, it would be just as reasonable to pose your own ultimatum: "A marriage where my wife is actively working towards a satisfying (for both of you) sexual relationship, or no marriage at all". In fact, I think you might be making your stand on the wrong piece of ground.

[Moose]

Why is the counsellor picking sides? Isn't she supposed to be neutral?

 

Ignore my other post, I see I didn't finish reading before responding...

 

Unbelievable that neither of them believed you were sober for 2 months.

You would think she's suppose to be neutral. Her excuse to me was, (she called me last week) I want your wife to see that no issue is taboo to talk about and I'm trying to build a relationship with your wife, THEN I'll get into what she's been doing wrong in the marriage....I'm not so sure I believe her after last night's meeting....

[whichwayisup]

You would think she's suppose to be neutral. Her excuse to me was, (she called me last week) I want your wife to see that no issue is taboo to talk about and I'm trying to build a relationship with your wife, THEN I'll get into what she's been doing wrong in the marriage....I'm not so sure I believe her after last night's meeting....

 

If this continues, then start looking for another marriage counsellor. It seems this woman is causing MORE strife rather than being calm and talking about both sides of this situation. She shouldn't be 'openly' choosing sides and making it obvious, so you feel ganged upon.

[Moose]

Of course, it would be just as reasonable to pose your own ultimatum: "A marriage where my wife is actively working towards a satisfying (for both of you) sexual relationship, or no marriage at all". In fact, I think you might be making your stand on the wrong piece of ground.

Are you making a suggestion? Or do you think it's fair that I make all the changes and expect nothing in return?

[2sunny]

You know - you are not your best when you're drinking.

 

You will be a better man if you stay away from drinking.

 

Your marriage and all of life's problems will take care of themselves when you do your step work with a sponsor in the AA program.

 

Why are you delaying what can help you? You need clarity and let go of the anger - it is all found in your step work. Get busy doing that today!

[Moose]

If this continues, then start looking for another marriage counsellor. It seems this woman is causing MORE strife rather than being calm and talking about both sides of this situation. She shouldn't be 'openly' choosing sides and making it obvious, so you feel ganged upon.

I agree! I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt for now...if next weeks meeting is all about me and what I've done wrong just to "build" a relationship with my wife I may have to have a heart to heart with this councelor and "fire" her...we'll see....